2025 Cup of China Free Dance PBP - Grabbing The Bull By The Scores

I found Gabi's commentary quite good actually. Her dissection of how the two French teams here differed was, imo, excellent and offered insights I've never heard other from other dance commentators make before.

I, again, took her comments about Z/K's program being not memorable because, even though they skated it well, when we get R&J's every season what makes this especially likely to lodge in your brain? How many "R&J" or "Moulin Rouge" or "Exogenesis" programs really stick in your memory (for reasons that they were brilliant and not, like in the case of Ashley Wagner, where it was because it was skated for 10 seasons in a row :P )?
 
Hope Olivia’s okay after her fall in the exhibition. I adore their football themed exhibition and use of Chumbawamba’s “Tubthumping”. Everyone was right by saying choosing a song that has lyrics about falling is pushing fate. Granted she fell on third song in their exhibition “Freed from Desire.” I may be in the minority, but I love their Dune 2 program. For me it’s just like loving the movies Home Alone and Hocus Pocus, but also loving their sequels. The first edition always has a special place in my heart while the second one continues a story I wanted to revisit. It’s also interesting that they were thinking about doing a Matrix program and the very last song in this year’s FD is from the Matrix.

For me, Z/G, are more Benedick and Beatrice coded than Romeo and Juliet based on their on ice personalities. With their costuming and first pose, I feel like they could even go the route of portraying Rosaline and Benvolio from the book adaption of Still-Star Crossed. That first pose could be them at the funeral for Romeo and Juliet.
 
peibeck said:
I found Gabi's commentary quite good actually. Her dissection of how the two French teams here differed was, imo, excellent and offered insights I've never heard other from other dance commentators make before.

I, again, took her comments about Z/K's program being not memorable because, even though they skated it well, when we get R&J's every season what makes this especially likely to lodge in your brain? How many "R&J" or "Moulin Rouge" or "Exogenesis" programs really stick in your memory (for reasons that they were brilliant and not, like in the case of Ashley Wagner, where it was because it was skated for 10 seasons in a row :P )?
Click to expand...
Prokofiev's R&J isn't used as much as the Kissing You one or Rota's or even the latest version. I couldn't remember another Prokofiev one other than Annisina's.

It wasn't just what she said but how she said it. I think she needs to work A LOT on her delivery. She'll make a good point here and there, like when she poo-pooed Johnny's notion that spinning with a partner is the same as spining alone, but overall I don't think she's ready for the primetime Olympic spotlight.
 
peibeck said:
I found Gabi's commentary quite good actually. Her dissection of how the two French teams here differed was, imo, excellent and offered insights I've never heard other from other dance commentators make before.

I, again, took her comments about Z/K's program being not memorable because, even though they skated it well, when we get R&J's every season what makes this especially likely to lodge in your brain? How many "R&J" or "Moulin Rouge" or "Exogenesis" programs really stick in your memory (for reasons that they were brilliant and not, like in the case of Ashley Wagner, where it was because it was skated for 10 seasons in a row :P )?
Click to expand...
With the occasional exception, I don't believe it's the music that makes a program memorable. I think it's the program itself and the way it's skated. This one had a lot of drama and passion and interesting movement, for me.
 
Matryeshka said:
D/LM Costumes scream Tron. This is so purely French it almost hurts. This here is some grade A feckery. My interpretation is this is an FU to the French Federation and the first part is them bringing out the mummy's curse against them cause they are the true legends and they continue to skate in this mundane world, bringing their art and pain as weapons, French mummy weapons if you will, against the cruelty of meddling Canadians :drama: :drama:
Click to expand...
D/LM costumes scream League of Legends, more specifically Arcane. It looks like a mix between the look of Piltover's police, Mel Medarda's look,and a hint of Jinx/Vi colored hair and Zaun's chemtech. Give them big size fantasy weapons, one accessory each (like steampunk goggles or something) and they are ready for cosplay and conventions.

Problems are :
  • the League of Legends' universe is not on the radar of the 40+ years old and people who don't play video games.
  • the program features the lore of League of Legends (2 of its champions, Jhin and Amumu) which will be fun for League of Legends fans but troubling for others.
  • but mostly, the program does not build up like it should because it doesn't maximize the "mortal danger" feeling in the first part.
Make Jhin's quotes really creepy (like adding a loading gun sound after the opening "the stage is set, you will be poetry" or a sword sound after "which is a lie ? the mask or my face ?")
Add a dose of devastating explosion sound on the climax of Amumu's song.
Don't let the spectators wonder about those characters. They simply must radiate "danger". They don't radiate enough right now.
Then work on details of the choreo to emphasize the tone of each part. I'm pretty sure that would help the interpretation.
A world of inescapable (willful or fateful) danger / a world of inescapable combat, no need of a degree in League of Legends' lore to get that dynamic.
The thing with D/LM last FDs is that they are like slingshots. You must create a properly dosed tension in the first part to get the desired effect in the last part of the program. 2 seasons ago, the doses were perfect right away.

