The Skating Lesson

[Maddie Sparks]

They come off as petty and snide most of the time in these. Jonathan mocks anything that goes even somewhat out of the box, and Dave changes his tune from week to week so you never know who he's going to throw under the bus next. I watch it occasionally but take it for what it is.

 

[angi]

The irony is that there are some comments he made on Twitter for example that I actually agree with (about WeaPo's programs being disappointing and more of the same - putting it in my words not his obviously) but the way he say it is really off putting. Same for his videos, he might have a good point but it gets lost in the sea of snide comments. Today was even worse than usual since their comments were borderline misogynistic. I hope that TSL view count will keep dropping causing him to realize that if he won't change his ways he is not going to have a real following (Jackie Wong and Ted Flett are getting more and more popular - way more than him).

 

[arakwafan2006]

Who is Dave talking about when he says Christopher Dean complained that the skaters didn't know how to skate? Was it Alexa and Chris?

My question is, did Dean say it publically? Dave repeats things he hears in the inner circle and it's not meant to be repeated. For all I know, he was talking about Madison and Evan but I doubt it. He was NOT talking about Michelle Kwan though LOL.

 

[skatfan]

I kept this episode on in the background while I did some chores. Agreed with some, but laughed with the two of them doing their own particular scoring. I mean, wtf do I care? Found the whole thing so negative. They seem to feel that V/M owe them some kind of particular moment of skating Nirvana, while I see the two of them deciding to please themselves first, then think about positioning themselves for a continued Pro career after (hence Moulin Rouge) with more popular music choices. Moonlight Sonata may end up being all that with the French, but we'll see whether their nerves hold up.

I felt their criticism of Javi's FS was misplaced. I didn't find the program hokey, and it is beautiful music to skate to. Yes, the costuming will need work, but after critiquing all the skaters re-using their music, they advise him to re-up Guys and Dolls? Lol moment.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Reading this thread makes me miss The Manleywoman Skatecast. Man, her series was good.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I am about 75% done with the newest addition. Man, Dave is a bitter bitchy man. It should not be...how on earth do you just hate every damn piece of work by everyone? There is absolutely nothing impressive enough about Dave lease to where he should have some unfathomable time connecting to us lowly humans. To not like Moulin Rouge by Tessa and Scott...fine. They have not lost their minds. For starters, the were super smart to pick a style that is so opposite the French( if indeed they're doing Moonlight) and unlike ANY other team, Tessa and Scott can handle the dichotomy of the angst and fluidity. They need time and luck for them, they have it. I mean, if you listen to Dave, skating is in such a horrible place, we should find other sports to be fans of.



He's also wrong about Weaver and Poje. The work is gorgeous. Skating to a piece of music that is known is not bad. Spartacus, while not unheard of is not everyones go to piece. No, it's not like skating out of a dream but it's not far from it for them. Also, they're better than Piper and paul, period.

I don't know... i like that there is TSL, I like that Dave says things that some fans pretend don't exist but he is NO expert on the subject, he JUST learned how to spot a skaters body being out of sync on jumps and so now he's making recommendations? smh. Dude...

 

[VGThuy]

At least they still love Hubbell/Donohue...I think.

 

[Seerek]

And once again (like he does every season), Dave truly believes he is above watching the mid to lower tier skaters, tweeting during Skate Canada Autumn Classic that he would rather the Challenger Series events have seeded short program groups (code for "I'd rather not watch the non-contenders if I don't have to").

 

[tony]

I watched the first ten minutes. I think that's more than I've ever watched aside from the Kwan interview and maybe another interview or two.

I think the major problem is all of the side-stories and negativity constantly thrown in, which everyone else already knows and has pointed out.

But here's a summary of minutes 5 to about 10: They start to talk about Duhamel and Radford and their short program music choice, which turns into a bashing of not only that particular cover but for the entire pairs competition in general, which then turns into a bashing of the Canadian commentary team of Debbie Wilkes and Elise Hamel, where Jonathan even said something like her voice hurt his head. And they pointed out that the Canadians [commentators] are overly supportive, like that's an awful thing. Then it turned to a bashing of Meagan's costume and a flashback to the USA circa '98 Nationals, mentioning two skaters that only hardcore long-time fans are likely to remember. This is about five minutes of sidetracking and they still haven't really reviewed Duhamel and Radford. But they did want to point out that France only shows the events that French athletes are most competitive in during the Olympics.

It's like a comments section of a non-skating message board trying to review a skating event. A million different focuses every minute, and all on the wrong things. Just not for me.

