From Russia with Love [#34]: Autumn 2019

[love_skate2011]

Questions to be answered by CoR

Men:
who amongst Aliev and Samarin will podium and make the GPF, the ones who qualify will be politicked as russian no.1 man

Ladies:
Will Trusova finally break 75+ in SP ?
How far can Trusova go in FS score after SC ?
Can Med finally skate a clean SP and take silver ?

Pairs:
Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?
Will Stolbova / Novosleov debut with a bang ?
Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous inconsistency issues away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?

Ice Dance
its boring sorry....

 

[Vash01]

Questions to be answered by CoR

Men:
who amongst Aliev and Samarin will podium and make the GPF, the ones who qualify will be politicked as russian no.1 man
Neither has skated a strong LP, so I will flip a coin and pick

Samarin

Ladies:
Will Trusova finally break 75+ in SP ? Yes
How far can Trusova go in FS score after SC ? 250 (SC score 241 with one fall)
Can Med finally skate a clean SP and take silver ?
Yes


Pairs:
Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?

Improper (half) question.

Yes for struggle but number one will be B&K and not M&G

Will Stolbova / Novosleov debut with a bang ? No, more likely with falls

Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous inconsistency issues away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?

Improper question. B&K are consistent. No fluke. Never infamous for inconsistency as senior

Ice Dance
its boring sorry....

I don’t have a crystal ball but I will try. Answers in the body of your post.

 

[lily]

I don't think Lori Nichol does good work for everyone (I don't even like all of S/H's programs). I actually hate a lot of her choreo for those skaters who obviously don't inspire her. So there is no guarantee she would make anything great for Russian pairs. Anyway, I like Russian pairs the most because I love the Russian style, not North American. There have been plenty of well choreographed Russian pair programs...just look at S/K, K/S, A/R in recent times. Maybe not for T/M but I don't think that can all be the fault of the choreographer, when they've tried so many (and not all Russian) and nobody seems to know what to do with them.

Very interesting about Lori Nichol's choreo. I didn't follow her work so closely - to who did she, for instance, non-inspired choreo?

 

[hanca]

Yeah, but paying $5k for Candyman isn’t a great investment...

How do you know that they paid $5k for Candyman? Maybe the Candyman was a freebie?

 

[soogar]

Lori Nichol will not work with the Russian pairs, so it’s not an option. In an interview last year, it sounded like Trankov would have taken T/M to her for choreo if he could have.

I suppose she has her reasons, but she’s missing out on getting to work with some amazing talent.

Maybe this is part of her agreement with the Chinese federation.

 

[Vash01]

I don’t think Lori’s choreography will suddenly turn around a Russian pair the way she did with S&Z and other Chinese pairs. They had to be taught artistry/presentation from the beginning. The Russian style has been top notch since 1960s. I don’t think Lori has a magic wand for T&M. Neither does Marina but Marina has done great with pairs like G&G who had great technique but artistically they were vanilla in 1988. We just have to be patient. In T&M’s case I believe confidence (lack of it) is a bigger problem than choreography. May be they should plan on skating the same LP two years in a row (exception- Candyman)

 

[Tinami Amori]

Maybe this is part of her agreement with the Chinese federation.

I don't know where all these speculations come from, just because of Transkov's comments which are not "affirmative"... but rather his thinking "how it is".

Lori Nichol worked with Vasiliev and Matveev, and choreographed for Totmianina/Marinin...

Totmianina & Marinin 2005 Euros SP: Ave Maria

Their 2005 european championship SP

www.youtube.com

Totmianina & Marinin - 2005 European Champioships LP (Scheherazade )

Tatiana Totmianina & Maxim Marinin - 2005 European Champioships LP (Scheherazade )

www.youtube.com

 

[rfisher]

Is there any news about how Stolbova's training is going? I know we'll find out this coming weekend, but I'm dying of curiosity. And trying not to get my hopes up. But, have they improved the twist? Landing jumps consistently? Anything?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I don’t think Lori’s choreography will suddenly turn around a Russian pair the way she did with S&Z and other Chinese pairs. They had to be taught artistry/presentation from the beginning. The Russian style has been top notch since 1960s. I don’t think Lori has a magic wand for T&M. Neither does Marina but Marina has done great with pairs like G&G who had great technique but artistically they were vanilla in 1988. We just have to be patient. In T&M’s case I believe confidence (lack of it) is a bigger problem than choreography. May be they should plan on skating the same LP two years in a row (exception- Candyman)

I pretty much agree. With their results going nowhere, and the adorable B&K breathing down their necks, T&M realized they needed a change. And it was a huge one. Lori will not fix what ails them. I think Marina has the right idea. Once the elements are solid again, the programs will look much better. Their packaging is already good. They both look hot... they just don't act it (yet). This will take time, but I think we may see the best version yet of T&M in 2020.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Questions to be answered by CoR
Pairs:
Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?
Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous inconsistency issues away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?

Oh my god I just love you

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Pairs:
Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?
Will Stolbova / Novosleov debut with a bang ?
Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous inconsistency issues away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?

