Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[MsZem]

This thread is getting into the same tired old arguments again ....

Well, didn't the documentary do the same thing?

 

[airgelaal]

Well, didn't the documentary do the same thing?

We need to wait a bit and Harry's book will be released. There they will explain once again to all those who did not understand something after the interview with Oprah and this documentary
I wonder if there will be a second season?

 

[Judy]

The Netflix documentary .. yeah .. Diana kinda said the same type of things. Impossible situation for the outsiders coming into the family. The business side is more important then the people in the family.

Hopefully that can change someday. Probably not though. I’m genuinely happy that Meghan and Harry are happy escaping that. Their life and there choice. None of us here would be happy with family controlling every aspect of your life. It would be unbearable.

 

[becca]

I can't believe people think that is a good analogy. I think it's the worst one yet. Harry & Meghan weren't asking for "the family and the whole country" to "throw all their strength" into their security. They also weren't in a line either.

They were arranging their lives and found out at the last minute that something important they thought was settled had to be redone and it wasn't paid for anymore. Then, later, when they wanted to go to the UK, they couldn't make arrangements that satisfied them. Nothing they were doing or wanted was taking away from anyone else, neither from the UK nor from other royals.

And, if you want to use the ER analogy (as much as it doesn't make any sense), it's more like H&M showed up at the ER and their kids were bleeding but the ER said "sorry, all these other people were here before you."

A better analogy is that a hurricane was coming and their dad said, sorry... I need that plywood back so you can't board up your windows. Go buy some new plywood even though you only have 2 hours before the hurricane arrives.

They left the UK. Their home on the UK was on one of the queens estates so there was some security there already. By leaving they were Sticking and everyone with an astronomical bill.

There are other UK celebrities who i am sure face threats who don’t get the same kind of security the queen gets.

I think there was poor planning on their part.

 

[MacMadame]

Why couldn't they clarify all the details in advance?

Read @skategal's post. It explains it all.

And being a victim of racism is much worse than being the victim of rudeness. Black people in the US have to worry about being killed by racists. No one worries about people being killed because someone was rude to them.

 

[airgelaal]

And being a victim of racism is much worse than being the victim of rudeness. Black people in the US have to worry about being killed by racists. No one worries about people being killed because someone was rude to them.

I don't think that Mark David Chapman was racists, but that didn't stop him from killing John Lennon. Britney Spears is a white woman, but the paparazzi brought her to serious psychological problems. Then her experience, as I understand it, also cannot be compared with Meghan's experience, since Meghan always suffered more, because she is not white. russians kill my fellow citizens every day simply because we are Ukrainians. But they are not racists and we are white, and it is clearly more difficult for the victims of racists than for us.
What Kate experienced was not rudeness, but real bullying. Victims of bulling also die. And yes, I believe Meghan was also a victim of bullying. But the topic of racism is probably louder, especially in the US, where they now live.
As a person who has worked all his life in the media and next to celebrities, I am a real cynic. I really liked Meghan and Harry, but now I see only an attempt to earn attention and money.

 

[MacMadame]

Then her experience, as I understand it, also cannot be compared with Meghan's experience, since Meghan always suffered more, because she is not white.

She was talking about her and Kate, not about her and other random celebrities.

 

[MsZem]

Read @skategal's post. It explains it all.

It doesn't explain what plan they had to live independently using their own (substantial) means. Both came from a background of getting things comped and paid for by others (Harry as a royal, Meghan as a celebrity/influencer), and it seems like they expected that to continue into their new life. And indeed, someone they didn't even know comped them a house, which I can't imagine he'd do for random people dealing with safety and security issues.

It's possible to feel empathy for both Harry and Meghan while still questioning parts of their narrative and actions. And I certainly understand why @airgelaal doesn't have much patience for some it these days.

