2022 Nationals in Nashville

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,763
Nats tickets are nonrefundable, unless the event is canceled. I assume USFS hasn't told people about the policy b/c they don't know if it will be extended. I hope it is or that USFS institutes its own policy. I suspect such a policy will encourage people to buy tix, not the other way around.
 

TanithandBenFan

Author of the Ice and Edge Series
Messages
8,534
According to the Bridgestone arena website: A printed or digital negative *********-19 PCR or antigen test administered by a healthcare professional within 72 hours prior to a guest’s given event date that includes the guest’s name and the date of the test.

From what I understand, "antigen" means "rapid test". So there's no reason people should be turned away because they got a rapid test.
I guess this means being tested every 3 days? Because this event is a week long.
Bridgestone arena provided a link to free testing sites in Nashville: https://*********.tn.gov/testing-sites/
Just click the "free testing sites only" checkbox.



I think it's worry that if they announce it this early, a lot of people will ask for refunds on their tickets and USFSA will lose money. The tickets are super expensive this year for some reason. I feel like they're trying to recoup the costs of not being able to have an audience for a long time. If a bunch of people don't buy tickets at all, or ask for refunds, because of this testing and vax pass policy, then that's only going to hurt them further. So they're either hoping this policy is dropped by January or hoping if they only tell people last minute, they'll just cave and get tests every 3 days, instead of asking for refunds since they've cemented their vacation days from work, bought airline tickets, etc.

I'm glad Las Vegas isn't doing this. I'm hoping Nashville will change its policy by January, or at least only require a test at the start of the week and not every 3 days.
I was referring to my local stadiums turning people away. I have no idea if such a thing has happened at Bridgestone.

If people would just get the damn vaccine they wouldn’t need to worry about being tested. It’s the easiest option.
 

Arwen17

Member
Messages
42
Nats tickets are nonrefundable, unless the event is canceled. I assume USFS hasn't told people about the policy b/c they don't know if it will be extended. I hope it is or that USFS institutes its own policy. I suspect such a policy will encourage people to buy tix, not the other way around.

So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance. This is why most events include the option to use a negative test instead of vax card because they know how badly these restrictions suppress attendance. The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine. It's not there to encourage fearful people to come to the event.
The majority of people who go to events are young, healthy, and unafraid. In contrast, the highest vax rates are among the very old and the very sick. This demographic does not usually go to as many events as the young and healthy. So when they require vax pass they are essentially banning their largest demographic. Hence, why most places don't require anything, or only require masks, or offer a negative test option, because they've seen how poor turnout is when they go hardcore vax-card-only method. The fearful and sick population don't make up for the 100000x times larger young, healthy, and unafraid population. Many of these fearful or sick people weren't going to go anywhere anyway, vax or not.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
48,813
So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance. This is why most events include the option to use a negative test instead of vax card because they know how badly these restrictions suppress attendance. The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine. It's not there to encourage fearful people to come to the event.
The majority of people who go to events are young, healthy, and unafraid. In contrast, the highest vax rates are among the very old and the very sick. This demographic does not usually go to as many events as the young and healthy. So when they require vax pass they are essentially banning their largest demographic. Hence, why most places don't require anything, or only require masks, or offer a negative test option, because they've seen how poor turnout is when they go hardcore vax-card-only method. The fearful and sick population don't make up for the 100000x times larger young, healthy, and unafraid population. Many of these fearful or sick people weren't going to go anywhere anyway, vax or not.
What absolute nonsense.
 

TanithandBenFan

Author of the Ice and Edge Series
Messages
8,534
So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance. This is why most events include the option to use a negative test instead of vax card because they know how badly these restrictions suppress attendance. The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine. It's not there to encourage fearful people to come to the event.
The majority of people who go to events are young, healthy, and unafraid. In contrast, the highest vax rates are among the very old and the very sick. This demographic does not usually go to as many events as the young and healthy. So when they require vax pass they are essentially banning their largest demographic. Hence, why most places don't require anything, or only require masks, or offer a negative test option, because they've seen how poor turnout is when they go hardcore vax-card-only method. The fearful and sick population don't make up for the 100000x times larger young, healthy, and unafraid population. Many of these fearful or sick people weren't going to go anywhere anyway, vax or not.
Zero truth. Attendance at skating events skews older. I started going to Nats when I was in my mid-20’s and I was one of the few in that demo.

