2025-26 U.S. Ice Dance News, Updates & Discussion - Backstreet Boys & Spice Girls

[Willin]

@Bigbird I can't speak for how the coaches thought of their comeback, but the coaching decision is interesting.

Alex was in Michigan for a while, possibly helping with MIDA for a bit, and yet they didn't end up training there - an odd choice given Michigan is their native state, Charlie is their former training mate, and there's just a lot more ice dance infrastructure there. Perhaps Maia refused to move, perhaps Alex wanted more control than they'd get.

Marina is supposedly mostly retired. We've seen her at the boards and choreographing, but it's clear she's not coaching full time. The Shibutani family supported her quite a bit in Michigan. It may be that despite that she wanted to stay retired. It could also be that she didn't want to move to California and they didn't want to move to Florida. So it's not surprising she's not there.

Massimo is very busy in the Bay Area - he's not even with Alysa every day. He shares coaching duties between three rinks (SJ, Fremont, Oakland + occasionally others) with plenty of students, is doing choreography for skaters and teams across North America, and has a social life. He doesn't have time (or likely money) to be going to LA on a weekly basis.

I think to me training in LA in general is just so weird. As I said above, there's no real coach in SoCal that can help them train to the level they want to be at. There's few if any international ice dance judges who live in SoCal to help them. Then there's the rink they're training at. It's not bad or anything, but it's also not a huge training center with well connected coaches, judges dropping in, or international competitors in any discipline. While you can succeed training out of small rinks it's much better to not be an isolated big fish in a small pond - especially in a discipline so political as ice dance. Having that feedback and pressure of a major training center makes you a better skater.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's pretty clear they wanted to do this privately, not to have people dropping in, so the rink they've chosen would have met their preferences, had the rink management not enabled the streaming option.

 

[Allskate]

They don't have a coach in a traditional sense. In fact there aren't really any Junior/Senior level ice dance coaches in Southern California. The closest would be in NorCal, but that's only a handful and those coaches have only had success developing skaters - not actually having them compete at the highest level.

They're trying to tele-coach a la Nathan Chen. Marina is still in Florida and Massimo is in the Bay Area. Massimo is very busy so I can't imagine he's down there much. Marina I have no clue.

This isn't like the situation with Nathan. Nathan hadn't stopped skating for years, and during the Olympic season he wasn't away at school. Also, putting together a program for ice dance and getting it ready for competition seems a bit different from what singles skaters do. It's nutty the way they are approaching this, even when you don't take into account how Alex treats Maia.

I don't know how they thought that this would work well. Maybe that's part of the narcissism?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Chen also had a lot more experience with Zoom coaching, having worked through many of the kinks when it was the only option.

 

[VGThuy]

Having a real ice dance coach could have at least solved the rocker issue and whatever concerns both of them had about it real quick or hopefully could have prevented Alex from losing it and escalating the situation to vitriolic levels towards his skating partner and sister… on the ice. Key word for the last clause was “hopefully”.

 

[Willin]

It's pretty clear they wanted to do this privately, not to have people dropping in, so the rink they've chosen would have met their preferences, had the rink management not enabled the streaming option.

Given the video, it's no wonder they wanted to do it privately and away from others. Alex seems he'd be terrible to work with. While perhaps his behavior would've been acceptable 7 years ago, now it would've faced much more scrutiny.

IAM, MIDA, and WASA have private ice they could've practiced on and made that comeback in a private manner. They could've had the same in Oakland or Florida. But in the presence of other elite skaters, Alex's attitude as displayed here would've been a problem. I know Oakland's adult skaters and club are very protective of the skaters and they would not have stood to see how he was acting.

Ironically, one wonders if this behavior would've gotten out if they were doing things more traditionally. No one is watching IAM or MIDA's livebarn feeds waiting for something to happen - if they even allow them to be on. I'm not sure WASA even has a livebarn for all their ice surfaces. If they'd done shows and Champs Camp as well I think there would be less mystery causing that level of curiousity.

This isn't like the situation with Nathan. Nathan hadn't stopped skating for years, and during the Olympic season he wasn't away at school. Also, putting together a program for ice dance and getting it ready for competition seems a bit different from what singles skaters do. It's nutty the way they are approaching this, even when you don't take into account how Alex treats Maia.

I don't know how they thought that this would work well. Maybe that's part of the narcissism?

