Unpopular Opinions

I noticed in the Russian commentary they will say a skater is "Olympic medalist in the team event." That's fair. They are Olympic medalists, but I do see a difference between being "an" Olympic medalist and "the" Olympic gold, silver, or bronze medalist (individual event).
 
Cherub721 said:
I noticed in the Russian commentary they will say a skater is "Olympic medalist in the team event." That's fair. They are Olympic medalists, but I do see a difference between being "an" Olympic medalist and "the" Olympic gold, silver, or bronze medalist (individual event).
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I like this. It is more specific, and also not discrediting necessarily. Someone could have a really important performance in the team event that helps clinch things who otherwise might not perform well in the individual event. Or not, it is a team event.
 
Taso said:
I like this. It is more specific, and also not discrediting necessarily. Someone could have a really important performance in the team event that helps clinch things who otherwise might not perform well in the individual event. Or not, it is a team event.
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I think I'm just used to gymnastics where people don't seem to care that much about differentiating. They seem more...secure in knowing who won the team medals and who won the AA/individual events without all this fuss and muss. It's like calling Ivana Hong a world champion doesn't do anything to take away from Shawn Johnson's World AA title or the fact that 5 other women on that team did more to contribute for that team world title in 2007 (though Hong came back in 2009 and won an individual beam bronze).

I think it'll take a generation of skating fans who grew up with the team event being their reality to change their philosophies about this. I also think the ISU does the team event a disservice with the stupid format it has now and the fact that they don't have team events at Worlds or any other competition unlike gymnastics where the team event exists in so many other comps and is kind of the premier event.
 
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Do the 2 middle guys in the bobsled offer much in the way of earning a medal? It"s the pusher and driver who do most of the work? Should they not get the same medal recognition?
 
once_upon said:
Do the 2 middle guys in the bobsled offer much in the way of earning a medal? It"s the pusher and driver who do most of the work? Should they not get the same medal recognition?
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I would think they do offer much, probably to do with braking/direction - don't know much about bobsled. There has to be some reason for them to be there.

And yes, they deserve the same medal recognition as members of a team.
 
Japanfan said:
I would think they do offer much, probably to do with braking/direction - don't know much about bobsled. There has to be some reason for them to be there.

And yes, they deserve the same medal direction as members of a team.
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I agree but my point was, they are lesser known. Probably very stragically discussed regarding weight distribution, etc.
 
In swimming- if you swam a leg in a relay heat, you get a medal, even if you don't participate in the final medal match.

In curling, the alternates get medals - I don't even think they have to throw a single rock throughout the entire tournament, but they get medals, and there's not as much outcry about that as there is about a less strong figure skater getting a team medal for actually participating. I think it's the same with soccer too - as long as their name is on the official team list, they get a medal whether they actually set foot on the field or not.

How is a skater performing poorly in the team event less deserving of a medal than a player who did not even compete at the Olympics?
 
screech said:
In curling, the alternates get medals - I don't even think they have to throw a single rock throughout the entire tournament, but they get medals, and there's not as much outcry about that as there is about a less strong figure skater getting a team medal for actually participating. I think it's the same with soccer too - as long as their name is on the official team list, they get a medal whether they actually set foot on the field or not.
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I believe they have to play one full end in order to receive a medal. But yes, your point stands.

In hockey, the third goaltender receives a medal and that person rarely even puts on a uniform and sits on the bench, let alone plays a game.
 
What I'm trying to figure out is who got a medal in 2014 or 2018 via the team event that everyone hates so much? :lol:

Back in the day when gymnastics had a different setup to the team event, a gymnast could've been included in certain events and their score wouldn't factor (much) into the total. In 1996, it was the 6 up, 5 scores count format and the Romanians had a bronze-medal win. Ionela Loaies finished 6th of the 6 Romanians in 3 apparatus and 5th of the 6 in the other one, so only one of her scores counted and it was nothing amazing. But guess what? That score still contributed to the medal win. Oksana Lyapina on the Russian silver medal winning team was similar: was used in three events, score was only used in 1 since she was at the bottom of her team in the other two.

I know it's unpopular opinions and everyone is going to share some wild stuff, but not giving a medal to part of a team because they don't score well enough? They still get team points that bring them to that medal, no matter how minimal they may be!
 
