Britney Spears

dinakt

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An in-depth story about the Spears situation in The New Yorker:


This article makes it clearer than ever how Spears’s current situation (the conservatorship) is inseparable from her wealth. I don’t think this arrangement would exist at all if it weren’t for the money involved.
I found Ronan Farrow's piece absolutely chilling.

I'll be revealing my biases here, but Britney's handlers are steeped in Southern traditional religious patriarchal culture. I was shocked at a little snippet of the interview of her brother in NYT documentary, when he mentioned smth about "a woman's place". That explains the family dynamic in many unfortunate ways.

Quote from Farrow's article:

Jamie had become close to Lou Taylor, a business manager who shares the Spears family’s Christian faith and whose husband is a pastor at an evangelical church. Taylor later raised the possibility of putting Lindsay Lohan under a conservatorship, according to Lohan’s father...

...After the 5150, Jamie and Lou Taylor consulted lawyers about establishing a conservatorship for Spears.


I am not questioning whether Britney was spinning out of control and was in need of help. But the way it played out and was maintained- with her (mostly estranged!) father staying in complete control for so many years- that seems like a throwback to previous centuries with heads of families controlling "hysterical women"/aka women who disobey by locking them up forever... except in this case the woman is also the main provider.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Another red flag regarding the Jamie Spears and Lou Taylor connection is that Taylor was so outspoken about how she had nothing to do with pursuing any conservatorships and was simply in attendance as a listening party. These are the kinds of things people say all the time when they want to manipulate situations while denying direct participation in decision making.
(In a statement, Charles Harder, a lawyer representing Taylor, said, “At no time did Ms. Taylor ever make any effort to put anyone into a conservatorship. Not Britney Spears. Not Lindsay Lohan. Not Courtney Love.”)

(Harder, Taylor’s lawyer, said that on the calls Taylor was “more of a listener than a contributor.”)
There is also the conflict of interest between the father as the conservator and the hiring of Lou Taylor as one of her business managers. Her family seems unable to maintain professional boundaries when there are millions of dollars in fees to be made.
 

becca

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Interesting how they compare her to Lohan. My understanding is Lindsey has her life together now
 

Artistic Skaters

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They commented about them in regard to Lou Taylor because apparently she is very involved when it comes to "active listening" (or whatever they want to call it :lol: ) at meetings about young women who might possibly need conservatorships. It was reported Taylor is the one who sprang Lohan from jail and then managed her for awhile. Courtney Love did a rather incoherent ramble sometime back claiming Taylor advocated to have her placed under a conservatorship and one reason given was to gain access to Kurt Cobain's music rights.

Considering the likes of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker and others with their unethical fundraising practices, it's really no surprise when some of the extreme evangelicals branch out to pursue other rainmaking activities to generate loads of money in other areas such as the entertainment industry. If they can counsel overwrought parents as they offer suggestions for salvation for the lost young women and jump on the gravy train, so much the better. I just hope at some point, for the conservatee's sake, someone looks for secret offshore accounts once the smoke clears from all the fire and brimstone. In a lot of these situations, it's as likely as not some funny business has been going on in the name of God.
 

Jammers

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I bring up Brian Wilson because a few years agoI saw a concert with him. It was horrifying. He was disoriented and barely lucid. The other people in the band sang while he sat in a wheelchair all night looking confused and mumbling. I was wondering "Who is pushing him to perform in this condition? The same kind of people who would push someone like Joe Biden to run for President when he clearly is in the beginning stages of dementia. All these people care about is money and power and getting it at all costs. And no i am not a Trump shill he is repulsive and i'm glad he's gone.
 

VGThuy

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I was watching old interviews and why in the world did anyone think it was ok for these grown a$$ male reporters to ask her if she was a virgin or if her breasts were real and she was what? 17?!?! Every single person failed this woman.
Many people really think all celebs are totally fair game and can ask them about anything and make a big story about anything. I think at the time, they said her management and songs made her sexuality and virginity a subject and with all her young tween and teen fans, they wanted to know if she was encouraging them to sleep with boys or to tease them.
 

MacMadame

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The ACLU is doing podcasts on disability issues and have started with one on Spears and conservatorships:

 

overedge

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Interesting discussion here from two reporters who have covered conservator law in California for several years, about the challenges in reporting the Britney story. One of the reporters co-directed the NYTimes documentary on that story.
 

overedge

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Many people really think all celebs are totally fair game and can ask them about anything and make a big story about anything. I think at the time, they said her management and songs made her sexuality and virginity a subject and with all her young tween and teen fans, they wanted to know if she was encouraging them to sleep with boys or to tease them.

It wasn't just her. IIRC in her book Jessica Simpson mentions being asked these same kinds of questions when she first had a hit.
 

