U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[sk9tingfan]

“Tough love” eh? (I think Camden knows this already.)

ETA that I only see positivity from fellow skaters & fans in the comments section of his Instagram post.

Here’s a comment that sounds like yours in one of the replies to Camden’s tweet that I embedded into my earlier post:
“It may have been a crazy rollercoaster, but get a grip on your emotions and keep your stuff (euphemism) together. Be a bit more like Nathan. #GoodLuck”

Sylvia, you know me too well.

 

[Jammers]

Well there goes the 3rd spot. To bad Jason can't go instead.

 

[Karen-W]

Well there goes the 3rd spot. To bad Jason can't go instead.

Wow. Way to be positive there. What reason do you have to think Vincent and Ilia can't manage, with this field, to finish 3rd and 10th or some combination of 13 points?

 

[haribobo]

FWIW, using SB scores (and CC score for Malinin), this is how the top 12 Worlds skaters rank-

Kagiyama, Zhou, Uno, Cha, Grassl, Vasiljevs
Morisi, Messing, Malinin, Rizzo, Aymoz, Sadovsky

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Wow. Way to be positive there. What reason do you have to think Vincent and Ilia can't manage, with this field, to finish 3rd and 10th or some combination of 13 points?

Jammers? Not negative in posts? Please don't ask the impossible!

 

[Karen-W]

Jammers? Not negative in posts? Please don't ask the impossible!

Well. I mean, St Jason isn't going to be at Worlds for us, so it's an all but certain dire and dreadful outcome, no doubt.

ETA - I really don't hate Jason, but the notion that the US men can't hold onto 3 spots, especially with none of the inconsistent Russian men there to slide, unexpectedly, into the top 10, and keep Vincent and Ilia from managing a combined 13 points or less, and that we NEED Jason there, is just pretty outlandish (these guys better not have me eating my words in another 10 days, lol).

 

[aliona22]

FWIW, using SB scores (and CC score for Malinin), this is how the top 12 Worlds skaters rank-

Kagiyama, Zhou, Uno, Cha, Grassl, Vasiljevs
Morisi, Messing, Malinin, Rizzo, Aymoz, Sadovsky

But what does this look like if you use Vincent’s scores from events besides Skate America this season… say his NHK SP and Olympic team FS?

 

[barbk]

“Tough love” eh? (I think Camden knows this already.)

ETA that I only see positivity from fellow skaters & fans in the comments section.

Wow. Way to be positive there. What reason do you have to think Vincent and Ilia can't manage, with this field, to finish 3rd and 10th or some combination of 13 points?

I suspect Vincent will either do really well or really poorly. He's had a hell of an experience this year and he had a very bad time at Worlds last year. Sometimes folks can harness that for success, other times it drags them down. Hard to know what will happen with him. Also tough to know how the caller will treat underrotations/edge calls. It seems very idiosyncratic caller to caller, but he's got a real risk there.

This is Ilya's first time at Worlds. He could pull a Pluschenko and do really well the first time out, or get lost in the weeds. There are a bunch of guys with really nice lutzes who will be there, so he isn't unique. Does he stand out in that crowd? I don't know. I hope so.

I like Camden's skating, but he's a notorious headcase, so I'm just not expecting him to contribute much of anything useful in the way of placements. Maybe he'll pull it together and I'll be surprised.

In contrast, the chances that Nathan would end up off the podium were pretty low, at least pre-injury. And, if Jason were going, decent chance that he could finish as high as 4th, and unlikely to finish lower than 10th.

 

[centerpt1]

Zhou seems to be in a funk over his horrible luck at the Olympics.

Then we have an unknown talented newbie and someone who works hard but has difficulty putting two good skates together in competition.

I do think we needed Jason.

 

[jlai]

Well. I mean, St Jason isn't going to be at Worlds for us, so it's an all but certain dire and dreadful outcome, no doubt.

ETA - I really don't hate Jason, but the notion that the US men can't hold onto 3 spots, especially with none of the inconsistent Russian men there to slide, unexpectedly, into the top 10, and keep Vincent and Ilia from managing a combined 13 points or less, and that we NEED Jason there, is just pretty outlandish (these guys better not have me eating my words in another 10 days, lol).

Vincent seems to be quite depressed based on the interview. So I can see folks being worried about the spots with two newbie and one veteran in the funk. But I hope folks will cheer hard for him to cheer him up.

