From Russia with Love [#34]: Autumn 2019

[Cherub721]

It is the coach's job to take interest in whoever she is coaching. You can't blame T&M for Mozer's lack of interest in them. It is not like they were lazy, unwilling to work, or devoid of talent. Why should a skater "inspire" a coach? Moskvina worked with skaters who did not have natural talent but made them medal winners - e.g. Bechke and Petrov. She coached 'lazy' skaters too. She took on skaters that went nowhere because they just didn't have the talent.

I am surprised that despite Mozer's indifference, Zhenya seemed to depend on her a lot for support.

This! It's literally part of the coach's job to style and package the pair properly. PCS is half the score. This is a technically brilliant team who could contend for OGM. How could you send them to the Olympics with that LP and costume? It severely handicapped their possibility to win, why would you do that? And even if the skaters wanted or liked the program the coach can say no. I remember reading how Tessa wanted to wear a pink dress for the 2010 Olympics FD and Marina insisted on white. Most coaches will obsess over every detail of costume, music cuts, each element and transition to come up with that perfect Olympic moment. Morozov may be a jerk, but he is known for doing this. I really felt like S&M, S&H, and D&R had whole teams of people behind them to make sure they looked and felt their best on the ice. If she wasn't "inspired" by them then she should have stepped aside and stop taking her salary for working with them. I recall TAT doing this in the 80s because she was invested in B&B.

 

[Vash01]

This! It's literally part of the coach's job to style and package the pair properly. PCS is half the score. This is a technically brilliant team who could contend for OGM. How could you send them to the Olympics with that LP and costume? It severely handicapped their possibility to win, why would you do that? And even if the skaters wanted or liked the program the coach can say no. I remember reading how Tessa wanted to wear a pink dress for the 2010 Olympics FD and Marina insisted on white. Most coaches will obsess over every detail of costume, music cuts, each element and transition to come up with that perfect Olympic moment. Morozov may be a jerk, but he is known for doing this. I really felt like S&M, S&H, and D&R had whole teams of people behind them to make sure they looked and felt their best on the ice. If she wasn't "inspired" by them then she should have stepped aside and stop taking her salary for working with them. I recall TAT doing this in the 80s because she was invested in B&B.

I had to stop at “Morozov May be a jerk” and then I realized which Morozov you meant.
Certainly not Vladimir.

 

[Dobre]

How did Morozov go from Ghost to the masterpiece that was I/K’s Swan Lake?

Well, he had already done Swan Lake at least twice. He has one genius program that he drags out in every discipline. He's probably already airing it out for Stolbova in 2022.

 

[rfisher]

Well, he had already done Swan Lake at least twice. He has one genius program that he drags out in every discipline. He's probably already airing it out for Stolbova in 2022.

If Stolbova is competitive in 2022, I'm all in for Swan Lake. Give her some feathers and let her be that dark swan.

 

[Tinami Amori]

No, not to my knowledge. Lori has not choreographed for any other senior pairs skaters, that I’m aware of, since at least 2015.

If she is under contract with Chinese Federation "not work for any other country's top senior pairs", then it makes sense.

 

[Cherub721]

I had to stop at “Morozov May be a jerk” and then I realized which Morozov you meant.
Certainly not Vladimir.

Haha. Nikolai of course!

 

[starrynight]

How could you send them to the Olympics with that LP and costume? It severely handicapped their possibility to win, why would you do that?

I will never ever ever be able to understand how that program and those cheap costumes happened for the top Russian pair. I think the tacky costumes are what killed the program, to be honest.

 

[love_skate2011]

Are you Mirizoev pretending as a super fan of M/G ?, because that is closest I can explain this obsession that is putting too many people off from M/G. I am starting to dislike M/G thanks to your comments, and it has nothing to do them, just overhype from you.

No, but the dismissive reaction to their GP debut is a let down
where you have pairs like B/K who didnt even lit up the GP in their debut and struggles with consistency.

fine if some like B/K because they are suppose to be more artistic ?
but give credit where its due. M/G have had a better GP and results than B/K
people only like B/K because they are coached by Moskvina, nobody would pay attention to them if they were coached by someone else btw she is only 17 years old younger than Mishina by a year, she is taller the Mishina so her puberty isnt over for Boikova.

