2025-26 U.S. Ice Dance News, Updates & Discussion - Backstreet Boys & Spice Girls

[Willin]

@tony Regardless of what feedback they get behind the scenes - and they're not skating at a rink where there will be a lot of eyes or feedback - it's nowhere near as valuable as competition.

You keep defending that "we don't know what kind of feedback" they are getting. And, sure, we don't. But we also know what kind of feedback they aren't getting, and it's some of the most important by far: an international competition judging panel judging in an actual competition and Champs Camp review. They aren't getting regular high level coaching feedback (Scali is booked and busy between Oakland, SF, and Fremont/SJ and Marina is still in Florida) and there aren't ANY high level ice dance coaches in LA. And while Nathan Chen did telecoaching, how many more skaters have we seen fail at it? There are a few judges in SoCal, but they don't live within a reasonable regular drive to the rink the ShibSibs are training at. Meanwhile places like WASA, MIDA, and IAM have easily accessible judges.

We shouldn't discount the crowd and competition environment too. No matter how seasoned you are it's easy to be nervous at a competition or overwhelmed by the atmosphere of the crowd. I'd imagine it will be even weirder after 7 years - and now that skating is regaining enough popularity that even Senior B's have more than just friends and family in the stands.

So yeah, we don't know exactly what feedback they're getting, but it's nothing close to what the other top teams are getting.

 

[Rukia]

But…. may you be influenced by the brand new inclusion of some lovely assisted lifts, slide movements, and character steps?

idk if dave has any other footage he hasn't posted but that twizzle sequnce is the exact same as before lol (I get your point but I don't think it will be too different than before but also this is just a wee bit so i could be completely wrong)

 

[tony]

@tony

You keep defending that "we don't know what kind of feedback" they are getting. And, sure, we don't. But we also know what kind of feedback they aren't getting, and it's some of the most important by far: an international competition judging panel judging in an actual competition and Champs Camp review.

And they may very likely get that feedback in the Grand Prix?

Guignard and Fabbri tanked with their programs last season, fell off the World podium, and they don’t have any events lined up before the Grand Prix either. Regardless of whether they were active last year or not, they also would potentially have a lot at stake.

And while Nathan Chen did telecoaching, how many more skaters have we seen fail at it? There are a few judges in SoCal, but they don't live within a reasonable regular drive to the rink the ShibSibs are training at. Meanwhile places like WASA, MIDA, and IAM have easily accessible judges.

We shouldn't discount the crowd and competition environment too. No matter how seasoned you are it's easy to be nervous at a competition or overwhelmed by the atmosphere of the crowd. I'd imagine it will be even weirder after 7 years - and now that skating is regaining enough popularity that even Senior B's have more than just friends and family in the stands.

So yeah, we don't know exactly what feedback they're getting, but it's nothing close to what the other top teams are getting.

But this is still all a bunch of ‘this is what I think’. I don’t know how nervous they will or won’t be. I don’t know who from USFS has consulted with them and who is monitoring them. And most importantly, I simply don’t know how they look.

What I do foresee that they either score really well and send most of this board into nuclear mode, or the opposite where they score mid and then there’s a bunch SEE I KNEW IT with not much in between. I’ll just wait for the skating, whenever it is they decide to show up.

 

[Tinycities]

I think the issue with the feedback at the Grand Prix line of thinking is that each Grand Prix is directly against both Green/Parsons and Zingas/kolesnik both who will have already competed this season and are their direct competitors for the third spot. Both will also skate after them not before. Waiting for feedback at this point might not be the smartest idea.

 

[angi]

Guignard and Fabbri tanked with their programs last season, fell off the World podium, and they don’t have any events lined up before the Grand Prix either. Regardless of whether they were active last year or not, they also would potentially have a lot at stake.

That's actually heavily discussed in other threads, and the consensus is that it's a very questionable decision on their part, considering how the previous season went for them. Then again, they received feedback throughout the entire last season, and other than changing their costumes, they ignored it entirely.
And similarly, I think questioning the Shibs decision is also reasonable, especially when they will be entering the very competitive US dance field and will be fighting some very deserving teams who've been working very hard since the Shibs stepped away from competition. The footage is at least suggesting they are training their programs, which is great, but even that is done in an empty rink, likely so they won't be spotted.