Good things are :
  • as usual, Arribert digs into new territories for ice dance and makes new bridges. It usually means ice dance people get cranky. Because that's unusual.
  • as usual, she treats a subject, like video game, as she would treat any other subject, including more "noble" ones, by going to its fundamental dynamic instead of mimicking a story
  • as often, she makes her dancers skate their ages, not their parents'
  • it contributes to make ice dance relevant for a younger public as she recognizes the value of their pop culture
  • the door she's opening is a black hole for people over 40 (me included, until I watched some videos on Youtube last year ; I've watched Arcane but I'm far too old to have played League of Legends). But what's beyond is BIG.
  • League of Legends is a MMO, played by millions of people over the world. That thing has a crazy big economy. Its editor Riot had a 3 billions dollars turnover before they relased any other video game.
  • and beyond its casual players, it has a globalized esport stage with continental leagues, a world championship and sponsorships (and opening shows) that would make any sport federation blemish.
  • Arcane - which is an exercise in creating a League of Legends extended universe (along with various medias, like comic books, card games, etc ...) and deepening characters' backstories - is a masterpiece and has been a roaring success on Netflix. It has extended the reach of League of Legends beyond gamers. (Plus Arcane is something that the french are particularly aware and proud of, as the foundation of its success, its animation, is 100% french. And it is the current apex of what french animation has fought for long in the West : animation for everyone, not just for kids). But that show is merely the tip of an iceberg visible only by younger generations.
  • iceberg are too big to be ignored
  • a bigger iceberg would be video games in general ; so in the same vein, my next wish for Villard is a FD on Expedition 33. Thanks in advance.
 
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Fun hobbies from ISU bios: kolesnik enjoys “eating Cocoa Puffs.” Lopareva: “forgetting things.” Wang: “lying down.”

Agreed that chock/bates need a redo. paint it black is silly as a flamenco, skirt is a disaster waiting to happen, and the lace diaper and boob-lero top are fashion don’ts.

Very sad for Green/Parsons and hoping Michael heals quickly.
 
hlp728 said:
For me, Z/G, are more Benedick and Beatrice coded than Romeo and Juliet based on their on ice personalities. With their costuming and first pose, I feel like they could even go the route of portraying Rosaline and Benvolio from the book adaption of Still-Star Crossed. That first pose could be them at the funeral for Romeo and Juliet.
Click to expand...
Has anyone ever skated to the 1994 Much Ado About Nothing soundtrack? I think it's got some very skatable - and danceable - tracks and I'd be much more excited about a team brining the Beatrice and Benedick dynamic to their FD than yet another R&J. (Also more age appropriate for most senior teams nowadays.)
 
Belsornia said:
Has anyone ever skated to the 1994 Much Ado About Nothing soundtrack? I think it's got some very skatable - and danceable - tracks and I'd be much more excited about a team brining the Beatrice and Benedick dynamic to their FD than yet another R&J. (Also more age appropriate for most senior teams nowadays.)
Click to expand...
That’s the Branagh/Thompson version? One of my favorite Shakespeare films. It would make for a great flirty FD for Z/K or even LaLa. Or Bek/Hern to honor British culture. :)
 
Nmsis said:
D/LM costumes scream League of Legends, more specifically Arcane. It looks like a mix between the look of Piltover's police, Mel Medarda's look,and a hint of Jinx/Vi colored hair and Zaun's chemtech. Give them big size fantasy weapons, one accessory each (like steampunk goggles or something) and they are ready for cosplay and conventions.