The New Orleans Saints have a vax or negative test policy, and while a few season ticket holders asked for refunds, they were overwhelmed by people wanting to get on the season ticket list to take those spots. Their attendance will not be hurt by this policy at all. So again, zero truth.
 

Arwen17

Member
Messages
42
Zero truth. Attendance at skating events skews older. I started going to Nats when I was in my mid-20’s and I was one of the few in that demo.

The New Orleans Saints have a vax or negative test policy, and while a few season ticket holders asked for refunds, they were overwhelmed by people wanting to get on the season ticket list to take those spots. Their attendance will not be hurt by this policy at all. So again, zero truth.
You didn't read what I wrote. I wrote events that went hardcore vax-pass-only. As long as they offer that negative test option, they usually do fine.

I'm fully aware skating events draws older crowds. I'm talking about the very old and the very sick. These are the people with the highest vax rate. I'm not talking middle-age. When I say "young", I don't just mean people in their 20s. I'm not in my 20s.

You also realize that these slips of paper really mean nothing? I've heard hundreds of reports from the heart of places like NYC. Businesses basically accepting anything that looks remotely legit. They need the money to stay alive. They give stuff a cursory glance to avoid government fines. These vax cards have just become another thing in a long line of security theatre to make fearful people "feel" safer. You're living in a dream world if you think people are happily and mindlessly complying with everything. But I'm sure more iron-fisted totalitarianism will fix everything. nods Just increase that and everyone will be happy.

If you've had your vax, the stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. You're "safe", right? The vax will protect you.
If you're still fearful, then don't go because you're never going to have perfect "safety".
 

TanithandBenFan

Author of the Ice and Edge Series
Messages
8,534
You didn't read what I wrote. I wrote events that went hardcore vax-pass-only. As long as they offer that negative test option, they usually do fine.

I'm fully aware skating events draws older crowds. I'm talking about the very old and the very sick. These are the people with the highest vax rate. I'm not talking middle-age. When I say "young", I don't just mean people in their 20s. I'm not in my 20s.

You also realize that these slips of paper really mean nothing? I've heard hundreds of reports from the heart of places like NYC. Businesses basically accepting anything that looks remotely legit. They need the money to stay alive. They give stuff a cursory glance to avoid government fines. These vax cards have just become another thing in a long line of security theatre to make fearful people "feel" safer. You're living in a dream world if you think people are happily and mindlessly complying with everything. But I'm sure more iron-fisted totalitarianism will fix everything. nods Just increase that and everyone will be happy.

If you've had your vax, the stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. You're "safe", right? The vax will protect you.
If you're still fearful, then don't go because you're never going to have perfect "safety".
I'm not fearful. I bought tickets the day they went on sale and have every intention of going regardless of the policy. I'm going to SA in Vegas where no such policy will be in place. That being said, I don't enjoy getting ill so anything that could reduce my chances of possibly getting the crud would be welcome. I also think the selfish unvaccinated masses (not including children who don't have the choice) shouldn't have the privilege of attending large events where they can infect each other and create more sickness/hospital chaos in the community. That's my opinion, goodnight and goodbye.
 

Barbara Manatee

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,847
So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance.
Nope. For example, the Raiders in Las Vegas require vaccination to attend games - 700 season ticket holders asked for refunds, their tickets were quickly bought by others, and all games this season are sold out. Plus -
It appears the Raiders rules requiring proof of COVID-19 vaccines to attend games at Allegiant Stadium led to a spike in fans getting shots.

According to the Raiders, more than 6,000 people received the first dose of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine outside the stadium or at other approved locations before the Monday night home opener.
 

