Didn't know that the basis of it being 'multiple skaters' needed to apply, and also still waiting for the evidence that you're suggesting. Your 'bullshit' reply to me said this:
So you're going to pick and choose when it could be happening?
Samokhvalov's interview with Gleikhengauz
- Thread starter TAHbKA
- Start date
canbelto
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 9,968
Um, did you read Yulia Lip's "powdered diet" story? And also Evgenia Medvedeva's stories of having to fill the fridge because she used to be so scared of eating?
bladesofgorey
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,193
Their starvation of skaters and imposing reward and shaming systems around food and weight that create eating disorders (and at the very least a disordered approach to food and diet among students not predisposed to full-blown eating disorders) is right there in print in their own words. What more proof do you want?
canbelto
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 9,968
People always think child abuse is okay as long as it produces the desired result. To this day there are people who defend the Karolyis.
canbelto
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 9,968
It's also very possible to be an excellent coach technically and ineffective at motivating a skater and/or problematic in the way they handle puberty. Katia Gordeeva in an interview with TSL expressed gratitude for the excellent technique Zhuk gave G&G, but still said that it wasn't working out with him coaching them and she needed to move to a different coach.
They are not mutually exclusive.
They are not mutually exclusive.
Thanks for posting this. He really has nice style and his Carmen reminds me of Alina's. Shame his jumps didn't work out but there's definitely something there.
i personally think Danill's comments are out of line - on a lot of fronts. 6 months ago Aliona had no real 3A and now she's got one. Her jumps are a lot cleaner as well so she's clearly worked hard to get this far. i watched her SP at Skate Canada where i think that 3A should have been called clean (generally thought the calling at Skate Canada was ridiculous overall). it was a pretty good skate overall compared to where she's been. She looked so happy and relieved that it was clear she's lost a lot of confidence in herself and needed a feel good moment. it is actually really hard to stay motivated when you've lost your confidence and if this interview is any clue, i don't think they are behaving that well toward her and i'd guess it's a bit of a tough environment for her right now. Yes, she brought some of that on herself but if they agreed to take her back then they should include having a better attitude with her. It's ok to push her if she's not demonstrating consistent motivation. Not ok to publicly slam her irrespective of what she is or isn't doing at their rink.
And his comments re Medvedeva and Zag were also completely unnecessary.
And his comments re Medvedeva and Zag were also completely unnecessary.
Immortelle
Rejected by Krasnopolski
- Messages
- 2,064
Exactly. Their brains aren’t fully developed. They mightn’t need their backsides wiped but they need guidance and good role models.
Just another thought: Russian coaches (and teachers in general) of kids in their teens seem to expect a higher level of independence from students than in “the West”. I may be wrong but I think there is a difference in how, for example, Orser manages his younger students vs Eteri and the Sambo70 team.
If I were coaching Aliona, I would want to get her some counseling to help her work out her priorities. She sounds like a mixed up teenager with lots of emotions inside and so much she wants to try.
Last edited:
Here's a thought - if you coach a skater who you think is not reaching her full potential and who's struggling with motivation, how about getting her to see a sports psychologist that will try and help her instead of airing her supposed dirty laundry to the press?
It's a shame to see so many defend him here, he's part of a team that has a tendency to badmouth their skaters once they have no real use for them anymore, but he has been targeting Kostornaia since the moment it was announced she was returning to their coaching camp, and he is doing it very publicly and does anyone doubt that it also affects the way she is viewed by the judges at this point?
So his "our beloved" comment is basically the same as an abusive spouse talking about how much they love their significant other.
It's worthless.
(And let's not forget we are ignoring the elephant in the room which is the very strong possibility of her being abused, abuse that started in that very camp and that Gleikhengauz likely has known about and in any other country would be considered as a mandatory reporter).
It's a shame to see so many defend him here, he's part of a team that has a tendency to badmouth their skaters once they have no real use for them anymore, but he has been targeting Kostornaia since the moment it was announced she was returning to their coaching camp, and he is doing it very publicly and does anyone doubt that it also affects the way she is viewed by the judges at this point?
So his "our beloved" comment is basically the same as an abusive spouse talking about how much they love their significant other.
It's worthless.
(And let's not forget we are ignoring the elephant in the room which is the very strong possibility of her being abused, abuse that started in that very camp and that Gleikhengauz likely has known about and in any other country would be considered as a mandatory reporter).
