2024 ISU Congress Agenda

[Sylvia]

Go Evan Bates! (speaking on behalf of the ISU's Athletes Commission - he asked Gracie to brainstorm with them later)

 

[tony]

So they’re keeping that HUGE majority happy by pushing Billie Idol tunes and staging “Dance Parties”?

How about pushing music that the rest of humanity - those of us above age 34 - likes, for a change? At least try to keep mature audiences happy.

The Idol teeny-tween experiment bombed. Now make us happy with classical music, folk tunes, waltzes and polkas. Go back to what worked 50 years ago.

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated on this board before it starts to sink in- the target audience does not watch network television. There is just such a disillusion when it comes to that. It's not like 18-34 years olds are shuffling through channels daily and they just decide they don't want to watch figure skating. They are scrolling through Instagram and Tik Tok for 6+ hours a day and/or watching Netflix or Hulu. It's as simple as that.

I'm above 34 and your ideas are far from what skating needs to build a whole new generation of audience. The older crowd that is already there will still stay there, but fandom will completely die out (literally and figuratively) by reverting to what worked 50 years ago.

 

[Frau Muller]

Under 34 here and think that the dance parties suck.

But also agree they need to so something to appeal to younger audiences - don't think that's actually about what is happening on the ice though.

Thanks and, yeah, anything but on-ice changes. Concocting new disciplines like solo dance, same-gender dance or synchro for major competitions won’t do it either.

Off ice activities - arena betting? Going back to 6.0 marking but somehow making it more fair?

 

[litenkyckling]

Thanks and, yeah, anything but on-ice changes. Concocting new disciplines like solo dance, same-gender dance or synchro for major competitions won’t do it either.

Off ice activities - arena betting? Going back to 6.0 marking but somehow making it more fair?

“Concocting new disciplines” is actually very good news for the sport so I can’t even slightly agree with you there.

No - better interaction with athletes’ stories, more analysis, engagement through their app during events, making the event more engaging (such as the Kaunas DJ) - all things they noted at the congress.

 

[Frau Muller]

Listen to the last five minutes of the late coach Frank Carroll’s 2022 interview with Polina Edmunds, for his thoughts on today’s system and poor judging that does not emphasize musicality, edges and anything but jumps. He had great ideas:

The Iron Butterfly: Raw Skating (ft. Frank Carroll)

I sit down with world famous coach Frank Carroll, who has coached many famous figure skating champions in his career. We chat about his start in skating, what he looks for in recognizing talent, parents’ role in the coaching processes, training athletes with different personalities, consultant...

bleav.com

 

[Aussie Willy]

“Concocting new disciplines” is actually very good news for the sport so I can’t even slightly agree with you there.

No - better interaction with athletes’ stories, more analysis, engagement through their app during events, making the event more engaging (such as the Kaunas DJ) - all things they noted at the congress.

I agree. Solo Dance is getting traction as a discipline now that it has ISU blessing. Just waiting for TOI to get more traction too. It is a massive participation group and getting bigger. Plus you have adult skating which has a large cohort of participants and is also growing.

There is a difference between participation and what is going to appeal to the general public. Not sure how you do that when there are so many different sports looking for an audience. I think live streaming has been a great benefit but it is still restricted to people actually knowing about it and then knowing where to look. It has to get past that.

 

[Karen-W]

Circling back to the morning session for a moment - the following ISU members are NOT present at the Congress -

Argentina SS
Bosnia & Herzegovina FS/SS
Belarus FS/SS
Croatia FS/SS
Ecuador FS
Greece FS
Kuwait FS
Kyrgyz Republic FS
Moldova FS
North Macedonia FS
North Korea FS/SS
Romania FS/SS
South Africa FS
South Africa SS
Sweden SS
Turkmenistan FS
United Arab Emirates FS
Ukraine SS
Vietnam FS/SS

There are 3 Provisional members present but not allowed to vote -
Chile FS
Colombia SS
Egypt FS

FS Branch Members present -
Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Great Britain, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Mongolia, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, USA, Uzbekistan

SS Branch Members present -
Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mongolia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, USA, Uzbekistan

 

[On My Own]

Would love an ice desk style at the end of each group/resurface with some in depth analysis with experts - explain to me with slow-mo WHY a skater got that score and compare it with another skater/team who did it better. At the end of each day of competition (even just for Championships) - why not hire someone to do a Ted Kravitz Notebook style vlog with background information, stats etc. I just think this could be taken more seriously as a sport if it was treated like one.

I don't know if it'll help because frankly I doubt most watch skating as a sport.

Tbh, I think the appeal of skating is just over and there's nothing to revive it.

 

[Aussie Willy]

The general public (not fans) only watch skating during the Olympics. Otherwise out of sight out of mind.

 

[Karen-W]

FS branch meeting - not sure who suggested it but the request was made to restrict back flips from being attempted during the warm-up or practices at competitions because there are too many other skaters on the ice and it can be dangerous.

And regarding the choreo spin - someone wants to require that the choreo spin be marked as the last spin element - which sort of defeats the purpose of allowing the choreo spin in the first place.

