2024-25 Pairs General Discussion - Who Wants to Skate Forever (in Junior Pairs)?

[farahfan]

Random question: is the current pairs musical chairs in the Grand Prix pretty typical? This is the first year I am following pairs in the Grand Prix. Or are pairs being extra careful with recovery so as not to mess up their chances in the Olympic year? It seems to me that there are a few pairs that could still withdraw, based on recent lackluster performances.

 

[Sylvia]

Random question: is the current pairs musical chairs in the Grand Prix pretty typical?

Yes.

Do we know why Beccari/Guarise withdrew from Skate Canada Int'l?

 

[Kateri]

Do we know why Beccari/Guarise withdrew from Skate Canada Int'l?

I haven't looked on their social media or anything, all I know is they're crossed out on the schedule, sorry!

 

[Karen-W]

I haven't looked on their social media or anything, all I know is they're crossed out on the schedule, sorry!

Nothing at all on their IGs - she posted pics from a midnight convenience store shopping trip yesterday and looked perfectly fine, so it's a mystery.

Random question: is the current pairs musical chairs in the Grand Prix pretty typical? This is the first year I am following pairs in the Grand Prix. Or are pairs being extra careful with recovery so as not to mess up their chances in the Olympic year? It seems to me that there are a few pairs that could still withdraw, based on recent lackluster performances.

As @Sylvia said - the musical chairs with pairs GP assignments happens every season - like clockwork it begins the week before SkAm as teams realize there's no way they'll be ready for their GPs.

I've got my eye on a few other teams that could WD within the coming weeks - DanTsi, Les Kovs and ChanHowe are the obvious ones - though I think ChanHowe's issues at Shanghai Trophy were more along the lines of too much adrenaline in their SP and not enough time to train between Champs Camp & Shanghai due to Emily's concussion recovery time. DanTsi, looking at their Tayside protocols, I suspect similar challenges - they had negative GOEs on most of their elements. Les Kovs are the ones that I really think will drop if not out of GPdF then certainly CoC because that fall she took at French Masters was rough and they had falls at Tayside again.

 

[farahfan]

Nothing at all on their IGs - she posted pics from a midnight convenience store shopping trip yesterday and looked perfectly fine, so it's a mystery.


As @Sylvia said - the musical chairs with pairs GP assignments happens every season - like clockwork it begins the week before SkAm as teams realize there's no way they'll be ready for their GPs.

I've got my eye on a few other teams that could WD within the coming weeks - DanTsi, Les Kovs and ChanHowe are the obvious ones - though I think ChanHowe's issues at Shanghai Trophy were more along the lines of too much adrenaline in their SP and not enough time to train between Champs Camp & Shanghai due to Emily's concussion recovery time. DanTsi, looking at their Tayside protocols, I suspect similar challenges - they had negative GOEs on most of their elements. Les Kovs are the ones that I really think will drop if not out of GPdF then certainly CoC because that fall she took at French Masters was rough and they had falls at Tayside again.

Dang, if GamKor end up with two GP assignments, I might proclaim a national holiday for myself.

 

[Sylvia]

Photographer MAO Yanzheng posted 8 photos of the pairs’ triple twists in the Skate America FS here:

Mao Yanzheng on Instagram: "All the twist lifts captured during the pairs free skating at the 2024 Skate America. #FigureSkating #GPFigure #SkateAmerica"

208 likes, 6 comments - maoyanzheng on October 19, 2024: "All the twist lifts captured during the pairs free skating at the 2024 Skate America. #FigureSkating #GPFigure #SkateAmerica".

www.instagram.com

In response to a comment “Who got the highest?” I painstakingly went through the protocols and compiled a list of twist element scores & levels and identified the pairs in the photos - and the reply I received was: “… I was actually thinking who got the most height but this is good too”


Here are my stats:

3Tw in SP / 3Tw in FS - in photo order:
Metelkina/Berulava 7.49 L3 (1) / 7.97 L4 (1)
Efimova/Mitrofanov 6.92 L3 (6) / 7.17 L3 (6)
Miura/Kihara 7.17 L2 (4) / 7.49 L3 (3)
Kam/O'Shea 7.37 L4 (2) / 7.54 L4 (2)
Pavlova/Sviatchenko 7.20 L4 (3) / 7.29 L4 (5)
Vaipan-Law/Digby 5.94 L2 (8) / 6.40 L2 (8)
Vaananen/Clerici 6.6 L4 (7) / 7.03 L4 (7)
McBeath/Parkman 7.11 L4 (5) / 7.46 L4 (4)

 

[farahfan]

is there anywhere I can find a list of the current SB of all the pairs? I was poking around Skating Scores but only found standings based on WS points.