 

[artsciboy]

When Jenny was on board, I loved the TSL. Now, I've decided that I'm giving it up. I listened to the Autumn Classific recap and was apalled by just how much shade they were trying to throw at skaters - Ashley Wagner in particular. Knowing how much Ashley has started to push back on Dave Lease and make it clear that she was having none of what TSL has been putting out about her the last two seasons only makes the shade that Dave and Jonathan have been throwing even more pathetic. Its no wonder that TSL has lost its sponsorships and hasn't been able to secure actual skating guests and co-hosts in quite some time.

 

[Rock2]

It's like a comments section of a non-skating message board trying to review a skating event. A million different focuses every minute, and all on the wrong things. Just not for me.

That I definitely agree with. I asked myself early on what event/discipline were they actually talking about because I couldn't tell.
I then decided if they were going to multi-task, so should I....and started folding laundry while the vid rolled.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I watched the first ten minutes. I think that's more than I've ever watched aside from the Kwan interview and maybe another interview or two.

I think the major problem is all of the side-stories and negativity constantly thrown in, which everyone else already knows and has pointed out.

But here's a summary of minutes 5 to about 10: They start to talk about Duhamel and Radford and their short program music choice, which turns into a bashing of not only that particular cover but for the entire pairs competition in general, which then turns into a bashing of the Canadian commentary team of Debbie Wilkes and Elise Hamel, where Jonathan even said something like her voice hurt his head. And they pointed out that the Canadians [commentators] are overly supportive, like that's an awful thing. Then it turned to a bashing of Meagan's costume and a flashback to the USA circa '98 Nationals, mentioning two skaters that only hardcore long-time fans are likely to remember. This is about five minutes of sidetracking and they still haven't really reviewed Duhamel and Radford. But they did want to point out that France only shows the events that French athletes are most competitive in during the Olympics.

It's like a comments section of a non-skating message board trying to review a skating event. A million different focuses every minute, and all on the wrong things. Just not for me.

You have to wonder if David has some form of ADD, the way he jumps all over the place. From your play by play of the episode, that recap sounds positively exhausting.

I'm only speculating here, but the difference between a TSL vlog and say, Icenetwork, is that I get the impression the IN team have a clear and direct written reference plan on what they want to cover in any given recap.

Jackie Wong, Nick McCarvel and Lynn Rutherford are so informative yet succinct with their points. I also get the impression, that they talk through everything first before committing anything to air.

TSL seems to just wing it, and say whatever comes to mind at the time.

 

[Xela M]

Is there a new video that came out because I don't remember the V&M and D&R comments on the previous one (I may not have been paying attention)

Anyway, I've missed the show a tiny bit during the off season and I actually like the little gossipy pieces of information we wouldn't get in the mainstream coverage. And Dave's sources always seem to come good

 

[kittysk8ts]

For me the most disappointing comments from this latest video were not even from Dave, but from Jonathan. Regarding V/M's programs choices he said they had chosen "the lowest common denominator". Ouch. An arrow to my heart and so unnecessarily insulting. And then Dave's constant bashing of Canadians. He finds a way in every video to mock Canada and its people. These are just my personal impressions and often these gratuitous insults get in the way of me objectively trying to understand their actually commentary on the SKATING. And as someone said upthread: do they even LIKE skating?

Haha. Anyway, these are entirely my issues and I can choose to stop anytime.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Jackie Wong and especially Tedd Flett are as if not even more biased and say nutty things that don't make any sense (especially when it comes to Flett if you watch their videos and comments on skating forums). Jackie Wong while generally good frequently overlooks and justifies bad judging when it comes to certain skaters. Flett frequently spreads misinformation as part of an agenda supporting whatever mostly Canadian skaters he likes (i.e., really skaters other than Hanyu and Papadakis/Cizeron to name those two). I don't find the things that either Dave, Jonathan, Flett, or Jackie say or tweet to be as worse or annoying as the other.

I also agreed with everything he said about V/M free dance. What a cheesy choice for a team of that level and I could barely sit through it in the arena.

Javier's SP is okay (I like the step sequence) and also agree that some portions of the FS seem dated due to the music, and the final music just makes me think of Valley of the dolls.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Javier's SP is okay (I like the step sequence) and also agree that some portions of the FS seem dated due to the music, and the final music just makes me think of Valley of the dolls.

Off topic, but that reminds me of the film, Blades of Glory, when Amy Poehler and Will Arnett did a Marilyn Monroe / JFK tribute (with Poehler's character spitting prescription medication all over the ice).