Height difference is the golden rule in pairs, if that's thrown off. The Partnership is DONE.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I will never ever ever be able to understand how that program and those cheap costumes happened for the top Russian pair. I think the tacky costumes are what killed the program, to be honest.

That what happens when a coach let the skaters pick their own music and progrmmes... which they love and think are great and happy, and that they are "conveying what they want to the audience" and don't listen to anyone....

Евгения Тарасова – Владимир Морозов: «В любой ситуации мы поддерживаем друг друга»

Евгения Тарасова – Владимир Морозов выиграли свой второй этап Гран-при, на этот раз во Франции, и второй сезон подряд отобрались в финал серии. После соревнований фигуристы ответили на вопросы

fsrussia.ru

Владимир: Так и есть. Новые программы, более сложные, более интересные.
Vldimir: That's how it is. Our new progrmmes are more complex, more interesting.
--
Евгения: Да. С каждым стартом прибавляем в эмоциях, стараемся кататься друг для друга, для зрителей, танцевать. Это снимает напряжение. Выходишь на произвольную программу, начинает играть веселая музыка, тебе становиться весело и отвлекает от напряжения.
Evgenia: Yes, each skate we add more emotions, trying to skate for each other and the audience, to dance. That removes the pressure. As we come out to skate the FS, we hear the happy music, and we feel happy and our minds are off the pressure.
---
-- Кто предложил музыку для произвольной программы?
Владимир: Мы выбирали втроем – Петр Чернышев, Женя и я. Месяц ставили эту программу. Основная идея была показать стиль – танцевальный – рок-н-ролл, буги-вуги, и под него искали соответствующую музыку. Мы смотрели, какую музыку берут те, кто танцует в этом стиле, что они делают. И для того, чтобы зрителям было понятно, выбирали знакомые мотивы. Чаще всего для танцев брали Кристину Агилеру, поэтому и мы взяли ее известные мелодии. Мы хотели выдержать стилистическую танцевальную линию – рок-н-ролл, буги-вуги.

Плюс в этой программе были и другие задумки. Например, показать флирт. Женя флиртует со мной. Я ведусь на это. И все это нужно было не просто показать, а соединить с элементами. Поначалу было сложновато объединить эти маленькие сценки с тем, что мы должны делать в программе, чисто исполнять элементы. Но от старта к старту становится лучше, зрителям понятнее.

-Who suggested this music for the FS?
Vladimir: We did, all together - Chernishev, Evgeniya and I. It took a month to develop it. Our main idea was to show rock-n-roll style - dancing rock-n-roll, boogie-woogie, and looked for the suitable music. We looked at others (skaters) who dance in this style, what music they chose, and what they do. And to please the audience picked something they are familiar with. Others often used Christina Aguilera so we picked her famous pieces. We wanted to portray the dance style - rock-n-roll and boogie woogie.

Plus in this programme there are other ideas we wanted to show. For example to show "flirting". Evgenia is flirting with me, and i go for it. Not only we need to show this, we need to interline it with the elements. At first it was hard, to connect the little theatrical episodes with programme elements and to do them clean. But closer to the starts, it works better, more understandable for the audience.

 

[Vash01]

No, but the dismissive reaction to their GP debut is a let down
where you have pairs like B/K who didnt even lit up the GP in their debut and struggles with consistency.

fine if some like B/K because they are suppose to be more artistic ?
but give credit where its due. M/G have had a better GP and results than B/K
people only like B/K because they are coached by Moskvina, nobody would pay attention to them if they were coached by someone else btw she is only 17 years old younger than Mishina by a year, she is taller the Mishina so her puberty isnt over for Boikova.

Height difference is the golden rule in pairs, if that's thrown off. The Partnership is DONE.

And I am done with your silly posts. I love the Ignore button.

 

[Vash01]

That what happens when a coach let the skaters pick their own music and progrmmes... which they love and think are great and happy, and that they are "conveying what they want to the audience" and don't listen to anyone....

