From Russia with Love [#35]: Winter 2019

[RoseRed]

Mama Tiff, I’m praying for the best for you and your team. I still can’t wrap my brain around how an entire country can get banned from the Olympics just because some athletes doped, and it feels very political to me. WADA claims to “protect clean athletes”, but it ended up hurting dozens of clean athletes by taking their flags and banning some clean athletes from the 2018 Olympics. That is not “fair sport”.
I support the Russian figure skating team no matter what <3

Not to start this argument again (and I very much want to see the Russian skaters in Beijing), but it's not because some athletes doped. It's because there was a state sponsored doping program. It's never been about individual athletes.

 

[Maofan7]

‘I need to lose a minimum of three kilos’: Olympic champ Zagitova on readiness to land quad

Reigning world and Olympic champion Alina Zagitova has revealed plans on adding extremely complicated quadruple jumps to her future programs, stressing that she needs to lose weight before attempting the move.

www.rt.com

 

[Wyliefan]

I suppose figure skating fans don't view this the same way as other sports. Perhaps we would think differently if we were fans of a sport with a chronic doping problem.

But I'm reading that it wouldn't be a full ban? Just the same as what happened at the 2018 Olympics where athletes competed as 'Olympic Athletes from Russia'?

I read that too. It would be hard for them, but it would certainly be better than not getting to go at all!

 

[Vash01]

‘I need to lose a minimum of three kilos’: Olympic champ Zagitova on readiness to land quad

Reigning world and Olympic champion Alina Zagitova has revealed plans on adding extremely complicated quadruple jumps to her future programs, stressing that she needs to lose weight before attempting the move.

www.rt.com

This worries me. Zagitova has a healthy body. Why ruin it just to learn the quad jumps? She has an OGM and a world championship. She is young and I understand her desire to win some more. I just hope she doesn’t do something crazy. Be prudent, Alina.

 

[starrynight]

This worries me. Zagitova has a healthy body. Why ruin it just to learn the quad jumps? She has an OGM and a world championship. She is young and I understand her desire to win some more. I just hope she doesn’t do something crazy. Be prudent, Alina.

I think this is an older quote? I've heard her say that before, earlier in the season. And with a comment that it wasn't in her plans to do this. Given that Zagitova doesn't even weigh 50kg, not sure where more than 3kg is going to come from.

But I'm thinking that the focus should be on getting Zagitova mentally focused and happy because she has the capacity to do these programs and win medals, it's just a psychological thing.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Not to start this argument again (and I very much want to see the Russian skaters in Beijing), but it's not because some athletes doped. It's because there was a state sponsored doping program. It's never been about individual athletes.

That is true. I just feel bad because in the whole history of skating, doping has rarely been an issue. It feels like the skaters are paying for the crimes of their country, and they didn’t even reap the rewards from it. It breaks my heart.

 

[hanca]

Not to start this argument again (and I very much want to see the Russian skaters in Beijing), but it's not because some athletes doped. It's because there was a state sponsored doping program. It's never been about individual athletes.

And yet Stolbova and Bukin were singled out. I am sure they were glad to hear that it wasn’t about individual athletes. I wouldn’t be surprised if the athletes to be singled out next time are Trusova, Kostornaya and Scherbakova, just to level the field a bit, because the decision seems to be quite political.

 

[Jeschke]

That is true. I just feel bad because in the whole history of skating, doping has rarely been an issue. It feels like the skaters are paying for the crimes of their country, and they didn’t even reap the rewards from it. It breaks my heart.

And yet the names related to doping in figure skating coming to my mind are very russian:
Berezhnaya
Larionova
Boborova
---
And more important, after the big doping scandal:
Shakun
Koshevaya (who skated at Universiade 2019)

And well, you know I love my russians, still

 

[hanca]

And yet the names related to doping in figure skating coming to my mind are very russian:
Berezhnaya
Larionova
Boborova
---
And more important, after the big doping scandal:
Shakun
Koshevaya (who skated at Universiade 2019)

And well, you know I love my russians, still

Bobrova didn’t do anything wrong. She took meldonium when it was allowed to do so. It wasn’t her fault that it stayed in her body longer than anyone thought. If you decide to ban something, you can’t start punishing people for taking it when it wasn’t banned.

 

[Jeschke]

Bobrova didn’t do anything wrong.

I didn't say she did.
I said:

And yet the names related to doping in figure skating coming to my mind are very russian

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I didn't say she did.
I said:

By that account every German can be linked as well since German also has a very illustrious past. Adding Bobrova was a very cheap shot.

 

[taz'smum]

From my understanding, there is great pressure on WADA to impose much stricter penalties on Russia, as it is deemed that the existing penalties have not changed anything in Russian mentality and that the doping culture has not been broken.