 

[Karen-W]

Look, I still stand by my opinion that if the 3 guys going to Worlds can't manage to keep 3 spots between them then we don't deserve or need 3 spots next season.

I also am pretty confident that Vincent and Ilia will be fine and keep 3 spots for us.

 

[VGThuy]

But what does this look like if you use Vincent’s scores from events besides Skate America this season… say his NHK SP and Olympic team FS?

And everyone else’s worst scores of the season too? I just hope for the best and that Vincent leaves Worlds with performances he can be proud of.

Small clip of his quad Lutz:

Vincent Zhou on Instagram: "Working hard 🌪️ #figureskating #iceskating #teamusa #athlete #quadlutz"

8,813 likes, 170 comments - govincentzhou on March 16, 2022: "Working hard 🌪️ #figureskating #iceskating #teamusa #athlete #quadlutz".

www.instagram.com

 

[haribobo]

Using Zhou's score from Nebelhorn, he falls behind Uno. His score from NHK (260) puts him where Malinin is now. Max Aaron is calling to let us know there is no point in predicting things anyway.

 

[Vagabond]

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www.ienergize.com

Here are some of the negative effects of pessimism:

1. It can cause depression and other mental and emotional problems....

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[Trillian]

Look, I still stand by my opinion that if the 3 guys going to Worlds can't manage to keep 3 spots between them then we don't deserve or need 3 spots next season.

I also am pretty confident that Vincent and Ilia will be fine and keep 3 spots for us.

I agree on both points. I’m not 100% confident in Vincent only because I wouldn’t blame anyone for struggling after the Olympic experience he had. But he’s certainly capable of medaling and Ilia is more than capable of top 10. And if they don’t do it, two spots next year isn’t going to kill the U.S. mens program. There’s probably some rebuilding ahead anyway.

Jason could have been a dark horse medal contender if he showed up in the same shape he was in at the Olympics - but I doubt he’s done any intensive training since he finished that event. Consistency goes a long way and he’d probably do fine at Worlds on short notice, but the long vacation in a country with hardly any ice is a pretty strong hint that he decided he needed a break.

 

[sheetz]

Personally I've never understood the big fuss. Earning 3 spots doesn't mean the country is "saved." Neither does losing them mean they are doomed. If US men lose a spot it just means they need to work harder.

 

[Stephanie]

Antonio Monaco (J10) has been added to the roster for Egna Spring Trophy per the USFS website. I'm guessing Beck Strommer (J6) must be injured or similar as he's the only junior man in the top 10 without junior minimums that hasn't been sent out internationally post-nationals.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Jason could have been a dark horse medal contender if he showed up in the same shape he was in at the Olympics - but I doubt he’s done any intensive training since he finished that event.

If he had interest in going to Worlds and USFS was interested in his going to Worlds, he would have been training hard, but since that combination of things doesn't seem to be true, he's been hanging out in Machu Picchu. Which would have been good training only if Worlds were in Colorado Springs.

 

[AYS]

Wow. Way to be positive there. What reason do you have to think Vincent and Ilia can't manage, with this field, to finish 3rd and 10th or some combination of 13 points?

Don’t you know Jammers by now, for whom half full glasses and silver linings will never and should never exist?

 

[Trillian]

If he had interest in going to Worlds and USFS was interested in his going to Worlds, he would have been training hard, but since that combination of things doesn't seem to be true, he's been hanging out in Machu Picchu. Which would have been good training only if Worlds were in Colorado Springs.

Yeah, if USFS truly thought he’d be essential to the team, they would have named him to it. He’d have been back in training if he thought they were counting on him. I think they made the best choice they could with how nationals turned out, but I also don’t blame him for picking Machu Picchu over a “maybe.”

IMO there’s a zero percent chance USFS is surprised by this world team. Nathan was always iffy. And while Jason’s track record as Worlds team member is super reliable, Jason’s track record as Worlds alternate is “I’m going to peace out a little early and go climb some mountains.” (Good mental health decision both times, honestly!) Plus Ilia wasn’t a sure thing until Challenge Cup. USFS had to know there was a good chance they’d be calling Camden, so hopefully he was strongly encouraged to keep training hard.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Maybe USFS asked Nathan to consider Worlds until all the entries were in and feel safe in 3 spots without him there. He's had the injury so it's a ready made excuse for backing out now.