Arwen17

Member
Messages
42
Nope. For example, the Raiders in Las Vegas require vaccination to attend games - 700 season ticket holders asked for refunds, their tickets were quickly bought by others, and all games this season are sold out. Plus -

Lol you do realize that they all received one dose a day before the game. AKA they were still “unvaccinated” because it takes two shots and many weeks to be vaccinated. Therefore, they were all health threats to those who are so worried about safety. This was all about compliance and nothing about safety. And who’s to say they ever got the 2nd shot or didn’t just write something on their paper card to make it look like they got the 2nd shot? I’ve seen that in some places, where they only require the first shot, aka it’s about compliance and not safety.
The “hardcore” vax pass I’m talking about is places where they were able to enforce it via app, which is much harder to fake and requires the full two shots and required waiting weeks.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
25,979
BTW, Broadway shows are requiring proof of vaccination. I just looked at getting tickets for some shows in October. They are mostly sold out. So not true that the requirement keeps people from going to stuff. I’m more likely to go knowing that vaccinations are required
It’s an easy call in the heavily vaccinated Northeast. Cater to the 75% and have a reasonable option for kids. Everyone else will need to pony up for a PCR test 3 days before as well as go through the venue’s rapid test on the day.
 

Arwen17

Member
Messages
42
So you are changing the goalposts then? Okay.

The Raiders are requiring vaccination proof via the CLEAR Health Pass app.
I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm pointing out that what you're describing was not a vaccinated environment, since you're the one who's saying people are going because they feel "safe" because everyone has been vaccinated, when in fact they were not.

So which is it? First you tell me they literally let 6,000 unvaccinated people walk in simply because they got the first shot the DAY BEFORE the game. Then you're saying they're only doing the app and no paper proof at all? (With my original point being the paper version is extremely easy to fake.)

No, the restriction is there to keep it from becoming a super spreader event.

You do realize that tons of people with the vaccine are getting it, right? The main point is they're less likely to end up hospitalized (supposedly. I'm continuing to watch the data on this in multiple countries). It absolutely can be a "super spreader" event, even if your event is truly full of vaccinated people and not people with just the first shot or fake paper cards or all of the other versions of not-really-vaccinated.
You've also got the variants cropping up, which is why they're pushing booster shot approval so hard (or you know, so they can make more money, but I'm sure its about "safety" too)

I'm not afraid or trying to spread fear, I'm just trying to point out the lunacy of this "safety" feeling everyone seems to be craving so badly. The majority of it is security theatre and doing nothing useful other than an authoritarian power grab and virtue signal dance.

In extremely populated cities with lots of virtue signal people, I can see shows in those specific circumstances selling well. But I've also seen tons and tons of people and companies flee from such areas to escape crushing restrictions. It may or may not make much of a dent since these kinds of cities are so massive and so populated anyway.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,220
So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance. This is why most events include the option to use a negative test instead of vax card because they know how badly these restrictions suppress attendance. The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine. It's not there to encourage fearful people to come to the event.
The majority of people who go to events are young, healthy, and unafraid. In contrast, the highest vax rates are among the very old and the very sick. This demographic does not usually go to as many events as the young and healthy. So when they require vax pass they are essentially banning their largest demographic. Hence, why most places don't require anything, or only require masks, or offer a negative test option, because they've seen how poor turnout is when they go hardcore vax-card-only method. The fearful and sick population don't make up for the 100000x times larger young, healthy, and unafraid population. Many of these fearful or sick people weren't going to go anywhere anyway, vax or not.
The “fearful and sick” population? The “young, healthy, and unafraid population”? “The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine”? What an arrogant, misinformed, judgmental post.
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,514
I'm one of the ~5% who despite having had 3 Pfizer vaccinations probably will derive minimal resistance to the crud. My one main defense is the monthly IVIG treatments which may have some antibodies passed on by vaccinated individuals. So yesterday I had a discussion with my oncologist about attending Nationals.