 

[tony]

I think the issue with the feedback at the Grand Prix line of thinking is that each Grand Prix is directly against both Green/Parsons and Zingas/kolesnik both who will have already competed this season and are their direct competitors for the third spot. Both will also skate after them not before. Waiting for feedback at this point might not be the smartest idea.

And similarly, I think questioning the Shibs decision is also reasonable, especially when they will be entering the very competitive US dance field and will be fighting some very deserving teams who've been working very hard since the Shibs stepped away from competition. The footage is at least suggesting they are training their programs, which is great, but even that is done in an empty rink, likely so they won't be spotted.

However, from the tone of most posts and most of the reaction of their comeback, people don't seem to want them to do well anyways. So is there some worry that even without feedback or the supposed norm of 'building up scores from Challenger to GP to Nationals to Olympics' that they will overtake the teams?

Otherwise, I don't know why most wouldn't be delighted at their starting in the Grand Prix, seemingly having little to not feedback, and so on.

 

[litenkyckling]

Let Me Clear My Throat is a good song; nice to have some 90s DC representation.

Would be fun if it’s a Bring It On themed RD.

However Bring It On wouldn’t be a 90s theme…

 

[angi]

However, from the tone of most posts and most of the reaction of their comeback, people don't seem to want them to do well anyways. So is there some worry that even without feedback or the supposed norm of 'building up scores from Challenger to GP to Nationals to Olympics' that they will overtake the teams?

Otherwise, I don't know why most wouldn't be delighted at their starting in the Grand Prix, seemingly having little to not feedback, and so on.

I don't think that's necessarily fair or true. I can only speak for myself, and I've been highly critical of their return, but it's not that I don't want them to succeed, it's that I am concerned they will not be judged on what they produce on the ice.
If they come back with strong material, skate clean, have great edge work, and appear better than CPom, Z/K, and G/P, then they will deserve a spot on the team, and it will be undeniable. But if they come back and recycle everything they did 7 years ago without even a hint of progress or development, skate mediocrally, and still get a spot on the team due to name recognition and USFS support? Then people will be rightfully upset, especially given how deserving the US top dance teams are, and that's my main concern, and how I'm interpreting what other people are saying about their comeback.

 

[tony]

I don't think that's necessarily fair or true. I can only speak for myself, and I've been highly critical of their return, but it's not that I don't want them to succeed, it's that I am concerned they will not be judged on what they produce on the ice.
If they come back with strong material, skate clean, have great edge work, and appear better than CPom, Z/K, and G/P, then they will deserve a spot on the team, and it will be undeniable. But if they come back and recycle everything they did 7 years ago without even a hint of progress or development, skate mediocrally, and still get a spot on the team due to name recognition and USFS support? Then people will be rightfully upset, especially given how deserving the US top dance teams are, and that's my main concern, and how I'm interpreting what other people are saying about their comeback.

I think most everyone would be upset by that, but the point still remains IMO that we don't know how they look. We don't know what the programs look like and whether Fix You is a 2.0 version complete with the many rule changes since 2016-- which they would have to do at a minimum. The comments about them came long before the clip of Fix You, too, so that's just a new layer as of today.

If they are doing the Grand Prix, I'm not so sure international judges would be so giddy to throw out high scores 'just because', even if clearly not deserved. Their Grand Prix events are stacked as it is, too. It's just so many hypotheticals before we even get a real look at them.

 

[Willin]

I think the issue with the feedback at the Grand Prix line of thinking is that each Grand Prix is directly against both Green/Parsons and Zingas/kolesnik both who will have already competed this season and are their direct competitors for the third spot. Both will also skate after them not before. Waiting for feedback at this point might not be the smartest idea.

This is the issue.

Based on the current selection criteria, they have 0 points. To get a spot on the team with the criteria (and Senior B's count for that - so skipping them is a missed opportunity for selection points), they need to blow the other US #3 teams out of the water on the grand prix. With more feedback I could see the Shibs doing that. Without feedback they're shooting themselves in the foot.

If they came back a year earlier, did Senior Bs, etc. they wouldn't have to worry about being perfect in both grand prixs. Now they do, and even then it may not be enough to get them on the team without more body of work points.

And, @tony I'm not rooting for them to fail. If they get there fair and square they can make it. I just don't think that between the bizarre and misguided comeback decision-making that they will deserve to make it. It's on them to prove me wrong.

 

[Karen-W]

But this is still all a bunch of ‘this is what I think’. I don’t know how nervous they will or won’t be. I don’t know who from USFS has consulted with them and who is monitoring them. And most importantly, I simply don’t know how they look.