 

[manhn]

Jonathan has never liked V&M, so don't mind him

 

[Marco]

I don't agree with them all the time (seldom actually, although we both share deep love for Marin Honda) and feel they are rude sometimes. But they do occasionally make good observations which I would otherwise have missed. I only really look for these when I watch them now. Not a fan of gossip and snark there (much prefer doing that here ).

 

[aftershocks]

I felt their criticism of Javi's FS was misplaced. I didn't find the program hokey, and it is beautiful music to skate to. Yes, the costuming will need work, but after critiquing all the skaters re-using their music, they advise him to re-up Guys and Dolls? Lol moment.

I totally agree that Dave comes off every which way but loose from broadcast to broadcast, and I agree with @angi and @Marco that Dave sometimes points out things and offers insights that I agree with. He's just so dismissive and rotten cruel at other times. And I believe he thinks it's funny, and at the same time he feels that he's not being disrespectful. Did you see the way Dave responded defensively to a Youtube poster on their latest This 'n That broadcast?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OSxf6iBpWw Finlandia wrap-up TSL

There are actually a lot of interesting posted comments by fans re the above broadcast. One poster even offered a helpful timeline to the broadcast:

33:16 - Finlandia, Adam Rippon, and the Olympics spots for American men
41:24 - Boyang Jin
43:40 - Peng/Jin
47:38 - Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch

1:45 - Ashley Wagner ~6:00 - Japan Open
8:57 - Mirai Nagasu
12:06 - Karen Chen / lol gofundme for a choreographer. BRILLIANT IDEA!!!

I agree with Dave's positive comments about Peng/Jin, I/M, Mirai and P/C. In general, I agree re Boyang's improvements, but he still skates over his music. I think Lori working with Nathan has inspired her to try and create a similar movement style aesthetic for Boyang who granted is a good pupil. But Nathan does Nathan better. I agree that Karen needs better choreography and she perhaps should have kept her On Golden Pond sp for this season. Peng/Jin have certainly clicked well and I can see exciting things for them ahead. I like Peng/Jin's programs best of all the Chinese pairs this season.

The comments about the contest between U.S. men is interesting. And while I tend to agree with some of the critiques of Adam's skating, I totally disagree with the harsh dismissive snarkiness of Dave's tone. Also Dave refused to own up to his nastiness toward Ashley, which commenters called him on. Both Jonathan and Dave were unnecessarily harsh and critical toward Polina and Gabby. It's terrible to put skaters down in that way. It's one thing to offer a valid critique, but quite another to be so nasty and dismissive. That's hurtful.

I think Gabby's music for the sp doesn't work well, and it seems like these programs were a good idea on paper, but not in overall execution re concept and choreo. I think the fp could use some tweaking and it might work better. However, it just doesn't seem to enhance what Gabby does well. Maybe they were trying to go for lyrical, when they should probably stay with powerful and dynamic. Again, there was no need for Dave and Jonathan to slam with snarky laughter.

And btw, clearly Ted Flett, Jackie Wong, and Nick McCarvel are the Jay Leno friendly, status-quo variety of figure skating commentators, while TSL with Dave Lease is more snarkier David Letterman rebel bad boy who wants to be liked regardless of his behavior.

 

[Anyasnake]

And btw, clearly Ted Flett, Jackie Wong, and Nick McCarvel are the Jay Leno friendly status quo variety of figure skating commentators, while TSL with Dave Lease is more snarkier David Letterman rebel bad boy who wants to be liked regardless of his behavior.

Even though they can be cruel towards certain skaters borderline offensive for some of their fans... I'm almost addicted to their recaps. And I'm waiting to hear their opinion after every competition. Believe it or not, having some sort of skating talk show is the highlight of my week. Even though I can't stand some of their comments.

 

[aftershocks]

Even though they can be cruel towards certain skaters borderline offensive for some of their fans... I'm almost addicted to their recaps. And I'm waiting to hear their opinion after every competition. Believe it or not, having some sort of skating talk show is the highlight of my week. Even though I can't stand some of their comments.

Yeah, I can understand your addiction. It's hard finding a place where there's enough coverage of what's happening in figure skating. Everything is so disparate and unconnected on forums, blogs and occasional podcasts. I do like some of Dave's insider knowledge, but he's just too self-centered and seemingly unaware of how to stop coming across so crass and rude. I wish there was a more enlightened type of weekly figure skating show where fearless, outside-the-box discussion could take place without the snark. And I would appreciate a more revealing and insightful historical approach. Other sports like tennis, baseball and football have commentators who understand more about the history of those sports and how it impacts what's happening currently. Not so in figure skating.

