Callaghan suspended over sexual abuse allegations

[VGThuy]

I really do believe that the Karyolis didn’t actually know just because they are so self-centered that they wouldn’t have been paying attention to what Nassar was doing. They didn’t care about the safety or Well-being of their gymnasts outside of fitness for competition. I still think they are sueable for negligence relating to Nassar and other things based on their own more intentional actions.

 

[WillyElliot]

I agree with VIETgrl. Also, I don't know exactly what exactly Nassar actually did. Was he putting his fingers inside these gymnasts' vaginas under the guise of some bizarre muscle massage? It never appeared to me that he was having sex with these girls, but was touching them there explaining that it helps with their pelvic muscles. That's how I can only understand why someone like McKayla Maroney said she was molested hundreds of times by him. And the Karolyis have always been results-driven, they don't want to hear complaints or about any weakness from their athletes. The Karolyis are responsible (if not legally then morally) for creating an environment where all these gymnasts were molested and too afraid to speak up.

 

[Sylvia]

Christine Brennan's latest column: Official's sexual relationship with 16-year-old skater draws scrutiny

 

[DimaToe]

I really do believe that the Karyolis didn’t actually know just because they are so self-centered that they wouldn’t have been paying attention to what Nassar was doing. They didn’t care about the safety or Well-being of their gymnasts outside of fitness for competition. I still think they are sueable for negligence relating to Nassar and other things based on their own more intentional actions.

Maybe Martha didn’t know, but when someone is so focused on controlling their athletes to get the competitive results they want, it’s very hard for me to believe the whole “Little oblivious me? How could I have known” when supposedly she knew it all and if making the best gymnasts was her objective, then of course the “watchful eyes of Martha” would be something needed to make that happen.

 

[VGThuy]

I’m sure she only knew that when the gymnasts went to Nassar, he told the Kayrolis what they wanted to hear and cleared them to continue on during the death camps. Both Marta and Bela (known collectively as Barta) seem like the type to pay attention to everything gymnastics related and controlling their diets and their will to be individuals and to question the system but not care about things like proper medical procedures or following up with the gymnasts about how their examination went...as if they’d tell Barta the truth. Marta would probably be like your job is to get them cleared to practice and compete and my job is to make them competition ready. All that other stuff someone else is handling...the old “not my job.” Apparently it wasn’t anyone’s job to protect the gymnasts for anything even the people who have it in their job descriptions.

 

[Erin]

Also, I don't know exactly what exactly Nassar actually did. Was he putting his fingers inside these gymnasts' vaginas under the guise of some bizarre muscle massage?

Essentially yes. What he did can be a real medical procedure in extremely rare circumstances but these were not those circumstances and he also did not follow proper procedures, like using gloves, having a chaperone in the room and getting consent from the patient or their parent/guardian in the case of minors. And given that the treatment was not medically necessary, it would have been wrong in any case. But since there was a medical procedure out there, it was one of the things that gave him cover the few times that he was questioned. Many of the women didn't realize that what was happening was sexual abuse until years after the fact because he was able to convince them it was medically necessary - e.g. Jamie Dantzscher didn't realize it until 2016, Maggie Nichols didn't realize until her coach overheard the conversation she had with Aly and talked to her about what Nassar was doing, Aly didn't realize until she was interviewed by the private investigator, etc. Some women who had been abused even defended him after many other women had come forward.

There are many articles out there that discuss what he did, but one example is the Indy Star article with the first public allegations from Rachael Denhollendar and a then anonymous woman who was later revealed to be Jamie Dantzscher:
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/09/12/former-usa-gymnastics-doctor-accused-abuse/89995734/

 

[overedge]

Christine Brennan's latest column: Official's sexual relationship with 16-year-old skater draws scrutiny

I'm glad this news is being reported, but I really don't like the tone of this article, e.g. the lede saying that he is soon going to be at a competition with "hundreds of young skaters". It makes it sound like any skater who attends this competition is going to be at risk from even being in the same arena as him.

The alleged behaviour was a supposedly long-term relationship with an underage skater - and please note I'm not saying that is OK either - so framing the story this way makes it sound like anyone who does this sort of thing is also likely to indiscriminately attack any underage person in their vicinity. This perpetuates the idea of abuse as "stranger danger", which it can be, but the Nassar case and others like it are showing that there may be a greater risk of abuse from people who are not strangers.

