Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

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How does everyone feel about Meghan’s clip from the ITV documentary? I have mixed feelings. First, I do feel empathy for her. She’s had quite a year and a half and it certainly has had enormous challenges.

I think it will play well to the US audience. I feel that by showing emotion and saying despite seeming to “have it all” there can be struggle and sadness will allow some who struggle to find their own voice and courage to say “yeah, I am not okay right now. I need to talk to someone and share.”

However, having travelled to the U.K., I am not so sure this will go over well. The class structure is rigid, especially at the very top. To me, there seems to be an unwritten rule that if you are placed there (for you need to be born or married in) you better not try to garner much sympathy from those who have no chance to ever have that security. In such a privileged position, speaking about generalities such as the importance of mental health is appreciated but highlight other people, not yourself. Maybe some Brits can correct me if I’m wrong with that cultural assumption.

I also worry that by talking about their personal struggles while highlighting their work in South Africa will seem (unfairly, I think) to show them as disconnected from the struggles that the country and people are facing. I think it is surely possible to do both do their jobs well and talk about their personal lives, but when you only have an hour or so in a documentary, they surely must know the highlight reel will be solely about them and not their causes. The two clips widely released (Harry, Meghan) are only about their personal difficulties. That’s too bad as I think the tour was well done.
 
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ribbon said:
How does everyone feel about Meghan’s clip from the ITV documentary? I have mixed feelings. First, I do feel empathy for her. She’s had quite a year and a half and it certainly has had enormous challenges.

I think it will play well to the US audience. I feel that by showing emotion and saying despite seeming to “have it all” there can be struggle and sadness will allow some who struggle to find their own voice and courage to say “yeah, I am not okay right now. I need to talk to someone and share.”

However, having travelled to the U.K., I am not so sure this will go over well. The class structure is rigid, especially at the very top. To me, there seems to be an unwritten rule that if you are placed there (for you need to be born or married in) you better not try to garner much sympathy for those who have no chance to ever have that security. In such a privileged position, speaking about generalities such as the importance of mental health is appreciated but highlight other people, not yourself. Maybe some Brits can correct me if I’m wrong with that cultural assumption.
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I agree the UK class system is still live and kicking but I think that the impact of it on what people think and feel about others because of it is sometimes overstated on FSU in general.

On the whole I think most ordinary people regardless of their class can have sympathy for another struggling, regardless of their class. I think the issue is that the press deliver social commentary on these issues and that can skew things.

I think that some sections of the press will spin the interviews exactly as you've indicated above and their comments sections will quickly descend into abuse and unpleasantness. Sections of social media (and media in general) who have issues with the royal family and/or H/M specifically will do the same.

I think most people on the street wish no one ill will regardless of their class.

I certainly don't know anyone who subscribes to the view put forward earlier (by a non Brit afaik) that Kate couldn't possibly ever have struggled with anything because she's married into the royal family! Although I'm sure they exist here as they do the world over.
 
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canbelto said:
We get it. Meghan's not white so you hate her.
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I don’t know what @AxelAnnie motivations are, but as far as competition, first, the monarchy is not a competitive sport, and second, if it was, William and Kate have the fix in because William is the one in line for the throne. The system in which Harry and Meghan are working is designed to support the Monarch. Right now that is Queen Elizabeth. Eventually it will be Charles and then William. Harry and Meghan will absolutely have their own causes they want to pursue and support, but their main role is and will always be supporting whoever is the Monarch. They are not in competition against William and Kate and I am pretty sure they know that.

In fact, I think part of the struggle Harry and Meghan have had, is that many of their fans see them as in competition, and many of William and Kate’s fan see them as in competition. So instead celebrating everything they each do as part of a cooperative plan to reach shared goals, we get sniping comments comparing Kate and Meghan’s wardrobes. Harry and Meghan will never come out on top, nor, I am sure, do they want to. The endless comparisons are pointless. This is not a competition.
 
canbelto said:
We get it. Meghan's not white so you hate her.
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That is such an ignorant comment I can't believe you live in this century.

1. I don't hate Meghan.
2. She is not black, she is bi-racial
3. I could not care less what color she is.

This may be a shock to you, but people can disagree with actions/thoughts/beliefs of others without either hating them, or discounting them because of their race, religion or whatever.

