Boyang withdrew from gpf?

Japanfan said:
Kudos to whomever coined the name.

IIRC Kurt didn't indicate that he didn't coin it. I really don't remember what he said, but I do remember having the district impression that it was Kurt's name. I wouldn't have had the impression if he had said "they call him Boing Boing. To be fair, maybe he did. But it wouldn't surprise me if Kurt decided to sort of take credit for it himself.
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Kurt acted as if he made it up himself. I think his words were "I call him boing boing", but I distinctly remember reading it on FSU first. I'l see if I can find who it was.
Also I think the original may have happened because of autocorrect.
 
Mrs. P said:
My main point is that Boyang isn't like the Surya Bonaly of the top men as far as SS. :)
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No, but figure skating is comparative, despite what the ISU "tries" to say. It's a comparative sport. The bottom line is that Boyang, Nathan, and others do not warrant skating skills marks THAT close to Hanyu and Chan, which is what the marks are saying. If Hanyu and Chan are a 9.50, Boyang and Nathan should be at around an 8.00. Recall that per the ISU, a 5.00 counts as "average."

I have seen them both live, and there is not that much of a discrepancy. Nathan has almost no knee bend, while Boyang's edges are not what I would call "clean."

On the flip side, Shoma has relatively good skating skills but severely lacks in terms of difficult steps and turns. His transitions mark should be in the low 7s, if you want to be realistic. Yet the judges give him 9s.
 
Mrs. P said:
Just curious, purple skates, have you see Boyang live?

He's much more impressive in person. He has great speed and great skating skills. I agree they're probably not like Patrick Chan level, but he holds his own with others in the top six, I'd say. He also has a great stage presence, again I wouldn't say Jason Brown-levels of charisma, but again, the guy skates big.

I will say his program and choreography doesn't do him favors though. Lori can be hit and miss (though I do like his SP this season and Spiderman was great too) and she's mostly miss for Boyang. He's capable of doing difficult choreography but he isn't given much to work with.
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I would say his stroking is decent, but he slows down considerably in the steps and the edges and turns there are not that great.
 
MAXSwagg said:
People can have career-ending injuries from doubles. If you have good, pure foundations and technique, the chance for injury is minor. Hence why Javier, Patrick, Yuzu, Boyang, and others have not had significant injuries.
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You must have forgot Yuzuru's "pure foundations and technique" just caused him a "minor" injury on a 4Lz attempt.
 
MAXSwagg said:
No, but figure skating is comparative, despite what the ISU "tries" to say. It's a comparative sport. The bottom line is that Boyang, Nathan, and others do not warrant skating skills marks THAT close to Hanyu and Chan, which is what the marks are saying. If Hanyu and Chan are a 9.50, Boyang and Nathan should be at around an 8.00. Recall that per the ISU, a 5.00 counts as "average."

I have seen them both live, and there is not that much of a discrepancy. Nathan has almost no knee bend, while Boyang's edges are not what I would call "clean."

On the flip side, Shoma has relatively good skating skills but severely lacks in terms of difficult steps and turns. His transitions mark should be in the low 7s, if you want to be realistic. Yet the judges give him 9s.
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Yeah, Yuzuru 9.5 but Shoma and Nathan 7 and 8. You are delusional, Maxswagg!
 
Tahuu said:
Yeah, Yuzuru 9.5 but Shoma and Nathan 7 and 8. You are delusional, Maxswagg!
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In skating skills, yes. Have you seen them live (as in more than once)? And regarding transitions, if you actually, you know, look at what Shoma is doing, most of his transitions are three turns and Mohawks, maybe a bracket and Choctaw here and there. This is not an opinion. It's a fact. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional, not me. Or willfully ignorant. Or lying. Or all three.

There's much proof that Hanyu and Chan have the most transitions, followed closely by Javier, then there is a drop-off to the rest. I think even Adam has more transitions, generally, than Shoma. And that's saying something. Is that reflected in the scores? No, so it's a pity for Adam.

If you look at the step sequences, with is really where you see the skating skills, Hanyu and Chan are mostly the only ones who have every step, turn, and body movement choreographed to the music, down to the note as much as they can. Javier does this most time also. This, again, is a fact. As was mentioned above, Boyang loses speed when it comes to complex combinations of difficult steps and turns and the edges are scratchy (this is similar to Medvedeva, who is SO slow in the step sequences), and Nathan has more clean edges but certainly does not gain speed from them, mostly because he has essentially no knee bend. Shoma, it's more difficult to assess because he rarely does combinations of difficult steps and turns.
 