I've been saying this from the start - Nathan was just about the only one who ever succeeded with video coaching, and there's probably a number of reasons why. I know one reason Adam and Ashley raised was that Raf essentially trains his skaters to train themselves, so Nathan probably had a very good training routine going even across the country.

And even then he went back to in person for the Olympics.

 

[VGThuy]

Speaking of narcissism, I don’t think Alex was the only one who wanted a comeback but I think he was the driver of how they went about it. The way he spoke to her clearly shows he thinks he can do no wrong and he’d be the reason they’d make it to the Olympics if they do.

 

[On My Own]

I don't know how they thought that this would work well. Maybe that's part of the narcissism?

This info is all so strange tbh.

As for the rest of the discussion - just find it hard to believe Maia wouldn't know what she was getting herself into... tbh, there used to be a lot of gossip about both of them on twitter. I'm sure it got rehashed when they announced their comeback. How much people believe and about which part of the team is upto their own discretion.

 

[angi]

As for the rest of the discussion - just find it hard to believe Maia wouldn't know what she was getting herself into...

Seven years can go a long way in making someone forget, or at least downplay just how bad things were in the past.
It is possible she wanted the comeback and hoped things would work out better now that they are both much older, it's possible that she felt pressured to come back from both Alex and perhaps her family, and it's possible she, too, wanted to reboot their brand so she can have solo opportunities post-Olympics. We obviously can't know for sure, but between past rumors, what his ex-girlfriend disclosed about him, and his behavior in this video, it's a pretty safe bet that this toxic behavior is not a one-off.
And I would also assume that their situation is worsened by the seclusion they are forcing upon themselves. They are basically spending their days alone, feeling tons of pressure and frustration, with no one around them to de-escalate the situation when tension rises (or at least no one who can at least make them feel uncomfortable to behave that way around them).

 

[On My Own]

In those seven years, apparently, Maia forgot that her brother is a misogynist, to the point there were rumours about how he abused his gf. And also chose to work with him after cancer treatment, because apparently that's the level of pressure she was facing.

I'm not buying it. It's not going to happen on this website, but it'd be great if for once we thought an adult woman had her own discretion.

 

[angi]

In those seven years, apparently, Maia forgot that her brother is a misogynist, to the point there were rumours about how he abused his gf. And also chose to work with him after cancer treatment, because apparently that's the level of pressure she was facing.

I'm not buying it. It's not going to happen on this website, but it'd be great if for once we thought an adult woman had her own discretion.

It has nothing to do with her being an adult woman. Adult women who suffer abuse make suboptimal decisions due to the impact of said abuse. And to ignore the family aspect of this partnership is absurd. It's not like this is a partner she skated with 7 years ago and was apart from since then, and all of a sudden she chose to come back. Her entire identity as have been displayed over the years, has been part of the "Shibs sibs" brand. Almost every business opportunity they had for over a decade was about their brand as siblings. Her livelihood and her career are completely entangled with his in a way that is much worse than "regular" partners, and it makes her situation way more complicated than most partnerships. Even if she wants to dissolve the partnership, this is her brother, she can't just walk away. She will see him regardless of skating, and she will face pressure or abuse regardless of the partnership.

 

[Badams]

I feel bad for both of the Shibutani's. It's obvious this is all he is. An ice dancer. While he's accomplished way more than anyone I know, Olympic wise... What else does he have? There's a lot of failure to go around here. Obviously failure to be a decent human on his part. But failure of his parents to guide their children passed figure skating. And Failure to parent their children to be good people. Failure of the Usfsa to keep this behavior in check, but to also help these athletes successfully move passed the sport. This is like the definition of not moving passed your glory days, but being exposed as not at all glorious.

 

[Kateri]

It has nothing to do with her being an adult woman. Adult women who suffer abuse make suboptimal decisions due to the impact of said abuse. And to ignore the family aspect of this partnership is absurd. It's not like this is a partner she skated with 7 years ago and was apart from since then, and all of a sudden she chose to come back. Her entire identity as have been displayed over the years, has been part of the "Shibs sibs" brand. Almost every business opportunity they had for over a decade was about their brand as siblings. Her livelihood and her career are completely entangled with his in a way that is much worse than "regular" partners, and it makes her situation way more complicated than most partnerships. Even if she wants to dissolve the partnership, this is her brother, she can't just walk away. She will see him regardless of skating, and she will face pressure or abuse regardless of the partnership.

