2025 Cup of China Free Dance PBP - Grabbing The Bull By The Scores

[thvu]

Twizzles were slow, which describes alot of the program for me. The curve/curve combination lift is a moment though.

I really don't get the interpretation at all, at least not until the end.

You can see how empty this program is throughout. So many hard pushes right before elements. The integration of the elements, the transitions just aren't there. It's strange to say that Zingas & Kolesnik have a more complex program than Chock & Bates, but here we are.

 

[tony]

Yikes.

 

[MacMadame]

I know Evan is supposed to represent the bull but do they know cows can be black too? Because Evan's costume not matching Madi's at all is kind of distracting.

These costumes are both a miss for me.

While, as was pointed out yesterday, twizles can't have zero ice coverage, that second set came pretty darn close! However, they are replaying them right now and I disagree with Tony that they came to a complete stop.

I actually think this program has a lot of potential. I hope they figure it out.

 

[thvu]

10 Points lower than FB&C's FD score from last week. Only beating Zingas & Kolesnik's total comp score by 6 points, and losing TES to them.

 

[Marta24]

Uff. TES below Z/K.

 

[Bunny Hop]

I hope the program grows on me as the season goes on. I agree with others upthread that the skirt was a distraction.

Smart/Dieck need to not f-up the Rhythm Dance next time out, but I'm not sad Lopareva/Brissaud are third.

 

[Braulio]

123 FD yikes!

10 points less than the french last week even with the home inflation but 10 points less?? wow

Laurence better get that passport in time

 

[Kateri]

Winner's interview. Yeah, guys, does this (123 score) give you confidence going into the Olympics?

 

[Karen-W]

LOL - I don't know what people were thinking that ChoBat would get with their scores once the tech panel was known - a French TC and a Canadian TS, but hey, yeah, let's compare to last week's scores.

 

[tony]

While, as was pointed out yesterday, twizles can't have zero ice coverage, that second set came pretty darn close! However, they are replaying them right now and I disagree with Tony that they came to a complete stop.

Her first set completely loses speed and he's the one that is pushing out to get back closer to her. The second set, she gets no ice coverage at all. The end of it [second set] she's basically rotating in place.

https://imgur.com/a/R0uYAoX

 

[NinjaTurtles]

Her costume is amazing and the cape is doing 25-50% of the work here. People are insane to want to change it.

Huge potential, but not there yet. Disappointed with how much they’re reusing from the past. Chock/Bates are quite good at continuous program improvement, so I expect it’ll look different by December/January.

 

[Belsornia]

That seemed like a non-traditional take on Romeo & Juliet, and quite a bit darker throughout than the traditional interpretation.

I’m not a fan of all the mid-twenties Romeos this season, but ZingNik’s interpretation works best for a fully adult team. Bringing out more of the romantic folie à deux, less of the love story kissy face.

 

[Karen-W]

Also - Chris just informed us that GreenP cited an injury from the RD as the reason for their withdrawal. Seems like Michael really hurt himself quite badly when he took that tumble on his twizzles.

 

[chewy]

If you took the skirt away would you get matador and bull? I think no. I also really dislike the lace crotch tights. I don't dislike the flamenco Paint it Black concept but making it matador and bull is too much. It breaks for me when they have to skate together in pairs spin, that wouldn't happen in a bullfight. She needs to kill him more throughout.

 

[thvu]

Her first set completely loses speed and he's the one that is pushing out to get back closer to her. The second set, she gets no ice coverage at all. The end of it she's basically rotating in place.

https://imgur.com/a/R0uYAoX

Which really explains the L2 call, which needs to happen more often. Once she's not actually traveling and is just spinning in place, the rotations stop counting. Good on the panel to actually call it.

 

[MacMadame]

Her first set completely loses speed and he's the one that is pushing out to get back closer to her. The second set, she gets no ice coverage at all. The end of it she's basically rotating in place.

Your own link shows no complete stop in the 1st set. And, again, she doesn't get no ice coverage at all. She gets minimal ice coverage and I would say that this would definitely count as a negative feature (unlike last night).

Sound is working for me.

There is something wrong with my setup. Everyone once in a while, only during skating, the sound volume drops to zero. If I boost it up so I can hear anything, it's impossibly loud when the skating ends.

My husband -- who set the whole system up -- plays "it works for me" tech support about it too. Which is why I am bitching here. Maybe someone will believe me even if he doesn't.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The skirt doesn't work if she's supposed to be the matador: she's not really using it as a cape.. I didn't notice the top of his sleeves in the photo I saw. I take back liking the costume.

 

[tony]

Your own link shows no complete stop in the 1st set. And, again, she doesn't get no ice coverage at all. She gets minimal ice coverage and I would say that this would definitely count as a negative feature (unlike last night).

The fact that she gets pushes from the start and then goes NOWHERE (every single time) is absolutely a criteria that I listed last night to get negative GOE. This is how she always does twizzles. Nothing new.