VGThuy

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It wasn't just her. IIRC in her book Jessica Simpson mentions being asked these same kinds of questions when she first had a hit.
That's because Jessica Simpson also made a big deal about waiting till marriage and publicized the purity ring she got when she was 12 from her father. I don't remember many people wondering about Christina Aguilera. I'm not saying it's right, but people do think once someone publicizes something themselves, then it becomes fair game to talk about. It's different but I remember when the Jonas Brothers were talked about often due to their purity rings and comedians would make constant jokes about it because it was apparently incomprehensible that young adult/older teen males wouldn't want to have sex with their new found fame and adoration.

It's crazy what adult journalists/commentators are willing to talk about.
 

screech

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That's because Jessica Simpson also made a big deal about waiting till marriage and publicized the purity ring she got when she was 12 from her father. I don't remember many people wondering about Christina Aguilera. I'm not saying it's right, but people do think once someone publicizes something themselves, then it becomes fair game to talk about. It's different but I remember when the Jonas Brothers were talked about often due to their purity rings and comedians would make constant jokes about it because it was apparently incomprehensible that young adult/older teen males wouldn't want to have sex with their new found fame and adoration.

It's crazy what adult journalists/commentators are willing to talk about.
I remember it being a big deal about Jessica as well, but not to the level of Britney. I feel like people thought that because Britney dared to be sexy in her videos, that it made it 'okay' to bring it up. Whereas Jessica didn't go that route.
I'm not saying it's right, however it may have left Britney more open to comments.

With Christina there definitely was a lot of talk once her Dirrrty era happened. She went from clean cut Mickey Mouse Club and singing on Disney soundtracks to a completely different sound.

I remember seeing an interview with Ryan Gosling once where he said he kind of felt guilty, because he was the one to tell Britney and Christina about sex when they were on the Mickey Mouse Club together
 

mpal2

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Every time a read a new article about this conservatorship it reminds me of the Netflix movie "I Care a Lot". It is a fictionalized version of an abusive conservatorship. I have a feeling it's not as fictionalized as we would want it to be for our society as a whole.

I remember seeing an interview with Ryan Gosling once where he said he kind of felt guilty, because he was the one to tell Britney and Christina about sex when they were on the Mickey Mouse Club together

I don't remember where I heard this but Christina Aguilera supposedly had to teach her how to use Google and they were already in their mid to late teens. It feels more and more like Britney grew up removed from any ability to make decisions on her own or learn anything on her own that could help her. Her parents had a tight control over her from the very beginning.
 

overedge

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That's because Jessica Simpson also made a big deal about waiting till marriage and publicized the purity ring she got when she was 12 from her father. I don't remember many people wondering about Christina Aguilera. I'm not saying it's right, but people do think once someone publicizes something themselves, then it becomes fair game to talk about.
I think Jessica also got those kinds of questions because she talked about being Christian and that creepy purity ring business, but her songs were wanting to be in love, being with someone forever, etc. It was the discrepancy that the interviewers seemed interested in, not so much whether she had done the nasty yet, or whatever.
It's different but I remember when the Jonas Brothers were talked about often due to their purity rings and comedians would make constant jokes about it because it was apparently incomprehensible that young adult/older teen males wouldn't want to have sex with their new found fame and adoration.

It's crazy what adult journalists/commentators are willing to talk about.

Hanson came from a pretty religious family too, but they were also kick-ass musicians and didn't sing about religion, politics, etc., so they didn't usually get asked about those things. I think most of the questions for them were along the lines of "are you going to have to get another drummer when that ten-year-old grows up" or "are you going to get sick of playing music with your brothers all the time".
 

screech

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Hanson came from a pretty religious family too, but they were also kick-ass musicians and didn't sing about religion, politics, etc., so they didn't usually get asked about those things. I think most of the questions for them were along the lines of "are you going to have to get another drummer when that ten-year-old grows up" or "are you going to get sick of playing music with your brothers all the time".
With Hanson, they kind of fell out of mainstream popularity after their first album (despite still being successful), so there wasn't general public interest in those questions once they were of 'appropriate' age to ask them (since the youngest member was 11 when MmmBop was released - apparently he's the youngest person ever nominated for a songwriting grammy). And The younger 2 were married young (19/20) and had kids young too. According to Wikipedia, they have 15 children between the 3 of them.
Speaking of Hanson, I'm still disappointed they didn't end up winning Masked Singer last season. And it also endlessly amuses me that they have a beer called MmmHops.
 

overedge

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Speaking of Hanson, I'm still disappointed they didn't end up winning Masked Singer last season. And it also endlessly amuses me that they have a beer called MmmHops.

I'm with you on that one - they were great on Masked Singer. They have also done some really interesting projects on their own, like Taylor being in Tinted Windows (excellent album).
 

once_upon

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I'm not sure Matt Gaetz calling Jamie Spears a dick is a good thing for Britney.

(I know it a Hill article)
 

mpal2

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How many of these people and firms assumed that Britney was fine with the conservatorship arrangements by talking to her father instead of her? They are trying to claim that they were unaware of her feelings on the matter. But that in itself is problematic if they were supposed to be working in her best interest. If they were really working in her best interest, shouldn't they have had some awareness of what she wanted?
 