 

[overedge]

More than a few "mature" people don't mind listening to current music. The mistake that the ISU is making is assuming that current music will draw young audiences. It's not that simple. (and it's not that simple because if someone wants to hear, say, Billie Eilish, they just have to go online - they don't have to watch a skating event.)

 

[Sylvia]

Figure Skating Branch Session livestream (eta - and replay link):

Day 1 - Figure Skating Branch Session | 59th Ordinary Congress | Las Vegas 2024

Visit the link below for more information on the 59th ISU Congress and to review the Congress Agenda: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/rules-regulations/isu-co...

www.youtube.com

 

[ice coverage]

FS branch meeting - not sure who suggested it but the request was made to restrict back flips from being attempted during the warm-up or practices at competitions because there are too many other skaters on the ice and it can be dangerous.

Wieland Luthers, who has been ISU Event Manager for Figure Skating since 2016, was the person who spoke about the danger of back flips when a practice group or warm-up group is on ice. He earlier also had been ISU Assistant Event Manager for Figure Skating. (In other words, he has a lot of experience .) He is from Germany.

 

[Karen-W]

JSF wants to delay implementation of the major rule changes for singles/pairs (choreo spin, choreo lift, elimination of 1 jumping pass) until the next Olympic cycle. Good lord, these poor skaters who may already have programs choreographed for the coming season based on the proposals.

 

[tony]

One thing I keep seeing pop up as a theme of how to 'save' skating is by suggesting this or that significant technical change. So few people who are hardcore fans of the sport bother to even learn what goes into the scoring systems, they don't learn the specifics on jumps or spins, they don't know the first thing about ice dance, etc. I remember a PBP earlier in the year where I was trying to go in-depth about some of the scoring rules and a poster (albeit politely) basically replied that no one here really cared about learning the rules. This is FSU, now the longest(?) running skating-specific message board and we have the majority of people here who don't care one bit about most of the technical rules. Bringing more technical stuff into skating or even modifying where it's already at is not going to bring in fans. Look around.

Big personalities, variety in the way they can express themselves on the ice, and sharing via social media is all where it's at. But this generation of target audience also has the opportunity to see the cliffs notes version of everything, they have streaming media at their fingertips, and they don't have to shell out thousands for an opportunity to see said skaters. As it refers to 'variety in expression', I'm sorry but the IJS rules across all disciplines have made almost every program have the same element order and dance programs are all looking the same across the elements. That's where there needs to be more variety and a generation of skaters coming up that isn't taught to plow through the program from start to finish like the Russian women seemed to make so famous at first.

JSF wants to delay implementation of the major rule changes for singles/pairs (choreo spin, choreo lift, elimination of 1 jumping pass) until the next Olympic cycle. Good lord, these poor skaters who may already have programs choreographed for the coming season based on the proposals.

I'm actually in favor of no major changes until after the Olympic cycle completes, and I think I posted as much in this thread a few months ago. It's still baffling how so few changes came about during the Covid breaks, but they want to buckle down now, mid-cycle.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm actually in favor of no major changes until after the Olympic cycle completes, and I think I posted as much in this thread a few months ago. It's still baffling how so few changes came about during the Covid breaks.

Oh, so am I - it was baffling to me that the Tech Cmte proposed such major changes mid-Olympic cycle. I just feel badly for the skaters who've already choreographed programs based on the proposals should the implementation be delayed until 2026-27.

 

[Rukia]

They need to look at accessibility in being able to see competitions for one thing. Let people pay a for a twitch-like sub to watch competitions. Let people actually watch stuff affordably. That's going to get more eyes on the sport.

 

[Karen-W]

Evan is speaking now about the athletes forum at Worlds - feedback seems to be that a lot of the skaters were very concerned and confused about the proposed changes.

 

[Aussie Willy]

They need to look at accessibility in being able to see competitions for one thing. Let people pay a for a twitch-like sub to watch competitions. Let people actually watch stuff affordably. That's going to get more eyes on the sport.

How many countries charge to watch skating online?

In Australia we have SBS show the big events on their streaming service (for free) and all the JGP events are on the ISU Youtube channel for free but they have ads. Which if you don't want ads then you require a subscription which you many have for that anyway because you watch much more than just skating.

 

[Karen-W]

How many countries charge to watch skating online?

In Australia we have SBS show the big events on their streaming service (for free) and all the JGP events are on the ISU Youtube channel for free but they have ads. Which if you don't want ads then you require a subscription which you many have for that anyway because you watch much more than just skating.

I'd say that there needs to be a broader effort to livestream on more than just YT. Rumble, Locals, Twitch all seem to becoming more popular and a lot of the podcasts that I follow stream on multiple platforms. Anything to expand the audience, IMO.

 

[Rukia]

How many countries charge to watch skating online?

In Australia we have SBS show the big events on their streaming service (for free) and all the JGP events are on the ISU Youtube channel for free but they have ads. Which if you don't want ads then you require a subscription which you many have for that anyway because you watch much more than just skating.

I mean the problem is it depends on what you want to watch. If you wanted to keep up with Challengers you had to shell out for each event individually (if they even had streaming). I know it's not easy, but it needs to be consolidated. Expecting people to look all over to find things is never going to help.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I kind of agree with no major change in the middle of an Olympic cycle. It feels like they make changes to push favorites forward at the expense of others. They should have a whole cycle so everyone knows what to train and time to plan safe training.