 

[Judy]

As I see this situation.
You have a child and he is sick. He is very ill and you are taking him to the hospital. At the hospital, you ask the doctors to examine him immediately. But in the hospital they explain to you that the doctor will examine the child as soon as possible. You are in a panic, your baby is very sick. You start to make a fuss about being ignored. That your child may die and you must be helped immediately. You can be understood, you are the parent of a sick child. But in the hospital, your child is not the only one, and other children feel bad too. Their parents are also worried. Doctors cannot abandon all children and run to yours. Your child wasn't rushed to not because he had the wrong color of skin, eyes or hair. It's just that the hospital has a protocol and follows it. It would be a lot more cynical if they did it just because you're a celebrity.
I can understand the feelings of Meghan and Harry. I can understand their fears. But this does not mean that the family and the whole country should have thrown all their strength into their defense. Just because the rest of the royal family or the rest of the celebrities aren't screaming about their feelings doesn't mean they're completely safe. It's not just celebrities who are being threatened. Ordinary people are also threatened and these are not ordinary words. They also need protection. I understand that Harry may feel that his situation is unique. But when a woman runs away from her husband, who beats her and threatens to kill her, she is no less scared. And her chances of being killed are many times greater.
Again, I don't think Harry and Meghan's fears and worries are made up. But it seems to me that it is they who do not consider the fears and experiences of other people to be something important.

You likely can’t watch it in Ukraine .. even if you weren’t being attacked ?. I think you’d better understand if you could watch it. Understandable if it’s not available in other countries and worse with what you’re going through over there.

 

[Allskate]

As I see this situation.
You have a child and he is sick. He is very ill and you are taking him to the hospital. At the hospital, you ask the doctors to examine him immediately. But in the hospital they explain to you that the doctor will examine the child as soon as possible. You are in a panic, your baby is very sick. You start to make a fuss about being ignored. That your child may die and you must be helped immediately. You can be understood, you are the parent of a sick child. But in the hospital, your child is not the only one, and other children feel bad too. Their parents are also worried. Doctors cannot abandon all children and run to yours. Your child wasn't rushed to not because he had the wrong color of skin, eyes or hair. It's just that the hospital has a protocol and follows it. It would be a lot more cynical if they did it just because you're a celebrity.
I can understand the feelings of Meghan and Harry. I can understand their fears. But this does not mean that the family and the whole country should have thrown all their strength into their defense. Just because the rest of the royal family or the rest of the celebrities aren't screaming about their feelings doesn't mean they're completely safe. It's not just celebrities who are being threatened. Ordinary people are also threatened and these are not ordinary words. They also need protection. I understand that Harry may feel that his situation is unique. But when a woman runs away from her husband, who beats her and threatens to kill her, she is no less scared. And her chances of being killed are many times greater.
Again, I don't think Harry and Meghan's fears and worries are made up. But it seems to me that it is they who do not consider the fears and experiences of other people to be something important.

I understand that you haven't even watched the Netflix show, but this is such a bizarre analysis of the situation and such a weird and inaccurate analogy. Meghan and Harry were not suggesting that other people be denied life-saving health care or safety so that they could receive it. They have not said that the country and family should sacrifice everything for them. Not even close. Harry and Meghan have not accused his father or the other people who made the security decisions of being racist.

And Harry has not just said that racism of certain tabloids or others is different and that the intensity and degree of danger is different. He made it clear in the Netflix series that, even if the situation with him and Meghan was the same as with other members of the royal family, that his family is wrong for this whole deal with the devil and doesn't think anyone in his family should have to deal with it.

Of course Harry knows that he and Meghan are not the only ones to have dealt with safety issues, tabloids, and the paparazzi. His mother was subjected to it and she died fleeing the paparazzi.

 

[airgelaal]

She was talking about her and Kate, not about her and other random celebrities.

Probably Kate should have cut her veins and talked about it publicly. Kate was only 21 when she met William and lived under constant pressure from the press for 10 years before the wedding and after the wedding no one left her alone. But of course it wasn't that hard for her because she's white. Yes, it was her choice to endure everything and move on, and not cry on Oprah's shoulder. But this does not mean that what she experienced was just rudeness. They didn't step on her foot and didn't apologize.

I understand that you haven't even watched the Netflix show,

I saw the documentary. It's a very well made film. Indeed, very good. Harry and Meghan prepared very well, and Netflix did their job very well. And precisely because I see how it is made, it is difficult for me to believe in complete sincerity. There are a lot of half-truths in the film, but very well told.
The goal of Netflix is to make a good movie and make a lot of money from it. Unfortunately, people don't watch real documentaries that well. There is enough harsh truth in life. Meghan and Harry told their truth, but only the one that shows them well. It is very convenient when you know for sure that the royal family will not do the same show with their truth. Who better than Harry to know that?

