Canadian Ladies 2017-18 season news & updates

[Rock2]

I wouldn't confuse KO with Chan. They have different training styles and preparation methods. Ravi tells people she needs a long runway to get herself ready for the peak part of the season.That's why she did two summer comps and a B before the GP. Sure she has stuff yet to add but it's fairly minor. She needs to compete and repeat to lock her confidence in for the big events. It's her way.

I remember last year thinking that after a few early-season wobbly shorts that gosh she's just not making mistakes in the short now. She has probably peaked and will be worn out at worlds with nowhere further to go. What did she do? Skated her best short of the season in her last event, which I didn't think was possible.

Chan is a very different animal. He has 1-2 good skates in him a year so he manages his energy along the way. For KO, every time she gets to skate, and every time she skates well will be a good thing. She'll be just fine.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don't fall for it....and always thought it was a bit corny from the time I started to see it appear in Russian programs. Pantomiming accompanied by some look of shock or surprise or whatever. Rubbish, in my books, but that's just me

Sorry, but i am reading "ignorance" of legitimate acclaimed theatrical methods..... In 40+ years living in North America, i noticed that most North Americans never learned about the great pantomime Marcel Marceau, forgot the expressiveness of silent film stars like Theda Bara and Mary Pickford, and probably never saw any performances by Comedie Francaise....

Marcel Marceau
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-31-2015/1vCJQN.gif
https://i.skyrock.net/5038/89195038/pics/3201187905_1_2_vKRWjVWb.gif

Theda Bara https://68.media.tumblr.com/1d04348d4aa4fbc44e213931bbe533f6/tumblr_n87e7bAtcb1qiwrzoo1_500.gif

Mary Pickford https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/15/04/f31504e869115c483ec104ab151d5ba1.gif

Com-Fran http://www.slate.fr/sites/default/files/photos/unnamed.gif

 

[kwanfan1818]

And these legitimate and acclaimed acting methods are inappropriate and look stilted for a wide number of dance or other movement-based arts/sports, unless they are doing pieces that reference mime or silent film.

 

[Alilou]

Yeah, @Tinami Amori, but none of these skaters are Marceau, or Theda Bara. The only one I was not familiar with was Com-Fran.
These people were all masters of their art. They've spent a lifetime developing it. Skaters have probably never mimed a thing in their life until a choreographer told them to, and generally it just comes off as hokey.
Here's one program where it works. Medvedeva, not so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpZu3HDjpE&t=3s

 

[MacMadame]

Medvedeva, not so much.

In your opinion, of course.

 

[Alilou]

In your opinion, of course.

of course

ETA: and in @Tinami Amori's opinion

 

[Rock2]

Sorry, but i am reading "ignorance" of legitimate acclaimed theatrical methods..... In 40+ years living in North America, i noticed that most North Americans never learned about the great pantomime Marcel Marceau....

Wow. Lots to unpack here. Let me keep it simple.

1. There are about 60 million bajillion terrabytes of data out there, information to learn over a lifetime. Most of us don't even scratch the surface of all there is to know, study, understand. Pantomimes certainly don't play a vital or even cursory role in North American culture or education, so it shouldn't surprise you that just about everyone you encounter has not included this list of names in their top 5 million things to learn. To date, this ignorance has been enjoyed with no ill-effect.

2. I feel fortunate that I don't have to study these greats to be of the opinion that pantomiming and overcooked facial expressions should be of limited value based on the IJS rulebook. It looks corny in figure skating although I'm sure it would get a standing ovation in a pantomime performance.

3. I plan to continue to be ignorant of the pantomime greats. Consider it my own personal form of bliss, as they say.

4. What Kwanfan said.

 

[danafan]

Sadly Kim Decelles will not be competing at all this season as she will be having surgery to repair a torn labrum. She posted an udpate (in French) on her instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZhtl65AmMZ/?taken-by=kdecelles

 

[Tinami Amori]

And these legitimate and acclaimed acting methods are inappropriate and look stilted for a wide number of dance or other movement-based arts/sports, unless they are doing pieces that reference mime or silent film.

These people were all masters of their art. They've spent a lifetime developing it. Skaters have probably never mimed a thing in their life until a choreographer told them to, and generally it just comes off as hokey.
Here's one program where it works. Medvedeva, not so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpZu3HDjpE&t=3s

well, Osmond is not exactly a ballerina either in any respect, yet she is portraying one.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Neither was Mila Kunis or Natalie Portman. It's a character from a contemporary movie. You either find her convincing or not.