Problems are :
  • the League of Legends' universe is not on the radar of the 40+ years old and people who don't play video games.
  • the program features the lore of League of Legends (2 of its champions, Jhin and Amumu) which will be fun for League of Legends fans but troubling for others.
  • but mostly, the program does not build up like it should because it doesn't maximize the "mortal danger" feeling in the first part.
Make Jhin's quotes really creepy (like adding a loading gun sound after the opening "the stage is set, you will be poetry" or a sword sound after "which is a lie ? the mask or my face ?")
Add a dose of devastating explosion sound on the climax of Amumu's song.
Don't let the spectators wonder about those characters. They simply must radiate "danger". They don't radiate enough right now.
Then work on details of the choreo to emphasize the tone of each part. I'm pretty sure that would help the interpretation.
A world of inescapable (willful or fateful) danger / a world of inescapable combat, no need of a degree in League of Legends' lore to get that dynamic.
The thing with D/LM last FDs is that they are like slingshots. You must create a properly dosed tension in the first part to get the desired effect in the last part of the program. 2 seasons ago, the doses were perfect right away.

Good things are :
  • as usual, Arribert digs into new territories for ice dance and makes new bridges. It usually means ice dance people get cranky. Because that's unusual.
  • as usual, she treats a subject, like video game, as she would treat any other subject, including more "noble" ones, by going to its fundamental dynamic instead of mimicking a story
  • as often, she makes her dancers skate their ages, not their parents'
  • it contributes to make ice dance relevant for a younger public as she recognizes the value of their pop culture
  • the door she's opening is a black hole for people over 40 (me included, until I watched some videos on Youtube last year ; I've watched Arcane but I'm far too old to have played League of Legends). But what's beyond is BIG.
  • League of Legends is a MMO, played by millions of people over the world. That thing has a crazy big economy. Its editor Riot had a 3 billions dollars turnover before they relased any other video game.
  • and beyond its casual players, it has a globalized esport stage with continental leagues, a world championship and sponsorships (and opening shows) that would make any sport federation blemish.
  • Arcane - which is an exercise in creating a League of Legends extended universe (along with various medias, like comic books, card games, etc ...) and deepening characters' backstories - is a masterpiece and has been a roaring success on Netflix. It has extended the reach of League of Legends beyond gamers. (Plus Arcane is something that the french are particularly aware and proud of, as the foundation of its success, its animation, is 100% french. And it is the current apex of what french animation has fought for long in the West : animation for everyone, not just for kids). But that show is merely the tip of an iceberg visible only by younger generations.
  • iceberg are too big to be ignored
  • a bigger iceberg would be video games in general ; so in the same vein, my next wish for Villard is a FD on Expedition 33. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
This is an entirely new world for me, stuff I've never heard of. But - your descriptions of the problems with their dance were helpful. There's no drama in it, no tension. I watched it, while appreciating the costumes as interesting and unusual, wondering WTF it was about, and feeling like I got no answers. It needs some drama, both in the voice overs/sound effects, and in choreography that reacts to them. If there's an explosion let the dancers explode. It's one of the reasons I so very much love Dune2. The choreography is a tension filled illustration of the sounds we're hearing, over and over all the way to the end.

I watched Dune 1 and Dune 2 back to back, and while others have mentioned preferring Dune 1, or disparaged Dune 2 as simply a retread, I found it to be a compelling extension of the first one.
 
Belsornia said:
Has anyone ever skated to the 1994 Much Ado About Nothing soundtrack? I think it's got some very skatable - and danceable - tracks and I'd be much more excited about a team brining the Beatrice and Benedick dynamic to their FD than yet another R&J. (Also more age appropriate for most senior teams nowadays.)
Click to expand...
Love that music too! Singles skater/Olympic Champion Tara Lipinski used it years ago….a program I still love to this day.
 
Tinycities said:
I’m listening to the NBC recap and I find it very surprising how negative gabi was about Zingas/kolesnik, called them simple and unoriginal multiple times.
Click to expand...

Gabi is close friends with Madi Hubbell, who is one of Car/Pon's coaches. Zingas/Kolesnik have gained some on Car/Pon in the early part of this season.

I'm sure Christina and Anthony are looking to reassert dominance at Skate Canada next weekend. Gabi may be pulling for her friend's team and some of that might have leaked out into her commentating.
 
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As soon as I read the description of Gabi’s remarks, I wondered where on the Ice Dance Matrix she was re:Z/K. She has no grudge against Igor, it would seem, she never trained with him.

So that theory makes sense.
 
LilJen said:
Agreed that chock/bates need a redo. paint it black is silly as a flamenco, skirt is a disaster waiting to happen, and the lace diaper and boob-lero top are fashion don’ts.
Click to expand...
Yes, please. I just now got to watch this dance and I had to turn it off before it finished I disliked it so much. They’ll be lucky to be on the Olympic podium at all with this mess.
 
