From Russia with Love [#35]: Winter 2019

[hanca]

So was Carolina Kostner, for several years. A lot of his students remained with Mishin for years and never complained about mistreatment or neglect.

However, to be fair, Lozko, Nugumanova, and few others, were not happy with their training process, tried to leave to join another coach. Mishin felt they went behind his back and/or that their complaints about training process had nothing to do with Mishin but the skaters' attitude towards training, and because he felt their claims are unfair and their behavior is "sneaky", he did use his authority to make their transfers difficult and almost impossible. But that was not the case with Krasnozhon.

I think it is very unreasonable to expect to have a top world level coach all to yourself and not have other students.

It’s interesting. When Lozko and Nugumanova ‘went behind his back’, he made sure that they were punished for it. Nugumanova was not able to compete at the nationals where she qualified, and Lozko was pulled out from her new coaching group and sent back to St Peter and then she disappeared from competitive skating. But when Gachinsky admitted that he left Mishin without actually telling him (so he also went behind his back), there were no consequences. Tarasova took him under her wing, and even Mishin forgave him and took him back into his group later on. It looks to me like double standards.

 

[Marco]

WOW!

I admire Tuk so much and that was a beautiful 4toe. But I can't help but wonder if this is too little too late. She is still going to be left behind due to her non jump elements and PCS. She has been so consistent with the 3axel and overall this season, but even with that said, she is still just a solid Russia #6 at this point (SB ~215) behind 2 veteran champions with no 3axels and quads. She may be able to surpass Alina (SB ~218) with a consistent 4toe together with 2 3axels, sadly I don't see her surpassing the big three (SB ~228 for Anna and 240+ for Sasha and Alena) and Evgenia (SB ~226).

With such good technique though, she may be able to outlast some of the ladies ahead of her, but that just means another bunch of junior ladies will rush past her in no time.

 

[Dobre]

With such good technique though, she may be able to outlast some of the ladies ahead of her, but that just means another bunch of junior ladies will rush past her in no time.

Have you been watching the next batch of junior ladies though? They are not as a whole as strong as this group right now. They have time to grow and develop. Who knows what surprises we have in store during the second half of this junior season & next. But I believe the group on the JGP right now is the last group that will come up age-eligible by the Olympics. Correct? (I'm not good with dates. I'm just under that impression because I know Alysa Liu won't be age-eligible until the Olympic year, and she is already on the JGP). Valieva has a beautiful quad toe. She could certainly learn more. Kanysheva may be competitive when she recovers.

But your statement is an assumption and not entirely well-founded based on the tools we have seen from Liza or the younger athletes at this point in time.

 

[starrynight]

Don’t PCS rise with tech? Im kind of convinced that if Tukt landed that quad toe in competition her fortunes in the PCS department would change pretty quickly.

Having a quad changes everything. Would people be hyping Trusova if she only had triples?

 

[Vash01]

Don’t PCS rise with tech? Im kind of convinced that if Tukt landed that quad toe in competition her fortunes in the PCS department would change pretty quickly.

Having a quad changes everything. Would people be hyping Trusova if she only had triples?

I hope that the quad will earn the respect of judges for Liza. Judges like it when a skater is trying to add more difficult elements. However, I am not sure of that in Liza’s case. They have been oddly undermarking her technically. I really hope I am wrong.

 

[bardtoob]

I would not call Brown a lady. Too many quads in ladies now

Nobody called Jason Brown "a lady" or "skating like a lady" or said his skating is "not man-like".
Russian word for "man" can be turned into an adjective with several meanings suggesting gender, sex, and a sports category of "Men's event" vs. "Ladies event" in sports. It can mean "man", "male", "masculine", etc.

When someone says for example that Brown is not doing "man skating", it means he does not have the content expected today in a "Men's Singles event" and not that his content is "un-manly". When some-one says his content is "woman like", in russian languages it means his tech content is in the rank of the tech content in "Ladies Singles", not that he "skates like a woman".