 

[Alilou]

well, Osmond is not exactly a ballerina either in any respect, yet she is portraying one.

It's not the same @Tinami Amori and you know it. You are way too knowledgeable for that. Portraying and miming are two different things.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

well, Osmond is not exactly a ballerina either in any respect, yet she is portraying one.

Osmond is special, she is Canadian and they can do no wrong. Honestly, with her butt sticking out they it died during the skating, Osmond should be skating to duck tails rather than Black Swan.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Sorry, but i am reading "ignorance" of legitimate acclaimed theatrical methods..... In 40+ years living in North America, i noticed that most North Americans never learned about the great pantomime Marcel Marceau, forgot the expressiveness of silent film stars like Theda Bara and Mary Pickford, and probably never saw any performances by Comedie Francaise....

Marcel Marceau
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-31-2015/1vCJQN.gif
https://i.skyrock.net/5038/89195038/pics/3201187905_1_2_vKRWjVWb.gif

Theda Bara https://68.media.tumblr.com/1d04348d4aa4fbc44e213931bbe533f6/tumblr_n87e7bAtcb1qiwrzoo1_500.gif

Mary Pickford https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/15/04/f31504e869115c483ec104ab151d5ba1.gif

Com-Fran http://www.slate.fr/sites/default/files/photos/unnamed.gif

There you are again, slamming people that have a different opinion than yours, trying to convince them every time by any mean. You can disagree, but no need to try to show how much more intelligent ypu are. Marceau is a great mime. I wouldn't mind miming if it was the whole program them as in the video shown below. But pantomiming every two seconds faked emotions of sorrow, death, backstabbing in a skating program? Not my cup of tea. You can say whatever you want, you like it, I get it, I don't like it, that's it.

 

[dramagrrl]

Osmond is special, she is Canadian and they can do no wrong.

Comma splice, but absolutely true otherwise. Thanks for reminding everyone!

 

[barbarafan]

well, Osmond is not exactly a ballerina either in any respect, yet she is portraying one.

True...but then neither is Zagitova

 

[Tinami Amori]

It's not the same @Tinami Amori and you know it. You are way too knowledgeable for that. Portraying and miming are two different things.

Neoooo... ..... "portraying a character/acting like a ballerina" and "miming" are simply different forms of acting/performance. Osmond is not a ballerina, and Medvedeva is not a mime. They are both acting.

We can argue if it is good acting, that's another subject. My original response was in regard to comments, now and earlier, why Russians are so into "pantomime" and if it is appropriate in skating. To "mime" is just as appropriate as to "act like a ballerina".

True...but then neither is Zagitova

But we're not talking about Zagitova..... ... apparently earlier few people felt too insecure about Osmond's prospects to win, so in the "Canadian ladies" topic, a normal and healthy discussion about "what Osmond can do to raise her skating level" turned into putting down Medvedeva.....

 

[Zazy]

Neoooo... ..... "portraying a character/acting like a ballerina" and "miming" are simply different forms of acting/performance. Osmond is not a ballerina, and Medvedeva is not a mime. They are both acting.

I'm not sure I agree. Ballet is a dance, miming is not. When a skater takes on a balletic role, they are changing their way of dancing on ice to include aspects of ballet. With mime, skaters stop dancing and ignore the music so they can act out some storyline. You can have a miming performance with music in the background but, unlike dance, you can't really mime to the music.

 

[kwanfan1818]

With mime, skaters stop dancing and ignore the music so they can act out some storyline. You can have a miming performance with music in the background but, unlike dance, you can't really mime to the music.

Until Vaganova obliterated almost all of what was left of mime in the Imperial classics, mime was integrated with the music. In the original score of "Giselle," Adam wrote the words that would be mimed directly into the score, literally and figuratively. Mime had a very strict and limited vocabulary, though, and was performed in bursts, maybe a six-sentence back-and-forth between Giselle and Hilarion, for example -- narrative ballet is full of "I love you," "Get away from me!" "You'll be sorry" scenes -- or "Von Rothbart stole my mother, and that lake was made from her tears." It was hardly the sophisticated and intricate story telling that Marcel Marceau would do: in ballet mime, everyone knew the memes. And that was only after ballet was separated as a stand-alone: before that ballet, opera, and theater were more like variety shows around themes, with pieces moved in and out.

