Samokhvalov's interview with Gleikhengauz

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
11,816
Have multiple skaters left Perron and then returned? Nah, didn’t think so.
Didn't know that the basis of it being 'multiple skaters' needed to apply, and also still waiting for the evidence that you're suggesting. Your 'bullshit' reply to me said this:
Athletes (and people in general) leave and then return to abusive situations all the time,
So you're going to pick and choose when it could be happening?
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,187
The difference here is there is zero evidence of what many storytellers here seem to be claiming- and yes, there are posters here who have completely made up scenarios to fit their 'Tutberidze is the worst' narratives. Maybe things will come out 10 or 20 years from now- who knows? But for now don't 'bullshit' unless you want to provide all the evidence for what must be happening.

You know, it's perfectly logical to think that these skaters all want to be in environments where they really strive to push harder and that there is nothing dangerous happening. I gave the Rochette example above where Manon Perron fired her- for lack of work ethic. Are you going to throw out the possibility of Perron doing some shifty stuff behind the scenes but Rochette still returning to her a year later anyways? Nah, didn't think so.

Um, did you read Yulia Lip's "powdered diet" story? And also Evgenia Medvedeva's stories of having to fill the fridge because she used to be so scared of eating?
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
526
Their starvation of skaters and imposing reward and shaming systems around food and weight that create eating disorders (and at the very least a disordered approach to food and diet among students not predisposed to full-blown eating disorders) is right there in print in their own words. What more proof do you want?
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,187
Their starvation of skaters and imposing reward and shaming systems around food and weight that create eating disorders (and at the very least a disordered approach to food and diet among students not predisposed to full-blown eating disorders) is right there in print in their own words. What more proof do you want?

People always think child abuse is okay as long as it produces the desired result. To this day there are people who defend the Karolyis.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,187
It's also very possible to be an excellent coach technically and ineffective at motivating a skater and/or problematic in the way they handle puberty. Katia Gordeeva in an interview with TSL expressed gratitude for the excellent technique Zhuk gave G&G, but still said that it wasn't working out with him coaching them and she needed to move to a different coach.

They are not mutually exclusive.
 

zoe111

Well-Known Member
Messages
569
i personally think Danill's comments are out of line - on a lot of fronts. 6 months ago Aliona had no real 3A and now she's got one. Her jumps are a lot cleaner as well so she's clearly worked hard to get this far. i watched her SP at Skate Canada where i think that 3A should have been called clean (generally thought the calling at Skate Canada was ridiculous overall). it was a pretty good skate overall compared to where she's been. She looked so happy and relieved that it was clear she's lost a lot of confidence in herself and needed a feel good moment. it is actually really hard to stay motivated when you've lost your confidence and if this interview is any clue, i don't think they are behaving that well toward her and i'd guess it's a bit of a tough environment for her right now. Yes, she brought some of that on herself but if they agreed to take her back then they should include having a better attitude with her. It's ok to push her if she's not demonstrating consistent motivation. Not ok to publicly slam her irrespective of what she is or isn't doing at their rink.

And his comments re Medvedeva and Zag were also completely unnecessary.
 

Immortelle

Rejected by Krasnopolski
Messages
2,029
All of my kids are 17/18/19. I teach juniors and seniors. They're kids. They might look and act mature but they're babies and they're immature.
Exactly. Their brains aren’t fully developed. They mightn’t need their backsides wiped but they need guidance and good role models.

Just another thought: Russian coaches (and teachers in general) of kids in their teens seem to expect a higher level of independence from students than in “the West”. I may be wrong but I think there is a difference in how, for example, Orser manages his younger students vs Eteri and the Sambo70 team.

If I were coaching Aliona, I would want to get her some counseling to help her work out her priorities. She sounds like a mixed up teenager with lots of emotions inside and so much she wants to try.
 
Last edited:

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
523
Here's a thought - if you coach a skater who you think is not reaching her full potential and who's struggling with motivation, how about getting her to see a sports psychologist that will try and help her instead of airing her supposed dirty laundry to the press?

It's a shame to see so many defend him here, he's part of a team that has a tendency to badmouth their skaters once they have no real use for them anymore, but he has been targeting Kostornaia since the moment it was announced she was returning to their coaching camp, and he is doing it very publicly and does anyone doubt that it also affects the way she is viewed by the judges at this point?
So his "our beloved" comment is basically the same as an abusive spouse talking about how much they love their significant other.
It's worthless.
(And let's not forget we are ignoring the elephant in the room which is the very strong possibility of her being abused, abuse that started in that very camp and that Gleikhengauz likely has known about and in any other country would be considered as a mandatory reporter).
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
17,128
@angi yes, that adds a layer to this whole situation, although from what I understand of Russia, it would not be considered abuse. It has crossed my mind that he may have been rejected by her or one of her training partners and that might play a role in this public animosity.