What's clear from @Willin's post is that there aren't that many high-level ice dance experts in southern California who can just take a morning or afternoon off to drive to their rink and check them out to provide feedback. If the monitoring they're receiving involves Justin Dillon or anyone else flying in from another part of the country, then I question how wise a use of the limited funds the USFS has this is when we do have a plethora of other teams who are quite capable of a top 10 finish in Milano.

I'd be feeling differently about this comeback had the Shibs been at Champs Camp or entered in any early fall Challenger/Sr Bs just to shake the competition rust off. I feel the same way about their comeback as I do about Sui/Han's in pairs. There can be all the reports about their training or the leaked training footage but until I see them set foot on competitive ice, I question whether or not it's nothing more than a vanity project that may or may not actually happen.

 

[Kateri]

But…. may you be influenced by the brand new inclusion of some lovely assisted lifts, slide movements, and character steps?

Only if the characters in the step are Chris and Gwyneth acting out their divorce.

 

[Rukia]

I hate to venture an opinion based on practice footage that was very clearly not meant to be put out there, but like it appears there is some level of legit training going on. I do not think they are going to go out there and get like last place at a gp based on that footage.

I still think they should have done some earlier comps though lol. I contain legions.

 

[Rukia]

Only if the characters in the step are Chris and Gwyneth acting out their divorce.

they gently consciously uncouple throughout the sequence then maia starts a wellness brand right on one of the judges' computers

 

[angi]

I think most everyone would be upset by that, but the point still remains IMO that we don't know how they look. We don't know what the programs look like and whether Fix You is a 2.0 version complete with the many rule changes since 2016-- which they would have to do at a minimum. The comments about them came long before the clip of Fix You, too, so that's just a new layer as of today.

I mean, when they announced their comeback, many people were joking that they wondered which Coldplay song they would use this time. I think no one really expected them to actually skate to Coldplay again, so the added layer from today is understandable. It's also not helping that in the clip, they were performing the exact same twizzles sequence as they did in their 2018 FD. And when you compare it to the other US dance teams that they will fight for a spot, those teams have been continuously pushing themselves and being innovative with their material, and really pushing themselves technically as well.
So yes, we have not officially seen them skate even for a minute since they announced their comeback, but what we do know (either missing Champ Camps or getting special treatment there, not doing any challenger or a senior B, likely going for a Fix You 2.0) is not making people optmistic, and I don't think it's an unreasonable reaction to all of these.

 

[Kateri]

they gently consciously uncouple throughout the sequence then maia starts a wellness brand right on one of the judges' computers

Please stop making my joke so scarily plausible

 

[kwanfan1818]

Even with Sui/Han in Pairs, at least Sui has been training seriously for the last season or two, and S/H were Olympic Silver medalists in 2018 by a whisker and Olympic champions four years ago. The system hadn't changed as much in Pairs as it has in Dance, with multiple choreo feelz elements and -5/+5 GOE. I'm not sure if the change to 4-minute frees is a plus or minus. The lack of top-level/expected medalist Russian teams would have been a change for a Sui/Han comeback, while the Shibs were competing more directly with other US teams, with Bobrova/Soloviev not a real threat at that point.

 

[Karen-W]

they gently consciously uncouple throughout the sequence then maia starts a wellness brand right on one of the judges' computers

Can we then have Alex later outing a sekret affair by pointing to a couple kissing on the arena jumbotron?

 

[Willin]

I hate to venture an opinion based on practice footage that was very clearly not meant to be put out there, but like it appears there is some level of legit training going on. I do not think they are going to go out there and get like last place at a gp based on that footage.

I still think they should have done some earlier comps though lol. I contain legions.

I've never worried they'll look so out of practice. Out of stamina, yes, but out of practice no. Their basics are excellent. I do think they may struggle when it comes to the rule changes and stylistic changes, and stamina will be an issue.

So I think they won't be last, but I also don't anticipate seeing them on podiums with teams that are built and trained for this new era of dance.

 

[Debbie S]

I find it bizarre that the Shibs would make a comeback and talk about showing how they've grown (or something like that) in their time off, and then skate a program they did 10 years ago (and remember, they ended up mixing Fix You into their 2018 Oly program)....b/c Fix You is the only program they think works for them? That doesn't say much for their creativity or growth. Throwing in new choreo elements to comply with current reqs doesn't really change anything.