Her response was not encouraging. She indicated that the highest super-spreaders are those that occur in closed arenas and most specifically hockey tournaments or those with ice surfaces. That being said, she hypothesized that the high moisture environments attributable to the ice which is constantly evaporating, encourage virus proliferation. She also indicated about the questionable air filtration systems in certain arenas. Given that Bridgestone is over 25 years old, unless they have installed new systems, my faith in their efficacy is limited.

Also arena policy is that one may attend if fully vaccinated or in possession of a negative test is fraught with limitations. The rules specify either a negative PCR or antigen test within 72 hours of the event. The non-PCR type has a significant false negative rate. Some events are decreasing the acceptable timeframes for negative status to 48 hours. Bridgestone currently has a full masking policy for everyone over the age of 12 years except for when eating or drinking. I wonder how vigilant they are in terms of enforcing that policy. I also worry about those under the age of 12 who could be serious vectors of the virus.

Odds are that I will be putting my ticket up for resale in the not too distant future.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
48,813
Also arena policy is that one may attend if fully vaccinated or in possession of a negative test is fraught with limitations. The rules specify either a negative PCR or antigen test within 72 hours of the event. The non-PCR type has a significant false negative rate. Some events are decreasing the acceptable timeframes for negative status to 48 hours. Bridgestone currently has a full masking policy for everyone over the age of 12 years except for when eating or drinking. I wonder how vigilant they are in terms of enforcing that policy. I also worry about those under the age of 12 who could be serious vectors of the *****.
This isn't to make you change your mind but just to comment on a few things you said.

First, note that few kids that age make up a typical Nationals audience. Most kids are in school during the day so may show up for a few events with their parents but not the whole week. IME young kids make up less than 1% of the audience. On top of that, kids under 12 will probably be approved to get the Pfizer vaccine in the next weeks as Pfizer has just announced they are ready to apply for approval (and may already have). So I do think that most of the few kids in the arena under 12 will be vaccinated.

In terms of the masking policy, I think many people will be eating and drinking at any particular time. And we will be there for hours and hours. So I would expect spotty compliance and spotty enforcement. I also think by January that there is a good chance that the CDC recommendations will change. So this is something I plan to not worry about until closer to the event when we know what the recommendations actually will be.

If I don't go to nationals it will be because I don't want to take the time off work or can no longer afford it for various reasons I don't want to into here. 🤷‍♀️
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,514
This isn't to make you change your mind but just to comment on a few things you said.

First, note that few kids that age make up a typical Nationals audience. Most kids are in school during the day so may show up for a few events with their parents but not the whole week. IME young kids make up less than 1% of the audience. On top of that, kids under 12 will probably be approved to get the Pfizer vaccine in the next weeks as Pfizer has just announced they are ready to apply for approval (and may already have). So I do think that most of the few kids in the arena under 12 will be vaccinated.

In terms of the masking policy, I think many people will be eating and drinking at any particular time. And we will be there for hours and hours. So I would expect spotty compliance and spotty enforcement. I also think by January that there is a good chance that the CDC recommendations will change. So this is something I plan to not worry about until closer to the event when we know what the recommendations actually will be.

If I don't go to nationals it will be because I don't want to take the time off work or can no longer afford it for various reasons I don't want to into here. 🤷‍♀️

The concentration of young kids will happen predominantly during the women's performances, ones that I would like to see. And the likelihood that they will be vaccinated and/or wear their masks in a consistent fashion is not known. Given the current environment in Tennessee, this is not likely to be a particularly safe environment. The current positivity rate there is 17.9%, although down from 22% is still troublesome. The rate in Connecticut was 1.26% today as well as the hospitalization rate.

My previous information is not particularly directed at those who are not immunocompromised and not over the age the age of 65 without comorbidities. That being said, the delta variant is far more communicable and virulent as well as being opportunistic with respect to the previously relatively unaffected populations.

If this event was being held in the Northeast, I would have relatively few issues attending. A few weeks ago, I was at the Cranberry Open and felt totally safe.
 

