Figure skating in the United States is on thin ice

[Brenda_Bottems]

I steadfastly believe reinstating compulsory figures is key to reigniting figure skating's popularity in America.

-BB

 

[Lemonade20]

I steadfastly believe reinstating compulsory figures is key to reigniting figure skating's popularity in America.

-BB

You're on to something!

 

[mjb52]

I know everyone will hate me for it but I actually think 6.0 had an incredible brand value. I don't see figure skating having the same cachet since it lost that "perfect" X benchmark. I've come around to the new scoring system and I think it's overall better for the sport, despite some things that still need tweaking, but I really do think at least in the US, skating lost something intangible when it changed.

This is a good example of a product making use of social media culture to promo itself: JIFvsGIF - I think figure skating could lean in a little to having a sense of humor and playing up to how it's been portrayed in pop culture. I personally wouldn't like it at all lol but I think it would nonetheless be good for bringing it a wider profile. No need to please me, I'm just going to be rooting for the Russians anyway.

 

[Japanfan]

I know everyone will hate me for it but I actually think 6.0 had an incredible brand value. I don't see either figure skating or gymnastics having the same cachet since they lost that "perfect" X benchmark. I've come around to the new scoring system and I think it's overall better for the sport, despite some things that still need tweaking, but I really do think at least in the US, skating lost something intangible when it changed.

To the contrary, it is possible to argue that points are easier to understand for the casual viewer than 6.0.

 

[mjb52]

For me, it's not really about whether it's easy to understand or not (although I am not sure I agree that the new system is easier to understand). It's more about the magic quality the 6.0 had as a benchmark.

 

[AxelAnnie]

To the contrary, it is possible to argue that points are easier to understand for the casual viewer than 6.0.

They were supposed to be but they are not IMO. And as long as you get credit for a fall it will remain so. How can we hope to get more fans when it is so dang hard to understand?

 

[Aussie Willy]

For me, it's not really about whether it's easy to understand or not (although I am not sure I agree that the new system is easier to understand). It's more about the magic quality the 6.0 had as a benchmark.

"Magic quality" might be nice but it really doesn't sum up what goes into a program.

 

[Karen-W]

To the contrary, it is possible to argue that points are easier to understand for the casual viewer than 6.0.

I have to agree with @mjb52 on this one. There was something deeply ingrained in the psyche of viewers in the US with the perfect 6.0 that has been lost with the new judging system. 45+ years of television coverage and iconic moments like Torvill & Dean's straight line of 6.0s are hard to replicate with a cumulative points system that viewers don't really have anything to compare scores against. It's sort of like hitting .300 in MLB or having a 20-win season as a pitcher - Americans instinctively know those benchmarks signify greatness from a player in that season.

It's taken me a long time to come to recognize exceptionally good scores in the SP and FS and really recognize that a man scoring over 100 in the SP is rare and unique, or that RD scores in the high 70s are probably only going to get you in the lower top 10 at Worlds in ice dance. That's the kind of thing that takes a long time to get imprinted on the average fan and it's a much different mindset than the 6.0 perfect mark.

 

[mjb52]

"Magic quality" might be nice but it really doesn't sum up what goes into a program.

Of course not, but we're talking about marketing here.

 

[Frau Muller]

.... It's more about the magic quality the 6.0 had as a benchmark.

Easier for Chevy to stick it on a paddle! Remember those paddles? Hubby & I still have ours from 2003 Worlds and take them out to wave when watching skating on TV, when someone has a great skate!

 

[sap5]

I have to agree with @mjb52 on this one. There was something deeply ingrained in the psyche of viewers in the US with the perfect 6.0 that has been lost with the new judging system. 45+ years of television coverage and iconic moments like Torvill & Dean's straight line of 6.0s are hard to replicate with a cumulative points system that viewers don't really have anything to compare scores against. It's sort of like hitting .300 in MLB or having a 20-win season as a pitcher - Americans instinctively know those benchmarks signify greatness from a player in that season.

It's taken me a long time to come to recognize exceptionally good scores in the SP and FS and really recognize that a man scoring over 100 in the SP is rare and unique, or that RD scores in the high 70s are probably only going to get you in the lower top 10 at Worlds in ice dance. That's the kind of thing that takes a long time to get imprinted on the average fan and it's a much different mindset than the 6.0 perfect mark.

So many Americans are either too young to remember Torvill & Dean or were in fact born after IJS was put into place that I have a hard time believing 6.0 is "deeply ingrained in the psyche of viewers in the US."

 

[Lemonade20]

So many Americans are either too young to remember Torvill & Dean or were in fact born after IJS was put into place that I have a hard time believing 6.0 is "deeply ingrained in the psyche of viewers in the US."