 

[Rukia]

I'd say that there needs to be a broader effort to livestream on more than just YT. Rumble, Locals, Twitch all seem to becoming more popular and a lot of the podcasts that I follow stream on multiple platforms. Anything to expand the audience, IMO.

streaming skating on twitch might be a bit of a nightmare tbh (yes I have streamed and helped run streams on twitch it's pretty annoying lol plus the odds of getting copyright stricken in the middle of a stream are high). I had to google the others and oof. They look even worse. There are ways to do it though.

 

[tony]

I mean the problem is it depends on what you want to watch. If you wanted to keep up with Challengers you had to shell out for each event individually (if they even had streaming). I know it's not easy, but it needs to be consolidated. Expecting people to look all over to find things is never going to help.

Which is why every few years, a few people bring up the idea of an ISU Skating Network in which a yearly fee can be paid, along the lines of what happens with Peacock or Ice Network or Challengers or anything else.

And then can do so much more with it, especially with historical skating videos that are either long-gone or have never been available. FSVids has gone completely ghost town, channels on YouTube are getting deleted, and A LOT of skating history is now at the mercy of a very few select people who have kept all of it. I was rushing like a mad man the last few months trying to save as much as I could to external hard drives before it happens again.

Anyways, an ISU Network would have people who whine non-stop because that's just how it is regardless of what is presented, but the opportunity is there.

Oh, and for the millionth time: the ISU (and the USFS) need to ditch the social media teams they have and get people that actually know what they are doing (and/or are interesting...)

 

[Aussie Willy]

I mean the problem is it depends on what you want to watch. If you wanted to keep up with Challengers you had to shell out for each event individually (if they even had streaming). I know it's not easy, but it needs to be consolidated. Expecting people to look all over to find things is never going to help.

Here are the requirements for an ISU Member to run a Challenger event.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2023-24/challenger-series-22/series-files-56/31231-general-announcement-2023-24-1/file

Whilst the ISU provides a certain amount to support these events, the ISU Member is basically responsible for running the event. So whether they have streaming is dependent on having the resources to do it. They are all pretty much volunteer workforces who do it.

 

[Rukia]

Here are the requirements for an ISU Member to run a Challenger event.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2023-24/challenger-series-22/series-files-56/31231-general-announcement-2023-24-1/file

Whilst the ISU provides a certain amount to support these events, the ISU Member is basically responsible for running the event. So whether they have streaming is dependent on having the resources to do it. They are all pretty much volunteer workforces who do it.

I understand this, but ultimately the ISU needs to take some responsibility for this if they want to be successful in getting a wider fanbase.

 

[Jammers]

JSF wants to delay implementation of the major rule changes for singles/pairs (choreo spin, choreo lift, elimination of 1 jumping pass) until the next Olympic cycle. Good lord, these poor skaters who may already have programs choreographed for the coming season based on the proposals.

Hopefully if the JSF is opposing the rule changes until the next Olympic cycle other Feds will join in too. This should not happen in the middle of the Olympic cycle and if a powerful country like the Japanese are against it hopefully it will be enough to delay the rule changes.

 

[Debbie S]

I think we all recognize that broadcast TV is shrinking and streaming viewership is growing....that's true across most age groups, not just 18-34. But there's no way that skating is going to be able to build a fan base online when skating programs get taken down after 48 hours, even on paid streaming services, and are being muted and deleted from open sites like YouTube. I realize this issue goes beyond skating, but there needs to be something worked out where artists are compensated so that their work can be posted online. Ilia's Worlds FS was up on NBC for a week? Or two? If people can't go back and watch it and share it across their networks, no one is going to see it.

And yes, agree with Tony that ISU and USFS social media needs an overhaul. And beyond that, USFS just needs to promote the sport better....agree that the sport is about personalities, that's what's going to draw people in, particularly the younger crowd (I mean, they're the same age as the skaters). USFS has never been good at promoting personalities, or the big accomplishments outside of OGMs. Ilia's 4A barely registered until maybe after Worlds, when local and other non-skating media picked up the whole story, but where has USFS been? Where are they now? We're 2 years out from the Olys, the U.S. has 2 legitimate gold medal contenders (Ilia and C/B), and who knows who they are? Amber Glenn (as well as some others) can get a huge following on TikTok, the audience is there, USFS and the ISU need to learn how to tap into that interest.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I understand this, but ultimately the ISU needs to take some responsibility for this if they want to be successful in getting a wider fanbase.

Do you think that a wider fanbase is out there? Whilst a person who knows nothing about figure skating might watch Worlds or Olympics, would that really translate into something that is going to get your average person into watching something like a Challenger event even if it was live streamed?

 

[Rukia]

Do you think that a wider fanbase is out there? Whilst a person who knows nothing about figure skating might watch Worlds or Olympics, would that really translate into something that is going to get your average person into watching something like a Challenger event even if it was live streamed?

Yes I do. Social media, when done well, is extremely powerful, and I have seen it happen.