So I fear the worst tomorrow, a blanket ban.
The worst case scenario -

• No Olympics for Russia - without the invitations for clean athletes as there were in 2016
• A ban from World championships in all sports.

All I can hope, is that for the World championships at least, clean Russians can compete, even if it is without their flag.

I am praying my fears are ungrounded, as such action could have really damaging implications for the future of international sports.

 

[taz'smum]

By that account every German can be linked as well since German also has a very illustrious past. Adding Bobrova was a very cheap shot.

@Jeschke is a fan of Bobrova, so it is not a cheap shot, he is just being typically German and stating facts.

 

[hanca]

From my understanding, there is great pressure on WADA to impose much stricter penalties on Russia, as it is deemed that the existing penalties have not changed anything in Russian mentality and that the doping culture has not been broken.

So I fear the worst tomorrow, a blanket ban.
The worst case scenario -

• No Olympics for Russia - without the invitations for clean athletes as there were in 2016
• A ban from World championships in all sports.

All I can hope, is that for the World championships at least, clean Russians can compete, even if it is without their flag.

I am praying my fears are ungrounded, as such action could have really damaging implications for the future of international sports.

Yes, I can imagine how much certain countries would like to ban all athletes from world championships. Even the ones who have never done anything wrong. If you can’t defeat them, just ban them! It must be easier to lobby for banning them than teaching their own athletes to land quads...

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Even if Russia is allowed to compete in some form. I assume another French sports minister will be sitting in to hand out the bans. The last one did mighty fine job.

If there is a good news is Russia can appeal to CAS and they have time to go through the process. Unlike the last minute shenanigans of last two Olympics.

 

[taz'smum]

Even if Russia is allowed to compete in some form. I assume another French sports minister will be sitting in to hand out the bans. The last one did mighty fine job.

If there is a good news is Russia can appeal to CAS and they have time to go through the process. Unlike the last minute shenanigans of last two Olympics.

Let's hope the CAS process can be dragged out enough that Russian skaters can at least compete in this season's Worlds...

 

[Amy L]

Btw, Stolbova/Novoselov withdrew from Golden Spin of Zagreb because they never showed up to the competition. I'm assuming she is still ill.

From their official VK fansite, it was because of some kind of problems with Andrei's documentation. It wasn't a visa issue, but something else that was unspecified. It was also stated that everyone is healthy.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm praying with you, @taz'smum. Even if some sort of steps have to be taken, I don't want the athletes punished! It would be so grossly unfair!

 

[taz'smum]

I'm praying with you, @taz'smum. Even if some sort of steps have to be taken, I don't want the athletes punished! It would be so grossly unfair!

Thank you @Wyliefan
As Tiff and I always say, no point getting upset, que sera sera.
Accept whatever hand life deals you and move on!

 

[hanca]

Thank you @Wyliefan
As Tiff and I always say, no point getting upset, que sera sera.
Accept whatever hand life deals you and move on!

Que sera, sera? I thought T skates for Russia, so it should be ‘что будет то будет’ (shto budiet, to budiet).

 

[barbarafan]

Assuming the Russian fed would give a release, I believe there is no funding for Australian skaters, so it would be a non-starter, as both Tiff and Jon are self-funding. Also they are not spring chickens, and probably would not go on beyond this Olympic cycle anyway

I can't see Russia releasing them.Certainly if they do it will be well beyond the next Olympics.

 

[Mad for Skating]

From their official VK fansite, it was because of some kind of problems with Andrei's documentation. It wasn't a visa issue, but something else that was unspecified. It was also stated that everyone is healthy.

Oh, thanks for letting me know! I hope they will be ready for Nationals!

 

[barbarafan]

I understand your emotions.
I found it hard to see athletes compete in the last olympics who have already served doping bans, yet Russian athletes who had not served doping bans and had not failed any doping tests were not allowed to compete.

It is very sad with no fair answers and no way to tell for sure as it was done, approved and covered up at the top level and they still refuse to release the stored tests so they cannot clear anyone as failed tests were misreported. Maybe if they offered Putin some special brilliant science award for the whole scheme which would never have been discovered had there not been a whistleblower instead of all the Olympic golds he would knock it off....but I doubt it. Unless they hand over all the documents and stores Russians cannot prove their innocence. I do think they should never be allowed to hold international sporting events within Russia so there cannot be systematic controls but I think at all events held other places Russians should be able to compete but the country holding the event has to step up systems and security around the testing and procedures so all the athletes know that all the blood, sweat and tears was not for nothing.Also WADA needs to send supervisory teams to all major events from several countries kept secret until practice day. Yes it will cost money but I think it is necessary. How about a GO Fund Me with strict donation limits.

 

[taz'smum]

Que sera, sera? I thought T skates for Russia, so it should be ‘что будет то будет’ (shto budiet, to budiet).

