U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Taso]

There are lots of reasons they might have skated for Uzbekistan: the ability to compete, especially after the break-up of the Soviet Union, when they weren't limited to the top 1/2/3 in Russia, for example. That doesn't mean they have any bad feelings at all about Russia or the Russian Fed. I'm guessing at least some of the skaters who were granted passports from Georgia or Azerbaijan or other EU countries don't have hard feelings against their former Feds, and certainly not their former countries.

For sure. And to be clear, while Malinina was born in Novosibirsk her family moved from Novosibirsk to Uzbekistan as a teenager. She actually was living in Tashkent there earlier in her competitive career. Tashkent had at least two rinks, possibly more - one closed in 1991 and the other in March of 1996. She moved to Pervouralsk after that - not sure if she already had a coaching relationship in Russia with Ksenofontov prior. I presume Skorniakov competed for Uzbekistan for the reasons you listed.

I didn't insinuate that Malinina & Skorniakov had issues with the Russian Fed. It is known fact that their coach DID

 

[Vagabond]

There are lots of reasons they might have skated for Uzbekistan: the ability to compete, especially after the break-up of the Soviet Union, when they weren't limited to the top 1/2/3 in Russia, for example.

I don't know the full story, but Skorniakov and Malinina's were coached by Igor Ksenofontov until he died in a railroad accident in 1999. Ksenofontov was himself Russian but did train some skaters who were themselves from Uzbekistan, such as Anastasia Gimazetdinova and the Pairs skater Evgeni Sviridov. I suspect that when the U.S.S.R. broke up, there was some sort of deal that resulted in Ksenofontov's Russian skaters representing Uzbekistan, perhaps in exchange for funding from that country's Winter Sports Association rather than the FSFR.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I didn't insinuate that Malinina & Skorniakov had issues with the Russian Fed. It is known fact that their coach DID

I wasn't responding to a post of yours. ETA: But I really appreciate the specifics you posted.

 

[Taso]

I don't know the full story, but Skorniakov and Malinina's were coached by Igor Ksenofontov until he died in a railroad accident in 1999. Ksenofontov was himself Russian but did train some skaters who were themselves from Uzbekistan, such as Anastasia Gimazetdinova and the Pairs skater Evgeni Sviridov. I suspect that when the U.S.S.R. broke up, there was some sort of deal that resulted in Ksenofontov's Russian skaters representing Uzbekistan, perhaps in exchange for funding from that country's Winter Sports Association rather than the FSFR.

He also worked with Shen & Zhao and the Chinese team after the USSR breakup, and with the Israeli team with Misha Shmerkin and I think others as well. He was known for being really bitter towards the Soviet fed for not building up the options for training in Sverdlovsk and Pervouralsk and constantly siphoning skaters out to Moscow and Leningrad.

Here is a moment when I am missing Tinami to give the rest of the info we'll never know...

 

[Taso]

I wasn't responding to a post of yours.

Gotcha! Whoops, thank you for clarifying!

 

[VGThuy]

The USFS really should have Tatiana and Roman start holding developmental seminars for all disciplines that require jumps. Although Ilia is also prone to jump calls, his jumps at Nationals were really on point.

 

[Taso]

The USFS really should have Tatiana and Roman start holding developmental seminars for all disciplines that require jumps. Although Ilia is also prone to jump calls, his jumps at Nationals were really on point.

Spins too!

 

[VGThuy]

The Americans usually have good spinners, but I agree, we could always use improvement where we can get it. We need some real jump technicians and Euro-style speed stat!

 

[AxelAnnie]

The Olympics are not a lifetime achievement award. Or at least, they shouldn't be. If Ilia Malinin comes in third at Nationals, I truly hope they send him. We have two medal contenders already in Nathan and Vincent, and if Ilia comes in third, it is my opinion we should invest in him. He is our (very near) future, as all of Nathan, Vincent, and Jason are possibly done after this season.

In reality they kind of are.

What the heck do his political views (or purported political views) have to do with skating team selections? The USFS powers-that-be are far from a hyper-liberal crowd anyway.