 

[skategal]

It doesn't explain what plan they had to live independently using their own (substantial) means. Both came from a background of getting things comped and paid for by others (Harry as a royal, Meghan as a celebrity/influencer), and it seems like they expected that to continue into their new life. And indeed, someone they didn't even know comped them a house, which I can't imagine he'd do for random people dealing with safety and security issues.

It's possible to feel empathy for both Harry and Meghan while still questioning parts of their narrative and actions. And I certainly understand why @airgelaal doesn't have much patience for some it these days.

They didn’t plan to live independently.

They wanted to be part-time royals (compensated as such) and also have their own jobs.

I imagine that was all under negotiation until it was blown out of the water.

 

[antmanb]

T
They wanted to be part-time royals (compensated as such) and also have their own jobs.

I suspect that being part time royals and having their own jobs was never going to be compatible. There would be inherent conflicts of interest being a working royal (even part time) and having commercial ventures or independent jobs.

They really were always going to be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

The monarchy has proved time and again that it’s an outdated institution and is incapable of change because of the people in it. QEII was an enormous shield due to the high regard the majority of people had for her and the length of time she reigned. Charles and/or William are not held in even a fraction of the same regard and I think finally we might rightly start to have a conversation nationally about how we, the people who pay for them, want the monarchy to look or if we even want them at all.

 

[skategal]

I suspect that being part time royals and having their own jobs was never going to be compatible. There would be inherent conflicts of interest being a working royal (even part time) and having commercial ventures or independent jobs.

They really were always going to be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

The monarchy has proved time and again that it’s an outdated institution and is incapable of change because of the people in it. QEII was an enormous shield due to the high regard the majority of people had for her and the length of time she reigned. Charles and/or William are not held in even a fraction of the same regard and I think finally we might rightly start to have a conversation nationally about how we, the people who pay for them, want the monarchy to look or if we even want them at all.

Yes.

Harry said that even though part-time royal was being negotiated for months with them and was an option presented to him that he chose from a list of 5 options, as things progressed it was obvious that it wouldn’t be allowed and the only option was to leave being a working royal.

 

[morqet]

Yes.

Harry said that even though part-time royal was being negotiated for months with them and was an option presented to him that he chose from a list of 5 options, as things progressed it was obvious that it wouldn’t be allowed and the only option was to leave being a working royal.

With the security issue, the judgement on Harry's application to bring a legal challenge to Ravec shows that part of the issue around partly leaving was the idea that they could spend a large chunk of their time in other countries without really defining what that would mean - managing security risk for a family that is sometimes here and sometimes in other jurisdictions is tough and very costly. I think things that H&M have presented as "not being allowed" are more likely to be "not feasible to carry out in the way they wanted them to be carried out"

But mostly I agree with what @antmanb said - this saga is highlighting again that we should be considering the future of the monarchy. It's not fair that Harry and Meghan are in this position of receiving threats because of the family he was born into, I fully agree that as individuals they should be able to live their lives as they please, but I also don't think that there should be any expectation that UK taxpayers should be facilitating that with any more security and protection than normal people get - (60 women were killed in 2015-16 in the UK by men they had previously reported to the police, where was their round the clock security and armed guards?)

Their complaints about the monarchy are legitimate, but the solution is the wrong one. The conversation shouldn't be about changing the institution and the way it operates, it should be about abolishing it.

 

[Lacey]

The documentary shows that they had many plans over the course of several months.

The first was New Zealand. Before they could finalize plans, it was leaked to the media.

The second plan was South Africa.
Again before plans could be finalized, it was leaked to the media.

The third plan was Canada. They asked to discuss this with Charles and he wanted them to put it in writing.

They didn’t want to because of what happened the first two times but agreed to do so when Charles said that he need a written document.

They put specific comments in the written document in case it leaked so they would know where the leak came from.

Again the Canada plan was leaked to the media and they knew it was being leaked by BP.

Harry said when the plans leak to the media, they are effectively dead in the water at the point because all the negotiations become very political.

So they were then left in a place in Canada with no plans and the paparazzi discovered the location and were trying to breach the estate.