Thinking they don't need to come up with a new FD, b/c hey, we beat all the current top teams with this program 10 years ago, and requesting private monitoring at their rink instead of going to Champs Camp and/or Team USA monitoring at LPIDC like everyone else, doesn't do much to counter the impression of entitlement.

 

[tony]

I'd be feeling differently about this comeback had the Shibs been at Champs Camp or entered in any early fall Challenger/Sr Bs just to shake the competition rust off. I feel the same way about their comeback as I do about Sui/Han's in pairs. There can be all the reports about their training or the leaked training footage but until I see them set foot on competitive ice, I question whether or not it's nothing more than a vanity project that may or may not actually happen.

And then if it does result in nothing, most people can sleep contently knowing that C/P and potentially G/P may not be in any danger of their domestic standing. Which would make people... happy anyways?

I mean, when they announced their comeback, many people were joking that they wondered which Coldplay song they would use this time. I think no one really expected them to actually skate to Coldplay again, so the added layer from today is understandable. It's also not helping that in the clip, they were performing the exact same twizzles sequence as they did in their 2018 FD. And when you compare it to the other US dance teams that they will fight for a spot, those teams have been continuously pushing themselves and being innovative with their material, and really pushing themselves technically as well.

2016? A lot of teams both domestically and internationally recycle moves season to season, whether it's a rotational lift or straight-line lift or twizzle sequence or all of the above. It was the highlight move of the 2016 FD so I kinda get it. Why change the most perfectly timed twizzles in a program quite possibly ever?

I see I'm at very heavy odds against most others here, but there's just absolutely nothing to go off yet. I do know when I point out some of the judging currently happening in the ice dance world that makes no sense based on the GOE rubric, I sometimes get feedback that the 'judges know what they are doing' so....

 

[Rukia]

I see I'm at very heavy odds against most others here, but there's just absolutely nothing to go off yet. I do know when I point out some of the judging currently happening in the ice dance world that makes no sense based on the GOE rubric, I sometimes get feedback that the 'judges know what they are doing' so....

Unless my favorites end up in their proper places then the judges 100% do not know what they are doing and that's just a fact

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Are the Shibs videos posted publicly now? I don’t see anything on TSL’s Twitter.

 

[Tinycities]

What personally gives me the most pause, in addition to the element and judging changes since they last competed, is that stylistically they’re a very technically sound team and unfortunately for them, current top ice dance is more vibes/presentation/choreo focused.

I can’t speak to others, but I never really connected with them based on their storytelling/choreo elements. I loved their timing and tech though.

 

[peibeck]

Are the Shibs videos posted publicly now? I don’t see anything on TSL’s Twitter.

It's apparently been deleted.

 

[angi]

It's apparently been deleted.

They are still up, but they are unlisted, so they can't be found in a search. I debated if to post them, I'm just unsure if it's the right thing to do, considering how sketchy the source is (CCTV footage that Dave Lease somehow got, likely without the Shibs knowledge).

 

[NinjaTurtles]

As much as I question and criticize it, it may be as simple as they decided to go with something relatively familiar to mitigate the other challenges they’re facing of getting back into competitive shape, up to speed with the new rules, etc. Putting one new program in place (or 1.5 considering the FD will need to be somewhat reworked given the different element requirements) is less cumbersome than two in the larger scope of staging a comeback relatively late against the Olympics timing.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

They are still up, but they are unlisted, so they can't be found in a search. I debated if to post them, I'm just unsure if it's the right thing to do, considering how sketchy the source is (CCTV footage that Dave Lease somehow got, likely without the Shibs knowledge).

Unlisted on YouTube? I’m shocked no one on Reddit has posted the links yet.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

However Bring It On wouldn’t be a 90s theme…

Ayy, I was thinking it was 98/99, not 2000.

 

[VGThuy]

I’m going to go out on a limb… a long one… and say that “Fix You” is not actually their program. They were doing steps in-between twizzles that looked closer to what teams are doing now during their last exhibition in like 2019, so I don’t understand why they’d be doing the same exact twizzle sequence. Of course, a lot of their choices have been perplexing for many, so this may be par for the course.

Maybe I’m in denial, but let me be as delusional as they are until I have to be confronted with the truth. I mean it won’t hurt anyone because if you’re all right, then you all will have the last laugh.

At least we know they’re training.