The issue of Brown not having quads since 2016 is a common conversation. So are the comments that "girls can beat boys with quads" and "which girl would have placed on the podium in a men's event" in the whole FS worlds. This is not about "sexual orientation" or hints of such.

I would rather say Brown skates like a Jr.

 

[reut]

My interview with Anjelika Krylova:

Anjelika Krylova: "I love to always be busy"
http://absoluteskating.com/interviews/2019krylova.html

 

[Mad for Skating]

What a great saying! Certainly applies to the attitude towards Tutberidze and her skaters...

It certainly applies to Tutberidze's skaters. I have no more words about Eteri herself.

WADA recommends Russia face new Olympic ban

WADA Committee Recommends Russia Face New Olympic Ban (Published 2019)

A panel at the World Anti-Doping Agency has recommended that Russia face a four-year ban from global sports and new restrictions on its athletes and teams at next year’s Tokyo Olympics.

www.nytimes.com

The recommendations are far-reaching but, I would imagine, quite unlikely to be adopted in full.

This honestly scares me. I understand WADA is trying to do their job, but it all feels so extreme. If they're really trying to "protect clean athletes", they should also be protecting these teenage girls who've been dreaming about the Olympics since they could walk and had nothing to do with doping.

WOW!

That's a beauty! I hope to see it in competition. Thank you, Empress Tuk!

Losing opportunity to go to Olympics would suck, but it happened to people before and they lived.

"They lived"...I dare you to go talk to Stolbova and Bukin and hear what they have to say about it. I highly doubt they received the news and went, "oh, that sucks".

 

[Vash01]

I admire Tuk so much and that was a beautiful 4toe. But I can't help but wonder if this is too little too late. She is still going to be left behind due to her non jump elements and PCS. She has been so consistent with the 3axel and overall this season, but even with that said, she is still just a solid Russia #6 at this point (SB ~215) behind 2 veteran champions with no 3axels and quads. She may be able to surpass Alina (SB ~218) with a consistent 4toe together with 2 3axels, sadly I don't see her surpassing the big three (SB ~228 for Anna and 240+ for Sasha and Alena) and Evgenia (SB ~226).

With such good technique though, she may be able to outlast some of the ladies ahead of her, but that just means another bunch of junior ladies will rush past her in no time.

Liza has longevity. She is no flash in the pan. She is not sitting on her laurels. These things make me respect her.

About junior girls passing her, only time will tell. The current Russian junior ladies don’t appear to me as strong as the three A’s . They are losing to the Koreans and the Japanese. They may not dominate the way last year’s crop did. Things change. I won’t assume that Liza has no future in Russia. She is willing to work hard. She has improved her speed this year. She can improve further. Technique is her strength and she is wise to use that.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This honestly scares me. I understand WADA is trying to do their job, but it all feels so extreme. If they're really trying to "protect clean athletes", they should also be protecting these teenage girls who've been dreaming about the Olympics since they could walk and had nothing to do with doping.

I am sure they want to protect teenage girls. Just not the Russian ones. And I also find that very scary.

 

[soogar]

Liza has longevity. She is no flash in the pan. She is not sitting on her laurels. These things make me respect her.

About junior girls passing her, only time will tell. The current Russian junior ladies don’t appear to me as strong as the three A’s . They are losing to the Koreans and the Japanese. They may not dominate the way last year’s crop did. Things change. I won’t assume that Liza has no future in Russia. She is willing to work hard. She has improved her speed this year. She can improve further. Technique is her strength and she is wise to use that.

Totally agree. Timing is everything in skating. Evgenia was dominating and then she experienced an injury in the Olympic year that allowed Zagitova to build momentum towards an Olympic gold medal. The three A's are doing well this year but injuries and growth happens. Liza has a few years to work on her choreography and add technical content. You never know, by Olympic year, she could have 2 quads plus the triple axel and be a factor for the Russian team.