This is when they also learned that they would lose their security in 3 weeks and had to leave to another location but were out of plans at that point.

Also Covid was coming and they were afraid the borders would close. So when Tyler Perry reached out to them, the jumped on it.

It wasn’t lack of planning that was their issue.

Their plans were being spoiled by media leaks coming from internal to BP most likely in an attempt to keep them from leaving the Institution.

Harry also says at a meeting he had with the Queen, Charles and William and Palace advisors he was given 5 options from fully in to fully out and he chose option 3 (part-time Royal living outside the UK) but as time went on it was clear BP wouldn’t allow that to happen.

@skategal, WHOLE POST IS CORRECT, great job of reiterating it.

None of us is the Royal Family or the British Press, much less Harry or Meghan. I think we should just let it go and let them be. The two sides may or may not disagree with each other or with us. It's presumptuous of us to judge Harry and Meghan. What happened, happened. And, we certainly aren't going to be able to change anything.

 

[Judy]

I suspect that being part time royals and having their own jobs was never going to be compatible. There would be inherent conflicts of interest being a working royal (even part time) and having commercial ventures or independent jobs.

They really were always going to be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

The monarchy has proved time and again that it’s an outdated institution and is incapable of change because of the people in it. QEII was an enormous shield due to the high regard the majority of people had for her and the length of time she reigned. Charles and/or William are not held in even a fraction of the same regard and I think finally we might rightly start to have a conversation nationally about how we, the people who pay for them, want the monarchy to look or if we even want them at all.

One of the biggest (huge) problems in the U.K. is the tabloids. The photographers make HUGE money selling their photos .. so they are extremely aggressive. The night Diana was in that horrible crash and died some even photographed her in the car. To my knowledge that picture never surfaced but if she hadn’t’t died it definitely would have. Their was a huge, huge backlash against the tabloid media .. huge. As much as Camilla likely suffered though it was nothing compared to Diana. Due to the $ the photographers/tabloids make they will stop at nothing to get their photos. Vultures. Much worse then U.S.paparazzi.

 

[taf2002]

Not exactly the same but the Jill Biden is a full-time professor & a first lady of the US. I always thought part-time BF work & doing your own thing would have been possible. Unfortunately the BF is stuck in the 1800's.

 

[MsZem]

Not exactly the same but the Jill Biden is a full-time professor & a first lady of the US. I always thought part-time BF work & doing your own thing would have been possible. Unfortunately the BF is stuck in the 1800's.

That's very much not the same. Dr. Biden teaches English at a community college; she's not out there trading on her name and fame, something that was frowned upon when Edward tried it, too. Meanwhile, nobody seems to be objecting to the Beatrice/Eugenie model of holding more-or-less normal jobs and making occasional royal appearances.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I thought that Edward and Sophie were seen as trying to sell access and influence in business, not their name and fame. They weren't trying to sell themselves as celebrities.

I don't know what all of those "Official pot scrubbers of the Royal Family" are meant to trade upon, if not name and fame.

 

[skategal]

If H&M are out of the Royal Family, paying their own expenses (not on the payroll), I have no problem with them writing books and doing documentaries for income.

Just means the taxpayers will never have to pay for them ever again.

Win-win in my opinion.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't think the taxpayers should have to fund anything for the British Royal Family that isn't related to the government or official diplomacy. I think should include incumbency, because there are people left behind even if the succession is usually a result of death. I think that if there are specific security issues from credible threats simply because they were born into that family, security should be funded, but I also think that security for women who are endanged by abusers, people who are targeted by fatwas and other religious extremists, and non-royals who are racist targets and are physically endangered should be funded.

 

[Judy]

I don't think the taxpayers should have to fund anything for the British Royal Family that isn't related to the government or official diplomacy. I think should include incumbency, because there are people left behind even if the succession is usually a result of death. I think that if there are specific security issues from credible threats simply because they were born into that family, security should be funded, but I also think that security for women who are endanged by abusers, people who are targeted by fatwas and other religious extremists, and non-royals who are racist targets and are physically endangered should be funded.

Fair but the U.K. people‘s opinion decide that. I’d love to hear their perspective.

 

[morqet]

Fair but the U.K. people‘s opinion decide that. I’d love to hear their perspective.