Yep - MLK was right, but you did not listen. It is the same mentality that if you disagreed with something Obama said you were a racist. That is YOUR filter, not mine. It is YOUR way to discount someone, rather than actually responding intelligently to what they said.

Someone said that now M&H will need to come up with something to beat K&W trip to Pakistan. It is not and should never be a competition. And even if it were, M&H will never win. Nothing to do with anything but birth order. (Which, btw, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the color of anyone's skin.)

Get a life, and grow up.
 
AxelAnnie said:
That is such an ignorant comment I can't believe you live in this century.

1. I don't hate Meghan.
2. She is not black, she is bi-racial
3. I could not care less what color she is.

This may be a shock to you, but people can disagree with actions/thoughts/beliefs of others without either hating them, or discounting them because of their race, religion or whatever.

Yep - MLK was right, but you did not listen. It is the same mentality that if you disagreed with something Obama said you were a racist. That is YOUR filter, not mine. It is YOUR way to discount someone, rather than actually responding intelligently to what they said.

Someone said that now M&H will need to come up with something to beat K&W trip to Pakistan. It is not and should never be a competition. And even if it were, M&H will never win. Nothing to do with anything but birth order. (Which, btw, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the color of anyone's skin.)

Get a life, and grow up.
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Whatever. I've followed you for many years on FSU and you are consistently a proud card carrying racist. You claim you aren't racist but you think any POC who gets shot by the police deserves it. You think all victims of sexual abuse "deserve it." You've made it clear your dislike of Meghan is due to her being genetically inferior to Kate ... because of race. You even think the Queen should snatch Archie away from Meghan and kick him in Buckingham Palace.
 
canbelto said:
Whatever. I've followed you for many years on FSU and you are consistently a proud card carrying racist. You claim you aren't racist but you think any POC who gets shot by the police deserves it. You think all victims of sexual abuse "deserve it." You've made it clear your dislike of Meghan is due to her being genetically inferior to Kate ... because of race. You even think the Queen should snatch Archie away from Meghan and kick him in Buckingham Palace.
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Can you give it a rest? This is not the first time I’ve pulled you up on this.
 
www.google.ca

Prince Harry And Meghan Markle To Take A 6-Week Break For ‘Family Time,’ Will Spend Thanksgiving In U.S.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are planning to take a break next month in order to spend some time together as a family. The Sunday Times is reporting that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will continue their current schedule of royal duties for a few more weeks before taking a breather for six...
www.google.ca www.google.ca

I am so glad they are going to do this. They both seem like they have a lot of stuff to work through and doing it in the public eye is not healthy or productive. I wonder if Meghan is also experiencing some post partum depression? It would not be the least bit surprising. For Harry to still be feeling so raw about his mother’s death is sad. I know you don’t get over that sort of thing, but to still be in a fairly early stage of grief at this time seems to me to be a signal that professional help is needed.

I think it can be very difficult for someone like Meghan, who has always be a go go personality type to realize that stepping back and being a mom is enough right now. Working behind the scenes during her mat leave, ending that leave with the launch of the clothing line and an international tour was, in retrospect, not great planning.

They should retreat until they feel well and truly healed. Heck, just take Archie’s first year off. The world will survive without them. Family and health are most important.
 
made_in_canada said:
A very short one by non-American standards. I wouldn’t be surprised if Meghan and Harry made commitments before Archie was born and then after realized it was too much. Good for them for taking care of themselves.
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I think it is very common for first time parents to think that they can just carry on as they did before. Reality can catch up pretty quick, especially for an older mom. I found being pregnant at 35 exponentially more difficult than at 30. We always thought we would have another one, but there was no way I was doing that again at 37. I know they have lots and lots of money and help so it is not the same thing, but hormones don’t care about your annual income. Some of the more questionable decisions of the last 6 months might be the result of exhaustion and lack of clear thinking. If that is the case it totally sucks that those decisions were so public. As the expressions goes, live and learn. Sounds like maybe a step back is what is needed.
 
I watched the documentary online. Meghan seems very sweet and caring, well spoken, but naive. The reason the US tabloids weren’t so bad to her was because “Suits” wasn’t going to make tabloids big money. As a royal, there will be aggressive paparazzi here too. I was surprised she didn’t acknowledge that after seeing all the baby shower hoopla in NYC where there were photographers even waiting for snaps of delivery trucks.

Both her and Harry seem to truly enjoy their meaningful work. I feel terrible that it is overshadowed by the social media outrage over them (And to a lesser degree, the press).