Yuri

Well-Known Member
Messages
715
My plans to attend are up in the air for the opposite reasons as my Mom and I are worried that restrictions will be too strict and we have little interest in being masked up for hours on end for six days of practices and events when we live in a state without any meaningful restrictions since May. We both have natural immunity from nasty cases of the crud a year and a half ago, but of course that doesn't count in the politicized environment and there's zero chance that my 80-year old Mom will take a jab. Plus my job situation could change from self-employed to a new full-time job which could make taking a week off in January problematic. Especially with a 600-mile-plus drive as we are not planning on flying (and that's expensive) and our downtown hotel within walking distance is also quite expensive. It may just be less of a hassle to watch it on TV and dump our 4th row center tickets.

A separate question for those looking to sell their tickets for whatever reason (or scoop some up late)--have they shown up in Ticketmaster or any other online system yet? Is there a secondary market for them yet? At this point we have no way of selling our tickets (unless this recently changed) because I don't think we have the ability to list them for resale yet. Usually my NFL football season tickets have codes for online sale at least a month or two before preseason, but I don't know how it works for figure skating events. Two years ago we purchased all of our Nationals tickets by individual senior event via Ticketmaster a couple weeks in advance.
 

Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,774
So far, any large events in sports or other stuff with a vax pass has greatly suppressed attendance. This is why most events include the option to use a negative test instead of vax card because they know how badly these restrictions suppress attendance. The restriction is there to try to blackmail people into getting the vaccine. It's not there to encourage fearful people to come to the event.
The majority of people who go to events are young, healthy, and unafraid. In contrast, the highest vax rates are among the very old and the very sick. This demographic does not usually go to as many events as the young and healthy. So when they require vax pass they are essentially banning their largest demographic. Hence, why most places don't require anything, or only require masks, or offer a negative test option, because they've seen how poor turnout is when they go hardcore vax-card-only method. The fearful and sick population don't make up for the 100000x times larger young, healthy, and unafraid population. Many of these fearful or sick people weren't going to go anywhere anyway, vax or not.


If you are going to post bizarre statements like this they should be supported by facts. So what's your source for this claim that requiring a vaccine card has suppressed attendance. I can't find that info?




I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm pointing out that what you're describing was not a vaccinated environment, since you're the one who's saying people are going because they feel "safe" because everyone has been vaccinated, when in fact they were not.

So which is it? First you tell me they literally let 6,000 unvaccinated people walk in simply because they got the first shot the DAY BEFORE the game. Then you're saying they're only doing the app and no paper proof at all? (With my original point being the paper version is extremely easy to fake.)



You do realize that tons of people with the vaccine are getting it, right? The main point is they're less likely to end up hospitalized (supposedly. I'm continuing to watch the data on this in multiple countries). It absolutely can be a "super spreader" event, even if your event is truly full of vaccinated people and not people with just the first shot or fake paper cards or all of the other versions of not-really-vaccinated.
You've also got the variants cropping up, which is why they're pushing booster shot approval so hard (or you know, so they can make more money, but I'm sure its about "safety" too)

I'm not afraid or trying to spread fear, I'm just trying to point out the lunacy of this "safety" feeling everyone seems to be craving so badly. The majority of it is security theatre and doing nothing useful other than an authoritarian power grab and virtue signal dance.

In extremely populated cities with lots of virtue signal people, I can see shows in those specific circumstances selling well. But I've also seen tons and tons of people and companies flee from such areas to escape crushing restrictions. It may or may not make much of a dent since these kinds of cities are so massive and so populated anyway.
Oh yes you moved the goalpost.

And your motives are very clear. You are pushing your agenda and this is not the place for your campaign. Thank goodness for ignore!
 
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Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,774
My plans to attend are up in the air for the opposite reasons as my Mom and I are worried that restrictions will be too strict and we have little interest in being masked up for hours on end for six days of practices and events when we live in a state without any meaningful restrictions since May. We both have natural immunity from nasty cases of the crud a year and a half ago, but of course that doesn't count in the politicized environment and there's zero chance that my 80-year old Mom will take a jab. Plus my job situation could change from self-employed to a new full-time job which could make taking a week off in January problematic. Especially with a 600-mile-plus drive as we are not planning on flying (and that's expensive) and our downtown hotel within walking distance is also quite expensive. It may just be less of a hassle to watch it on TV and dump our 4th row center tickets.