Weren't there interviews when she came back about the rules and requirements the coaches were imposing on her? So now DG wants us to believe they have no recourse when she won't follow the plan in practice or won't come to practice? Something doesn't track here. Although I will say, his comments on her taking out choreography and transitions make perfect sense. But maybe I'm inclined to see it that way because I've been saying the same thing.

Typically, if there is some kind of contentious situation, and one person has a lot to say about it publicly, there's a solid chance their comments are not the whole picture or not entirely accurate. It's possible that applies here.
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
Messages
24,281
Weren't there interviews when she came back about the rules and requirements the coaches were imposing on her? So now DG wants us to believe they have no recourse when she won't follow the plan in practice or won't come to practice? Something doesn't track here.
Totally different situation. Two years ago she was one of their top three - they needed her - but that's no longer true, so maybe they think their efforts are better expended on Valieva, Scherbakova, Kromykh and Trusova. In other words, maybe she's too much work for not a lot of return. (I know that sounds cold, but you can only get away with being a diva if you're the star.)
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,969
After stories of hidden abuse and the way athletes who had reputations for being “lazy” have come out with their side of the story, I find when coaches call young athletes who have been conditioned by same coaches since they were kids as “divas” or characterize them as so, not to take it at face value or to believe it right away.

I think we forget these athletes are often pushing their own bodies to their own physical breaking point and they’re not robots just because there are other skaters there who are amazingly pulling off quads. Those quads are amazing for a reason. It’s not like your body was meant to be that stressed full time. I bet even the “lazy” skaters are devoting more time and have more commitment to their skating than most people do at their regular full-time jobs.

Adult or no, I don’t find the need to spill such insider rink info to a journalist. If I had a coach who did that, I’d fire them right away and then look for other legal avenues. There is a clear power imbalance at play at the moment and I think Kostornaia is simply an easy target due to some gossipy things and her initially leaving this camp prior and returning with her tail between her legs. She could be the most annoying person in the world and maybe she really is they lazy, but it’s still clear these coaches aren’t acting in the most mature or professional way either.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
17,128
@BittyBug I'm not sure how your post relates to my post.

When she returned to Eteri earlier this year, there were interviews about the necessary conditions she would have to meet in order for Eteri to accept her back.

According to this article, the conditions were no days off and jumping triple axles.

Tutberidze stated to 1RT, "She must fully enter our process without any more days off, and not be concerned about who else is on the ice. And she must jump the triple Axel."

So it doesn't make sense to me that he's complaining about her skipping practice when that was apparently grounds for terminating the coach-athlete relationship.

 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
Messages
24,281
@Coco IIRC there was a deadline for her compliance. Maybe she met it and has slacked off since. Don't think they can fire her mid-season under the Russian structure, but I could be wrong.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,518
Weren't Trusova and Kostronaia both injured when they first left Tutberdize's group?

Perhaps the reticence to repetition is also about trying to avoid injury? Kostornaia appears to be ok injury wise and has recovered her 3A despite not training as hard. Trusova has a stress fracture in her foot...perhaps from over training.

Just thinking out loud really.
 

zoe111

Well-Known Member
Messages
569
@BittyBug I'm not sure how your post relates to my post.

When she returned to Eteri earlier this year, there were interviews about the necessary conditions she would have to meet in order for Eteri to accept her back.

According to this article, the conditions were no days off and jumping triple axles.



So it doesn't make sense to me that he's complaining about her skipping practice when that was apparently grounds for terminating the coach-athlete relationship.

This. i also think something doesn't track with this and i doubt very much she would have worked to the deadline of her probation and then slacked off once she was past it. i think her confidence has tanked and as i said above, it's very difficult to stay motivated when the environment around you doesn't feel good and you've had a bunch of set backs and you feel people don't believe in you.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,198
An 18 year old is an adult in America and has to be responsible for their decisions, regardless of what you feel for your students. They can't break a law and then say "Oh well my teacher said I'm still a baby..." They can't shirk their work duties and say that they don't know better because they are children. They can't skip college classes and say mommy never told them they had to go. In Russia, it's no different and they certainly aren't as coddled as what some of FSU seems to think.