 

[Karen-W]

is there anywhere I can find a list of the current SB of all the pairs? I was poking around Skating Scores but only found standings based on WS points.

Statistics - International Skating Union

Figure Skating Statistics and World Standings/Season World Ranking.

current.isu.org

 

[Sylvia]

And Izzo/Maierhofer AUT are officially confirmed!

Clip of Izzo/Maierhofer’s sbs 3Lz in practice in Austria:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBjEImqRfwJ/

 

[Sylvia]

Do we know why Beccari/Guarise withdrew from Skate Canada Int'l?

From the GP Assignments thread in GSD:

Lucrezia's foot is injured again.... after 2 months off the ice this summer for a stress fracture.... it doesn't sound good

Oct. 18th post by Beccari:

Lucrezia Beccari on Instagram: "Hello everyone 👋🏻 I’m so sad to announce that we are not going to compete at Skate Canada🥺 Unfortunately I have problems with my foot again… I’m trying to find with my staff which is the best way to follow for a wel

695 likes, 47 comments - lucreziabeccari on October 18, 2024: "Hello everyone 👋🏻 I’m so sad to announce that we are not going to compete at Skate Canada🥺 Unfortunately I have problems with my foot again… I’m trying to find with my staff which is the best way to follow for a well recovery to...

www.instagram.com

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting here from the Australian news thread in GSD…

@clairecloutier's interview with Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore at their season debut at Skate Canada Int'l in Halifax (Oct. 25):

Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore: "We're trying to mature our skating" - A divine sport

Australian pairs skaters Anastasia Golubeva and Hector Giotopolous Moore look to improve their connection on ice in their third year as senior pairs skaters.

adivinesport.com

They are training full-time in Montreal now (with Deanna/Max).

 

[Sylvia]

2 interviews by Tatjana Flade:

With Minerva & Nikita - team nickname is "Miniki" (Sept. 18): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ksj8A3S0Sg

With Deanna & Max at Nebelhorn Trophy in September (uploaded Oct. 25): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKyxFPtBpgw

 

[Karen-W]

Wow! Warsaw Cup entries are out and just wow!!!!

Brooke McIntosh has gotten her release from Canada and will be debuting for Spain with Marco Zandron!

Here's the full field -

Pairs -
1 Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS
2 Gabriella IZZO / Luc MAIERHOFER AUT
3 Fiona BOMBARDIER / Benjamin MIMAR CAN
4 Barbora KUCIANOVA / Martin BIDAR CZE
5 Brooke MCINTOSH / Marco ZANDRON ESP
6 Tilda ALTERYD / Noel-Antoine PIERRE FRA
7 Louise EHRHARD / Matthis PELLEGRIS FRA
8 Aurelie FAULA / Theo BELLE FRA
9 Anastasia VAIPAN-LAW / Luke DIGBY GBR
10 Letizia ROSCHER / Luis SCHUSTER GER
11 Julia Sylvia GUNNARSDOTTIR / Manuel PIAZZA ISL
12 Lucrezia BECCARI / Lucrezia BECCARI ITA
13 Irma CALDARA / Riccardo MAGLIO ITA
14 Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI ITA
15 Daria DANILOVA / Michel TSIBA NED
16 Isabella GAMEZ / Aleksandr KOROVIN PHI
17 Oxana VOUILLAMOZ / Tom BOUVART SUI
18 Sofiia HOLICHENKO / Artem DARENSKYI UKR
19 Isabelle MARTINS / Ryan BEDARD USA
20 Audrey SHIN / Balazs NAGY USA

FOUR teams making their international debut - Izzo/Maierhofer debut at IceChallenge Graz two weeks before Warsaw Cup; while Gunnarsdottir/Piazza and Vouillamoz/Bouvart will be debuting at NRW Trophy the week before Warsaw Cup.

 

[Karen-W]

Sitkova/Kubacak have ended their partnership - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBrWXbSIH39/?igsh=MnFnYTJkM3J5dDJn I'm a bit bummed as I thought they showed some promise.

