Canadian Ice Dance 2016-17 season news & updates

[aftershocks]

Honestly, I am crushed about Orford/Hill not continuing. They just had "it." They really, really did. I can't help but think what if. Like others I feel like if they'd been given a good run on the international circuit this year they really might've had a shot at the third Olympic spot.

The situation in Canada is not all that dissimilar to that in the USA right now. Major differences:
1. Davis/White have shown no indication as yet that they plan to return or make a run at the 2018 Olympics
2. USFSA seems to (be able to?) support more senior teams traveling to Challenger series/Senior B competitions
3. More of the up and coming US teams have not aged out of juniors (including veterans like McNamara/Carpenter where many fans are impatient for them to move up)
4. USFSA has no rule about a team who wins junior nationals having to move up to senior nationals. This is a big deal for affected teams, who must contemplate two different SDs.
5. There has been more movement at the top with the US teams, with Chock/Bates and the Shibutanis duking it out for US #1. Maybe that keeps things feeling more overall competitive for everyone? And makes everyone feel like they have a chance?

^^ Yes, the Shibs finally winning U.S. Nationals was very inspiring and deserved, even though Chock/Bates still seem to be favorites of TPTB. It was also wonderful to see Cannuscio/McManus rewarded for their excellent performances/ hard work. It was sad to see Hawayek/Baker struggle last season but they are young, and all teams will have their growing pains.

It comes back to limited opportunities, so again it was very nice to see C/M rewarded. I can understand why McNamara/Carpenter are giving Juniors another go since they are still eligible. M/C could be winning seniors this coming season for a slew of federations! And that's one of the confounding conundrums of this sport, not easily solved. The problem is that TPTB don't seem to even be acknowledging these competitive structure/ skater development problems, much less making any effort to address and try to resolve.

 

[Sylvia]

For those with Kiss & Cry access, the 2016 Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships practice groups list was posted today and, from it, I've compiled the entries by level here:http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...-international-july-27-30.98893/#post-4829304
Competition dates are July 27-30.

Canadian teams are copied out below (I assume the Senior/Junior international entry list is not yet published):

SENIOR
Alexa Linden / Addison Voldeng S12
Vanessa Chartrand / Alexander Seidel (new)
Carolane Soucisse / Shane Firus (new)
Aya Takai / Dominic Barthe (new)
Aurelija Ippolito (GER last season) / Malcolm Jones (CAN & DEN in the past) - not sure what country they will represent

JUNIOR
Marjorie Lajoie / Zachary Lagha J2
Kaitlyn Chubb / Alex Gunther (new)
Moriah Chiang / Édouard Tremblay (new)

 

[Jammers]

Thank you for information. Hope they will return.
As for Canadian ice dance future. After Korea GP and PI will fight for number one in Canada, so all other teams will not have any chance in future and this is sad.
I think OH have better skells, then GP and i think SC made big mistake to let them retire. But who knows, maybe they made it on personal reason.

Not sure how you figure after 2018 other teams wouldn't have a chance against P/I at least. P/O beat P/I at Canadian Nationals and P/I have not shown that they can take their skating to a higher level and in fact have stagnated and are very beatable. They are not ever going to be champions unless something drastic happens in the next couple years.

 

[VGThuy]

They are not ever going to be champions unless something drastic happens in the next couple years.

Like more Canadian teams retiring?

 

[Moustaffask8r]

The problem isn't a lack of talented junior teams. The problem, as @NorthernDancers so clearly explained, that Skate Canada is not providing financial support and competitive opportunities for the up-and-coming teams. It's no good having talented junior teams if they don't get the help they need to develop into contenders at the senior levels.

Do you think it's any different in other country....

 

[chantilly]

Yeah I think funding is an issue for Skate Canada.
They're not getting the same money they used to get.
Either federally or with private support.
It has a lot to do with the waning popularity of skating in
North America.
So they only have so much to give.
But perhaps they need to sacrifice lower ranked senior teams and give it to Junior skaters etc.
It sucks for seniors in 4-6 place, but if the funding isn't there what can they do?

 

[aftershocks]

Well, what about seek out wisdom from visionary leaders in other sports? Get serious about resolving problems and trying to bring the sport of figure skating into the twenty-first century. Understand the global and economic changes that exist for the sport and for society in general, plus the special challenges that each federation faces in their country.