And if, as people are saying, that is their mother in the background, doing absolutely nothing to defend her, this has been her "normal" for her entire life.

 

[On My Own]

Adult women who suffer abuse make suboptimal decisions due to the impact of said abuse.

And now you're insinuating she's been abused by her brother based on what? A video clip?

Tell me where it is you're getting that she just forgot what kind of a person her brother is in the last seven years, and then we'll talk. And that applies to the people now apparently calling their mother an abuse-enabler.

 

[VGThuy]

In those seven years, apparently, Maia forgot that her brother is a misogynist, to the point there were rumours about how he abused his gf. And also chose to work with him after cancer treatment, because apparently that's the level of pressure she was facing.

I'm not buying it. It's not going to happen on this website, but it'd be great if for once we thought an adult woman had her own discretion.

I’m not one to infantilize women, but that video raised real flags for me that indicates conditioned behavior. Regarding your post denigrating the culture of this board, well, some of us who are reacting negatively to the way Maia has been treated are adult women, and many of us had to toughen up as we deal with mistreatment while being blamed or given little understanding for how we react to other people’s bad behavior towards us. So just like how you think it’d be nice for us to treat Maia like an adult woman who has full agency because you respect women way more than the rest us, it’d be nice that “for once”, our reactions to this situation can be at least given some respect even if your take is different. We all viewed the same video, so our takes are just as valid as yours.

 

[angi]

And now you're insinuating she's been abused by her brother based on what? A video clip?

Can you tell me in which family dynamics it is normal to call your sibling an idiot and a ****ing bitch, and gaslight them into thinking they have a weak mind, and that any success that comes is despite them and not because of them?
His behavior in the video falls under verbal and emotional abuse, and his words and actions are identical to those his ex-girlfriend described when she blamed him of being emotionally abusive towards her. There's no mystery here.

Tell me where it is you're getting that she just forgot what kind of a person her brother is in the last seven years, and then we'll talk.

I never said she forgot what type of person he is, I said that it's very possible she either hoped things had changed or decided to come back despite knowing exactly who he is and how he is likely to behave.

 

[hoptoad]

Just wondering, what did Alex or Maia study while/after skating? Their Wikipedia entries both say they started at U Michigan. Did either graduate?

 

[VGThuy]

Can you tell me in which family dynamics it is normal to call your sibling an idiot and a ****ing bitch, and gaslight them into thinking they have a weak mind, and that any success that comes is despite them and not because of them?
His behavior in the video falls under verbal and emotional abuse, and his words and actions are identical to those his ex-girlfriend described when she blamed him of being emotionally abusive towards her. There's no mystery here.


I never said she forgot what type of person he is, I said that it's very possible she either hoped things had changed or decided to come back despite knowing exactly who he is and how he is likely to behave.

To add another point, all one has to do is read about the cycle of abuse to understand a possible reason why Maia may have returned.

Here’s why I think it’s reasonable to at least ponder why this could be the situation.

First, it’s not like she carved out a life outside of being with Alex these past 7 years. They always seem to be together and every professional or non-skating accomplishment she has shared publicly has been with Alex. It may not be all she’s done, but those seem to be the only things she did worth sharing, which indicates her life is still very much intertwined with his. Second, the fact that their mom is there and they speak to her as if they expect her to mediate like they’re both still children instead of adults in their 30s tells me there’s still some sort of dependency there.

Maia may have wanted to come back too and made her decision to do so since her career probably didn’t end on her terms. However, that motivation could be an added reason as to why she is willing to take this treatment rather than serve as a counter-argument to the reasons why she seems conditioned to take it.

And rather than scoff at the notion that some are worried there may be abusive behavior from Alex, we can all acknowledge that there are many cases in the world of familial abuse between siblings with parents enabling one sibling’s bad behavior towards another, which one can see in the video (not have to see but can see).

Add in age and gender dynamics into it, and it just adds more fuel to that fire. Even if you ignore the latter part because it’s too woke or only paints women as victims or whatever, the other factors still point to a very unsavory situation.

Again, not everyone has to agree with that take, but it is very reasonable and, a logical step, to come away with that impression.