Tutberidze & co. could say something completely normal and people would still rip it to shreds, so of course I found Daniil's interview interesting. I'm not triggered by what seems to be an honest critique, and I think the line about the Instagram post was more to say 'Yeah, that's nice and all, but what would be better is to actually show it in the skating and put in the work'. Regardless of what happened in the past, Trusova and Kostornaia both found their ways back to them this year and if things were as constantly miserable as people try to suggest, it wouldn't have happened.


With all due respect, give me a break. You know that people can easily fluctuate in their motivation levels throughout a period of time. You think all of your students stay as interested in the subject matter throughout a year as they are in the first few weeks? Even if you're teacher of the year, you know that some people lose interest and they do it real quick. Top-level skaters have gotten lazy and still had all the talent in the world. Christopher Bowman used to go on benders for days at a time and show up to a competition and somehow put it together more or less- he alone disproves whatever point you're trying to make. Tim Goebel was fired by Frank Carroll. Elena Sokolova was in the Grand Prix in fall 2003, just 6 or so months after a run at winning Worlds, in terrible shape and was ripped to shreds by the internet and by Dick Button. Motivation is always shifting.

ETA- your Bowman line was edited in after I started replying to you, so at least we agree there.
So I take it that as an adult, you would be perfectly happy if your next job review was made public or your boss’s critical comments were published in a newspaper or on the internet?

I’m not sure what’s acceptable in Russia, but in the US, the kinds of criticisms Danny G is making of Aliona are generally not made public until well after the fact, if at all. The criticism of Aliona stands out because - aside from his snarks about Alina / Evgenia (about whom his attitude seems to be that since they’re no longer competing, they’re irrelevant) - his comments about the other skaters are relatively professional (either constructive or no comment).

Incidentally, the age when you’re considered an adult has fluctuated over time and is linked mostly to political and economic realities, not to developmental maturity. In the US, the age of majority was 21 until the 1970s, and it is still 21 in Mississippi (and 19 in Alabama and Nebraska).
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
I don't think it's acceptable in Russia. But sports interviews seem a different game, especially for a sport as trashy and melodramatic as skating.

I am not sure if it's not the case in the US or not. Again, I'm specifically only talking about sports - in our case, figure skating.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,198
I don't think it's acceptable in Russia. But sports interviews seem a different game, especially for a sport as trashy and melodramatic as skating.

I am not sure if it's not the case in the US or not. Again, I'm specifically only talking about sports - in our case, figure skating.
I think US sports media frequently criticize players and coaches for lack of results, poor strategy, etc. And I’m sure I’ve seen press conferences where coaches say stuff like, we need to do better against the run, or converting on third downs, or we have to work on x, etc. What I don’t recall seeing (and maybe I’m just unobservant) is a coach calling out a player or skater or team for being lazy or uncoachable, which is essentially what he’s saying here.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
What I don’t recall seeing (and maybe I’m just unobservant) is a coach calling out a player or skater or team for being lazy or uncoachable, which is essentially what he’s saying here.
I suppose not interviews... But we've definitely heard of unprofessional behaviour (by the US standards) from coaches. Arutyunyan's "elephant" (or was it "pig"?) remark, or Frank Carroll's canning of Gracie Gold both come to mind.
 

Skibean

Well-Known Member
Messages
181
I suppose not interviews... But we've definitely heard of unprofessional behaviour (by the US standards) from coaches. Arutyunyan's "elephant" (or was it "pig"?) remark, or Frank Carroll's canning of Gracie Gold both come to mind.
Frank was Gracie’s coach only though. The coaches in Russia have more involvement on the daily lives of their skaters.
By all accounts (people in the know) Frank had tried very hard with Gracie and wasn’t the monster people on the forums keep trying to rewrite history and make him out to be.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
Frank was Gracie’s coach only though.
And yet, his behaviour was called out as being unprofessional by American standards, by Americans, as I recall.

By all accounts Frank has tried very hard with Gracie and wasn’t the monster people on the forums keep trying to rewrite history and make him out to be.
I expect this is precisely what a lot of Russians will be saying about Daniil Gleikhengauz, and Eteri Tutberidze, and Alexei Mishin, and Evgeni Plushenko...
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,198
I suppose not interviews... But we've definitely heard of unprofessional behaviour (by the US standards) from coaches. Arutyunyan's "elephant" (or was it "pig"?) remark, or Frank Carroll's canning of Gracie Gold both come to mind.
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I think the Raf comment was made directly to Adam, and it was Adam himself who later made it public. With respect to Gracie and Frank, if I recall he made a fairly restrained public statement that they were parting ways, without having told her first. I’m not defending either coach, but I don’t think either situation is quite the same thing as this one. More than anything, Danny G’s statements seem both like he’s heading off criticism for her results and revenging himself on her for her prior statements/ actions.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information