 

[hanca]

Christine Brennan's latest column: Official's sexual relationship with 16-year-old skater draws scrutiny

Hmmm, so this bloke at the age of 22 had a relationship with 16 year old whom he didn’t even coach. And then there is Morozov...

 

[genevieve]

I'm glad this news is being reported, but I really don't like the tone of this article, e.g. the lede saying that he is soon going to be at a competition with "hundreds of young skaters". It makes it sound like any skater who attends this competition is going to be at risk from even being in the same arena as him.

The alleged behaviour was a supposedly long-term relationship with an underage skater - and please note I'm not saying that is OK either - so framing the story this way makes it sound like anyone who does this sort of thing is also likely to indiscriminately attack any underage person in their vicinity.

It also sounds like the skater was never coached by Pottenger, and that in the state of Delaware, at least then, a 16-year-old could legally consent to a sexual relationship.

 

[LarrySK8]

The recent Pottinger story is not real news at all. It was a lawful, consensual relationship in the place it occurred. It was between young people. To make it seem like this is in some way any threat to anyone at this time is, frankly, sensationalistic, alarmist, etc. This poor guy, I feel bad for him. This in many ways is starting to go toooooo faaaaaaar.

 

[Vagabond]

Unfortunately, I can't open Sylvia's link. However, Delaware does have some harsh laws regarding sex with a sixteen-year-old boy.

In Delaware, the age of consent to have sex is 16 for women and 18 for men. As in most states, it does not matter if the offender was ignorant as to the victim’s actual age, or if the offender reasonably believed that the victim had reached the age of consent. If a woman is under 16 years old, or a man is under 18 years old, having sex with him or her is against the law....

Compared to some other states, the penalties for violating Delaware’s age of consent laws are very harsh. A “typical” statutory rape offense could carry a prison sentence of 10 years.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/delaware-age-of-consent-lawyers.html

Irrespective of the sex of the people involved, the morality of even consensual sex between a 22-year-old and a 16-year-old is something as to which reasonable minds can and do differ, hence the stark differences in the law between states.

 

[berthesghost]

Unfortunately, I can't open Sylvia's link. However, Delaware does have some harsh laws regarding sex with a sixteen-year-old boy.


https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/delaware-age-of-consent-lawyers.html

Irrespective of the sex of the people involved, the morality of even consensual sex between a 22-year-old and a 16-year-old is something as to which reasonable minds can and do differ, hence the stark differences in the law between states.

The hook of the brennen article is that here is someone suspended in 2010 for inappropriate and unethical behavior back in the mix working like nothing happened.

It’s rather brief and sensational so any problems with “tone” is understandable. YMMV

Also, opinions may vary about an adult having a “consensual” sexual relationship with a teenager and if it’s “inappropriate and unethical” or not, but the article linked doesn’t go into any details of the 2010 case. It just sort of puts it’s out there as a “and here’s another guy in skating not really being osticized for bad behavior” kind of way.

 

[overedge]

The hook of the brennen article is that here is someone suspended in 2010 for inappropriate and unethical behavior back in the mix working like nothing happened.

It’s rather brief and sensational so any problems with “tone” is understandable. YMMV.

If the message is indeed "here is someone with a history who is back in the sport" then there is absolutely no reason to point out that this person is soon going to be officiating at an event with hundreds of young competitors. That's irrelevant to the alleged history, and if the length of the article is an issue, the article would work just fine without that sensationalistic detail.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The recent Pottinger story is not real news at all. It was a lawful, consensual relationship in the place it occurred. It was between young people. To make it seem like this is in some way any threat to anyone at this time is, frankly, sensationalistic, alarmist, etc. This poor guy, I feel bad for him. This in many ways is starting to go toooooo faaaaaaar.

Agreed. Brennan's mud sling says volumes more about her than the intended subject. She seems like the kind of reporter who'd throw her own mom under a bus to get a byline.

 

[berthesghost]

Agreed. Brennan's mud sling says volumes more about her than the intended subject. She seems like the kind of reporter who'd throw her own mom under a bus to get a byline.