However, again, the naïvete! Harry hesitating and then not denying the “rift” question with his brother will be blown up out of proportion and will dominate the conversation. Surely, he must know that? We will now all be guaranteed to have massive interest once again in the body language at Christmas. If they want that stuff to stop, Candid Harry made a big error there. The press, both mainstream and tabloid, were just fed more addictive candy by that.

The six week break is a good idea, as Meghan and Harry can focus on their son and see her mom, and hopefully feel refreshed. Their work in Africa was really impressive, highlighting great causes.

It is a sad situation as I don’t know how Meghan can ever manage the racism found in certain circles, as it is completely unfair to ask them to just ignore it. But, if anyone has a solution to the bad side of social media, they will deserve a Nobel.
 
ribbon said:
I was surprised she didn’t acknowledge that after seeing all the baby shower hoopla in NYC where there were photographers even waiting for snaps of delivery trucks.
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According to a reporter from the royal press Corp, the Sussex’s office gave the press detailed information about exactly when and where Meghan would be so that photos could be taken as she came and went from activities. Just another example of the mixed up signals being sent out. Sometimes it takes a full crash before people realize that they need to make changes and listen to and/or get good advice. Like you said, hopefully some time with Meghan’s mom will help them sort things out.
 
I think the theory posted earlier in this thread has more and more merit to it — Meghan thought she was used to handling the press, and she assumed it would be the same in the UK as Hollywood. Careful and strategic leaks to sympathetic and chosen reporters, leading to flattering photos and generally positive fluff pieces in glossy magazines. Her comment in the documentary is telling: “I never thought it would be easy, but I thought it would be fair.” Naive, maybe. But we all like to think that the people we encounter in life will deal fairly with us. Add to that that she has been isolated in Britain without her mom or friends, gone through several major life changes in a very short time period, and is still newly post-partum, a particularly vulnerable and emotional/hormonal time. And her husband is stoking the fires with his own series of bad choices, outbursts, and feuds. He has obviously driven off William and Kate, who otherwise may have been a really great source of support for Meghan (Kate is one of the few women in the world who can understand some of what Meghan is going through). I feel for her. She’s made some mistakes, absolutely, and some unforced errors, but she also is clearly miserable and struggling and not getting the support she needs. You couldn’t pay me enough money to be her.
 
I also watched the documentary and also think Meghan thought she could handle the press as she was use to how Hollywood did it as previously stated by others in this thread - though also some comments that made me go 'huh'. She mentioned that she had been told by her British friends that the 'British tabloids would destroy her life' and that she naively brushed it off with comments about how she was 'American and we don't have that there' - huh? I lived in New York for 22 years and plenty of times I saw headlines in the tabloids trashing celebrities and trying to dig up dirt. I'm sure it was the same in Hollywood. And glossy magazines and magazine type programs did just the same.

That being said it was clear she wasn't expecting the deep level of scrutiny that has happened - maybe if she had had a longer engagement or longer time dating she would have been more aware. Both of Harry's previous serious relationships had ended mainly because the ladies in question had decided they couldn't deal with the constant press intrusion in their life. I think that is what her British friends were trying to get across to her but when you are in love you don't always listen to those voices. Is that naivety or did she think she could change things - I'm not sure? However I did think her interview in the program was very staged and carefully edited - what was with the whispering on occasion?

As to Harry and his comments re a 'rift' with William I saw the slight delay and laugh as more of a 'yeah here's that question' rather than confirming the rift. Yes he said that he and William don't see each other as much and that they are on different paths. Yes he said they have good days and bad days - but who doesn't have days when they are infuriated with their siblings. But he also said - and many of the headlines this morning leave this out - that he would always be there for William as he knows William will be there for him and that he (Harry) loves him (William) dearly. A fairly typical sibling relationship to be honest.