Евгения Тарасова – Владимир Морозов: «В любой ситуации мы поддерживаем друг друга»

Евгения Тарасова – Владимир Морозов выиграли свой второй этап Гран-при, на этот раз во Франции, и второй сезон подряд отобрались в финал серии. После соревнований фигуристы ответили на вопросы

fsrussia.ru

Владимир: Так и есть. Новые программы, более сложные, более интересные.
Vldimir: That's how it is. Our new progrmmes are more complex, more interesting.
--
Евгения: Да. С каждым стартом прибавляем в эмоциях, стараемся кататься друг для друга, для зрителей, танцевать. Это снимает напряжение. Выходишь на произвольную программу, начинает играть веселая музыка, тебе становиться весело и отвлекает от напряжения.
Evgenia: Yes, each skate we add more emotions, trying to skate for each other and the audience, to dance. That removes the pressure. As we come out to skate the FS, we hear the happy music, and we feel happy and our minds are off the pressure.
---
-- Кто предложил музыку для произвольной программы?
Владимир: Мы выбирали втроем – Петр Чернышев, Женя и я. Месяц ставили эту программу. Основная идея была показать стиль – танцевальный – рок-н-ролл, буги-вуги, и под него искали соответствующую музыку. Мы смотрели, какую музыку берут те, кто танцует в этом стиле, что они делают. И для того, чтобы зрителям было понятно, выбирали знакомые мотивы. Чаще всего для танцев брали Кристину Агилеру, поэтому и мы взяли ее известные мелодии. Мы хотели выдержать стилистическую танцевальную линию – рок-н-ролл, буги-вуги.

Плюс в этой программе были и другие задумки. Например, показать флирт. Женя флиртует со мной. Я ведусь на это. И все это нужно было не просто показать, а соединить с элементами. Поначалу было сложновато объединить эти маленькие сценки с тем, что мы должны делать в программе, чисто исполнять элементы. Но от старта к старту становится лучше, зрителям понятнее.

-Who suggested this music for the FS?
Vladimir: We did, all together - Chernishev, Evgeniya and I. It took a month to develop it. Our main idea was to show rock-n-roll style - dancing rock-n-roll, boogie-woogie, and looked for the suitable music. We looked at others (skaters) who dance in this style, what music they chose, and what they do. And to please the audience picked something they are familiar with. Others often used Christina Aguilera so we picked her famous pieces. We wanted to portray the dance style - rock-n-roll and boogie woogie.

Plus in this programme there are other ideas we wanted to show. For example to show "flirting". Evgenia is flirting with me, and i go for it. Not only we need to show this, we need to interline it with the elements. At first it was hard, to connect the little theatrical episodes with programme elements and to do them clean. But closer to the starts, it works better, more understandable for the audience.

I put the sad sign because they sound so ignorant. Just because Rock n Roll worked for other skaters doesn’t mean it is right for them. What were the coaches doing? Letting them get on the wrong track and become a laughing stock? It is the coach’s responsibility to guide them to success.

I keep bringing in Tamara as an example, but I won’t apologize for it. Elena Anton hated classical music. Tamara picked classical music that showcased their strengths. When they got tired of classical, there was the Santana exhibition, and the Citylights/Chaplin LP. It was not classical but it wasn’t unsuitable to them. They bought into the Chaplin idea and created great entertaining programs choreographed by Igor Bobrin.

B&S loved their Citylights LP but politics and judges said, no that’s too much like an exhibition. Tamara listened to the judges and created the Meditation LP which satisfied the judges. In the Olympic season in particular they had to do what the judges wanted them to do.

What did Mozer do in T&M’s Olympic season? She let them run with Candyman. I consider that coaching malpractice. I dont think she did it to hurt them, but she just didn’t care. Moskvina cares about her skaters and gives them what helps them improve.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Does anyone know what the Russian fed. thought about Candyman? Did they say anything after the program reveal?

Was everyone involved (Mozer / Federation) so concerned about S / K (who were clearly going down anyway before the wack decision to ban them from the Olympics) that T / M were simply left to their own devices for the most part? Everyone was living and dying with S / K, clinging to the magic of Sochi and the promising future it showed, that the reigning world bronze medalists just weren't anyone's top priority? That's the only thing I can think of.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Mozer and the federation were told S / K were banned from the Olympics and the realization that all hopes for gold were now on T / M. I wouldn't be shocked if they all gave up right on the spot and are still tying to recover from it. I wouldn't blame T / M for the problems they've had ever since then with that type of treatment.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Does anyone know what the Russian fed. thought about Candyman? Did they say anything after the program reveal?

of course they did not..... T/M won their first try out at Nebelhorn and then 2 GP events that followed. The team got to the prize money, and Feds got their cut.