 

[Tinami Amori]

New joke in russian FS:
Trusova's apartment in 2026.

https://sun9-71.userapi.com/c857020/v857020697/5d872/TBeaL_Uexvk.jpg

 

[Vash01]

Totally agree. Timing is everything in skating. Evgenia was dominating and then she experienced an injury in the Olympic year that allowed Zagitova to build momentum towards an Olympic gold medal. The three A's are doing well this year but injuries and growth happens. Liza has a few years to work on her choreography and add technical content. You never know, by Olympic year, she could have 2 quads plus the triple axel and be a factor for the Russian team.

She could have a quad toe and a quad toe triple toe combination. Those would be big points. If she can somehow get the quad lutz by next year, that will be great. Her pcs will go up just because she can land the quads. Keeping my fingers crossed for her.

 

[PRlady]

Grandmothers, quads and 3A... yes, they can DO IT!.

• Liza is 23 and she did a quad and has 3A. that just proves there is a quad-life after puberty...
• Bonaly performed quad at 19, and Ando at 22-24.. clean or not (in competition) is another issue.
• any top athlete can do 3A and quad if the ration between weight+muscles/power+technique is there.
• but it important to start learning early, to programme your body that it is a "norm" and to avoid "fear" which comes later with age.
• If physical condition is right and the technique and willingness, the only factor later in years is "fear".

Liza started learning quad at 13. She said so in her 2015 interview, stating that she was learning it since 13 along with 3A, but later developed fear. Later in her 2018 interview she said she thought of it but did not need it since she had the 3A which she thought was enough, and that she was now afraid of the quad.
2015

Елизавета Туктамышева: «Хочу оставить след в истории фигурного катания»

Чемпионка Европы и победительница финала Гран-при Елизавета Туктамышева впервые в карьере выиграла мировое первенство, которое проходит в Шанхае. Эта победа россиянки стала знаковой для мирового

fsrussia.ru

2018

ÐлизавеÑа ТÑкÑамÑÑева: «ÐÑмала попÑобоваÑÑ ÑеÑвеÑной лÑÑÑ, но ÑÑо оÑÐµÐ½Ñ ÑÑÑаÑно»

РоÑÑийÑÐºÐ°Ñ ÑигÑÑиÑÑка ÐлизавеÑа ТÑкÑамÑÑева ÑаÑÑказала о Ñом, какие ÑлеменÑÑ ÑлÑÑÑа-Ñи ÑоÑÐµÑ Ð¸Ð·ÑÑиÑÑ Ð² бÑдÑÑем.

www.sports.ru

Medvedeva, who started to "advertise" her quad attempts this summer, which created a lot of sensation, and there were rumors that she tried it at show in Japan, and later she published a video of her attempt on the fishing pole, and stating that she spends at least 40 minutes a day preparing for it, when asked about it at the GP Russia, snapped back at the journalists when they asked "how is your quad going":

"I am working on the quad? Honestly, i am a bit sick and tired of this question. My priority is to be healthy, and not to end up jumping on broken legs. I have a fragile body, it needs care, what to eat, when to sleep. Yes, i want to learn it, but will not discuss the training process now."
«Учу ли я четверной? Мне, признаться, немного надоел этот вопрос. Для меня главное – сохранить здоровье, а не прыгать на сломанных костях. Тело у меня хрупкое, нужно следить, во сколько ем и ложусь спать. Конечно, хочу выучить четверной сальхов, но пока не хочется открывать тренировочный процесс»,

She tried it, but at certain age, it seems that "fear" plays a role..

Daniil Gleikhengauz and Alina Zagitova recently gave an interview to NBC Olympics (in English), where he spoke about the quad learning process, and Alina mentioned her weight and quad plans.

Alina Zagitova pushes artistry while younger Russians focus on jumping prowess

“For now, I can’t skate like Carolina Kostner yet,” Olympic and world champion Alina Zagitova said while laughing, “but I’m working at it.”

olympics.nbcsports.com

Alina's is a quick one: she said in this and past interviews (when someone posted a fishing-pole quad attempt) that she is 3 kg (5 lbs) overweight to continue with quad attempts, will not consider it until she is in the right form. She will not try 4T or 4S, but rather 4F or 4L if it comes to it.
“Quads are too dangerous for me for the time being,” Zagitova acknowledged. “I will need to prepare for them physically and mentally. I will also need to lose some weight, something like three kilos, to decrease the risk of injuries.