At work we had a Fill the Fridge contest for signing customers up for our loyalty program. Because I am currently only working 2 very short shifts a week, and when I am there I am tasking, not on cash, I didn’t sign any new customers up to help with the contest. We won, and were able to load up on snacks for the staff room. No one said, hey quartz, no snacks for you! We are ALL included.
:p
 
once_upon said:
Do the 2 middle guys in the bobsled offer much in the way of earning a medal? It"s the pusher and driver who do most of the work? Should they not get the same medal recognition?
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Actually, they do. They push the sled from the side at the start. The push is crucial to bobsled, because that's where all the power/speed comes from (besides gravity).
 
gkelly said:
How would you define "worse than average juniors"? Program components in the 4s?
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Well, pairs who do double twist, double side by side or double throws. Those are definitely junior skills rather than skills of elite skaters/Olympic medals contenders.
 
Japanfan said:
And the unskilled still deserves a medal according to the rules.

Think of another example, the relay in speed skating or short track. One member of the team goes down early and ends up way behind the pack, but the other three push though (not sure that is possible in this event) and end up winning. Person who went down still gets a medal.

People gain benefits from being in team, but also have disadvantages.

Imagine that one skater in a team of four at the TE is particularly talented, possibly the most talented skater in the film. The other three team members are sub-par, so the team of no chance of winning a medal.

Would you want to give the one talented skater a medal anyway?

From what I can see, you are arguing against the team event.

You can't pick and choose who gets a medal on a team - if you did, I don't think there would be much interest in the team event.
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No, I am not arguing against team event, but I am arguing for a competition where someone under average won’t get an olympic medal. This could be ensured by changing the marking of the team event, so that very bad performance will affect the whole team outcome much more and it won’t lead to the team medalling. Maybe adding the actual points that were gained in all four events? Then if a pair team scores let’s say 120 points (total of SP and FS) while other teams score above 180, it would have a bigger impact on the whole team’s scoring.
 
One thing I agree with hanca on is that I hate the current factored placement scoring system of the Team Event.
 
Japanfan said:
And the unskilled still deserves a medal according to the rules.
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Thanks for that! I am just questioning whether the rules are right or whether they should be changed. Should the team event be marked the way it is, or should it perhaps be done differently? Even at relays they count the total time, rather than the placement individual competitors. So maybe base it on the total points skaters are awarded for their skating, rather than basing it on the placements?
 
Here's a question for all that can gauge how high you prioritize the TE:

Is it worse if a skater/team performs extraordinarily well in the TE and somehow captures a medal of a color that was unexpected for his/her/their team but then bombs the individual OR if that skater/team was an individual medal threat and is used in the TE because they are expected to rank high in their portion of the TE and the team needs those points to compete for a medal, and everyone else performs as expected but that skater bombs their portion(s) completely and costs the team an expected medal of any color (or a medal at all) but then performs extraordinarily in the individual and wins a medal (maybe even gold) for themselves (maybe pushing a teammate out of a medal)?
 
I just want to add I wish the team event had been around a lot longer. I can just imagine so many awesome head to heads of the USSR, USA, and the GDR with Frau Muller's ice dance teams (Jutta, not our lovely poster whose dance teams I'm sure I'd love).
 
hanca said:
No, I am not arguing against team event, but I am arguing for a competition where someone under average won’t get an olympic medal. This could be ensured by changing the marking of the team event, so that very bad performance will affect the whole team outcome much more and it won’t lead to the team medalling. Maybe adding the actual points that were gained in all four events? Then if a pair team scores let’s say 120 points (total of SP and FS) while other teams score above 180, it would have a bigger impact on the whole team’s scoring.
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Those who won a team medal should be called Olympic Team Medalists. It differentiates them from the individual competitons.
 
I think because the artistic element of the sport is so important, it feels weirder and like it creates more of a feeling of anti-climax to have major competitors performing their programs twice, once in the team and again as individuals. That's why I still struggle at times with the team event. I always think I would like it better if it was after the individual ones but I'm sure they are worried people will bail on it.
 
^^ Maybe skaters should have to perform different programs for the team competition and the individual competition. It's like how skaters used to have to skate 2 different LPs at the GPF a decade or so ago. Sure, it's more taxing for the skater, but hey, they're elite athletes and should be able to handle that demand.
 
orbitz said:
^^ Maybe skaters should have to perform different programs for the team competition and the individual competition. It's like how skaters used to have to skate 2 different LPs at the GPF a decade or so ago. Sure, it's more taxing for the skater, but hey, they're elite athletes and should be able to handle that demand.
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The 2 LP GPF is actually one year shy of ending two decades ago! And I'm pretty sure there were several instances between 2000-2003 where skaters competed two programs in one day at that competition, but I may be wrong.
 
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