 

[Allskate]

And rather than scoff at the notion that some are worried there may be abusive behavior from Alex, we can all acknowledge that there are many cases in the world of familial abuse between siblings with parents enabling one sibling’s bad behavior towards another, which one can see in the video (not have to see but can see).

Absolutely. Been there. I'm very glad that I learned to remove myself from that kind of toxic behavior. But, I can see all sorts of reasons why it would be more difficult for Maia to do something similar.

 

[Willin]

Just wondering, what did Alex or Maia study while/after skating? Their Wikipedia entries both say they started at U Michigan. Did either graduate?

Not sure if either graduated.

Alex has been doing photography and appears to be trying to make that into a career. I'm less clear on what Maia's been doing. They also dabbled in children's book writing.

 

[On My Own]

Can you tell me in which family dynamics it is normal to call your sibling an idiot and a ****ing bitch, and gaslight them into thinking they have a weak mind, and that any success that comes is despite them and not because of them?

Can you tell me where I call this "normal"?

I'm asking you where exactly this means that Alex abuses his sister. Or that their mother enables it. It's one clip.

And no matter how many reasons posters here write about it and call it logical to say whatever it is they believe is logical, a single clip is all it is. You're making far too much of a leap, in my view, to be arriving at some of your conclusions, no matter how logical and obvious you might find them.

And my question stands. Maia would know if her brother is an abuser, and what he supposedly did to his girlfriend. Yet she chooses to work with him. Why? If all that's true, does that absolve her of anything and everything?

Some of your entire points here are that she can't do anything, she can't escape, she - whatever. I'm simply saying, that maybe she herself adds to that family dynamic - as in, she chooses to work with a supposed abuser of another woman, who's supposedly known to be a misogynist. That you're now immediately including her as the victim based on a total of one clip, and even coming up with theories that their mother enables it all - none of which comes from herself, unlike the accusations from the supposed gf - and immediately also excluding the possibility that she's perfectly fine with it all, perfectly fine with working with her brother despite him supposedly abusing another woman - is strange to me. She's bound to have known. And she's a grown-ass woman.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Sadly, your comment becomes even more prescient:

Damn. I am not one to cancel everyone immediately, but there is no excuses for this behavior. Alex is a 30-year-old man. Do the bare effing minimum and treat your sister with respect.

Good Lord, is that real? And who is the coach over on the side?

She should’ve pulled out her hip flask.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I’ve only made it to one minute and 30 seconds and I’m disgusted, this goes on for 11 minutes? I can’t.

 

[Alilou]

Good Lord, is that real? And who is the coach over on the side?

She should’ve pulled out her hip flask.

It's real, and the "coach" is their mother.

 

[PRlady]

Can you tell me where I call this "normal"?

I'm asking you where exactly this means that Alex abuses his sister. Or that their mother enables it. It's one clip.

And no matter how many reasons posters here write about it and call it logical to say whatever it is they believe is logical, a single clip is all it is. You're making far too much of a leap, in my view, to be arriving at some of your conclusions, no matter how logical and obvious you might find them.

And my question stands. Maia would know if her brother is an abuser, and what he supposedly did to his girlfriend. Yet she chooses to work with him. Why? If all that's true, does that absolve her of anything and everything?

Some of your entire points here are that she can't do anything, she can't escape, she - whatever. I'm simply saying, that maybe she herself adds to that family dynamic - as in, she chooses to work with a supposed abuser of another woman, who's supposedly known to be a misogynist. That you're now immediately including her as the victim based on a total of one clip, and even coming up with theories that their mother enables it all - none of which comes from herself, unlike the accusations from the supposed gf - and immediately also excluding the possibility that she's perfectly fine with it all, perfectly fine with working with her brother despite him supposedly abusing another woman - is strange to me. She's bound to have known. And she's a grown-ass woman.

You know, on this one you really should take a seat. This really is a woman thing in terms of both family and professional dynamics. There’s 40 minutes of footage like this and two dozen women here who know what they are seeing and have posted as much.

“Perfectly fine with it all,” if true, would actually be more evidence of a dangerously lopsided power equation.

 

[VGThuy]

Can you tell me where I call this "normal"?

I'm asking you where exactly this means that Alex abuses his sister. Or that their mother enables it. It's one clip.

