Callaghan suspended over sexual abuse allegations

[Quadaxel2020]

I guess this isn’t over just yet
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/550505002

Is there an update or something? Seems like the same article to me

 

[berthesghost]

Is there an update or something? Seems like the same article to me

Yeah. I originally though it was a new article as the one I linked says “4 minutes ago” and contained new info. But looking at the original link, it’s says “updated”, so I guess she just changed the article adding info.

 

[Vagabond]

I missed that, thanks! Seems like a silly law then, especially given that statistics show more than half of teenagers have sex by age 18. All the more reason a prosecutor wouldn't enforce it. I can't imagine any person in the US thinking 18 is a reasonable age of consent for men, especially when it's 16 for women.

Why not? I think it's well known that girls mature more rapidly (emotionally and in other ways) than boys do, so I can imagine a 16-year-old girls'l being better able to handle a sexual relationship with a 20-year-old than a 16-year-old boy would.

This is not to say that I necessarily agree with the rationale, only that I can understand it.

 

[VGThuy]

Just from my research, you’d be surprised the amount of times these laws are enforced if the age difference is beyond what’s allowable by Romeo and Juliet exceptions (usually it’s four years so 22 minus 16 is beyond the four years) and if the parents of the underaged partner wants to go forward with it. Sometimes once it’s reported it’s out of everyone’s hands even if people change their minds and it gets prosecuted anyway because these types of laws are strictly liable meaning that once sex has been established as a fact not in dispute between someone over the age of the R&J exception and someone under the age of consent, there are no affirmative defenses available even if they were “in love” or the “perpetrator” didn’t know his/her real age, etc. It’s actually an easy win for prosecutors so they’ll take the case and there’s not much a juror to do even if they feel bad, they have to follow the law. Many of these cases may plea out because the “perpetrator” wants to avoid being put in a sex offender registry, etc. A plea is still considered a win because you’re getting some sort of guilty plea.

In this case, going by what USA Today reported, since in Delaware, a 16- or 17-year-old can legally consent to sex with a partner under the age of 30 and Pottenger was 22 at the time of his relationship with the skater then no laws were broken (it's a very relaxed state generous with the exceptions it seems) so a prosecutor COULD NOT bring forth any charges...unless it's true that a male could not consent until the age of 18. In that case, a law would have been broken. If that's the case then it seems nobody reported it to the police back then. Considering that it's a same-sex relationship and if DE has a law where the male age of consent is 18, I have little doubt that this would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law had it been reported even if it occurred in 2010. I wonder if the fact that this situation dealt with a 16 year-old male had something to do with this not getting reported. There's already enough stigma about being labeled a "victim" in these cases but also having one's sexuality be outed as well at that age, that brings another dimension.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

_

 

[overedge]

You all should see the comments on the TSL Facebook post when Dave shared this link. Things like at least he's not raping students or that in some states people under 16 can get married are some of the highlights!

That people are saying stupid things on the TSL Facebook page doesn't make Larry's post any less stupid.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

That people are saying stupid things on the TSL Facebook page doesn't make Larry's post any less stupid.

I know that. I'm saying that Larry's comment on here, all of the whataboutisms, and the aggresive defending of the guy rubs me the wrong way. The comments on that Facebook thread are a mess.

 

[LarrySK8]

That people are saying stupid things on the TSL Facebook page doesn't make Larry's post any less stupid.

What is stupid are comments attempting to sensationalize and attempting to troll and equate being a gay male with being a pedophile. It is a prejudice gay men have had to fight against for many years and obviously, the battle goes on.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

What is stupid are comments attempting to sensationalize and attempting to troll and equate being a gay male with being a pedophile. It is a prejudice gay men have had to fight against for many years and obviously, the battle goes on.

Do you know Pottenger personally?

 

[Vagabond]

What is stupid are comments attempting to sensationalize and attempting to troll and equate being a gay male with being a pedophile. It is a prejudice gay men have had to fight against for many years and obviously, the battle goes on.

These age-of-consent laws are designed to protect teenage boys from women as well as from men. Frankly, I would be much more concerned about a 29-year-old high school teacher having sex with one of her 16-year-old male students than with a 22-year-old skating coach having sex with one of his 16-year-old male students (even though I see both as problematic), but perhaps you don't see any problem with either situation.

 

[LarrySK8]

These age-of-consent laws are designed to protect teenage boys from women as well as from men. Frankly, I would be much more concerned about a 29-year-old high school teacher having sex with one of her 16-year-old male students than with a 22-year-old skating coach having sex with one of his 16-year-old male students (even though I see both as problematic), but perhaps you don't see any problem with either situation.

What I see as a problem is the trying to equate being a gay male with being a pedophile. It's vile, wrong, prejudicial and discriminatory to do so. The two are separate groups of individuals, and should be discussed as such.

 

[LarrySK8]

Do you know Pottenger personally?