I do understand the idea behind the perfect scores. The current scoring system keeps changing so people have to rely on what they're told. "Set a new personal best, new record, etc". It's not quite the same. The thrill of seeing 6.0s will never compare.

 

[Frau Muller]

... The thrill of seeing 6.0s will never compare.

Or 10.0s by Nadia or Mary Lou in gymnastics...probably more ingrained in older US TV viewers than even T&D’s 6.0s.

 

[Lemonade20]

Or 10.0s by Nadia or Mary Lou in gymnastics...probably more ingrained in older US TV viewers than even T&D’s 6.0s.

Exactly, that's what is missing from figure skating. That and spine tingling skates that you just know!

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

And let's be honest. I don't see a figure skating new record score as being worth all that much. The changes to the scoring system had more to do with it than anything. It makes it a lot less exciting when you feel like they will just tweak things again and again to promote new bests.

 

[Lemonade20]

And let's be honest. I don't see a figure skating new record score as being worth all that much. The changes to the scoring system had more to do with it than anything. It makes it a lot less exciting when you feel like they will just tweak things again and again to promote new bests.

I agree with that, no matter how many changes or tweaks, it'll never be like it was under the 6.0 system. People immediately understands that system. I think the current system favors those with technical skills more than those who are story tellers on ice. It just doesn't work.

 

[Colonel Green]

People immediately understands that system.

They don’t, though. The 6.0 system (which had several iterations through the years) was complicated and often bafflingly counterintuitive.

Remember when Hughes beating Kwan hinged not on how either of them skated but on how Slutskaya skated? Or that people got 6.0s regularly for programs that visibly were not perfect?

Skaters who could jump always had the edge in the 6.0 system too.

 

[olympic]

I tried to read thru all the posts and wanted to comment on issues (some may have not been mentioned):

1. Homophobia - As it related to the general public and not necessarily FS fans, homophobia played some role historically in our sport. Hence, the historical focus on US ladies and less on the other disciplines. We love our sport for its artistry but 'artistic' with regard to male figure skaters historically was kind of code word for 'gay' to the general public. But, since we had 'ice queens' driving the sport since the 1950s, the sport was an attention-grabber. I think it worked out that the US has a regular supply chain of girls in pretty sequins and sweet faces for decades that medalled under 6.0. US ladies were not Amazon warriors, but polite, proper ladies on the ice. Those Amazonians were Dijkstra, Seyfert, Maskova, Schuba (I mean figures here), Biellmann, and Zayak was kind of tolerated, but nothing more.

I believe IJS is not the cause of overall decline but it is a 'nail in the coffin', so to speak. It has been discussed in other threads but the USFS did not embrace IJS in the way that other nations like Japan did last decade, which buried our ladies, who as noted historically drove interest in the sport among the general public.

2. American Exceptionalism - Americans are winners. When you don't win, you are off the radar. Therefore, the fact that the focus has been on ladies for so long and ladies don't win anymore, attention from the general public had died off.

3. East v. West - The 6.0 system was used at a time when it was us the good guys in white hats v. the evil commies. The sport really was dominated by fewer nations. How easy it was to tune in if you were a very casual observer and understand that skater X from the US beat those nasty Soviets (or East Germans) who were so dour and unfriendly. There was a little less distraction in the form of world beaters from other nations. I think it created ready-for-TV moments every 4 years. I mean, what would drive an American who does not know much about the sport to get excited over Blumberg / Seibert getting shafted for Klimova / Ponomarenko in Sarajevo? cheating commies.

Now - several countries (that the US is at worst ambivalent about) have winners and the sport lost that hugely influential political driver. It doesn't fit the US idea of clear-cut good v. bad which made for great viewing.

Things are never static and it may change. I hope so. I have opened my eyes to skaters from other countries. I know that sounds silly but it is surprising how much we as Americans expect winners and get so easily disappointed, then move on

 

[giselle23]

I know everyone will hate me for it but I actually think 6.0 had an incredible brand value. I don't see figure skating having the same cachet since it lost that "perfect" X benchmark. I've come around to the new scoring system and I think it's overall better for the sport, despite some things that still need tweaking, but I really do think at least in the US, skating lost something intangible when it changed.

This is a good example of a product making use of social media culture to promo itself: JIFvsGIF - I think figure skating could lean in a little to having a sense of humor and playing up to how it's been portrayed in pop culture. I personally wouldn't like it at all lol but I think it would nonetheless be good for bringing it a wider profile. No need to please me, I'm just going to be rooting for the Russians anyway.

I think there should be pro events judged on 6.0 or 10.0, like they used to be. Also, the Peggy Fleming Cup, which is supposed to reward artistry should be judged on 6.0.

 

[giselle23]

They don’t, though. The 6.0 system (which had several iterations through the years) was complicated and often bafflingly counterintuitive.