AxelAnnie

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How many of these people and firms assumed that Britney was fine with the conservatorship arrangements by talking to her father instead of her? They are trying to claim that they were unaware of her feelings on the matter. But that in itself is problematic if they were supposed to be working in her best interest. If they were really working in her best interest, shouldn't they have had some awareness of what she wanted?
Perhaps they should have checked in with Brittany. Just remember, though, the reason there is a conservatorship is that her judgment is impaired.

If I was running this shebang.....I would have her undergo a psych eval annually. I understand that she does not want a health eval, and that is the stopping block to her changing the terms of her conservatorship.

I assume there was some annual report done by someone to either the court or the main person (I assume there is a head poo-bah that can call meetings.)

Does anyone know how much $$ she receives in a year, and what things she pays for?
 

mpal2

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There is no version of conservatorship that people should be completely unaware of someone's personal wishes. In the worst case scenario someone may have to override their wishes. But they should always be aware of them.

There are so many things coming out that remind me of my family. My grandmother and aunt destroyed my cousin out of love by controlling her every choice. I would never say my cousin deserves to be free of a conservatorship. I would also classify what they did to her as abuse.
 

overedge

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Does anyone know how much $$ she receives in a year, and what things she pays for?

According to one story her dad gets paid $16K a month to administer the conservatorship, and also gets a cut of her concert revenues. IIRC she pays child support to her ex-husband, because her sons live mostly with him. I would imagine she also pays the expenses for her own household, including staff and security.
 

mpal2

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According to one story her dad gets paid $16K a month to administer the conservatorship, and also gets a cut of her concert revenues. IIRC she pays child support to her ex-husband, because her sons live mostly with him. I would imagine she also pays the expenses for her own household, including staff and security.
I believe she also pays for all the attorney fees.
 

UGG

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That's because Jessica Simpson also made a big deal about waiting till marriage and publicized the purity ring she got when she was 12 from her father. I don't remember many people wondering about Christina Aguilera. I'm not saying it's right, but people do think once someone publicizes something themselves, then it becomes fair game to talk about. It's different but I remember when the Jonas Brothers were talked about often due to their purity rings and comedians would make constant jokes about it because it was apparently incomprehensible that young adult/older teen males wouldn't want to have sex with their new found fame and adoration.

It's crazy what adult journalists/commentators are willing to talk about.
That’s because Xtina took control of the situation and basically let everyone know through her music she wasn’t a virgin. Which is also F-d up bc she was like 20. Today that type of questioning would never fly. No one ever asked Taylor Swift about her virginity and she became popular about 10 years after Britney. Now that I think about it- Lady Gaga and Pink were never asked about their virginity either and they were both very sexual artists. Men had some gross obsession with both Britney and Jessica. They probably would have treated Xtina the same but she jumped ahead of it.
 
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VGThuy

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That’s because Xtina took control of the situation and basically let everyone know through her music she wasn’t a virgin. Which is also F-d up bc she was like 20.
Totally F-d up. I do remember the early-to-mid 2000s being a notably regressive era where people were acting like they were much more moral than before. I guess propping up young female virginity was a part of that.

Personal anecdote, my half-siblings from my father grew up in a MUCH more conservative, more suburban neighborhood than I, my brother, or my half-siblings from my mother did, and I remember getting into a very heated argument with my half-sister, who grew up in the more conservative area, about getting a purity ring. My dad was fresh-off-the-boat Vietnamese guy, who had no idea what that was. All he knew was that my sister wanted a cheap and affordable ring so he got her one. Now that I'm older, I realized I can't control everything my younger siblings do and should have just let her enjoy having one and let her figure it out on her own, but at the time, it felt truly important for to not put purity and virginity on a pedestal. I think I was afraid they were going to turn into people whose values would be so different from mine. More than ten years later, she ain't the type to wear a purity ring. Whew.
 
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screech

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Backstreet Boys' AJ McLean spoke about when he last saw Britney. A couple of quotes:
I could just see that, you know, this, this wasn’t her, like, I’m not looking at the person I knew from years and years ago. And I know a lot of that in my opinion, could be whatever they’re, they’re keeping her on or whatever they have her on, which is just insane. It’s not, it’s not fair. And I just don’t think it’s right.

One thing that really grinds my gears because I am sober and because I am in a, a program, the fact that she cannot stay in contact with anyone from her fellowship, from when she was going to AA meetings, that is, is BS to me because that’s, that’s the whole core of what we do in this program, is fellowship. We lean on each other, we look up to each other for support
 

overedge

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@screech Thank you for posting those quotes. I never thought of that, but if she's been part of group programs that are based on mutual support, it certainly doesn't help her to be cut off from any contact with members of those groups. They could really be helpful to her in getting better.
 

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