Daniil said this:
“Learning a quad is a question of mentality,” Gleikhengauz said. “When you are 11 or 13, you’re falling every day, as you are learning triple jumps. Then you master them. You start learning triple Axels and quads – and again you fall, fall, fall. And then you master them and you don’t fall anymore. What happens next is that you forget about falling and how to fall. When you have to learn triple Axel or quad later on, then you’re really scared about it and it may become dangerous for you.”
--
“When Alina was younger, no one thought of quads for ladies,” he explained. “She learned the most difficult jumps of that time. Then, we pushed to have our pupils land them in the second half of their programs [because it was worth more points under the rules]. Then, we asked ourselves ‘what’s next?’ We thought that maybe quads would be coming up, and we taught quads to the newcomers. They learned harder jumps.

“Alina is very smart,” Gleikhengauz continued. “She understands that she is 17 years old, not 11 or 12. The current generation will learn quads and land them for several years. At this point in time, ladies’ skating is at the top of technique, so it’s a little bit tough to maintain yourself many years, as technique is going so fast. Tomorrow will be different. Quads will be there for 10 to 15 years. So those girls who are mastering quads [now] will have many more years.”

Only comment is that 3 kG is 6.8 pounds. If that’s how much Zags thinks she has to lose to try quads, she should check in with Liza who isn’t a toothpick either.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Only comment is that 3 kG is 6.8 pounds. If that’s how much Zags thinks she has to lose to try quads, she should check in with Liza who isn’t a toothpick either.

right about weight in lbs. these girls have different proportions, and Liza started learning quad at 13 (per her own words), her body has "an early memory" of the jump. The issue of Zagitova now being 2-3 kg heavier than in the past summer is not totally untrue, regardless of a particular jump. (I am not saying Zagitova is fat... or should starve herself). Tuk has lost some weight also, during last month..

 

[soogar]

Only comment is that 3 kG is 6.8 pounds. If that’s how much Zags thinks she has to lose to try quads, she should check in with Liza who isn’t a toothpick either.

I wouldn't say Liza is not a toothpick. Don't know how tall Zagitova is now, but I think Liza is 5'1 or 5'2, and her frame is more compact than Zagitova's - shorter legs and arms. 100-110 pounds on Liza will be a lot different than it is on a leggier girl like Zagitova.

 

[starrynight]

Liza has a figure that reminds me a bit of a US gymnast (maybe like Simone Biles). Short, compact and with a really strong pair of legs.

If you look at the technical feats of Simone Biles, I sometimes wonder that if ladies skating is going to turn into gymnastics on ice, a figure like hers might be a good one to have. Although of course skaters don't need the upper body strength Biles has.

 

[sk9tingfan]

From the male side of things, I just came across this on YouTube. Not totally sure how old Alexander is based on the title.

Alexander Plushenko, son of Evgeni Plushenko, 6,9 years, Tango Amore, 27.10.2019

Кубок Евгения Плющенко, Москва. 2 юношеский разряд, 1 место

www.youtube.com

 

[Tinami Amori]

From the male side of things, I just came across this on YouTube. Not totally sure how old Alexander is based on the title.

Alexander Plushenko, son of Evgeni Plushenko, 6,9 years, Tango Amore, 27.10.2019

Кубок Евгения Плющенко, Москва. 2 юношеский разряд, 1 место

www.youtube.com

It says 6,9 (russians use , where others use . ). In english it would be 6.9 - 6 years, 9 months.

 

[sk9tingfan]

It says 6,9 (russians use , where others use . ). In english it would be 6.9 - 6 years, 9 months.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Mad for Skating]

I am sure they want to protect teenage girls. Just not the Russian ones. And I also find that very scary.

Yeah, that's true. I think they mean well, but they forget about who will get hurt in the process. A committee should protect all clean athletes, not just the ones who are from unproblematic countries.