A separate question for those looking to sell their tickets for whatever reason (or scoop some up late)--have they shown up in Ticketmaster or any other online system yet? Is there a secondary market for them yet? At this point we have no way of selling our tickets (unless this recently changed) because I don't think we have the ability to list them for resale yet. Usually my NFL football season tickets have codes for online sale at least a month or two before preseason, but I don't know how it works for figure skating events. Two years ago we purchased all of our Nationals tickets by individual senior event via Ticketmaster a couple weeks in advance.


The fact that you would consider travel with an 80 year old not vaccinated is terrifying I am sorry that you live someplace that has chosen not to protect her by requiring masking
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,514
My plans to attend are up in the air for the opposite reasons as my Mom and I are worried that restrictions will be too strict and we have little interest in being masked up for hours on end for six days of practices and events when we live in a state without any meaningful restrictions since May. We both have natural immunity from nasty cases of the crud a year and a half ago, but of course that doesn't count in the politicized environment and there's zero chance that my 80-year old Mom will take a jab. Plus my job situation could change from self-employed to a new full-time job which could make taking a week off in January problematic. Especially with a 600-mile-plus drive as we are not planning on flying (and that's expensive) and our downtown hotel within walking distance is also quite expensive. It may just be less of a hassle to watch it on TV and dump our 4th row center tickets.

A separate question for those looking to sell their tickets for whatever reason (or scoop some up late)--have they shown up in Ticketmaster or any other online system yet? Is there a secondary market for them yet? At this point we have no way of selling our tickets (unless this recently changed) because I don't think we have the ability to list them for resale yet. Usually my NFL football season tickets have codes for online sale at least a month or two before preseason, but I don't know how it works for figure skating events. Two years ago we purchased all of our Nationals tickets by individual senior event via Ticketmaster a couple weeks in advance.
Don't count on your natural immunity to last until then(have you been antigen-tested lately?) to prevent you from picking up the delta variant. And that is not a politicized statement; it's based on the science and recent evidence.

 
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overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
32,831
I'm not afraid or trying to spread fear, I'm just trying to point out the lunacy of this "safety" feeling everyone seems to be craving so badly. The majority of it is security theatre and doing nothing useful other than an authoritarian power grab and virtue signal dance.

And you are letting us know you're an anti-vaxxer looking for any excuse to spread your ill-informed nonsense. You lost any small bit of credibility you might have had on this issue as soon as you said "virtue signal" and "authoritarian".
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
70,670
Posted back in April:
The Renaissance is the official hotel.
Thanks! Link to check for updates: https://www.usfigureskating.org/event/2022-toyota-us-figure-skating-championships#Schedule
More detailed event schedule has been released since single event tickets are on sale:

Tuesday, Jan. 4
12:00 p.m. Session 1 - Junior Pairs Short Program and Junior Men Short Program
8:15 p.m. Session 2 - Junior Rhythm Dance

Wednesday, Jan. 5
9:00 a.m. Session 3 - Junior Ladies Short Program Free Skates/Dance
12:00 p.m. Session 4 - Junior Men Free Skate and Junior Pairs Free Skate
8:30 p.m. Session 5 - Junior Free Dance

Thursday, Jan. 6
11:45 a.m. Session 6 - Junior Ladies Free Skate
3:45 p.m. Session 7 - Championship Pairs Short Program
6:30 p.m. Session 8 - Championship Ladies Short Program

Friday, Jan. 7
2: 00 p.m. Session 9 - Championship Rhythm Dance
6:30 p.m. Session 10 - Championship Ladies Free Skate

Saturday, Jan. 8
2:00 p.m. Session 11 - Championship Men’s Short Program
5:45 p.m. Session 12 - Championship Pairs Free Skate
7:25 p.m. Session 13 - Championship Free Dance

Sunday, Jan. 9
11:15 a.m. Session 14 - Championship Men’s Free Skate
6:30 p.m. Session 15 - Skating Spectacular
 

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