Plus this programme appeared to be an element of "self-expression and vision". That's what happens when skaters without proper education and knowledge of the world trends, want to "express themselves" and are allowed to do so..

If all one does is "skate", no matter how old one is, his/her brains are "limited". They need supervision, but that's not politically correct. So you either have a brainy person like Nathan Chen, who combines high-level education with visions of programmes... and WINS. Or you have to have someone like Eteri and Team, to guide the "athletes" in the right direction, doing all the calculations for them, and then they WIN.

The "freedom of self-discovery and expression" on ice by athletes is overrated... Either someone has the intellect and knowledge to follow the right direction for oneself, or the others mostly younger ones, follow to the T what smarter coaches give them.

I want to express myself now, works only in the movies.....

Audrey Hepburn's Crazy Dance

Very Cute Audrey Hepburn Dance from movie "Funny Face". Choreography by Eugene Loring.

www.youtube.com

 

[puglover]

Maybe I am naive but I thought that "candyman" was not a well liked program or one that seemed to suit T/M but the disappointing result at the Olympics was because of challenges with a few elements and not with the feelings about the program itself.

 

[Vash01]

Does anyone know what the Russian fed. thought about Candyman? Did they say anything after the program reveal?

Was everyone involved (Mozer / Federation) so concerned about S / K (who were clearly going down anyway before the wack decision to ban them from the Olympics) that T / M were simply left to their own devices for the most part? Everyone was living and dying with S / K, clinging to the magic of Sochi and the promising future it showed, that the reigning world bronze medalists just weren't anyone's top priority? That's the only thing I can think of.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Mozer and the federation were told S / K were banned from the Olympics and the realization that all hopes for gold were now on T / M. I wouldn't be shocked if they all gave up right on the spot and are still tying to recover from it. I wouldn't blame T / M for the problems they've had ever since then with that type of treatment.

I find it odd that Mozer and the RSF were so invested in S&K in 2018. They were a wonderful pair but they were already battling injuries and inconsistency. At the 2016 worlds they finished behind T&M, because of technical mistakes (T&M skated clean and they were the highest placed Russian pair). Why didn’t they support a talented and healthy pair? They could have supported both, but they put all their eggs in the S&K basket in 2017 and 2018, despite the recurring injury issues. The RSF and Mozer were their own worst enemies.

 

[Vash01]

Maybe I am naive but I thought that "candyman" was not a well liked program or one that seemed to suit T/M but the disappointing result at the Olympics was because of challenges with a few elements and not with the feelings about the program itself.

You are right. T&M won the Europeans when they skated relatively clean. I think S&M didn’t compete there (correct me if I am wrong). The competition was not as tough as in the Olympics, IIRC.

However, I doubt that a clean skate at the 2018 Olympics would have been enough to beat S&M and S&H who had far superior LPs. At best T&M would have won the bronze, but it would have made them feel much better than finishing off the podium, with a poorly skated LP. Candyman was just so wrong for them, they really had no realistic shot of winning the OGM with it, unless other top pairs made major mistakes. S&H had just one small mistake and S&M were perfect in the LP. From Zhenya’s interview later that season it sounded like they believed that they could win the OGM after they placed a close second to S&H in the SP. I am not so sure.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Actually, I don’t think Mozer favored S/K over T/M in 2018. After 2014, she was definitely planning on coaching S/K to a medal in 2018, and at the time, T/M were barely seniors and had not reached S/K’s level. However, I think her plans shifted in the 2016-17 season when S/K struggled with injuries and T/M started to pass S/K. She seemed to think she had two medal-worthy pairs, which wasn’t far from the truth. In all fairness, neither S/K nor T/M could’ve beaten Savchenko/Massot or Sui/Han in Pyeongchang, even if they had skated their best, so they were fighting for bronze at best. When S/K kept struggling in the Olympic year, I think Mozer turned towards her darlings Zabiiako/Enbert for a Russian #2 pair because she sensed S/K weren’t going to hold on much longer (the Olympic ban sadly solidified that). After T/M didn’t medal in the individual event at the Olympics, I think Mozer started pushing Z/E as her backup plan. When T/M weren’t able to dominate in the 2018-19 season (although they still earned some major medals that year), it seemed Mozer invested more into Z/E because she thought they would be her best chance at an Olympic medal in 2022 (although this doesn’t seem logical because T/M were still scoring much higher than Z/E, even with mistakes). I don’t think Mozer is evil, and I do think she tries her best, but she has her own biases that sometimes seem to affect her judgment.