Are you Mirizoev pretending as a super fan of M/G ?, because that is closest I can explain this obsession that is putting too many people off from M/G. I am starting to dislike M/G thanks to your comments, and it has nothing to do them, just overhype from you.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Are you Mirizoev pretending as a super fan of M/G ?, because that is closest I can explain this obsession that is putting too many people off from M/G. I am starting to dislike M/G thanks to your comments, and it has nothing to do them, just overhype from you.

This is just a troll job, pretending to be a super-fan of a random pair to annoy people. Speaking of M&G, I find them very generic. Like Central Casting for an 90s Russian pair generic. But they are quiet capable technically, with some big elements. I am curious to see how they will develop.

 

[Mad for Skating]

How do you know that they paid $5k for Candyman? Maybe the Candyman was a freebie?

One can hope! Maybe it was intended to be an EX...?

Is there any news about how Stolbova's training is going? I know we'll find out this coming weekend, but I'm dying of curiosity. And trying not to get my hopes up. But, have they improved the twist? Landing jumps consistently? Anything?

I haven’t heard a thing! The Queen keeps many secrets! I’ll let you know if I hear anything, though.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I don’t think the Russian Fed is willing to pay Nichol’s $20k fee. Tchernyshev charges $5k and doesn’t require travel to Morth America. Sounds mostly like economic reasons.

Also, I agree that her work is very hit and miss. Paying $20k and possibly getting a dud is a big risk. Better to pay $5k for a probable dud.

Tchernyshev did brilliant work for K/S! Manfred Symphony was worth far more then $5k (or the $20k that Lori charges) if you ask me

I think when all is said and done it doesn't matter who choreographs the program if you don't have the right coach with you every day at practice. Just like team Mishin who spends god knows how much for choreography every year only to change and strip all when said choreographer leaves. The absolute final product is in a way the work of the coach and team and not the choreographer.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I was aware of what Trankov said last year about Lori Nichol, but I also swear I read an article sometime earlier this year with a quote from her in which she alludes to not working with Russians for reasons. Maybe I'm imagining that though.

My hypothesis on Candyman is that Mozer is a believer in wait-your-turn and wanted S/K to come out on top in 2018, so she sabotaged T/M with that fs. Seriously, it should have been obvious by July 2017 at the very latest that the program needed to go....which was plenty of time for them to have come up with something else.

 

[Vash01]

I was aware of what Trankov said last year about Lori Nichol, but I also swear I read an article sometime earlier this year with a quote from her in which she alludes to not working with Russians for reasons. Maybe I'm imagining that though.

My hypothesis on Candyman is that Mozer is a believer in wait-your-turn and wanted S/K to come out on top in 2018, so she sabotaged T/M with that fs. Seriously, it should have been obvious by July 2017 at the very latest that the program needed to go....which was plenty of time for them to have come up with something else.

I agree that Mozer held down T&M to keep S&K on top, but I don't think she waited till the Candyman season to do that. She may have done it a few seasons earlier (2015 or 2016 may be?- those were not bad programs, just not challenging enough for their talent). It is not like she deliberately hurt them but she ignored them while focusing on S&K. That's how I read it.

Their programs in 2017 were terrible, not showing their strength. By the fall of 2017 it was obvious that S&K were going nowhere, hampered by injuries, and later Ksenia being barred from the 2018 Olympics.

I had a feeling that T&M were committed to their Candyman program, though I don't know why. In one interview Zhenya said that they wanted to improve their connection with the audience.

I wanted them to leave Mozer long before the 2018 season because I felt their talent was being wasted. I wanted them to go to Moskvina, because she could have worked wonders with them.

 

[Vash01]

Are you Mirizoev pretending as a super fan of M/G ?, because that is closest I can explain this obsession that is putting too many people off from M/G. I am starting to dislike M/G thanks to your comments, and it has nothing to do them, just overhype from you.

I have to try hard to not have negative feelings toward M&G because of this ridiculous hype (by just one person or are there more?). I am happy that they are skating well, but they have a long way to go to get to the level of T&M, or even B&K.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I was aware of what Trankov said last year about Lori Nichol, but I also swear I read an article sometime earlier this year with a quote from her in which she alludes to not working with Russians for reasons. Maybe I'm imagining that though.

My hypothesis on Candyman is that Mozer is a believer in wait-your-turn and wanted S/K to come out on top in 2018, so she sabotaged T/M with that fs. Seriously, it should have been obvious by July 2017 at the very latest that the program needed to go....which was plenty of time for them to have come up with something else.

I don't think she she tried to hold T/M down or sabotage them. I think despite all their talents they never inspired her as a coach and that it. Mozer seem to change her emotional allegiances from S/K (once they retired) to Z/E and skipped over T/M despite T/M becoming Russian #1 and not Z/E. She just didn't appear invested in T/M the same way she was in V/T, S/K or Z/E. The energy (despite the emotional attachment Tatiana appears to have with her) just wasn't there with T/M and it showed in the programs

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Speaking of Tchernyshev, I hope rumors about his wife's health are just that.