Belsornia said:
Has anyone ever skated to the 1994 Much Ado About Nothing soundtrack? I think it's got some very skatable - and danceable - tracks and I'd be much more excited about a team brining the Beatrice and Benedick dynamic to their FD than yet another R&J. (Also more age appropriate for most senior teams nowadays.)
Click to expand...
Tonya Harding skated to it for her 1994 SP.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be
 
skateboy said:
Tonya Harding skated to it for her 1994 SP.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be
Click to expand...

Much Ado became really popular on the intermediate/novice/junior regional circuit after Tara skated to it. Another Shakespeare related piece that was prevalent among that crowd was Shakepeare in Love but somehow that never really broke through into the senior ranks. I always loved the opening track of that score.
 
Nmsis said:
the League of Legends' universe is not on the radar of the 40+ years old and people who don't play video games.
Click to expand...
I would also say that many of us who are somewhat aware that there is a very popular video game called League of Legends -- so it is technically on our radar-- still have no idea about any details. When the program was announced, I thought, "Oh, League of Legends, that's that game my son plays," and "Arcane, I've heard of that somewhere. It's ... um, Anime?"

So, yes, it's both very popular and very niche at the same time.
 
My main issue with Gabi is that she talks too much during the program.
During a skate, I prefer short comments focused on technique, significance of a skill, how someone compares to competitors, etc. Maybe a brief opinion here and there, but not long speeches openly driven by opinion.
 
Alilou said:
I got no answers. It needs some drama, both in the voice overs/sound effects, and in choreography that reacts to them. If there's an explosion let the dancers explode. It's one of the reasons I so very much love Dune2. The choreography is a tension filled illustration of the sounds we're hearing, over and over all the way to the end.
Click to expand...
IAM Montréal is known to have the best sound design.
Dune is very relatable because its choreo and music are an illustration of simple concepts : hieratism, desert, incoming danger, etc... with a dramatic tension building. It's make concepts "palpable". It's very well done.

The thing is that D/LM choreo wants to establish a complex concept.
It's that the danger in this world comes from dynamics bigger than individuals, in which they are set or teared. People don't fight because they are evil. Mortal enemies (even dark characters) have backstories that explain who they are and why they do what they do, even when what they do is horrible and/or heartbreaking (memories of Arcane ; one big desperate "nooooo, don't do that, pleeeeease !" after another from the viewing side .... lol). There is no good side vs evil side.

How can that concept be translated sound-wise?
My guess is to translate the concept of danger into chilling sounds.
Dark character with somber lines .... sharp chilling dangerous sounds
Goodwilling character stuck in a personal tragedy ... chilling big devastating sound.
It must talk to our brain's most basic reflexes, not let it immediatly wonder what it is all about.
 
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Nmsis said:
IAM Montréal is known to have the best sound design.
Dune is very relatable because its choreo and music are an illustration of simple concepts : hieratism, desert, incoming danger, etc... with a dramatic tension building. It's make concepts "palpable". It's very well done.

The thing is that D/LM choreo wants to establish a complex concept.
It's that the danger in this world comes from dynamics bigger than individuals, in which they are set or teared. People don't fight because they are evil. Mortal enemies (even dark characters) have backstories that explain who they are and why they do what they do, even when what they do is horrible and/or heartbreaking (memories of Arcane ; one big desperate "nooooo, don't do that, pleeeeease !" after another from the viewing side .... lol). There is no good side vs evil side.

How can that concept be translated sound-wise?
My guess is to translate the concept of danger into chilling sounds.
Dark character with somber lines .... sharp chilling dangerous sounds
Goodwilling character stuck in a personal tragedy ... chilling big devastating sound.
It must talk to our brain's most basic reflexes, not let it immediatly wonder what it is all about.
Click to expand...
Yes, and this is what I see/experience from Dune 2, and what I'd like to see from D/LM. Even if I don't understand the story, I'd like to be more transported by it - in their passion and in the choreography. I do hope they rework it more and more as the season goes on. They have such potential. And Arribert usually does wonderful work.
 
MacMadame said:
Reddit is more than the skating forum. It's a pretty wild and weird place overall.
Click to expand...
Reddit is more or less a bunch of forums on almost anything and everything at once from which you can pick and choose. I don’t think it’s anymore wild and weird than other social media sites, or even here at FSU. We have our own subculture, vernacular, inside jokes, and decades of relationships. Some of us still talk about voids. :lol:

I myself prefer Reddit to any other social media site. It’s pretty much the only one I use on a regular basis.
 
I don't disagree that Reddit can get weird, but in this case it was maybe one or two commenters suggesting a ban, out of the whole thread. There were plenty of others who were being more rational about it.
 
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