And they are on different paths - William is likely to be King so he has to be more diplomatic and has to wade through political minefields on occasion. Harry is now way down the line of succession so can be different in his approach to how he does things and his tours - the 2 tours that have just occurred reflect that and both of them along with their wives had remarkably successful tours. But I do wonder if Harry and Meghan can carry on with royal tours etc. if Meghan's comments about existing not living truly reflect their states of mind. Taking time off from mid November and spending some quality time with Meghan's Mom for Thanksgiving and having a quiet end to the year may give them time to sit and think about what they really want to do.
 
ribbon said:
I watched the documentary online. Meghan seems very sweet and caring, well spoken, but naive. The reason the US tabloids weren’t so bad to her was because “Suits” wasn’t going to make tabloids big money. As a royal, there will be aggressive paparazzi here too. I was surprised she didn’t acknowledge that after seeing all the baby shower hoopla in NYC where there were photographers even waiting for snaps of delivery trucks.
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mag said:
According to a reporter from the royal press Corp, the Sussex’s office gave the press detailed information about exactly when and where Meghan would be so that photos could be taken as she came and went from activities. Just another example of the mixed up signals being sent out. Sometimes it takes a full crash before people realize that they need to make changes and listen to and/or get good advice.
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MLIS said:
I think the theory posted earlier in this thread has more and more merit to it — Meghan thought she was used to handling the press, and she assumed it would be the same in the UK as Hollywood. Careful and strategic leaks to sympathetic and chosen reporters, leading to flattering photos and generally positive fluff pieces in glossy magazines. Her comment in the documentary is telling: “I never thought it would be easy, but I thought it would be fair.”
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I agree with all of this. The press have been deeply unfair to them, but equally, their handling of the press hasn't helped at all. And it's happening again with the 6 week break announcement - you can see the "why do you need a break" criticism already emerging, even in this thread, whereas if they'd not made any announcement but just stepped out of the limelight quietly in the way that Kate frequently did when her kids were smaller, any backlash would have been much more contained.
 
I think it might be good for Meghan to spend some time in the U.S. I think part of the issue is that in England she doesn't have the support system she needs. Doria can't just move to England, and in the U.S. the tabloids really are less intrusive.

As for William and Harry they'll work it out. Lots of siblings go through rough patches.
 
morqet said:
I agree with all of this. The press have been deeply unfair to them, but equally, their handling of the press hasn't helped at all. And it's happening again with the 6 week break announcement - you can see the "why do you need a break" criticism already emerging, even in this thread, whereas if they'd not made any announcement but just stepped out of the limelight quietly in the way that Kate frequently did when her kids were smaller, any backlash would have been much more contained.
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To be fair to them, I don't think they formally announced they were taking a six week break, what I've read is that it was being reported and then a palace source "confirmed" it. So, sure, someone leaked it and who knows who or on what authority, but they didn't announce it. And I think they were damned if they did and damned it they didn't on this one -- people absolutely would have noticed if they just quietly disappeared, especially both of them, and then there would be a frenzy about lazing about on the taxpayer's dime and "what are they hiding" and the paparazzi trying to find them in California and all the rest of it. I mean, I'm in Canada, I took a full year of maternity leave when my daughter was born, and I think this rush back to work within weeks that is expected of new mothers is inhumane. They both need a break, they both need help, and I hope they are able to take the time and space to find it.
 
MLIS said:
To be fair to them, I don't think they formally announced they were taking a six week break, what I've read is that it was being reported and then a palace source "confirmed" it. So, sure, someone leaked it and who knows who or on what authority, but they didn't announce it. And I think they were damned if they did and damned it they didn't on this one -- people absolutely would have noticed if they just quietly disappeared, especially both of them, and then there would be a frenzy about lazing about on the taxpayer's dime and "what are they hiding" and the paparazzi trying to find them in California and all the rest of it. I mean, I'm in Canada, I took a full year of maternity leave when my daughter was born, and I think this rush back to work within weeks that is expected of new mothers is inhumane. They both need a break, they both need help, and I hope they are able to take the time and space to find it.
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Here in the UK you are allowed by law to take up to a year of maternity leave though maternity pay may differ for each person depending on how long they have worked for the employee etc. Many mothers here in the UK I have known have taken between 6 months to the full year off after the birth of their child depending on their financial situation. I know after working in the US that many mothers there get little to no maternity leave and head back to work way sooner than I think is beneficial to their health and wellbeing but if your financial wellbeing needs you to do that I can see why they do it.

I believe Kate took 6 months with each of hers - Meghan took barely 5 months and seemed to be doing a lot of behind the scenes work on Vogue and her charities during that time instead of truly relaxing and enjoying the first year of Archie's life. In retrospect I think she should have taken longer and not headed out to a major tour like they did. Hopefully taking time in November and December can help them recharge and figure out what they want to do next.
 