One doesn't need to know him or any anyone to recognize homophobia and vile insinuations, alarmist nonsense and BS in the media and elsewhere.

 

[Vagabond]

What I see as a problem is the trying to equate being a gay male with being a pedophile. It's vile, wrong, prejudicial and discriminatory to do so. The two are separate groups of individuals, and should be discussed as such.

It seems to me that you are equating being a pedophile with being a gay man.

 

[mag]

Why not? I think it's well known that girls mature more rapidly (emotionally and in other ways) than boys do, so I can imagine a 16-year-old girls'l being better able to handle a sexual relationship with a 20-year-old than a 16-year-old boy would.

This is not to say that I necessarily agree with the rationale, only that I can understand it.

A bit of drift here, but I was reading an article recently that talked about the idea that girls mature more quickly. The premise of the article was that they did because of societal expectations around the behaviour of girls versus the behaviour of boys. In other words, girls are punished from an early age for behaviour which is considered accetable in grown men. If we had the same expectations of girls and boys, the maturity rate would be similar.

 

[Vagabond]

A bit of drift here, but I was reading an article recently that talked about the idea that girls mature more quickly. The premise of the article was that they did because of societal expectations around the behaviour of girls versus the behaviour of boys. In other words, girls are punished from an early age for behaviour which is considered accetable in grown men. If we had the same expectations of girls and boys, the maturity rate would be similar.

Did the author offer any evidence to support the premise?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Did the author offer any evidence to support the premise?

I heard this very often, and there are articles and research on the subject, confirming this theory.
- https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s-identify-why-girls-often-mature-faster-boys
- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sc...mature-quicker-than-boys-scientists-find.html
- https://mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men#.LEf8HfuMT

... and that's the study link: https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/25/6/1477/299218

 

[mag]

Did the author offer any evidence to support the premise?

This is the article http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/29/stop-using-excuse-boys-mature-slower-girls-bad-behaviour-7270774/

No research listed, more about challenging the unsupported notion that girls mature faster. People seem to make that assumption and others accept it without there being much research to support it. Yes, girls often go through puberty earlier, but that is not the same as being more mature. It seems to me that the premise that needs support is that girls are more mature than boys. The position that maturity is not gender based should, IMHO, be the starting point unless proven otherwise.

 

[Vagabond]

I heard this very often, and there are articles and research on the subject, confirming this theory.
- https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s-identify-why-girls-often-mature-faster-boys
- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sc...mature-quicker-than-boys-scientists-find.html
- https://mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men#.LEf8HfuMT

... and that's the study link: https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/25/6/1477/299218

Actually, Tinami, those articles tend to confirm the general assumption, not the premise that @mag mentioned.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm saying that Larry's comment on here, all of the whataboutisms, and the aggresive defending of the guy rubs me the wrong way.

Kind of like you coming on here and posting "if you knew what I knew" posts rubs me the wrong way.

Do you know Pottenger personally?

Do you?

 

[Quadaxel2020]

---

 

[overedge]

thought I would tell others that there is more to it. Maybe when this investigation is resolved or some further action is taken I can reveal more details but for now I don't feel comfortable putting myself in that position.

Yet you feel comfortable enough to pop into this thread and drop hints about how there is more going on than the story discusses. Maybe you should be contacting the investigators rather than posting here.

 

[MacMadame]

Yet you feel comfortable enough to pop into this thread and drop hints about how there is more going on than the story discusses.

And then delete any post that people question.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

*** Skating official who had sexual relationship with 16-year-old drops out of competition :
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-16-year-old-drops-out-competition/570347002/

Christopher Pottenger, the 31-year-old U.S. Figure Skating official and coach who was suspended in 2010 for “inappropriate and unethical conduct” that three people with direct knowledge of the situation say stemmed from a sexual relationship with a 16-year-old male skater, did not attend an important regional skating competition in Dallas that he was scheduled to work last weekend.

“On Friday, we were made aware Christopher Pottenger would not attend Skate Dallas,” USFS spokeswoman Barb Reichert said in an email Monday night to USA TODAY Sports.

Reichert provided no further information about Pottenger and why he wasn’t in Dallas. Pottenger declined comment through his attorney.

Considering the past year with USA Gymnastics, every time a reporter hears a story about a similar SafeSport and/or grievance case, it's probably going to end up being reported. Brennan's story has weaknesses compared to some others due to the three unnamed sources with few details about the original grievance & the party or parties who made the complaint(s). However, I can see problems that could arise from the situation besides just the age of the skater & coach & there was an outcome of discipline.

This is a transition period & not all cases were forwarded to SafeSport, so past cases like this will probably continue to be reported & some may have inconsistencies like this one (suspended by PSA but not USFSA). I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to reporters while the new processes are under development. Journalists like Brennan, Shipley, & the Indy Star reporters have regularly reported over the years about organizational shortcomings & abuses of athletes. Since I would rather see the information consistently reported than not, I tend to side with giving some leeway if they want to identify some of these older cases in addition to the new ones while everyone catches up to the current procedures.