Remember when Hughes beating Kwan hinged not on how either of them skated but on how Slutskaya skated? Or that people got 6.0s regularly for programs that visibly were not perfect?

Skaters who could jump always had the edge in the 6.0 system too.

I agree that 6.0 was confusing in how the winners were determined. But in the moment, it was not. The scores were given and the skaters were ranked. People could easily assess that a judge's score seemed too low or too high. It also showed immediately whether there seemed to be national bias. And although jumping did determine the first mark, the second mark was equal to the first. Now, TES, which is uncapped, can and often does outweigh PCS.

 

[tony]

I agree that 6.0 was confusing in how the winners were determined. But in the moment, it was not. The scores were given and the skaters were ranked. People could easily assess that a judge's score seemed too low or too high. It also showed immediately whether there seemed to be national bias. And although jumping did determine the first mark, the second mark was equal to the first. Now, TES, which is uncapped, can and often does outweigh PCS.

Going to argue that at surface level, maybe that's how 6.0 came across. But the second mark, particularly in the short but not exclusively, was often used as the way to get the desired result by each judge. The short program had mandatory deductions. If a top skater was hit with a few of those and had to play catch up, their presentation score could always be bumped up a tenth or two, or however much versus skater B, so that the deductions really didn't matter anymore.

So in reality, they still weren't equal and never will be as artistry/presentation/program components are still subjective.

Also, with the crazy differences in attempted content between the top skaters in both mens and ladies, I like that there is a separation rather than handing Skater A with 5 quads a 5.9 and skater B with only a triple Axel a 5.8, or whatever, and then simply giving skater B the second mark.

 

[Colonel Green]

And although jumping did determine the first mark, the second mark was equal to the first. Now, TES, which is uncapped, can and often does outweigh PCS.

Functionally it doesn’t matter if the two marks aren’t of equal numerical value, since if you’re noticeably deficient in one you’re at a disadvantage.

Also, technical scores of above 100 (for men) and 80 (for ladies) are quite rare and generally achievable for only the cleanest skating, so in such cases your artistic mark is going to be very high anyway.

 

[Coco]

I never bought the argument that the 6.0 system resonated with the public. People got excited about a mark of 6.0 because they were told it meant "perfect."

Also, as soon as pro skating events started, they ditched 6.0 for 10.0, which really is ingrained in the public's consciousness as 'the perfect score.'

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Easier for Chevy to stick it on a paddle! Remember those paddles? Hubby & I still have ours from 2003 Worlds and take them out to wave when watching skating on TV, when someone has a great skate!

I too still own the Chevrolet paddle,but Mr. Bottems and I utilize it for other enterprises.

-BB

 

[MacMadame]

People immediately understands that system.

You must never have had to explain to someone why the skater who was in 3rd place was now in 4th and wouldn't get a medal.

I do agree that people thought they understood the 6.0 system. But they didn't, not even die-hard fans. You get points for things and the person with the most points wins is way easier to understand. It's how a lot of sports already work including very popular sports. Not only that but a bunch of other countries embraced IJS and now skating is wildly popular in their countries. So the logic isn't there to support "IJS ruined the sport."

 

[jmtfti]

FWIW, as far as a framework for who skating's potential and desired demographic currently is -- I watched skating a bit as a kid, but didn't become seriously invested until the IJS era, a scoring system which made sense to me as a fan of other sports. Thus 6.0 is meaningless to me, and I'm already in my 30s.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Personally, I've been thinking that football would be a lot more popular in the US if, instead of adding up the points for the things you do, people could earn a perfect score.

 

[tony]

Personally, I've been thinking that football would be a lot more popular in the US if, instead of adding up the points for the things you do, people could earn a perfect score.

No surprise, I’m taking this to be a facetious comment.

No surprise, I don’t get why comments like this happen when there are very few points systems needed to be learned in football regardless of what level fan you are. Also, last time I checked, if you miss a field goal, an extra point, or don’t get into the end zone in football, you get no points. So there’s that difference with skating.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I came into judging just as 6.0 was being wound down and IJS came in. I hated judging with 6.0. While you gave a value, it was still about placing skaters and then having to justify those placements.

Love judging with IJS so much more. And the results make more sense because they can be explained.

In Australia here, with our Learn to Skate program Aussie Skate we now have IJS as the basis for our judging. All the skaters get their elements individually assessed and marked under two components. A lot of work has gone into it and it is facilitated either using ISUCalc or an Excel spreadsheet. It was one of my goals when I took on the role of Sport Development Chair a couple of years ago.

Kids going forward in Australia won't have a clue that it ever existed except when they watch old programs.

 

[overedge]

The scoring system isn't the reason why skaters are not staying in the sport.