 

[skatingguy]

Maybe USFS asked Nathan to consider Worlds until all the entries were in and feel safe in 3 spots without him there. He's had the injury so it's a ready made excuse for backing out now.

Nathan did a quad-loop in his program in the fall to play with Yuzuru Hanyu's head - he's a gamer - he's a competitor - I think he wanted to win that 4th World Championship and his body wasn't up to it this season.

Plus, the USFS not exactly known for their strategic thinking.

 

[Trillian]

Maybe USFS asked Nathan to consider Worlds until all the entries were in and feel safe in 3 spots without him there. He's had the injury so it's a ready made excuse for backing out now.

I got the feeling Nathan genuinely wanted to go.

I’d guess USFS just wanted to make sure they had two of the top four. After his disappointment at the Olympics, Vincent was always likely to go (barring injury). Nathan seemed iffy after the Olympics, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they asked Jason to hang out until Ilia got his tech minimum, just in case. But after Vincent and Ilia were locked in, I doubt there was much pressure on either Nathan or Jason either way.

 

[Marco]

Vincent has been on a bit of a downward trend from SA to SC to Nationals to Olympic team event. And what happened at the Olympics clearly affected him psychologically. Here's hoping he can rise above all these and prove himself again at Worlds.

Ilia is a promising kid but unfortunately will now have the weight of the world on him by US media and skating fans. Here's hoping he can repeat his Nationals skate and find a place in the top ten. I don't think the international judges are warmed up to his skating just yet to give him big PCS.

I hope Camden doesn't feel much pressure as a last minute substitute. Comparing how he skated at Nationals vs the rest of his senior career, I hope it's more of a situation that "he has found his mojo" rather than "he did everything he could to peak at Nationals".

 

[misskarne]

And so here we are again - an alternate alternate being asked to step up on short notice for the post-Olympic Worlds. "Oh, we shouldn't need him anyway."

Unlike 2018, however, the alternate is far less reliable and there is no Nathan to make sure all the alternate has to do is stand up.

This is possibly the most chaotic Worlds team you could have. Because on the one hand, if all three skate well, the three spots isn't in question and it could quite possibly end up with a Worlds medal for someone. And yet on the other, there is just as much chance that it goes horribly wrong, that the URs stack up, that the pressure is too much, that the nerves are too great.

People mocked Jason's consistency as an argument, but I'll bet USFS is feeling more than a touch nervous that they effectively have three unknown quantities on the team, and no solid performer with the absence of Nathan and Jason.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

And so here we are again - an alternate alternate being asked to step up on short notice for the post-Olympic Worlds. "Oh, we shouldn't need him anyway."

Many people thought Camden would go since Nathan and Jason might not. And what exactly is your solution here?

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Many people thought Camden would go since Nathan and Jason might not. And what exactly is your solution here?

Not for you, but for the poster to whom you directed this question.

Animotion - Obsession

Music video by Animotion performing Obsession. (C) 1985 The Island Def Jam Music Group

www.youtube.com

 

[Karen-W]

I just love how, even without the Russian men at Worlds, the US men are in TROUBLE to retain 3 spots without either Nathan or Jason.

I really doubt the USFS is freaking out about this nearly as much as some people wish to believe. While it would be nice to keep 3 spots, if Vincent, Ilia and Camden can't manage it, well, does the US really need three spots next season?

 

[Trillian]

While it would be nice to keep 3 spots, if Vincent, Ilia and Camden can't manage it, well, does the US really need three spots next season?

Seriously. We don’t know that any of the three Olympians are competing next season, and my impression (maybe I’m wrong) is that Camden might not either since he’s talked about going to school. So besides Ilia, we’ve got some more experienced men who are talented and fun to watch but inconsistent, and lots of promising up-and-coming guys who are not ready to be major senior level contenders yet.

I’m all for getting world experience for as many of the guys as we can, but I don’t think we’re in serious danger of leaving any world medal contenders at home next year. It’ll be fine.

 

[Tahuu]

I just love how, even without the Russian men at Worlds, the US men are in TROUBLE to retain 3 spots without either Nathan or Jason.

I really doubt the USFS is freaking out about this nearly as much as some people wish to believe. While it would be nice to keep 3 spots, if Vincent, Ilia and Camden can't manage it, well, does the US really need three spots next season?

And without Boyang. Who would need those 3 2023 worlds spots with Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Camden out next season?