 

[aftershocks]

It's like a comments section of a non-skating message board trying to review a skating event. A million different focuses every minute, and all on the wrong things.

Right. Dave's completely disorganized with his approach and way too snarky, despite having some interesting insights. Unfortunately, he turns many people off before they can hear anything of value they might find informative or halfway agree with. He needs editing, he needs better focus, and he needs to tone down his oversize 'me-me' ego. I watch because I'm interested in figure skating, but it's a slog and less relevant and organized since Jenny's departure. As someone mentioned a long time ago, Jonathan is too similar to Dave in his views and approach, even though he's more lighthearted and smiley.

Reading this thread makes me miss The Manleywoman Skatecast. Man, her series was good.

ITA. Fortunately, Allison still has her archived podcast up and available. I'm sure that TSL and OpenKwongDore were inspired by @manleywoman's podcast. Allison always said though that her focus was specifically on retired and non-eligible skaters, and former skaters who are now coaches. She did also tape interviews at U.S. Nationals events. And she finally got her dream interview with Dick Button too. It's a treasure trove podcast that I still have yet to fully mine. It's very instructive, enlightening and in touch with the sport's history, as most coverage is not and rarely has been.

 

[wouldacoulda]

I wish TSL would switch from video to podcast. We're just watching two talking heads, and it doesn't appear that the co-hosts will be rotating any time soon. I'd prefer a well-produced podcast. They can switch back to video if and when they do live interviews. And they can do a little editing as well, to tighten it up.

 

[VGThuy]

ITA. Fortunately, Allison still has her archived podcast up and available. I'm sure that TSL and OpenKwongDore were inspired by @manleywoman's podcast. Allison always said though that her focus was specifically on retired and non-eligible skaters, and former skaters who are now coaches. She did also tape interviews at U.S. Nationals events. And she finally got her dream interview with Dick Button too. It's a treasure trove podcast that I still have yet to fully mine. It's very instructive, enlightening and in touch with the sport's history, as most coverage is not and rarely has been.

Agreed. Her podcast is the gold standard. Her interviews were intelligent, respectful, inputted real skating history while being highly entertaining. You got a sense with most of them that the interviewee felt extremely comfortable and open with Allison Manley.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Right, Allison is an adult skater herself with a passion for the sport. She was always well-prepared, respectful and engaging while also exhibiting a delightful sense of humor, and modesty. Nobody's perfect, but she always strove to improve and she was dedicated to what she was doing and to receiving and implementing advice from her listeners.

 

[Marco]

Editing to add snippets of skating performances into the recap videos can be tricky because of technical, timing and copyright reasons.

What's annoying is they opened so many beginnings but never followed through. Like part two of interviews, that interview with Dick Button that they said they would post, all the TSL Road vids, all the judging exercises that they said they would do...

 

[bardtoob]

ITA. Fortunately, Allison still has her archived podcast up and available. I'm sure that TSL and OpenKwongDore were inspired by @manleywoman's podcast. Allison always said though that her focus was specifically on retired and non-eligible skaters, and former skaters who are now coaches. She did also tape interviews at U.S. Nationals events. And she finally got her dream interview with Dick Button too. It's a treasure trove podcast that I still have yet to fully mine. It's very instructive, enlightening and in touch with the sport's history, as most coverage is not and rarely has been.

Lots of love to @manleywoman

 

[wouldacoulda]

Editing to add snippets of skating performances into the recap videos can be tricky because of technical, timing and copyright reasons.

What's annoying is they opened so many beginnings but never followed through. Like part two of interviews, that interview with Dick Button that they said they would post, all the TSL Road vids, all the judging exercises that they said they would do...

Makes me wonder if those who took part in the un-aired interviews had a change of heart. After the Frank/Gold split discussions on TSL, I imagine Linda F. may have wanted to distance herself.

 

[all_empty]

Going to play the contrarian here.

Yes, I do miss Jenny's technical expertise but I don't mind Jonathan. I actually think Dave's presentation has improved -- he used to have this frenetic, eye-bulging style that was distracting.

They've adopted this drag queen "reading" (critcizing) that a lot of shows are doing. It's fine for what it is. I just put it on, turn the volume up, and go chop some veggies.

No that wasn't an Elvis "read." I literally mean chopping veggies for dinner.

 

[marbri]

He doesn't have any interviews with interesting people anymore which was the only reason i would watch so what exactly is he offering now? His opinion?