Again, the exact criteria:
8. Lacking or reducing speed of rotation and/or speed across the ice

 

[Bunny Hop]

Only beating Zingas & Kolesnik's total comp score by 6 points, and losing TES to them.

Smart/Dieck also beat them on TES, albeit by less than half a point but still I wouldn't normally expect that.

If you took the skirt away would you get matador and bull?

The skirt could be shorter and that concept would still be there. If it came to the back of her knees in length it would still give the look she wants and still be flowy enough to show off and use as part of the interpretation.

 

[annie_mg]

I think it's unfair of the judges to suddenly start scoring Chock and Bates fairly just because Cizeron is back, when they have been giving them gifts for the last 3 years. It's good, but it's ridiculous.

 

[tony]

I think it's unfair of the judges to suddenly start scoring Chock and Bates fairly just because Cizeron is back, when they have been giving them gifts for the last 3 years. It's good, but it's ridiculous.

This was a super rough outing in both programs which is normal for their start to the season, but they got the ! call in assisted lifts to start the program, the L2 twizzle for her which as @thvu mentioned almost certainly has to do with them deciding she stopped moving outwards in that second set, and the L2 straight line lift. Some judges STILL opted for +4 on the twizzle and diagonal step that was so sloppy.

PCS is still mostly 9.50 even though they were way messier than what G&F showed last week, and people seemed to proclaim those big drop in PCS (from their usual ~9.25 to even getting some 8.00's) was warranted.

 

[skatingguy]

Free Dance Protocols

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Erm, has someone given them a plush missile to hold in the Kiss and Cry???

ETA: Apparently yes, a DF-61 intercontinental ballistic missile was unveiled this year in China. Um, okay.

Reddit is calling for ISU to ban them…the skaters.

 

[Private Citizen]

Somehow I missed that Chock and Bates's tango was "Paint it Black." Granted, I didn't think traditional tango would have suited them, but the music seems like a strange choice. Agree on the costume needing to go. Maybe a much shorter version of it could work?

They're always messy in the early season. Does the program work as a concept? I'm not sure. Maybe they can dial up the story-driven pieces of the program to make them more obvious, as they did in the snake or the alien/astronaut.

I had hoped for more for an Olympic season / grand finale to their career. I like it better than Fear/Gibson (too many music cuts) or Guignard/Fabbri (too slow and ponderous), but that isn't saying much.

 

[Skaterbob]

IAM set up Chock and Bates to fail with this program on purpose. Anyone saying to keep this costume (the skirt) are all trying to ruin their chances to even medal because there was about 3 different chances in the program for Evan to skate on it and down they will go. This is a complete exhibition program not a program for competition. The music is horrible. Everything about this is horrible. I know I am going on no sleep but holy hell this was trash. The "wind and fire" program was a dumpster in the fall and ended up great by Worlds but they had to reworked so much of it. This will have to have the same treatment.

 

[annie_mg]

I personally find the skirt idea brilliant. They were looking to create impressions and images with it, to have a wow effect.

But it's not working out the way they want it to, yet.

 

[cholla]

Somehow I missed that Chock and Bates's tango was "Paint it Black." Granted, I didn't think traditional tango would have suited them, but the music seems like a strange choice.

Isn't it supposed to be Flamenco ? I know there is some tango/flamenco but I see no tango here.

 

[Karen-W]

Isn't it supposed to be Flamenco ? I know there is some tango/flamenco but I see no tango here.

It is just a flamenco. Some folks on X have pointed out that if they wanted to bring the bull/matador or matador/cape concept into the program then they should have gone with a paso doble, which is fair. But definitely no tango here.

 

[MacMadame]

The fact that she gets pushes from the start and then goes NOWHERE (every single time) is absolutely a criteria that I listed last night to get negative GOE. This is how she always does twizzles. Nothing new.

Again, the exact criteria:
8. Lacking or reducing speed of rotation and/or speed across the ice

You said they came to a complete stop in the first two sets of twizzles. Slowing down is not a "complete stop." You also said you didn't care what we think about your opinion on their twizzles.

You bitch about how other people don't apply the written criteria when complaining about performances, but then you say things about this couple that just aren't true. If you had said that their twizzles sucked because they slowed down too much on the first set and stopped forward rotation on the second, that would have been true and educational.

 

[tony]

You said they came to a complete stop in the first two sets of twizzles. Slowing down is not a "complete stop." You also said you didn't care what we think about your opinion on their twizzles.

You bitch about how other people don't apply the written criteria when complaining about performances, but then you say things about this couple that just aren't true. If you had said that their twizzles sucked because they slowed down too much on the first set and stopped forward rotation on the second, that would have been true and educational.

She does come to a stop on those twizzles in that she's not moving outward AT ALL!

Do you literally think I meant she stopped rotating and stood at center ice? Come on.

And she does this all the time, I've said there's a complete stop in momentum for how long now? And not many people find it 'educational'.