Please, larry’s post reads like a NAMBLA press release.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Laws aside, I doubt any prosecutor would choose to prosecute a case involving a long-term relationship between a 16-year-old and a 22-year-old. No reasonable jury or judge would convict.

I know of a 16-year-old in Delaware who was impregnated by a 24-year-old man, as part of a consensual relationship, and even then, nothing happened. I'm not saying that this is completely right, but I do think the limited resources in society have better things to do than to worry about these types of borderline cases.

 

[Tinami Amori]

The recent Pottinger story is not real news at all. It was a lawful, consensual relationship in the place it occurred. It was between young people. To make it seem like this is in some way any threat to anyone at this time is, frankly, sensationalistic, alarmist, etc. This poor guy, I feel bad for him. This in many ways is starting to go toooooo faaaaaaar.

Laws aside, I doubt any prosecutor would choose to prosecute a case involving a long-term relationship between a 16-year-old and a 22-year-old. No reasonable jury or judge would convict.

Exactly! if by law a 16-year old can have consensual sex, then that is all that matters. All the guessing and soap-box morality which one is more mentally mature or has an upper hand is as pointless as wondering who is more mentally mature and has an upper hand in a relationship between an 80-year old millionaire and a 30-year old gold digger, and all other possibilities in between... if the law states that a 16-year old is old enough, then be it... or change the law instead of attacking people involved. they are acting WITHIN THE LAW.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

Are any of you guys from California or know of the rink where he is currently the manager? There is much more to this story that you all are not aware of if you're not involved.

 

[Willin]

@Quadaxel2020 It sounds like you know something you're saying we don't...

I've been to the rink where he is now manager, but I don't think I've been there when he's been the manager (my last trip down was in 2015 I think) and I've only been there for competitions. All I know is that since he came synchro seems to have lost time at the rink as well, despite once being an integral part of it. But that might also be the retirement of the former skating director.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

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[overedge]

Well I don't want to expose anyone's business

This is kind of an odd statement, given that you're a new member and have made two different posts hinting that you have inside information.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

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[Quadaxel2020]

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[Vagabond]

I know of a 16-year-old in Delaware who was impregnated by a 24-year-old man, as part of a consensual relationship, and even then, nothing happened.

The age of consent for girls in Delaware is 16, so there was no violation of the law.

Please see Post #281.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

Even if people don't care for Brennan's article, the coach was suspended by PSA. They watch out for their own & usually don't suspend them unless something is there. Some important details are most likely missing.

 

[overedge]

Even if people don't care for Brennan's article, the coach was suspended by PSA. They watch out for their own & usually don't suspend them unless something is there. Some important details are most likely missing.

I'm not objecting to the information in the article - I'm objecting to the way the information was framed.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

Even if people don't care for Brennan's article, the coach was suspended by PSA. They watch out for their own & usually don't suspend them unless something is there. Some important details are most likely missing.

Does anyone know if it's normal to also get a two year probation period after suspension? Or was that an extra form of punishment?

 

[Deleted member 221]

The age of consent for girls in Delaware is 16, so there was no violation of the law.

Please see Post #281.

I missed that, thanks! Seems like a silly law then, especially given that statistics show more than half of teenagers have sex by age 18. All the more reason a prosecutor wouldn't enforce it. I can't imagine any person in the US thinking 18 is a reasonable age of consent for men, especially when it's 16 for women.

Even if people don't care for Brennan's article, the coach was suspended by PSA. They watch out for their own & usually don't suspend them unless something is there. Some important details are most likely missing.

I do think this was bad judgment, and even if there are no more details, the PSA did the right thing by temporarily suspending him. I would not send a child to a 22-year-old coach who was dating a 16-year old. Even if the law is stupid, it is against the law, and he's in a profession where he's working with children. Hopefully he learned a lesson.

 

[berthesghost]

I guess this isn’t over just yet
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/550505002

 

[Quadaxel2020]

Please, larry’s post reads like a NAMBLA press release.

You all should see the comments on the TSL Facebook post when Dave shared this link. Things like at least he's not raping students or that in some states people under 16 can get married are some of the highlights!