Oh, you must have missed it. There is a footnote at the bottom of page 12 in the COP rules that compels judges to include political views in the scores. Who needs BOW when you can rely on political views to bring about the scores you want.

 

[barbk]

I've been thinking this a lot. At some point ages ago someone mentioned Brown not being with an influential USFSA club and coach - which is true, but the Cricket Club and Orser are a HIGHLY influential group when it comes to international influence.

Ilia is Malinina and Skorniakov's first major student. They have no political power, not having represented the US before. They represented Uzbekistan, which also has no political power. And prior to his death they trained with Igor Ksenofontov, who also had no political power, constantly having his top students moved to Moscow or Leningrad (half of all those Zhuk pairs in the 70s and 80s were originally his pairings. Heck he was part of Marina Klimova's coaching team in juniors).

With no political backing at all, with this complicated a selection criteria, Malinin had no shot. I am glad Raf is set up to take him on next year, I actually trust his coaching. Jason's long-time coach (Kori Ade) was a powerful political player?

Meh. Brown's original coach (Kori Ade) had zilch in the way of political power when Brown was named to the 2014 Olympic team over Max Aaron (who had won senior nationals the year before) and Josh Farris. Both Aaron and Farris trained in Colorado Springs, which was (and is) a very politically connected area for skating.

 

[Taso]

Meh. Brown's original coach (Kori Ade) had zilch in the way of political power when Brown was named to the 2014 Olympic team over Max Aaron (who had won senior nationals the year before) and Josh Farris. Both Aaron and Farris trained in Colorado Springs, which was (and is) a very politically connected area for skating.

I appreciate your thoughts here, good points.

Just curious I never said "Jason's long-time coach (Kori Ade) was a powerful political player?" in my original post? How did it end up there in your quote of my post? I think it is pretty clear she is not

 

[VGThuy]

Spins too!

Let's all @USFS on social media and campaign to make it happen.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The USFS really should have Tatiana and Roman start holding developmental seminars for all disciplines that require jumps. Although Ilia is also prone to jump calls, his jumps at Nationals were really on point.

They should have had Malinina doing this without having to prove this via her brilliant skater of a son. Especially given all of the edge calls US skaters have amassed (or should have), even through the period in which she was competing herself.

 

[Stephanie]

Meh. Brown's original coach (Kori Ade) had zilch in the way of political power when Brown was named to the 2014 Olympic team over Max Aaron (who had won senior nationals the year before) and Josh Farris. Both Aaron and Farris trained in Colorado Springs, which was (and is) a very politically connected area for skating.

I think back in 2014 USFS was still new/nervous about the whole body of work component. Ashley over Mirai got a lot of negative press coverage even though now most of us can agree it was obvious that Ashley should have gotten the spot due to far superior results and performances pre-Olympics. I can see them not wanting to have two controversial decisions back then. After all, Denney/Coughlin lost to Zhang/Bartholomay by 0.29 (just looked this up) and, despite having much better international results and Delilah as their coach, didn't get sent.

 

[AYS]

The USFS really should have Tatiana and Roman start holding developmental seminars for all disciplines that require jumps. Although Ilia is also prone to jump calls, his jumps at Nationals were really on point.

Not to mention Jill Heiner’s jumps, which have great form and pop. She’s with them too.

 

[Taso]

Not to mention Jill Heiner’s jumps, which have great form and pop. She’s with them too.

Gorgeous lutz!

 

[feraina]

From a commercial perspective Jason brown brings in some extra publicity/sponsorship/viewership that he alone is able to pull in. What Ilia can pull in is probably a subset of people who are already there because of Nathan and Vincent. Given that USFSA is funded by the public and not the government, I think this probably matters for their bottom line. How much, who knows. It might not be a popularity contest but popularity matters. I suspect Jason has as much commercial pull as Nathan. More Olympic viewership means more kids lacing up skates and signing up for skating lessons and competitions in the future. More viewership means more and bigger commercial sponsors for USFSA competitions. I think this is probably a deciding factor for why Jason got the Olympics and Ilia got Worlds. Nobody wants to talk about money, but the reality is that having a three time world champion and a favorite for OGM still haven’t prevented USFSA and figure skating in general from going into a popularity and commercial decline. That means fewer youngsters taking up skating and less money to support them, and less and less prominent TV slots for skating competitions - it’s a vicious cycle. It’s a matter of self preservation. Of course nothing can rescue the popularity of American figure skating as much as a ladies champion or someone who can at least regularly challenge for medals. But until then, they need to carefully hoard all their popularity/$$$ resources to keep things going to eventually develop that ladies champion contender.