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MAXSwagg said:
In skating skills, yes. Have you seen them live (as in more than once)? And regarding transitions, if you actually, you know, look at what Shoma is doing, most of his transitions are three turns and Mohawks, maybe a bracket and Choctaw here and there. This is not an opinion. It's a fact. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional, not me. Or willfully ignorant. Or lying. Or all three.

There's much proof that Hanyu and Chan have the most transitions, followed closely by Javier, then there is a drop-off to the rest. I think even Adam has more transitions, generally, than Shoma. And that's saying something. Is that reflected in the scores? No, so it's a pity for Adam.

If you look at the step sequences, with is really where you see the skating skills, Hanyu and Chan are mostly the only ones who have every step, turn, and body movement choreographed to the music, down to the note as much as they can. Javier does this most time also. This, again, is a fact. As was mentioned above, Boyang loses speed when it comes to complex combinations of difficult steps and turns and the edges are scratchy (this is similar to Medvedeva, who is SO slow in the step sequences), and Nathan has more clean edges but certainly does not gain speed from them, mostly because he has essentially no knee bend. Shoma, it's more difficult to assess because he rarely does combinations of difficult steps and turns.
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Don't worry. They will be judged by ISU judges, not you. Your putdown of Hanyu's close rivals is pathetic and useless.
 
Tahuu said:
Don't worry. They will be judged by ISU judges, not you. Your putdown of Hanyu's close rivals is pathetic and useless.
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:confused: It wasn't a put down, it was a reasoned assessment, in his (or her) opinion. I don't know whether I agree with MAXSwagg, but I'll keep what he said in mind when I watch the skaters he mentioned.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Chan and Hanyu have the most transitions.
 
Japanfan said:
:confused: It wasn't a put down, it was a reasoned assessment, in his (or her) opinion. I don't know whether I agree with MAXSwagg, but I'll keep what he said in mind when I watch the skaters he mentioned.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Chan and Hanyu have the most transitions.
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Only fools would buy what maxswagg says about Hanyu's rivals. But I don't think you are a fool. Just curious, do you write Ice Time for Japan Times?
 
I wasn't aware that Hanyu was going to be at the GPF.

And while good technique can help avoid injuries, it is by no means the only factor. I don't think Mishin taught his skaters poor technique, yet Yagudin left the sport at a young age due to hip problems and Plushenko has had so many surgeries even he might have lost count by now.
 
Japanfan said:
:confused: It wasn't a put down, it was a reasoned assessment, in his (or her) opinion. I don't know whether I agree with MAXSwagg, but I'll keep what he said in mind when I watch the skaters he mentioned.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Chan and Hanyu have the most transitions.
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Fireovertheice has calculated the amount of transitions and 1 foot skating of top guys. This is the result for your reference.
I would say @MAXSwagg has a point when it comes to TR. These skating moves can be identified and counted. It’s not subjective like interpretation or choreography.
—-
SS & Transitions (Av. 2 comps - first part of 2017-2018 season)
YUZURU HANYU (ACI, CoR)
Crossovers/crossunders (av.): 26
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 38
Total time one-foot skating (Steps and turns; between bracket simple one-foot glide): 56 secs
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet: BS (hold 1 sec.); lunge (0.50 sec.); SE (hold 0.50 sec.); SE (hold 0.80 sec); SE x 2 (hold 0.50 sec.); IB (hold 2 sec.)
Other skating steps or movements: pivot (hold 1 sec.); spiral (hold 0.50 sec.); hydroglide/hydorblade (hold 2.80 sec.);

PATRICK CHAN (SC, OFSC)
Crossovers/crossunders (av.): 26
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 38
Total time one-foot skating (Steps and turns; between bracket simple one-foot glide): 46.5 secs*
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet: lunge (hold 0.30 sec.); rotating knee slide (hold 0.80 sec), rotating knee slide (hold 1.50 sec), SE (hold 0.50 sec.)
Other skating steps or movements: pivot (0.50 sec.)

JAVIER FERNANDEZ (CoC, IdF)
Crossovers/crossunders (av.): 28
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 33
Total time one-foot skating (steps and turns, av.): 38 secs.
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet: lunge (hold 0.50 secs); SE (hold 1 sec.); IB (hold 1.5 secs); IB (hold 0.50 secs); lunge x 2 (hold 1 sec.)

MIHAIL KOLYADA (CoR, CoC)
Crossovers/crossunders (av.): 31
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 28
Total time one-foot skating (steps and turns, av.): 40.5 secs
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet: rotating knee slide (hold 1 sec), SE (hold 0.80 sec.); lunge > rotating knee slide (hold 1.20 sec.)

JASON BROWN (SC, NHK)
Number of crossovers (av.): 35
Number of turns/revolution/change direction on one foot (av.): 33
Total time one foot skating (av.): 49 secs.
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet.: lunge ( hold 0.50 sec.); IB (hold 0.80 secs); rotating knee slide (hold 1 sec)
Other skating steps or movements: spiral x 2 (hold 0.50 sec.); spiral (hold 4.80 secs.); spiral (hold 1 sec.)