 

[Amy L]

Speaking of Tchernyshev, I hope rumors about his wife's health are just that.

Unfortunately, it does not seem like rumors. All the Russian press, from tabloids to more legit places are saying that she has inoperable brain cancer.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I don't think she she tried to hold T/M down or sabotage them. I think despite all their talents they never inspired her as a coach and that it. Mozer seem to change her emotional allegiances from S/K (once they retired) to Z/E and skipped over T/M despite T/M becoming Russian #1 and not Z/E. She just didn't appear invested in T/M the same way she was in V/T, S/K or Z/E. The energy (despite the emotional attachment Tatiana appears to have with her) just wasn't there with T/M and it showed in the programs

I think you are 100% correct, Mozer just wasn't into them. I am really not sure why she was interested Z&E. Maybe a different challenge, maybe some superficial similarities to S&K. T&M were just too vanilla for Mozer. Which is too bad, because I think there was (and maybe still is) another level to their skating.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Unfortunately, it does not seem like rumors. All the Russian press, from tabloids to more legit places are saying that she has inoperable brain cancer.

I hope it's one of those things were the media are making things up or exaggerating at least. Ugh.

 

[Amy L]

Mozer saw the potential in Natalia and imported her from Estonia. She was also present when Natalia had a bad fall and got a head injury (which I think was soon after she arrived in Moscow??), so Mozer has always been maternal/protective with her.

Speaking of Natalia, from her instagram, she's been back and forth between Los Angles and Tallinn since this summer. Why has she been spending so much time there? Is it skating related, or is it because her fiance is a film director, and he has a job there now?

 

[aka_gerbil]

Maybe it was just lack of interest/inspiration on Mozer's part, which is really sad. Most coaches would be thrilled to have the opportunity to work with the kind of talent T/M have. It's also sad, if that's the case, that Evgenia seems so attached to her if she's not particularly interested in them. Which, thinking about it, Mozer said after the Olympics they were uninteresting to her. T/M deserve better. Marina does seem interested, but I also worry that it's been so long since she's had a world/olympic medal caliber pairs team and her camp is set up for dance.

 

[skatfan]

Lori Nichol will not work with the Russian pairs, so it’s not an option. In an interview last year, it sounded like Trankov would have taken T/M to her for choreo if he could have.

I suppose she has her reasons, but she’s missing out on getting to work with some amazing talent.

I’m guessing her contract with the Chinese Federation precludes her form working for Russian pairs. They are paying her a lot of money. Does she do choreography for any other pairs besides the Chinese?

 

[starrynight]

A good example is Weaver/Poje’s Spartacus program by Lori Nichol - they would have paid a lot of money for that choreography and the program just didn’t even work and they had to abandon the program.

Choreography can be so hit and miss. A good example is Illinykh/Katsalapov. How did Morozov go from Ghost to the masterpiece that was I/K’s Swan Lake?

 

[Vash01]

I don't think she she tried to hold T/M down or sabotage them. I think despite all their talents they never inspired her as a coach and that it. Mozer seem to change her emotional allegiances from S/K (once they retired) to Z/E and skipped over T/M despite T/M becoming Russian #1 and not Z/E. She just didn't appear invested in T/M the same way she was in V/T, S/K or Z/E. The energy (despite the emotional attachment Tatiana appears to have with her) just wasn't there with T/M and it showed in the programs

It is the coach's job to take interest in whoever she is coaching. You can't blame T&M for Mozer's lack of interest in them. It is not like they were lazy, unwilling to work, or devoid of talent. Why should a skater "inspire" a coach? Moskvina worked with skaters who did not have natural talent but made them medal winners - e.g. Bechke and Petrov. She coached 'lazy' skaters too. She took on skaters that went nowhere because they just didn't have the talent.

I am surprised that despite Mozer's indifference, Zhenya seemed to depend on her a lot for support.

 

[zebraswan]

None of us are there in training with these skaters and coaches every day...you only get the most superficial glimpses of their relationships at competitions. They've worked together for years, you see maybe .001% of everything. So I am sure there is more complexity to their relationships that nobody here would be privy to. Conspiracy theories about a coach sabotaging her own skaters are just But if Nina honestly feels like T/M don't inspire her, then it is what it is and it's best for them to know it and move on. Why should they inspire her? Because you need to have some emotional investment in your students in order for the relationship to be productive. Otherwise you truly are just running a factory. If she feels like her time is best spent elsewhere, then they shouldn't be forced to work together. And that goes both ways.

 

[clairecloutier]

I’m guessing her contract with the Chinese Federation precludes her form working for Russian pairs. They are paying her a lot of money. Does she do choreography for any other pairs besides the Chinese?

No, not to my knowledge. Lori has not choreographed for any other senior pairs skaters, that I’m aware of, since at least 2015.

 

[Jeschke]

Leonova not listed for 4th Russian Cup.
Unless she makes no surprise appearance at GP stage, that means no nationals for her.
13 championships in a row.
End of an era!

Kanysheva not listed either, so same for her
She looked so good at test skates.