And no matter how many reasons posters here write about it and call it logical to say whatever it is they believe is logical, a single clip is all it is. You're making far too much of a leap, in my view, to be arriving at some of your conclusions, no matter how logical and obvious you might find them.

And my question stands. Maia would know if her brother is an abuser, and what he supposedly did to his girlfriend. Yet she chooses to work with him. Why? If all that's true, does that absolve her of anything and everything?

Some of your entire points here are that she can't do anything, she can't escape, she - whatever. I'm simply saying, that maybe she herself adds to that family dynamic - as in, she chooses to work with a supposed abuser of another woman, who's supposedly known to be a misogynist. That you're now immediately including her as the victim based on a total of one clip, and even coming up with theories that their mother enables it all - none of which comes from herself, unlike the accusations from the supposed gf - and immediately also excluding the possibility that she's perfectly fine with it all, perfectly fine with working with her brother despite him supposedly abusing another woman - is strange to me. She's bound to have known. And she's a grown-ass woman.

I honestly don’t even know where to begin with this, so maybe I shouldn’t. See ya.

 

[On My Own]

“Perfectly fine with it all,” if true, would actually be more evidence of a dangerously lopsided power equation.

I'm perfectly okay with you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, but where are we getting 40 minutes of footage like this? The clip posted is 11 minutes long. Was all forty minutes of that footage watched by the people commenting?

I get why others are saying what they are, I do, and I also get it's a woman's thing. I'll not be experiencing some of those things. But whether someone can make a judgment based on one eleven minute long clip, though, no. Call it whatever from me you like.

 

[tony]

I'm perfectly okay with you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, but where are we getting 40 minutes of footage like this? The clip posted is 11 minutes long. Was all forty minutes of that footage watched by the people commenting?

I get why others are saying what they are, I do, and I also get it's a woman's thing. I'll not be experiencing some of those things. But whether someone can make a judgment based on one eleven minute long clip, though, no. Call it whatever from me you like.

We haven't seen more than the 11 minutes out in the open. I suspect some people here, based on comments, do either subscribe to Dave's Patreon or have access via their friends, so maybe they have.

But anyways based on some of his comments from the video we do have, you can see that this wasn't a 0 to 100 explosion that came out of nowhere. I think he even says he 'can't keep doing this' and something about how they talk in the car and then she doesn't want to do anything once they get on the ice, or whatever he said. You can see his body language and his tensing of the shoulders at least 4 or 5 times as he otherwise gets in her face. He goes and skates around huffing and puffing, calls her a fcuking bitch, and later slams his hat down on the ice while he looks like he's ready to pounce.

Most importantly in all of it, the fact that their mother stands by and doesn't do anything at all says that this isn't new. (I hope) she'd be whooping his ass or telling him to otherwise shut up if it were, but instead it seems like this is par for the course and it just goes on.

This isn't a sudden breaking point.

 

[BittyBug]

To add another point, all one has to do is read about the cycle of abuse to understand a possible reason why Maia may have returned.

Here’s why I think it’s reasonable to at least ponder why this could be the situation.

First, it’s not like she carved out a life outside of being with Alex these past 7 years. They always seem to be together and every professional or non-skating accomplishment she has shared publicly has been with Alex. It may not be all she’s done, but those seem to be the only things she did worth sharing, which indicates her life is still very much intertwined with his. Second, the fact that their mom is there and they speak to her as if they expect her to mediate like they’re both still children instead of adults in their 30s tells me there’s still some sort of dependency there.

I'll add one more dimension, which is that people who are emotionally abused often lose their identity and sense of self-worth, and can develop a sort of Stockholm syndrome, in which they want to please their abuser because their sense of self becomes dependent on trying to win their abuser's approval. I have no idea if this is applicable in this instance, but it would not be unusual the victim in an abusive relationships to have their life completely subjugated to their abuser.

 

[Rukia]

One thing I want to make perfectly clear: you are not weak if you are a victim of abuse. You didn't "ask for it" or deserve it even if you willingly agreed to participate in this activity with your abuser. Calling it by it's name doesn't infantilize Maia. Yes she is an adult woman. Yes she has agency. She still doesn't deserve to be treated like this and it is in no way her fault. Even if she has been an active participant in this comeback. Even if she knows how her brother will react to things. She is still a victim. The dynamics around this situation are so complicated, but it doesn't change the facts. If it happens one time or 1000 times, it doesn't change what it is.