BOYANG JIN (CoC, IdF)
Crossovers (av.): 34
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 29
Total time one-foot skating (steps and turns, av.): 41.50 secs
Skating movements.: lunge (hold 1 sec); IB (hold 1 sec); lunge (hold 0,50 sec); lunge (0.30 sec.)

NATHAN CHEN (CoR, SA)
Crossovers/crossunders (av.): 40
One-foot turn/revolutions/change dir. (av.): 25
Total time one-foot skating (steps and turns, av.): 38.5 secs
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet: SE (hold 1.50 secs); SE (hold 0.30 secs); SE (hold 0.50 secs); lunge x 2 (0.50 sec.), SE (hold: 3.50 secs)

SHOMA UNO (SC, IdF)
Number of crossovers (av.): 52
Number of turns/revolution/change direction on one foot (av.): 25
Total time one foot skating (av.): 40 sec.
Skating movements/ part.TR on two-feet.: SE (hold 2 secs); BS (hold 0.80 sec); SE (hold 1 sec); lunge (hold 0.50 sec.); SE (hold 0.50 secs); lunge (hold 1 sec); cantilever (2 secs)
 
Zemgirl said:
I wasn't aware that Hanyu was going to be at the GPF.

And while good technique can help avoid injuries, it is by no means the only factor. I don't think Mishin taught his skaters poor technique, yet Yagudin left the sport at a young age due to hip problems and Plushenko has had so many surgeries even he might have lost count by now.
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Do you know among Mishin’s students, only Urmanov and Liza had clear take off in the Flip and Lutz.
Look at Yagudin: https://youtu.be/Ru6aKHPf818
Look at Plushenko: https://youtu.be/5JJjIzNOkLk
Or Gachinski: https://youtu.be/xOCE3qrPpTA
 
alilou said:
Kurt acted as if he made it up himself. I think his words were "I call him boing boing", but I distinctly remember reading it on FSU first. I'l see if I can find who it was.
Also I think the original may have happened because of autocorrect.
Click to expand...

Maybe Kurt posts at FSU? :lol:
 
That's why it's good for my mental health to NOT find out so much about your favorite skaters... :shuffle:
 
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With his withdrawal, for both singles disciplines only one of the top 5 finishers at this year's worlds will be in the final. Crazy to think.

skatfan said:
LOL, some of them are. They wear Pooh headbands and throw him Pooh stuffed animals. This is not something new. Did you see the gal at one of his competitions dressed in a duplicate of his LP costume crying her eyes out at the end of his program? :rolleyes:
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I wear a headband. Took all of 5 minutes to find and order on Amazon. What, pray tell, is so different than fans that wear jerseys for their favorite team or player to a game they'll be participating in? :rolleyes::rolleyes: And those pooh bears are sent to local hospitals for kids. How awful!
 
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danibellerika said:
I wear a headband. Took all of 5 minutes to find and order or Amazon. What, pray tell, is so different than fans that wear jerseys for their favorite team or player to a game they'll be participating in? :rolleyes::rolleyes: And those pooh bears are sent to local hospitals for kids. How awful!
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And I found the Pooh ears for you there. They are cute!
 
Meoima said:
Fireovertheice has calculated the amount of transitions and 1 foot skating of top guys. This is the result for your reference.
I would say @MAXSwagg has a point when it comes to TR. These skating moves can be identified and counted. It’s not subjective like interpretation or choreography.
—-
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this very detailed report. It is very interesting!

As to how it pertains to scoring, the issue I see is this: judges do not... and really cannot... sit there and count crossovers, amount of time on one foot, etc. In a four+ minute program (which judges see once and then score immediately) there is almost no difference between Yuzu & Chan's 26 crossovers and Kolyada's 31.

Now, if Shoma has double the crossovers... then yes, it should be noticed and penalized... and probably is... but that in itself, along with all transitions, is just a small percentage of what is being judged as part of PCS, which is why transitions by themselves are not necessarily a PCS dealbreaker.
 
danibellerika said:
With his withdrawal, for both singles disciplines only one of the top 5 finishers at this year's worlds will be in the final. Crazy to think.

My guy cried when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl in 2014. He rewatched that game at least 10 times and cried every time :). That love runs deep.



I wear a headband. Took all of 5 minutes to find and order on Amazon. What, pray tell, is so different than fans that wear jerseys for their favorite team or player to a game they'll be participating in? :rolleyes::rolleyes: And those pooh bears are sent to local hospitals for kids. How awful!
Click to expand...
 
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