 

[Sylvia]

Photographer MAO Yanzheng posted 8 photos of the pairs’ triple twists in the Skate America FS here:

Mao Yanzheng on Instagram: "All the twist lifts captured during the pairs free skating at the 2024 Skate America. #FigureSkating #GPFigure #SkateAmerica"

208 likes, 6 comments - maoyanzheng on October 19, 2024: "All the twist lifts captured during the pairs free skating at the 2024 Skate America. #FigureSkating #GPFigure #SkateAmerica".

www.instagram.com

More twist lifts by photograph Mao - from Halifax:

Mao Yanzheng on Instagram: "The twist lifts from each pair! Apologies to one pair — the lift height was just too impressive, and she flied a bit out of the frame! #SCI24 #GPFigure #Figureskating"

126 likes, 3 comments - maoyanzheng on October 26, 2024: "The twist lifts from each pair! Apologies to one pair — the lift height was just too impressive, and she flied a bit out of the frame! #SCI24 #GPFigure #Figureskating".

www.instagram.com

ETA: Top 2 highest scoring 3twist4 belonged to Deanna/Max's in the FS (8.14) and SP (8.06).
Next 2 were Geynish/Chigirev's 3Tw3 in the FS (7.49) and Chtchetinina/Wozniak's 3Tw3 (7.00).

 

[farahfan]

I'm probably arriving late to this conversation, but I can't help but think that the future of pairs is in the jumps.
Everyone is complaining about jumps being trump card of singles performances, but it's pairs, too.
I'm super impressed by the new pair from Austria Gabriella Izzo and Luc Maierhofer. They were both accomplished singles skaters with many triples. Luc was working on a quad. Luc skates for one year with a pair then switches to Gabriella who has zero pairs experience. In their first competition (Ice Challenge) they get the gold medal and Worlds minimums thanks to their jump strength (3F+2A+2A, 3Lz, 3F, and 3FTh!). Most of their pair elements still need lots of refining. They don't have a triple twist and one of their death spirals was invalidated. But they are going to Worlds.
I don't know what to think about that but it seems to me we've truly entered the jump era.

 

[tony]

I'm probably arriving late to this conversation, but I can't help but think that the future of pairs is in the jumps.
Everyone is complaining about jumps being trump card of singles performances, but it's pairs, too.
I'm super impressed by the new pair from Austria Gabriella Izzo and Luc Maierhofer. They were both accomplished singles skaters with many triples. Luc was working on a quad. Luc skates for one year with a pair then switches to Gabriella who has zero pairs experience. In their first competition (Ice Challenge) they get the gold medal and Worlds minimums thanks to their jump strength (3F+2A+2A, 3Lz, 3F, and 3FTh!). The rest of their pair elements still need lots of refining. They don't have a triple twist and one of their death spirals was invalidated. But they are going to Worlds.
I don't know what to think about that but it seems to me we've truly entered the jump era.

I don't think you can say that based on the level of one pairs team, looking around at what most of the rest of them are doing (or failing to do).

Duhamel and then-partner Ryan Arnold came out with the ambitious SBS 3Lutzes in the short, and some months later landed the first throw 3Lz. That was 20 years ago. We saw other pairs such as Vise/Trent land the first throw 4S, and teams have played with bigger individual and throw jumps in these 20 years, as well. But it never became commonplace.

And going back even further, Yamaguchi/Galindo in the late 80's were doing crazy technical content in their free skates and it didn't stick then, either.

 

[Sylvia]

I'm super impressed by the new pair from Austria Gabriella Izzo and Luc Maierhofer. They were both accomplished singles skaters with many triples. Luc was working on a quad. Luc skates for one year with a pair then switches to Gabriella who has zero pairs experience

Izzo trained last season with Canada's Thierry Ferland in Montreal (same rink & coaches as Deanna/Max) and presumably his experience and the coaches there helped her in her switch to the pairs discipline before they parted ways and she partnered with Maierhofer earlier this year (in the spring or early summer, IIRC?).

 

[farahfan]

Izzo trained last season with Canada's Thierry Ferland in Montreal (same rink & coaches as Deanna/Max) and presumably his experience and the coaches there helped her in her switch to the pairs discipline before they parted ways and she partnered with Maierhofer earlier this year (in the spring or early summer, IIRC?).

Thanks for the info!
I guess I was thinking about competition experience. I didn't see anything for her on Skating Scores.

 

[Sylvia]

I guess I was thinking about competition experience. I didn't see anything for her on Skating Scores.

Right - Graz was Izzo’s first-ever international competition as a pair skater so major kudos to her and Luc on a successful debut!

She and Ferland competed at Quebec Sectionals last year: https://resultats.patinage.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/RES-CAT-43-49.pdf
That might have been their only competition together.

ETA - Congrats also to the 2 U.S. pairs - Nica Digerness/Mark Sadusky & Linzy Fitzpatrick/Keyton Bearinger - for each medaling in their first international assignment abroad!