If Stolbova is competitive in 2022, I'm all in for Swan Lake. Give her some feathers and let her be that dark swan.

You bet! This is one of my dream programs for her. I can settle for this year’s dark Moonlight Sonata though.

 

[Jeschke]

Breathe @love_skate2011 !
Big belly splat of Galiamov going into the spin at RC IV SP.

Kубок Роccии Ростелекoм 2019 2020 гг , Пaрное катаниe, MС Короткая программа 1# А МИШИНА А ГАЛ

youtu.be

Oh, the consistency in ruins.

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[TAHbKA]

I have an impression the Russian fed is always 2 years behind in supporting the right pair. They were supporting Voloshzar/Trankov when it was obviously Stolbova/Klimov's time, including not sending StoKli to the Europeans after they won the GPF. Why? My speculation - they would had beaten Volosozhar/Trankov. Then supporting Stolbova/Klimov when it was quite obviously Tarasova/Morozov's time - Stolbova/Klimov were too injured by then but the RFSF had a favour to return them (imho Tarasova/Morozov were far better than Volosozhar/Trankov in their last season, but nooooo, the fed HAD to support their Olympic champions leaving the future potential Olympic champions in a state of mind of `we are just a number 2-3, so well, whatever'). And the cherry on the top - letting Kawaguti/Smirnov go and ending up with Astahova/Rogonov at the Olympics. All Kawaguti/Smirnov asked for is an assurance they will be sent to the major competitions (Euros/Worlds/Olympics) and were told to participate the Russian cup, should they win - nationals and do the usual process as all the other pairs do. They were not `all the other' pairs, they were much older, much more injured and by far more experienced - they didn't need to keep the whole season competing in order to provide at the right moment.
Astakhova/Rogonov ended up filling the holes.
Am almost 100% sure they will keep supporting Tarasova/Morozov for the whole season, even though it seems they are not going to hold till the next Olympics and imho the RFSF should invest in Boikova/Mishina/Pavluchenko/Whoever.

 

[hanca]

I have an impression the Russian fed is always 2 years behind in supporting the right pair. They were supporting Voloshzar/Trankov when it was obviously Stolbova/Klimov's time, including not sending StoKli to the Europeans after they won the GPF. Why? My speculation - they would had beaten Volosozhar/Trankov. Then supporting Stolbova/Klimov when it was quite obviously Tarasova/Morozov's time - Stolbova/Klimov were too injured by then but the RFSF had a favour to return them (imho Tarasova/Morozov were far better than Volosozhar/Trankov in their last season, but nooooo, the fed HAD to support their Olympic champions leaving the future potential Olympic champions in a state of mind of `we are just a number 2-3, so well, whatever'). And the cherry on the top - letting Kawaguti/Smirnov go and ending up with Astahova/Rogonov at the Olympics. All Kawaguti/Smirnov asked for is an assurance they will be sent to the major competitions (Euros/Worlds/Olympics) and were told to participate the Russian cup, should they win - nationals and do the usual process as all the other pairs do. They were not `all the other' pairs, they were much older, much more injured and by far more experienced - they didn't need to keep the whole season competing in order to provide at the right moment.
Astakhova/Rogonov ended up filling the holes.
Am almost 100% sure they will keep supporting Tarasova/Morozov for the whole season, even though it seems they are not going to hold till the next Olympics and imho the RFSF should invest in Boikova/Mishina/Pavluchenko/Whoever.

Yes, I had the same feeling in the past about the federation supporting the pair who has been longer on top, even if some newcomers were already clearly better and beating the top pair internationally. Supporting Stolbova/Klimov even though Tarasova/Morozov were beating them internationally (and that included handing out S/K better result at the nationals even when T/M were clearly better at that competition). I expect they will do the same to Boikova/Kozlovski, keeping T/M in number one position at home competitions even if B/K will be skating better at those competitions. B/K will need to earn it internationally first and then later the federation will follow, a year or two later.

 

[oleada]

So the Russian fed is going to ask the ISU to allow quads in the SP for ladies? Am I translating this right?