Is it at all preposterous to discuss/ consider revenue sharing among federations (as has worked for some big-time sports)? I know sports are individual, each with different sets of problems. However, figure skating IMO needs to find unique ways to implement well thought out changes. This calls for research, strategic thinking, cooperation among federations and flexibility, with keeping the best interest of skaters and long term growth of the sport in mind.

Or will the sport be able to continue on as is indefinitely with basic competition structure unchanged? Figure skating will likely always be a niche sport, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to win back former viewers and expand interest among casual viewers and die-hard general sports fans in Europe and North America. TPTB should learn how to be more strategic promotion-wise both pre and post an Olympic year.

 

[Dobre]

^^ Interesting @Dobre. Where do you think the lovely Orford/Hill might have been placed/ judged at Worlds based on their last season's showings up through Skate Canada? How do you assess O/H, P/O, and P/I at 2016 Skate Canada?

Do you mean Canadian Nationals?

Orford & Hill didn't compete at Skate Canada (International). They competed at the Autumn Classic. And then a domestic competition (Skate Canada Challenge?) And then Nationals.

P&O and P&I both competed at Skate Canada. I thought both were scored fairly overall. SC was a very deep field.


I didn't watch Canadian Nationals. I am a bad, bad ice dance fan. OK, I was really just too busy that week watching U.S. Nationals. I would have loved to watch Canadian Nationals on demand later, but there was no way to do that here. The videos on FSU are all posted with results. For me, the excitement is spoiled then. (Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the video links. It's just not the way I like to watch a competition. I like to watch it in the order the event occurred and see it unfold as it happened, without knowing the results. But this is the summer. I'm missing skating. I think I'll go back and watch the videos now!)

I've never seen Orford & Hill live. I saw their performance at the Autumn Classic and loved it. I have always liked Asher. I liked Ralph & Hill as juniors and always enjoyed watching them. And I liked Orford & Williams the season they did the High Society program. I've said before that I believe there is such a thing as a kindred ice dance partner, and I feel like Asher & Nicole found each other late. I'm totally bummed that they retired so quickly. (Premature splits are the bane of ice dance! And apparently premature retirements are too). They were very new together this season, and I think they would likely have been in over their heads at Worlds this soon in the partnership. I would very much have liked to see O&H go to a Challenger event--preferably two--and skate against the likes of Hawayek & Baker, Agafanova & Ucar, Muramoto & Reed, Lorenz & Polizoakis, etc. They never did this so we never had the chance to see a comparison with teams of that quality. And, really, after a second season together, I think they would likely have been a different team technically anyway. They did defeat Mansour & Ceska at the Autumn Classic. Mansour & Ceska finished right behind Paradis & Ouellette at Worlds. Make of that what you will. For O&H, it wasn't about how they placed this season. It should have been about their potential for the future.

For P&O, this was a breakthrough season. They should be proud of what they accomplished. And go out and use the experience at 4CC's & Worlds to push them to the next level.

For P&I, it was a bad year. What else can you say? It could have been worse. (They could be Monko & Khaliavin). The best thing that happened to P&I all season was P&O not qualifying for the free dance. Paul & Islam certainly had the potential to place higher than 23rd. Would they have placed higher than last season, though? I think they'd have been in the fight for 12th-16th place.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Oh yep, I meant Canadian Nationals.

Here @Dobre is a Youtube video of the entire final flight for ice dance 2016 Canadian Nationals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0grz3tQ1j40

 

[overedge]

Do you think it's any different in other country....

I honestly don't know. But V/M are coming back to compete in Canada, so does it matter what happens in other countries?

ETA: But I would seriously hope that other national federations are not in as bad financial shape as Skate Canada seems to be.

 

[Zazy]

I saw them skate live twice last year, at Skate Canada & Worlds. P&O need more speed & attack.

P/O are excellent performers but they need a lot of work on basic skating and were lucky to get that 3rd worlds spot. Internationally, they failed to get the minimum TES for two years and needed generous scores at 4CCs to finally get it - not making the FS at worlds was always a likely outcome.

I honestly don't know. But V/M are coming back to compete in Canada, so does it matter what happens in other countries?