While mime is generally done in place or with some walking back and forth, there are places like "La Bayadere," where it's integrated into the dances themselves, which isn't surprising, because some forms of Indian classical dance have tons of mime and story-telling within the dance, and Nikiya is a temple dancer.

Since skating is primarily based in curves, edges, and sweep, mime in skating tends to be in place, with stops and starts, and I find it disruptive and generally saccharine, whether Medvedeva does it by skipping around or answering the phone -- which is completely separate from making dramatic faces, which is simply (bad, IMO) acting -- or whether Zoueva spoils a wonderful FD for V/M with that inane self-referential "Oh, we're kids!" "Oh, we won the Olympics and are taking our bows!" mime.

Doing a credible portrayal of the acting in "Black Swan" isn't a very high bar, IMO.

 

[danafan]

Still waiting for that great triple triple short program from a Canadian lady on the JGP....Here was Emily Bausback from today. She landed the triple lutz but got negative GOE after an extreme telegraph. And she fell on her triple toe triple toe attempt. Oh well there's still the long program...


https://youtu.be/aJg0DoT4kSg

 

[Tinami Amori]

Until Vaganova obliterated almost all of what was left of mime in the Imperial classics, mime was integrated with the music.

..... now there are lectures and classes on "Mime in Ballet"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UtQAoLVu2A

...... and a tutorial on Giselle that you've mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfs882PTSHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SCWC6DWO60

... Vaganova's School now has "acting exams" in addition to technical....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhaXcF9TiIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9976gkJ_3s

..... you got to see this one ..... "act out a Jew"....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmLdcUFkHA

 

[Rock2]

Still waiting for that great triple triple short program from a Canadian lady on the JGP....Here was Emily Bausback from today. She landed the triple lutz but got negative GOE after an extreme telegraph. And she fell on her triple toe triple toe attempt. Oh well there's still the long program...


https://youtu.be/aJg0DoT4kSg

Some noticeable improvements to her skating as Ted pointed out. Her body is more stretched out than it has been and her general line is improving.

On the jumps, shame on the second toe. She didn't pick exactly behind her but more to the side, throwing her upper body outside the circle. With the pick in the right place she could have had it.
Lutz has improved. She used to rock from inside to outside edge a bunch of times in prep for the takeoff. She got rid of that, making the jump much more aesthetic.

 

[Rock2]

Osmond is special, she is Canadian and they can do no wrong. Honestly, with her butt sticking out ....

I can understand why some feel it looks that way, especially if you're not accustomed to watching full figured women in senior ladies who have experienced and embraced puberty, have an athletic lower body and a straight back with a slight concave arch at the base of it. The resulting booty pop can certainly be a bit unsettling if you're not used to seeing that sort of thing in your particular territory.

 

[Zazy]

Thanks, that was interesting.

Still, to me "ballet mime" is a different beast, and very different to what the skaters do on the ice.
It's a form of dance in itself (to the point where I completely forgot about it in this discussion - because what the skaters do has nothing to do with dance). In skating, you have to separate the dancing from the miming, you can't convincingly do both at the same time. And it ends up feeling kind of lazy to me, instead of getting their message across by their movement, they literally spell it out (by movement, yes, but you know what I mean...)

 

[Marco]

Perhaps some ballet moves or positions are not meant to be fully achieved on skates or while skating. Oksana Baiul's back pumping and some of her spins do not scream ballet, and Katherine Healy skated slower and shallower than Caroline Zhang.

I am no expert but think Kaetlyn does a good job balancing the balletic movements with actual skating skills / speed. I actually really like the combination spin in which she ends in a balletic kind of altitude position. And don't forget, it is Black Swan, not Swan Lake, and is supposed to be more modern.

 

[vesperholly]

Still waiting for that great triple triple short program from a Canadian lady on the JGP....Here was Emily Bausback from today. She landed the triple lutz but got negative GOE after an extreme telegraph. And she fell on her triple toe triple toe attempt. Oh well there's still the long program...


https://youtu.be/aJg0DoT4kSg

Great job fixing it if she had trouble before. That was a nice BO edge and her technique was excellent on the entrance - picking directly in line with the edge. The 3-3 looked like she just tried to overpower the second jump and waited too long on the pick. Otherwise it was promising with good distance on the first and good height on the second.