ФФККР предлагает разрешить четверные прыжки в короткой программе у женщин

Президент Федерации фигурного катания на коньках России Александр Горшков заявил, что федерация обратилась в Международный союз конькобежцев (ISU) с просьбой... РИА Новости Спорт, 12.11.2019

rsport.ria.ru

As a matter of equality between the sexes, I’m all for it.

 

[rfisher]

So the Russian fed is going to ask the ISU to allow quads in the SP for ladies? Am I translating this right?

ФФККР предлагает разрешить четверные прыжки в короткой программе у женщин

Президент Федерации фигурного катания на коньках России Александр Горшков заявил, что федерация обратилась в Международный союз конькобежцев (ISU) с просьбой... РИА Новости Спорт, 12.11.2019

rsport.ria.ru

As a matter of equality between the sexes, I’m all for it.

They already asked and are waiting for a ruling this summer. They want it in place before the Olympics. If a 3A is allowed there's no reason to not allow the quad

 

[NAOTMAA]

Yes, I had the same feeling in the past about the federation supporting the pair who has been longer on top, even if some newcomers were already clearly better and beating the top pair internationally. Supporting Stolbova/Klimov even though Tarasova/Morozov were beating them internationally (and that included handing out S/K better result at the nationals even when T/M were clearly better at that competition). I expect they will do the same to Boikova/Kozlovski, keeping T/M in number one position at home competitions even if B/K will be skating better at those competitions. B/K will need to earn it internationally first and then later the federation will follow, a year or two later.

But they don't have that time, Beijing is only two years away! If they do that it will be a mess and it could end up like 2016 worlds where the federation's hierarchy was all messed up and confused despite the season's competition results and they finished 4th-5th-6th. No medals!

I think no matter what happens the rest of this season the federation HAS TO keep an open mind in the pre-Olympic season, no hard #1. Even if T/M end up winning a medal at worlds they got to start aiding the other teams more. The past season and half T/M have been far too inconsistent. They can't wait until the Olympic season because by then it will be too late. It would be far worse then 2018 where T/M felt like a substitute for S/K even though they were the reigning world bronze medalists.

 

[alchemy void]

ФФККР призвала ISU изучить судейские решения по российским фигуристам

ФФККР призвала ISU рассмотреть непоследовательные решения судей по российским фигуристам

rsport.ria.ru

Apparently the Russian federation is petitioning the ISU and Lakernik regarding judging inconsistencies on the Grand Prix this season. The article specifically takes issue with Scherbakova's ! lutz calls at CoC.

Sorry, but there aren't enough eyeroll emojis in the world for this. How dare a technical panel hold a Tutberidze skater to the same strict standard as the rest of the field, instead of turning a blind eye like they did with Zagitova multiple times last season?

ETA: Here's a new TSL video about it as well.

 

[Tinami Amori]

ФФККР призвала ISU изучить судейские решения по российским фигуристам

ФФККР призвала ISU рассмотреть непоследовательные решения судей по российским фигуристам

rsport.ria.ru

Apparently the Russian federation is petitioning the ISU and Lakernik regarding judging inconsistencies on the Grand Prix this season. The article specifically takes issue with Scherbakova's ! lutz calls at CoC.

That article is incorrect and/or misquoted Lakernik. Another article incorrectly stated it is about Tuktamysheva's lutz at Skate America.

He made a clarification and it was stated in a other sources.

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"This is not about Shcherbakova's issues at Cup of China, or Tuktamysheva's lutz at Skate America.
It's two specific issues with Kostornaya and Zagitova at Cup of France".

In another source it was clarified (Zagitova: music deduction and -5 on a landed/no fall 3L3R combo, and 2 of Kostornya's jump issues).

 

[tony]

ФФККР призвала ISU изучить судейские решения по российским фигуристам

ФФККР призвала ISU рассмотреть непоследовательные решения судей по российским фигуристам

rsport.ria.ru

Apparently the Russian federation is petitioning the ISU and Lakernik regarding judging inconsistencies on the Grand Prix this season. The article specifically takes issue with Scherbakova's ! lutz calls at CoC.

Sorry, but there aren't enough eyeroll emojis in the world for this. How dare a technical panel hold a Tutberidze skater to the same strict standard as the rest of the field, instead of turning a blind eye like they did with Zagitova multiple times last season?