Only if you think the one and only reason to these retirements are V/M's comeback, that there are no other factors involved. Someone upthread who seems to be in the know said O/H's retirement was mainly due to not feeling supported by Skate Canada with only the one senior B last year. Well, if you look at USFS, they send a lot more skaters to Senior Bs. If SC looks at this as some freak occurrence caused by VM they'll miss the very real lessons to be learned.

 

[Dobre]

P/O are excellent performers but they need a lot of work on basic skating and were lucky to get that 3rd worlds spot. Internationally, they failed to get the minimum TES for two years and needed generous scores at 4CCs to finally get it

Well, everyone loves the minimum TES in the short dance. Muramoto & Reed didn't get it until after 4CC's. And Lorenz & Polizoakis didn't get it until Europeans. They both made the FD. Sinitsina & Katsalapov didn't get it last year, and now they're 9th in the World. I don't believe Zahorsky & Guerrero have it yet. I don't think Kim & Minov or Nazarova & Nikitin earned it once this season. The base value for the Senior pattern dance dropped this year and made it tough on all the senior teams on the bubble. Essentially, it helps to make it to the post season. Or to go to a high-scoring Senior B event. (But how to know which events those will be?) Lorenz & Polizoakis and Nazarova & Nikitin qualified for the FD at Worlds without hitting it there. It's tough.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

P/O are excellent performers but they need a lot of work on basic skating and were lucky to get that 3rd worlds spot. Internationally, they failed to get the minimum TES for two years and needed generous scores at 4CCs to finally get it - not making the FS at worlds was always a likely outcome.



Only if you think the one and only reason to these retirements are V/M's comeback, that there are no other factors involved. Someone upthread who seems to be in the know said O/H's retirement was mainly due to not feeling supported by Skate Canada with only the one senior B last year. Well, if you look at USFS, they send a lot more skaters to Senior Bs. If SC looks at this as some freak occurrence caused by VM they'll miss the very real lessons to be learned.

Totally agree. Technically not strong at all.

 

[Sylvia]

Does anyone know the status of Poulin & Servant as I don't see them listed on Quebec Summer skate.

It would be nice if these skaters with some following would announce retirements for one or both partners, the way Orford/Hill did. There's a right to privacy, but when it's over I think it's nice for fans to have some sense of conclusion and for skaters to be able to hear that they'll be missed and wished well for the future.

Statements by both Andréanne Poulin et Marc-André Servant on their FB page page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....066281670&id=294619127337403&substory_index=0

 

[skategal]

Statements by both Andréanne Poulin et Marc-André Servant on their FB page page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....066281670&id=294619127337403&substory_index=0

I really thought that they would be 'the next ones', especially in light of all the other retirements.

I will miss them. But wish them much luck in their futures.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't believe Zahorsky & Guerrero have it yet.

Zahorski/Guerreiro had one shot internationally, and they missed the SD minimum by .03.

 

[Dobre]

Zahorski/Guerreiro had one shot internationally, and they missed the SD minimum by .03.

Yes, extremely close. Also the maximum base value in the SD this season has gone up several points, which should help several teams.

 

[barbarafan]

Statements by both Andréanne Poulin et Marc-André Servant on their FB page page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....066281670&id=294619127337403&substory_index=0

How sad,,,,A great loss for Canada...not sure if both or just Marc will be coaching but they both have so much to pass on.

 

[barbarafan]

Zahorski/Guerreiro had one shot internationally, and they missed the SD minimum by .03.

That is crappy..hope they get sent quickly to other competitions where they can pick up the mins.

 

[Sylvia]

Gilles/Poirier will perform again in the "So You Think You Can Judge" ice dance exhibition on Friday, August 5, 2016 at 7 pm in Scarborough, ON

Fan cam videos of their programs:

Short Dance: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ngz2g_piper-gilles-paul-poirier-2016-2017-sd-fancam_sport

Free Dance: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nh1h9_piper-gilles-paul-poirier-2016-2017-fd-fancam_sport

 

[Debrah]

Wow! New level of maturity and greatly improved posture!

 

[sammyott]

I think this short dance has a real chance to have a similar effect that their SD had this past season at worlds!

 

[bbkenn]

I also feel that the lack of support we see in Skate Canada started with V&M when they first lost to D&W in 2012 and it ended up being a harbinger of things to come. It may be due to lack of $$$$. I don't know.