 

[feraina]

Here’s a thought experiment: what if after this year, both Nathan and Vincent retire to go to college full time (both have hinted at this), and Jason retires too after the disappointment of missing out on the Olympics again? How many people would be interested in the national championship next year or American men at worlds? Most of us die hard FS fans will still be watching of course, but the general public? on the other hand if Jason stays in then next year’s headline would be Jason the seasoned artist versus Ilya the youngster quad king. That could still draw a lot of eyeballs. And Jason might stay in until Ilya is ready to be a threat for a worlds medal.

 

[olympic]

Not to mention Jill Heiner’s jumps, which have great form and pop. She’s with them too.

Wow. I watched her skate in the LP. I wasn't crazy about the packaging, but I was really noting the big lift she got on her jumps.

Yes. The USFSA needs to employ Ilia's parental units

 

[Vagabond]

Here’s a thought experiment: what if after this year, both Nathan and Vincent retire to go to college full time (both have hinted at this), and Jason retires too after the disappointment of missing out on the Olympics again?

Are you expecting Jason Brown to test positive for you-know-what? At the moment, he's still on the roster.

 

[olympic]

He was very critical of US Figure Skating.

Rafael Arutyunyan: “Not inclusion of Ilia Malinin into the Olympic national team shows flagrantly unprofessional approach”

Rafael Arutyunyan criticized the decision not to include Ilia Malinin into the US national team for the Beijing Olympics.

fs-gossips.com

I am agonizing over this whole Jason v. Ilia thing, which is ironically why I never had a preference of the choice made by USFSA, but yet still am feeling emotional.

I think sending Ilia to Worlds is still a big deal, but I'm beginning to have an argument in my head ...

 

[AxelAnnie]

Here is a moment when I am missing Tinami to give the rest of the info we'll never know...

You are kidding, right? I am all signed up with my daily seminars with Tinami when I reach those pearly gates.............oh wait...Jews don't have those gates.......we will need to meet at a deli

 

[kwanfan1818]

I tend to think that if young kids, especially young boys, tuned into the Olympics and watched Malinin land a bunch of quads, they might be driven to lace up some skates and fill the rinks, too.

I would have been the kid who watched Brown and wanted to be like Brown, just as I wanted to be John Misha Petkovich -- I was clearly not at all Peggy Fleming-like -- but I think a lot of kids would be pumped seeing the jumps.

 

[sheetz]

I suspect Jason has as much commercial pull as Nathan.

Not really. I know Jason has a deal with Ralph Lauren but Nathan is sponsored by Nike, Toyota, Panasonic, Visa, and Comcast, among others. And Nathan's Sun Valley show this past summer sold out within 48 hours. Jason's never sold out.

 

[barbk]

I appreciate your thoughts here, good points.

Just curious I never said "Jason's long-time coach (Kori Ade) was a powerful political player?" in my original post? How did it end up there in your quote of my post? I think it is pretty clear she is not

You didn't! However, Jason and Ilia were in similar positions back in 2014 when Jason was named to the Olympic team without any kind of coach pull. I believe (and hope) that coach pull is of relatively small importance.

 

[Frau Muller]

Not really. I know Jason has a deal with Ralph Lauren but Nathan is sponsored by Nike, Toyota, Panasonic, Visa, and Comcast, among others. And Nathan's Sun Valley show this summer sold out within 48 hours. Jason's never sold out.

And that’s terrific for Nathan! The general public adores champions.

In my ideal little fantasy world, if money were no object, I’d resurrect the John Curry-style skating shows that used to tour proscenium opera houses in the early ‘80s. Jason would be the headliner-artistic director, with a cast of about 15 very musical skaters - not necessarily all champions - such as Satoko, Yevgenia, Roman Sadovsky, etc. The Curry show included a shorter zippy guy like Santee…that’ll be Keegan!