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,210
@angi yes, that adds a layer to this whole situation, although from what I understand of Russia, it would not be considered abuse. It has crossed my mind that he may have been rejected by her or one of her training partners and that might play a role in this public animosity.
Weren't there interviews when she came back about the rules and requirements the coaches were imposing on her? So now DG wants us to believe they have no recourse when she won't follow the plan in practice or won't come to practice? Something doesn't track here. Although I will say, his comments on her taking out choreography and transitions make perfect sense. But maybe I'm inclined to see it that way because I've been saying the same thing.
Typically, if there is some kind of contentious situation, and one person has a lot to say about it publicly, there's a solid chance their comments are not the whole picture or not entirely accurate. It's possible that applies here.
Weren't there interviews when she came back about the rules and requirements the coaches were imposing on her? So now DG wants us to believe they have no recourse when she won't follow the plan in practice or won't come to practice? Something doesn't track here. Although I will say, his comments on her taking out choreography and transitions make perfect sense. But maybe I'm inclined to see it that way because I've been saying the same thing.
Typically, if there is some kind of contentious situation, and one person has a lot to say about it publicly, there's a solid chance their comments are not the whole picture or not entirely accurate. It's possible that applies here.
BittyBug
Childless Cat Lady
- Messages
- 27,661
Totally different situation. Two years ago she was one of their top three - they needed her - but that's no longer true, so maybe they think their efforts are better expended on Valieva, Scherbakova, Kromykh and Trusova. In other words, maybe she's too much work for not a lot of return. (I know that sounds cold, but you can only get away with being a diva if you're the star.)
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,176
After stories of hidden abuse and the way athletes who had reputations for being “lazy” have come out with their side of the story, I find when coaches call young athletes who have been conditioned by same coaches since they were kids as “divas” or characterize them as so, not to take it at face value or to believe it right away.
I think we forget these athletes are often pushing their own bodies to their own physical breaking point and they’re not robots just because there are other skaters there who are amazingly pulling off quads. Those quads are amazing for a reason. It’s not like your body was meant to be that stressed full time. I bet even the “lazy” skaters are devoting more time and have more commitment to their skating than most people do at their regular full-time jobs.
Adult or no, I don’t find the need to spill such insider rink info to a journalist. If I had a coach who did that, I’d fire them right away and then look for other legal avenues. There is a clear power imbalance at play at the moment and I think Kostornaia is simply an easy target due to some gossipy things and her initially leaving this camp prior and returning with her tail between her legs. She could be the most annoying person in the world and maybe she really is they lazy, but it’s still clear these coaches aren’t acting in the most mature or professional way either.
I think we forget these athletes are often pushing their own bodies to their own physical breaking point and they’re not robots just because there are other skaters there who are amazingly pulling off quads. Those quads are amazing for a reason. It’s not like your body was meant to be that stressed full time. I bet even the “lazy” skaters are devoting more time and have more commitment to their skating than most people do at their regular full-time jobs.
Adult or no, I don’t find the need to spill such insider rink info to a journalist. If I had a coach who did that, I’d fire them right away and then look for other legal avenues. There is a clear power imbalance at play at the moment and I think Kostornaia is simply an easy target due to some gossipy things and her initially leaving this camp prior and returning with her tail between her legs. She could be the most annoying person in the world and maybe she really is they lazy, but it’s still clear these coaches aren’t acting in the most mature or professional way either.
barbarafan
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 5,311
when and how did she get Covid?
ChelleC
Anti-quad activist
- Messages
- 8,900
Rostelecom last season.
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,210
@BittyBug I'm not sure how your post relates to my post.
When she returned to Eteri earlier this year, there were interviews about the necessary conditions she would have to meet in order for Eteri to accept her back.
According to this article, the conditions were no days off and jumping triple axles.
So it doesn't make sense to me that he's complaining about her skipping practice when that was apparently grounds for terminating the coach-athlete relationship.
www.google.com
When she returned to Eteri earlier this year, there were interviews about the necessary conditions she would have to meet in order for Eteri to accept her back.
According to this article, the conditions were no days off and jumping triple axles.
So it doesn't make sense to me that he's complaining about her skipping practice when that was apparently grounds for terminating the coach-athlete relationship.