Well you’ve heard from me and @antmanb

 

[kwanfan1818]

Fair but the U.K. people‘s opinion decide that. I’d love to hear their perspective.

As someone who's paid taxes to Canada for when Royals are doing their non-governmental or state/diplomatic visits and for Crown representatives to do their jobs, I think I and other Canadians and anyone who pay taxes to Canada or the UK have skin in the game.

 

[MacMadame]

It doesn't explain what plan they had to live independently using their own (substantial) means.

That wasn't the question. The question was: why didn't they have a plan/plan better? And the answer is that they were planning for ages and kept having their plans sabotaged by being leaked to the press.

Meanwhile, nobody seems to be objecting to the Beatrice/Eugenie model of holding more-or-less normal jobs and making occasional royal appearances.

Nobody except their father, who wants them to have all the perks of being a senior royal (which they aren't).

 

[MsZem]

Nobody except their father, who wants them to have all the perks of being a senior royal (which they aren't).

I don't think Andrew's opinions are of much importance these days, and a good thing too.

It seems like William and Harry's royal cousins are happy with their lives. I hope for their sake they can find satisfaction with what they have.

 

[airgelaal]

Yes.

Harry said that even though part-time royal was being negotiated for months with them and was an option presented to him that he chose from a list of 5 options, as things progressed it was obvious that it wouldn’t be allowed and the only option was to leave being a working royal.

And, interestingly, he named only 2 options. Probably the other 3 were not suitable for the purposes of the documentary.

That's very much not the same. Dr. Biden teaches English at a community college; she's not out there trading on her name and fame, something that was frowned upon when Edward tried it, too. Meanwhile, nobody seems to be objecting to the Beatrice/Eugenie model of holding more-or-less normal jobs and making occasional royal appearances.

Exactly. Now there is a scandal in Norway because of the princess and her shaman fiancé. Not only the British royal family does not like it when their name is used for private purposes.
Meghan was offered to continue her acting career, but it was her and Harry's decision to take on royal duties.
I dоnt believe that Megan and Harry are such saints, and the royal family is the biggest evil in the world. Perhaps Meghan and Harry wanted too much.

That wasn't the question. The question was: why didn't they have a plan/plan better? And the answer is that they were planning for ages and kept having their plans sabotaged by being leaked to the press.

What was so special that was leaked to the press? They planned to leave for New Zealand incognito and were sure that no one would ever know where they were?

 

[skategal]

And, interestingly, he named only 2 options. Probably the other 3 were not suitable for the purposes of the documentary.


Exactly. Now there is a scandal in Norway because of the princess and her shaman fiancé. Not only the British royal family does not like it when her name is used for their own purposes.
Meghan was offered to continue her acting career, but it was her and Harry's decision to take on royal duties.
I dоnt believe that Megan and Harry are such saints, and the royal family is the biggest evil in the world. Perhaps Meghan and Harry wanted too much.



What was so special that was leaked to the press? They planned to leave for New Zealand incognito and were sure that no one would ever know where they were?

The options seemed to be a scale with 1 = fully in, 5 = fully out and 3 = part-time royal (half-in, half-out).

Would have loved to hear what 2 and 4 were although they probably make less sense than 1,3,5.

 

[once_upon]

I dont think the BRF or Harry & Meghan are evil. I dont pretend to believe that Harry & Meghan haven't made some mistakes along the way. I can't believe the BRF is so innocent, that everything that happens is on Meghan for dragging Harry down this path of whatever the BRF and press think she is.

Royality is changing, at least I hope society is changing enough to force a change. Life expectancy has changed greatly in the last 100 years or so with medical advances. The fear of losing the royality because the heir dies before a new heir has been born should be diminished somewhat. A spare is not as "essential" to the lineage as once was. I sense, but don't know for certain because I'm not British, there is a change in viewpoint of value of the Royals.

BUT.... the Royals are floundering, the spare Prince is floundering, the King and Heir are floundering. The public and the press are floundering. It's uncharted territory for everyone. The biggest VISIBLE change has been the introduction of Meghan.

The BRF structure was going to change - it had become unmanageable - QE and KC had been making plans to downsize for at least a decade. The British people were asking for more accountability for fundings. Transitions are never pleasant or easy.