Only comment is that 3 kG is 6.8 pounds. If that’s how much Zags thinks she has to lose to try quads, she should check in with Liza who isn’t a toothpick either.

I think the problem is Alina's jumping technique. Tutberidze's technique for teaching a quad requires a stick-thin child's body with no curves, like Shcherbakova. Alina is a slender girl, but she's 17 and has already gone through puberty, and you can't reverse that. Losing 6.8 pounds is only going to make her muscles weaker - it won't make her body 13 again.

If Alina wants to safely learn a quad, I would send her to Mishin. Liza's jumps rely on the sheer strength in her legs, so she can be a healthy weight and still jump well. Liza is by no means a heavy person, but she has the body of an adult woman and clearly has incredible jumps.

 

[BittyBug]

Liza's jumps rely on the sheer strength in her legs....

This makes it sound like Tukt muscles her jumps, when she does anything but. Maybe you are trying to say that her rotational force doesn't rely primarily on her upper body? That's not an issue of strength, it's an issue of technique.

 

[Finsta]

Surely Eteri has tried quads with Zagitova as proven by the videos of Alina attempting quad with the pole. Maybe she is just not capable.

 

[soogar]

It says 6,9 (russians use , where others use . ). In english it would be 6.9 - 6 years, 9 months.

How talented is he? I can't really tell but a lot of the girl skaters his age have double jumps and Gogolov was a few months older playing around with quads. For all the skating he does, he doesn't really seem to have good skating ability. However it is hard to tell with young kids, some have better coordination at a younger age and others develop coordination as they get older. It just seems that he has been skating for years and still looks the same.

I think it's so endearing to see Plush coaching his little boy. Such a proud papa.

 

[TAHbKA]

Think Lipnitskaya been there/done that. Tried to weight 37kg to get her jumps back.

 

[Ananas Astra]

How talented is he? I can't really tell but a lot of the girl skaters his age have double jumps and Gogolov was a few months older playing around with quads. For all the skating he does, he doesn't really seem to have good skating ability. However it is hard to tell with young kids, some have better coordination at a younger age and others develop coordination as they get older. It just seems that he has been skating for years and still looks the same.

I think it's so endearing to see Plush coaching his little boy. Such a proud papa.

IIRC he gets to recycle his dad's programs in even the same costumes, but of course not the same content and I read somewhere they only send him to competitions organized by Plushenko's skating club or competitions where he would surely win in order to profit from the hype as "the Mini-Plush, Champion of the Future".

 

[hanca]

I don’t think it is important how good skater mini Pluschenko is at the age of six. He still has nine or ten years before he is senior eligible. There are top skaters who haven’t even skated at this age. There are skaters like Gubanova who were ahead of everyone else when she was 11, then other ladies from her age group caught up by the time she was junior eligible, and by the time she is senior, she dropped even further in Russian ranking and is lucky to qualify for the nationals. Samodurova, who was so far behind her at the age of 11 is now European champion and Gubanova will probably never compete at Europeans or worlds. Similarly, if anyone watched Zagitova two years before the Olympics they would never guess that this would be a future olympic champion. She was only 9th in Russian junior nationals and did not do any international competitions because she wasn’t good enough yet.
So whatever mini Pluschenko is doing, no point worrying that he is not talented enough. If he decides that he wants it, he can catch up pretty quickly.

 

[Ka3sha]

Very interesting interview with Yuko Kavaguti on her life in St Petersburg, her thoughts abour quad jumps and quad throws, Russian mentality, relationships with Smirnov and Moskvina and many more things

 

[Satellizer]

New interview with Zueva about T/M.

https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/248299

 

[alchemy void]

Very interesting interview with Yuko Kavaguti on her life in St Petersburg, her thoughts abour quad jumps and quad throws, Russian mentality, relationships with Smirnov and Moskvina and many more things

Thank you for the link. Fascinating article. I got a chuckle at her dissatisfaction with the local ballet.

And, of course, I had to rewatch Manfred Symphony again. Absolutely brilliant.