Of course, with the crud closing down theatres and shows once again, who knows if any sort of ice show (or any live show) will be happening in the foreseeable future?

 

[olympic]

Re Vincent - Reflecting on the LP, One thing that I thought may have gotten into his head was how well he performed in the SP and how close he was to Nathan. He went for 2 4Z when he was wobbly, and he has ruminated a lot about how he was not at Nationals to be 2nd. I know he’s had massive crack ups before but to me it seemed like his LP was a Hail Mary to be #1 more than anything else

 

[meer]

From a commercial perspective Jason brown brings in some extra publicity/sponsorship/viewership that he alone is able to pull in. What Ilia can pull in is probably a subset of people who are already there because of Nathan and Vincent. Given that USFSA is funded by the public and not the government, I think this probably matters for their bottom line. How much, who knows. It might not be a popularity contest but popularity matters. I suspect Jason has as much commercial pull as Nathan. More Olympic viewership means more kids lacing up skates and signing up for skating lessons and competitions in the future. More viewership means more and bigger commercial sponsors for USFSA competitions. I think this is probably a deciding factor for why Jason got the Olympics and Ilia got Worlds. Nobody wants to talk about money, but the reality is that having a three time world champion and a favorite for OGM still haven’t prevented USFSA and figure skating in general from going into a popularity and commercial decline. That means fewer youngsters taking up skating and less money to support them, and less and less prominent TV slots for skating competitions - it’s a vicious cycle. It’s a matter of self preservation. Of course nothing can rescue the popularity of American figure skating as much as a ladies champion or someone who can at least regularly challenge for medals. But until then, they need to carefully hoard all their popularity/$$$ resources to keep things going to eventually develop that ladies champion contender.

I mean, no offense but there is zero proof that Jason brings in some special publicity/sponsorship or viewership at all. Compared to Nathan, he has very little sponsors. Jason Brown has been skating for longer than Nathan has and has not helped the popularity of figure skating in the US. Nathan's influence extends outside of the US where figure skating is actually appreciated though. Check the number of Russian, Korean or even Japanese skaters who count him as an idol. Our little quadg0d himself is a pretty big Nathan fanboy too.

Though I'm not sure why Jason is suddenly going to lead to a resurgence of figure skating popularity with the same triples he's been doing for a decade, in a post-Nathan era where people expected the US champ to land 4-5 quads regularly. If anything Jason's getting tons of crap from causal 4 year fans who think Ilia should have went to the Olympics over him and USFS should support the future and not sentimental favorites.

 

[AxelAnnie]

And that’s terrific for Nathan! The general public adores champions.

In my ideal little fantasy world, if money were no object, I’d resurrect the John Curry-style skating shows that used to tour proscenium opera houses in the early ‘80s. Jason would be the headliner-artistic director, with a cast of about 15 very musical skaters - not necessarily all champions - such as Satoko, Yevgenia, Roman Sadovsky, etc. The Curry show included a shorter zippy guy like Santee…that’ll be Keegan!

Of course, with the crud closing down theatres and shows once again, who knows if any sort of ice show (or any live show) will be happening in the foreseeable future?

Let all of us band together, pool our resources and go for it!

 

[AxelAnnie]

I tend to think that if young kids, especially young boys, tuned into the Olympics and watched Malinin land a bunch of quads, they might be driven to lace up some skates and fill the rinks, too.

I would have been the kid who watched Brown and wanted to be like Brown, just as I wanted to be John Misha Petkovich -- I was clearly not at all Peggy Fleming-like -- but I think a lot of kids would be pumped seeing the jumps.

Could be. You should have seen my grandsons practicing their Loops and Axels during Worlds a few years ago. Even one of their friends joined in And my granddaughter who was maybe 4, and I watches Tara's LP at Nagano....and could yell Loop/Loop as she was going into the jump . I even had one grandson for whom I was babysitting during 911 (parents in Mexico --- good time) and he loved to watch Irina...over and over and over.