She's powerful - I'd like to see her skate to some fast-paced music.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Thanks, that was interesting.

Still, to me "ballet mime" is a different beast, and very different to what the skaters do on the ice.
It's a form of dance in itself (to the point where I completely forgot about it in this discussion - because what the skaters do has nothing to do with dance). In skating, you have to separate the dancing from the miming, you can't convincingly do both at the same time. And it ends up feeling kind of lazy to me, instead of getting their message across by their movement, they literally spell it out (by movement, yes, but you know what I mean...)

Ok, I am sort of starting to understand what you’re trying to say, or at least I think I am….. I think you’re saying that using “face” for pantomime segment in a skating routine has nothing to do with physical movements and skills required in figure skating or ballet, so in other words, using facial expressions and arms is a “gimmick”, right?

Well, I think you raise a valid question, is pantomime in figure skating a “gimmick” which does not reflect SKATING abilities. My answer is “yes it is a gimmick”…… But! In figure skating in particular, there are already several acceptable artistic gimmicks which have nothing to do with athletic abilities:

- Costumes. Costumes which reflect a story or a character. Costumes with elements to enhance a view of a particular movement (flowing fabrique, geometric forms to create a visual effect during spins, gloves as “masques” D/S Free Dance “Carnival”). And last but not least: Conversion costumes which are becoming more and more popular in competitive routines, which are pretty much show nothing more but the skater’s and his/her designer’s creativity in fashion and in sawing technique..

- Music….. no need to explain..

- “Acting the character”… every Carmen dies in agony, Juliette dies in love, Swan dies with an eye roll, La Strada has an “O” face, Chaplin sulks and winks, Adams Family makes silly grins, Big Spender and Chicago always has some “tits and ass”….

- Posing and non-skating stationary choreography…

So, I don’t really see why just few second of “facial expression” accompanied by some arm/body movements are so out of line.

Gracie Gold hired a mime coach in 2013….. to enhance her presentation.
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2013/09/12/gracie-gold-mime-classes-figure-skating/

Back in 2003 Fumie often used few elements of pantomime in several of her routines….. here is one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy4vf_eX8Rw

Medvedeva did not start “pantomiming”... Lipnitskaya’s Olympic Year SP starts with a pantomime..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cux6jt7V_0

Kovtun is hitching a ride......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PywCx4Z1kr4

Osmond’s “Piaf” SP starts with a pantomime and has few elements in the middle of the routine….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UTaaMqtUEQ

I don’t see much difference between pantomiming about “flirting in a Parisian café” and Medvedeva’s “philosophical searches”…… .. none of it is “skating”.

 

[mag]

Great job fixing it if she had trouble before. That was a nice BO edge and her technique was excellent on the entrance - picking directly in line with the edge. The 3-3 looked like she just tried to overpower the second jump and waited too long on the pick. Otherwise it was promising with good distance on the first and good height on the second.

She's powerful - I'd like to see her skate to some fast-paced music.

From what I have heard, Emily is an extremely hard worker. The 3/3 is also apparently quite consistent in practice. I think the music is terrible and does nothing to show her off to an advantage. Between this and Hip Hip Chin Chin last season I think her team needs to look in another direction for choreography. I would love to see what Lance Vipond could do for her.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I can understand why some feel it looks that way, especially if you're not accustomed to watching full figured women in senior ladies who have experienced and embraced puberty, have an athletic lower body and a straight back with a slight concave arch at the base of it. The resulting booty pop can certainly be a bit unsettling if you're not used to seeing that sort of thing in your particular territory.

This full figured argument is an excuse because she had these before she became full figured. there are many other full figured women skating as well, they don't seem to have a problem. whole bunch of excuses are made for Canadian skaters, but others are picked for Rippon jumps, hand over the end because their skaters can't do it, . Osmond has qualities but at the moment some Canadian skating fans are going out of their way to pick on Medvedeva's program since there is an outside chance of a gold medal.

 

[skatingguy]

Osmond has qualities but at the moment some Canadian skating fans are going out of their way to pick on Medvedeva's program since there is an outside chance of a gold medal.

As if skating fans have any impact on the outcome of the Olympics.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

As if skating fans have any impact on the outcome of the Olympics.

Hopefully not, but contest hate thread is scary, Canadian and Korean fans can be equally mad at times.