Alena Kostornaia explains reasons for return to coach Eteri Tutberidze
After missing out on selection for Russia's World Championship team, Kostornaia has gone back to Sambo-70 initially until the end of the season.
barbarafan
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 5,311
Obviously something wrong with his work ethic.
barbarafan
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 5,311
Thank-you...I did not know........fatigue and breathing can take a very long time to repair....certainly at that kind of athletic level.
antmanb
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 12,639
Weren't Trusova and Kostronaia both injured when they first left Tutberdize's group?
Perhaps the reticence to repetition is also about trying to avoid injury? Kostornaia appears to be ok injury wise and has recovered her 3A despite not training as hard. Trusova has a stress fracture in her foot...perhaps from over training.
Just thinking out loud really.
Perhaps the reticence to repetition is also about trying to avoid injury? Kostornaia appears to be ok injury wise and has recovered her 3A despite not training as hard. Trusova has a stress fracture in her foot...perhaps from over training.
Just thinking out loud really.
This. i also think something doesn't track with this and i doubt very much she would have worked to the deadline of her probation and then slacked off once she was past it. i think her confidence has tanked and as i said above, it's very difficult to stay motivated when the environment around you doesn't feel good and you've had a bunch of set backs and you feel people don't believe in you.@BittyBug I'm not sure how your post relates to my post.
When she returned to Eteri earlier this year, there were interviews about the necessary conditions she would have to meet in order for Eteri to accept her back.
According to this article, the conditions were no days off and jumping triple axles.
So it doesn't make sense to me that he's complaining about her skipping practice when that was apparently grounds for terminating the coach-athlete relationship.
Alena Kostornaia explains reasons for return to coach Eteri Tutberidze
After missing out on selection for Russia's World Championship team, Kostornaia has gone back to Sambo-70 initially until the end of the season.
So I take it that as an adult, you would be perfectly happy if your next job review was made public or your boss’s critical comments were published in a newspaper or on the internet?
I’m not sure what’s acceptable in Russia, but in the US, the kinds of criticisms Danny G is making of Aliona are generally not made public until well after the fact, if at all. The criticism of Aliona stands out because - aside from his snarks about Alina / Evgenia (about whom his attitude seems to be that since they’re no longer competing, they’re irrelevant) - his comments about the other skaters are relatively professional (either constructive or no comment).
Incidentally, the age when you’re considered an adult has fluctuated over time and is linked mostly to political and economic realities, not to developmental maturity. In the US, the age of majority was 21 until the 1970s, and it is still 21 in Mississippi (and 19 in Alabama and Nebraska).
I don't think it's acceptable in Russia. But sports interviews seem a different game, especially for a sport as trashy and melodramatic as skating.
I am not sure if it's not the case in the US or not. Again, I'm specifically only talking about sports - in our case, figure skating.
I am not sure if it's not the case in the US or not. Again, I'm specifically only talking about sports - in our case, figure skating.
I think US sports media frequently criticize players and coaches for lack of results, poor strategy, etc. And I’m sure I’ve seen press conferences where coaches say stuff like, we need to do better against the run, or converting on third downs, or we have to work on x, etc. What I don’t recall seeing (and maybe I’m just unobservant) is a coach calling out a player or skater or team for being lazy or uncoachable, which is essentially what he’s saying here.
I suppose not interviews... But we've definitely heard of unprofessional behaviour (by the US standards) from coaches. Arutyunyan's "elephant" (or was it "pig"?) remark, or Frank Carroll's canning of Gracie Gold both come to mind.
Frank was Gracie’s coach only though. The coaches in Russia have more involvement on the daily lives of their skaters.
By all accounts (people in the know) Frank had tried very hard with Gracie and wasn’t the monster people on the forums keep trying to rewrite history and make him out to be.
And yet, his behaviour was called out as being unprofessional by American standards, by Americans, as I recall.
I expect this is precisely what a lot of Russians will be saying about Daniil Gleikhengauz, and Eteri Tutberidze, and Alexei Mishin, and Evgeni Plushenko...
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
Just checked and the original thread for the NYTimes article published during the 2018 Olympics is still in GSD: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...et-starvation-in-men’s-figure-skating.103337/
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I think the Raf comment was made directly to Adam, and it was Adam himself who later made it public. With respect to Gracie and Frank, if I recall he made a fairly restrained public statement that they were parting ways, without having told her first. I’m not defending either coach, but I don’t think either situation is quite the same thing as this one. More than anything, Danny G’s statements seem both like he’s heading off criticism for her results and revenging himself on her for her prior statements/ actions.