To write in Russian on an English speaking forum would be a tad pretentious.
"Que sera, sera" has been in common usage in the English language since I was a child, so most people understand whereas they wouldn't understand the Russian.
Now my Russian is improving Tiff and I actually do speak a little in Russian....mostly to help me progress

 

[layman]

I am warming to the Russian ladies. I am very happy with Kostornaia's development. I really appreciate the spring in her jumps, the centering and speed in her spins...her general speed and flow. She seems to really listen to her music...there were moments in her programs where she was emoting and dancing along with her music. That's great to see. I give her major respect for her 3-axels.

Similarly, I appreciate that Sherbakova also seems musically aware. She times her moves to the music (which means that she actually listens to it) and uses her music to tell a compelling story. So many skaters fail to make the most of their music or fail to listen to their music. She's not one of them.

I love the way Sherbakova skates low in her knees and generates a great deal of speed, power and spring from her knees. Her Quad flip was bigger than most men's quad flips (I think it was almost too big for her to completely control the landing).

Sherbakova looks so delicate on the ice, like a porcelain princess, but she's obviously tremendously strong and I see a great deal of power and control in her skating. I just wish she would point her feet (but you can't have everything).

I have to give major props to Trusova for attempting five quads (and landing three cleanly). She is often criticized for being unartistic but she's the only one of the seniors who takes the time to point her feet and extend her line. She skates with a great deal of speed and flow. I appreciate her skating, although I don't think she is as musically aware as her teammates.

Zagitova seems to have grown a great deal since she won Olympic Gold. I am alarmed that she (and her team) think she can diet her way to quads. I don't think that's a winning strategy and we have all seen what the same strategy did to Lipnitskaya.

Personally, I think Zagitova should call it a career or if she is really serious about continuing and getting quads, switch to Mishin. Her current jump technique which relies so much on her upper body and the back spin position is not working with triples (at her current height) and will definitely not work for quads. She needs to learn to jump with her legs.

Of all the Russian ladies skating this weekend, I was most impressed with Kamila Valieva. Wow...where do I start. She skates as if her life depends on it...with tremendous speed, passion and attack. She listens to every note of her music and uses the music to make (powerful) choreographic points...even her jumps appear timed to her music. She times her jump rhythm so that she reaches the highest position in the air with the crescendo of her music. It makes her spectacular spring and lift even more spectacular and musically important. She takes the time to hold positions, extend her line completely and point her feet. She has the most beautiful stretch and turn-out that I have seen from a lady since Sasha Cohen. I am so impressed with the speed and flow in her skating. She never holds back. I get chills watching her.

Valieva does not need quads (though she can do them beautifully). She really does not need to prove anything with tricks because she has everything...her basic skating is so advanced, its mind boggling. I once mused whether Eteri had a 12 year old in her camp who would peak at just the right time for the next Olympics...Valieva is that skater. If they can keep her healthy, she has every thing that she needs to be a champion.

 

[Polaris]

^do you see any difference between Valieva and Kostornaia?

 

[taz'smum]

Que sera, sera? I thought T skates for Russia, so it should be ‘что будет то будет’ (shto budiet, to budiet).

@hanca - The correct expression is "Чему быть, того не миновать" - it won't translate correctly into English as it’s in old style Russian but it is used in this way.

It literally means
“What has to happen — can’t be avoided”

 

[Sylvia]

Russia's rising figure skating star Anna Shcherbakova invited us to her home in Moscow to talk about her early days in the sport, quads, social media, her beloved pets and Beijing 2022. "I think of myself as a fighter," she said. "I may look fragile and small but at the same time I try to show everything on the ice as a fully-fledged adult skater."

5 minute video:

Exclusive! Anna Shcherbakova on her love for jumping

Russian teen sensation Anna Shcherbakova explains what she loves about jumping. "It feels like flying," she told us.

www.olympicchannel.com

ETA:

Just a reminder that there's a thread in the Other Sports forum & I've just posted an update there: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-what-about-beijing-2022.106324/#post-5704570

 

[caseyedwards]

I'm praying with you, @taz'smum. Even if some sort of steps have to be taken, I don't want the athletes punished! It would be so grossly unfair!

Russian athletes aren’t safe

By not allowing any Russians to compete you are protecting them from the doping support of the Russian government. They would be protecting Russian athletes if they banned all of them. You have the case of Lysenko. He missed lots of tests and than the government created fraudulent documents to Protect him from WADA! Doping is very bad for athlete's health: Since there is no opposition to doping in Russian sports leadership they help dopers

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think this is an older quote? I've heard her say that before, earlier in the season. And with a comment that it wasn't in her plans to do this. Given that Zagitova doesn't even weigh 50kg, not sure where more than 3kg is going to come from.

No it is not an older quote. Zagitova said it with in last two weeks (I posted that link few pages back). She also seems to be still growing in height.. so the weight to height to muscle ratio is still tbd.