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[Sabine-Yuna]

I'm probably arriving late to this conversation, but I can't help but think that the future of pairs is in the jumps.
Everyone is complaining about jumps being trump card of singles performances, but it's pairs, too.
I'm super impressed by the new pair from Austria Gabriella Izzo and Luc Maierhofer. They were both accomplished singles skaters with many triples. Luc was working on a quad. Luc skates for one year with a pair then switches to Gabriella who has zero pairs experience. In their first competition (Ice Challenge) they get the gold medal and Worlds minimums thanks to their jump strength (3F+2A+2A, 3Lz, 3F, and 3FTh!). Most of their pair elements still need lots of refining. They don't have a triple twist and one of their death spirals was invalidated. But they are going to Worlds.
I don't know what to think about that but it seems to me we've truly entered the jump era.

I must say I don't care much about the single jumps in pairs. A great throw, a beautiful lift or ds or a high twist and the overall skating as a team is what makes this diszipline special to me.
At the moment Izzo/ Mayerhofer don't really impress me as a pair, rather than as of two good single jumpers. Let's see if they can improve the (to me) more important part of pair skating. Their jumps of course are great.

 

[Sylvia]

I must say I don't care much about the single jumps in pairs. A great throw, a beautiful lift or ds or a high twist and the overall skating as a team is what makes this diszipline special to me.

Yes!

 

[BrightSkates]

Second this. When I watch pairs I don't really get excited about the SBS Jumps.... only nervous
I get excited about the lifts, and twist, and overall flow of a team.

 

[Karen-W]

Agreed! I don't actually mind the idea of losing the 2nd SBS jumping pass in the FS that was part of the tech proposals at the ISU Congress that got shelved until 2026. I'd really be okay with a SBS solo jumping pass in the SP and a SBS combo/seq jumping pass in the FS. I'd rather see both a SBS pairs spin AND a pairs combo spin in the FS than two SBS jumping passes.

 

[farahfan]

Agreed! I don't actually mind the idea of losing the 2nd SBS jumping pass in the FS that was part of the tech proposals at the ISU Congress that got shelved until 2026. I'd really be okay with a SBS solo jumping pass in the SP and a SBS combo/seq jumping pass in the FS. I'd rather see both a SBS pairs spin AND a pairs combo spin in the FS than two SBS jumping passes.

Ah I agree about the spins. I wish more pairs would take a page out of the ice-dance book and be more creative in their combo spins. I would also love to see a rotational lift or something like a mid-line step sequence.

At the moment Izzo/ Mayerhofer don't really impress me as a pair, rather than as of two good single jumpers. Let's see if they can improve the (to me) more important part of pair skating. Their jumps of course are great.

Yes, I agree. When i say I'm impressed it's not their overall pair skating skills which are still very rough, but rather the fact that two strong jumpers can climb so quickly in the ranks and instantly get into the top competitions. I'm wondering out loud why feds looking for a pair don't go down this route more often, but then again, figure-skating pairing (and perseverance) is a complicated art. Also, jumps can betray you more than any other element in a pairs program.

 

[Sylvia]

When i say I'm impressed it's not their overall pair skating skills which are still very rough, but rather the fact that two strong jumpers can climb so quickly in the ranks and instantly get into the top competitions.

IceChallenge in Graz is a Senior/Junior B international that any pair can enter through their federation as long as the entry fee is paid.

 

[farahfan]

IceChallenge in Graz is a Senior/Junior B international that any pair can enter through their federation as long as the entry fee is paid.

I'm referring to them qualifying for Euros and Worlds at their first international. Again, not to take away any merit from them- they 100% earned it.

 

[farahfan]

Second this. When I watch pairs I don't really get excited about the SBS Jumps.... only nervous
I get excited about the lifts, and twist, and overall flow of a team.

Totally agree, I am so nervous when the SBS jumps are coming up. It's like you can see the fear in some pair's faces. Come to think of it, I think the best and worst in all figure skating belong to pairs. The best being a magnificent triple twist. The worst being a double wipeout in the SBS jumps.

 

[BrightSkates]

Can some pairs be entered/selected through a Senior B while being paid in part/fully for accommodations? Because I heard that Team USA was partially selected...and not sure how the new process works...

 

[Sylvia]

Can some pairs be entered/selected through a Senior B while being paid in part/fully for accommodations? Because I heard that Team USA was partially selected...and not sure how the new process works...

There's some discussion on this topic in this GSD thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2024-25-usfs-international-assignments.111847/#post-6645164