One of the biggest issues that came out of the USA Gymnastics scandal was the cover up & complete lack of transparency & notification to participants. Anyone off the street reading the list of USFSA bannings/suspensions today would be hard pressed to identify which ones are in reference to coaching abuse & which are in reference to financial illegalities & other such things, etc. So I guess I still see a need for reporters to pass along notifications when they come across them & view it as catching up to the system that's supposed to be in place.

 

[mackiecat]

I feel bad for the chief referee. It isn't easy to replace a tech specialist at the last minute. It's a bit of a silly alarmist view. The tech specials have no contact with the skaters, only the coaches if they come and ask for feedback.

 

[Twizzler]

I feel bad for the chief referee. It isn't easy to replace a tech specialist at the last minute. It's a bit of a silly alarmist view. The tech specials have no contact with the skaters, only the coaches if they come and ask for feedback.

That is not entirely correct- members of the tech panel do interact with coaches AND skaters if critiques are given after the event. Granted it is not a one on one situation with the TS/skater so there shouldn’t be risk, but there are interactions.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

Senator 'appalled' at U.S. Figure Skating's response to coach-skater relationship:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...response-coach-skater-relationship/575654002/

 

[VGThuy]

Not to defend Pottinger or US Figure Skating, but the Senator seems to think that Pottinger was that skater's personal coach or was in a direct or indirect coach-student relationship or had some sort of position of authority over the skater and that may not be the case and the Senator seems to be equating this with the situation with US Gymnastics. Whether or not there was grooming involved, I hope USFS shows up voluntarily and clear it up one way or the other because right now there seems to just be a lot of speculation by most of us and some hinting by one or two of us who claim to know the situation first or second-hand. I like that the Senator is being proactive and taking a stand, but I just want it to be based on real information rather than jumping the gun and trumpeting.

 

[berthesghost]

^ if you say so. Personally, I do not take much comfort in the “yeah, it was a teacher sleeping with a student at the same school, but he wasn’t his teacher so it’s ok” attitude. I mean what, because the kid couldn’t get an A, it’s ok for teachers at a school to scan the student body for potential dates? Yuk

 

[VGThuy]

I just want it to be clear that I do not condone people in positions of authority like teachers dating those who they have clear authority over, such as students.

You do bring up a good point that if this was a high school then there is no way a school board would get away with a comment like what the USFS gave if a young 22-year-old teacher started dating a student, who was not a student in his class. I think I failed to see the rink culture as such as I know there is less of a strict line because the skating world is so small and there's a huge social aspect of it (because oftentimes all of their friends and connections are from the skating world) and there's been so many cases of legal-aged students dating coaching assistants and so on. I also think the closeness of age between the two probably made me not shirk so much as another situation would have even though it's 6 years and that's actually quite an age difference when somebody is 16.

However, the USFS should probably adopt a policy that its member rinks have to follow that any romantic relationship between any member of staff and any student regardless of age should be prohibited and anyone failing to comply would lose membership, just to nip this situation in the bud. Having these sort of clear lines makes it easier for everyone. I know some others will think that's too harsh of a rule if a student was Savchenko's age, but there are other considerations as well like conflict-of-interest, etc. Of course, it begs the question of whether the USFS should be in a position to dictate such things, but if not them, then who else? Just allowing individuals to make their own choices would fail to recognize that there aren't unlimited rinks and coaches around AND the USFS has a responsibility to ensure the health of their members and their sport and should work to minimize anything that may undermine that.

 

[barbarafan]

Not to defend Pottinger or US Figure Skating, but the Senator seems to think that Pottinger was that skater's personal coach or was in a direct or indirect coach-student relationship or had some sort of position of authority over the skater and that may not be the case and the Senator seems to be equating this with the situation with US Gymnastics. Whether or not there was grooming involved, I hope USFS shows up voluntarily and clear it up one way or the other because right now there seems to just be a lot of speculation by most of us and some hinting by one or two of us who claim to know the situation first or second-hand. I like that the Senator is being proactive and taking a stand, but I just want it to be based on real information rather than jumping the gun and trumpeting.

exactly....I think a lot of the comments come from people who are against homosexuals. Do you worry about your children with male coaches who like females. no, as they are not pedophiles. This was a long term relationship between 2 consenting males who had a difference in age of only 6 years. This was not his coach and he was in no way in charge of him or a mentor. Usually males are far more immature than females at that age but if you are gay you have a lot more shit to deal with and so you grow up much quicker. If he was his coach then I would think that he should have passed him onto another coach but he was not. If it was a situation where the young skater was not gay and there was any point unwanted advances and pressure then again it would be wrong and the USFS should have had more severe punishments. I have not seen anything to indicate this is what happened so I wonder what the motive is to destroy someone's career and name. People should be looking at their motives in making a big stink. People have different sexual orientations...That is life. If people could learn to live without recriminations we would all be happier.