ETA: Here's a new TSL video about it as well.

Not a smart idea IMO. Now there's going to be a magnifying glass on everything. And you know someone, somewhere is going to make a compilation of all the jumps certain skaters got away with throughout the last few seasons.

In gymnastics, they are able to protest the scores now and sometimes (even more often than not, it seems) the base score actually goes down after review. You know these skating technical panels are going to be sure they get everything 100% right from now on-- well maybe not at Rostelecom this weekend, but moving forward.

To add to what @Tinami Amori posted as I was replying- it's easy to time Zagitova's program. She was over by at least one second, probably closer to two so there's no argument there.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Not a smart idea IMO. Now there's going to be a magnifying glass on everything. And you know someone, somewhere is going to make a compilation of all the jumps certain skaters got away with throughout the last few seasons.

The article A.V. listed is incorrect and has been corrected by Lakernik. see my post above.

 

[tony]

The article A.V. listed is incorrect and has been corrected by Lakernik. see my post above.

Yep, I was editing my post as I saw yours come through but I'll add my extra thought here- so they are mad about the one -5 Zagitova received for the 3+3 combo in the short in France (from the Japanese judge)?

Underrotated sign gets -1 to -2; the wrong edge 'e' sign gets -3 to -4 reduction in GOE. If the Japanese judge started Zagitova at 0 or +1 (one positive bullet point), then a -5 would be warranted. It didn't have a good take-off and landing, and it was not effortless throughout. The body position was not 'very good' from take-off to landing. There wasn't an unexpected or creative entry, and I wouldn't say the combo as a whole had very good height and length (note here that the bullet specifically says of all jumps in a combo- the loop was more straight up and down).

We all know how I feel about the throw-away 'element matches the music' bullet point-- unless it really is like Zagitova's 3F, for example, in Don Quixote. Even if the Japanese judge gave her credit for this one, she still could end up at a -5 under the rules as they are written.

What I think we are used to is top-level skaters (NOT limited to Russians) receiving unnecessarily high GOE/generous fulfillment of bullet points that really shouldn't be getting credit when compared to lower-ranked skaters that might have certain stand-out elements but won't get above a +1 or +2, and I think that's a major problem.

ETA- since we are on this specific jump, the Russian judge should absolutely have to explain how they came up with a +1 for this very element, seeing how a +1 should not be possible. What a ridiculous argument especially when the judge gave a positive score.

ETA2- The landing of the loop could also be considered 'weak' since there really was no run-out and that would be another -1 to -3.

Point is, the rules are there to be seen by everyone. Not smart to argue this instance when the technical panel already hands you the means to subtract -4 GOE minimum automatically, whether you as a judge agree or not. JMO of course.

 

[alchemy void]

I find it hard to believe the Russian fed would formally protest ONE judge's -5 for Zagitova's 3Lz+3Lo and -1.0 time deduction.

If they're protesting Kostornaia's 3A in the short program, I thought it was rotated enough in replay to get full credit, although opinions certainly varied here.

Something doesn't add up here. If every federation formally protested a borderline UR call or rogue -5 for their skaters, the ISU would be be receiving multiple complaints on a weekly basis.

I'm going to guess the Russian fed's original complaint did include Scherbakova, and maybe other skaters, but now they're trying to backpedal as much as possible, because the optics here....aren't so great.

 

[tony]

I find it really hard to believe the Russian federation would formally protest ONE judge's -5 for Zagitova's 3Lz+3Lo and -1.0 time deduction.

If they're protesting Kostornaia's 3A in the short program, I thought it was rotated enough in replay, although opinions certainly varied here.

Something doesn't add up here. If every federation formally protested a borderline UR call or rogue -5 for their skaters, the ISU would be be receiving multiple complaints on a weekly basis.

I'm going to guess the Russian fed's original complaint did include Scherbakova, and maybe other skaters, but now they're trying to backpedal as much as possible.

Especially when the -5 makes more sense than the +1 does.

I also find it suspicious if it is a rotation issue with Kostornaia, seeing how I think her first Axel should've been called < in the free skate. Maybe it has to do with the ! call on the Lutzes.

Still, I don't get it. It's just drawing more attention to these skaters and probably additional time making sure the technical panel gets all the calls correct versus being generous in borderline cases.