 

[JulieC]

In preparation to the JGP season, I thought it could be interesting to review our confirmed teams (rank based on the National Summer Series results)

Rank 7: Han/Lochhead (212.34)
# years of junior eligibility: 5
Best Int'l score:
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 1st novice
Confirmed for JGP Yokohama

Rank 5: Wu/Mirzakhani (237.37)
# years of junior eligibility: 1
Best Int'l score: 116.21 (LPIDI 16)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 8th Junior
Confirmed for JGP Czech

Rank 4: Stairs/Royer (237.86)
# years of junior eligibility: 4
Best Int'l score: 116.03 (JGP Austria 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 12th Junior
Confirmed for JGP Saint-Gervais

Rank 3: Fabbri/Pietrantonio (251.55)
# years of junior eligibility: 2
Best Int'l score: 126.17 (LPIDI 2016)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 2nd novice
Confirmed for JGP Mordovia

Rank 2: Whitley/Graham (252.73)
# years of junior eligibility: 3
Best Int'l score: 115.54 (JGP Riga 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: WD (injury)
Confirmed for JGP Czech

Rank 1: Lajoie/Lagha (252.82)
# years of junior eligibility: 4
Best Int'l score: 129.91(JGP Logrono 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 2nd junior
Confirmed for JGP Yokohama

Also on the substitutes lists, we have:
Taillefer/Chan and Galiyanova/Tang

Looking forward to watch all of them evolve,

 

[overedge]

In preparation to the JGP season, I thought it could be interesting to review our confirmed teams (rank based on the National Summer Series results)

Sorry, double post.

 

[Babyfireball]

Sorry, double post.

In preparation to the JGP season, I thought it could be interesting to review our confirmed teams (rank based on the National Summer Series results)

Rank 7: Han/Lochhead (212.34)
# years of junior eligibility: 5
Best Int'l score:
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 1st novice
Confirmed for JGP Yokohama

Rank 5: Wu/Mirzakhani (237.37)
# years of junior eligibility: 1
Best Int'l score: 116.21 (LPIDI 16)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 8th Junior
Confirmed for JGP Czech

Rank 4: Stairs/Royer (237.86)
# years of junior eligibility: 4
Best Int'l score: 116.03 (JGP Austria 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 12th Junior
Confirmed for JGP Saint-Gervais

Rank 3: Fabbri/Pietrantonio (251.55)
# years of junior eligibility: 2
Best Int'l score: 126.17 (LPIDI 2016)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 2nd novice
Confirmed for JGP Mordovia

Rank 2: Whitley/Graham (252.73)
# years of junior eligibility: 3
Best Int'l score: 115.54 (JGP Riga 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: WD (injury)
Confirmed for JGP Czech

Rank 1: Lajoie/Lagha (252.82)
# years of junior eligibility: 4
Best Int'l score: 129.91(JGP Logrono 2015)
Ranking at Nationals 2016: 2nd junior
Confirmed for JGP Yokohama

Also on the substitutes lists, we have:
Taillefer/Chan and Galiyanova/Tang

Looking forward to watch all of them evolve,

The ranking may change once BC summer skate results are factored in, assuming the teams included this competition as one of their two to be used for ranking. Skaters were allowed to name up to three competitions in which their top two scores would be used. Overall an interesting process

 

[Ka3sha]

Morozov about Weaver/Poje
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJxkQikDVkS/

I guess it's an official confirmation that they've moved to him

 

[levineismine]

Cross-posting from the new programs thread

PJ Kwong is posting live interviews - news snippets from High Performance Camp 2016 ( I guess we could open a thread for high performance camp like for champs camp?)
https://www.instagram.com/pjkwong/

Virtue/Moir skating their SD to Prince

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJxnMWujy1t/?taken-by=pjkwong

 

[levineismine]

Morozov about Weaver/Poje
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJxkQikDVkS/

I guess it's an official confirmation that they've moved to him

the fact that he's there at the camp should be a sign that it's not just a summer collaboration
waiting for an official statement soon
(TSL is tweeting some tidbits about what they saw when they visited Morozov weeks ago)

 

[levineismine]

No signs of Paradis/Ouellette at HPC...