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Harry says that even the flashing of camera lights triggers him to his mother's death. I really hope he's getting some serious therapy and grief counseling because that does not sound healthy, and the stress can;t be healthy for Meghan either. Sounds like both of them need some time off to recharge and re-group.

AND while I know it's a personal family matter I can't help but think Harry can do worse than spend some time with William repairing whatever needs to be repaired, and Meghan can maybe even reach out to Thomas Markle. I know families well enough to know that unless there's some egregious abuse, most relationships can be repaired and even having a distant but cordial relationship is often less emotional burden than being completely estranged.
 
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I think the above nails it on the head. Meghan was totally out of her depth. Hollywood she knew her way around. She was a minor starlet. BRF was totally knew with a right and wrong way to do things. Leaking to the press sounded good....but she was not a starlet but a major huge big deal. New rules needed to apply. Hopefully she and Harry can not only step back but reassess their personal priorities.

I am confused by her "existing not living". What is it she wants?
She sure looks like she is enjoying the perks. The life she chose has restrictions and rules, but great perks..........and tiaras!
 
Lorac said:
I believe Kate took 6 months with each of hers - Meghan took barely 5 months and seemed to be doing a lot of behind the scenes work on Vogue and her charities during that time instead of truly relaxing and enjoying the first year of Archie's life. In retrospect I think she should have taken longer and not headed out to a major tour like they did. Hopefully taking time in November and December can help them recharge and figure out what they want to do next.
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Kate took only five weeks off before having an official engagement after George's birth, but her engagements were quite limited. She took four months after Charlotte was born and just a bit over six months with Louis. When she was off with the latter two babies, she was off, only making appearances at big family oriented events (Trooping the Colour, Weddings and such). Meghan worked on the Vogue issue (a task she solicited for herself), worked on the capsule collection, etc...and perhaps she knows now that not taking a real leave was a mistake both for her, her marriage and her baby. But, of course, it was spun in the press as an example of her being so much more hard working than Kate.

canbelto said:
Harry says that even the flashing of camera lights triggers him to his mother's death. I really hope he's getting some serious therapy and grief counseling because that does not sound healthy, and the stress can;t be healthy for Meghan either.
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It's called "complicated grief" and it sounds like perhaps C-PTSD. It requires professional help. Now. Not later. And a documentary crew is not made up of mental health professionals. I sincerely hope that the six week break is not merely to vacation with Doria or whatever. It needs to be time for Harry to get some serious help.

AxelAnnie said:
I think the above nails it on the head. Meghan was totally out of her depth. Hollywood she knew her way around. She was a minor starlet. BRF was totally knew with a right and wrong way to do things. Leaking to the press sounded good....but she was not a starlet but a major huge big deal. New rules needed to apply. Hopefully she and Harry can not only step back but reassess their personal priorities.

I am confused by her "existing not living". What is it she wants?
She sure looks like she is enjoying the perks. The life she chose has restrictions and rules, but great perks..........and tiaras!
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Meghan was lauded over and over and over and then lauded some more for having a career before marrying into the royal family. It made her better than Kate, better than Diana and better than any member ever in some corners of the press and social media. Except that Diana was 19 and most 19 year olds don't have careers. And Kate was saddled with the stigma and problems of being the girlfriend of a future king at the time that most people are establishing careers. Her job at Jigsaw ended not because she was not a good employee but because they concluded that the disruptions caused by her presence were not good for the company. So here was Meghan, the heroine with the career. She gave it up for this. I'm not sure she understood what this would be like. And it was a career that was demanding in time and energy. Television shows are long and consuming working hours. Plus she was pursuing other goals with her website, a clothing line, etc... Suddenly, she's basically got a part time job and one that she didn't really choose. She can't have side projects that profit. She can't have her website and her social media presence has to be carefully curated. She lost all of her professional pursuits in one fell swoop. She seems like an energetic person who prefers to be working and pursuing her own goals over other things (see the end of her first marriage--distance likely took a toll, so she chose the career). I know women like that. I know a woman who decided to quit work as a teacher after her first child was born. She had him in April, so her maternity leave extended into summer. She was losing her mind by the time the new school year started and wanted to be back at work. Things went awry with a new teacher at the school and by October she was happily back at work. It was the better place for her and she said herself, she was a better mother if she was able to pursue her own goals, too. She ended up being a principal later and had three more kids, too. There is nothing wrong with that. But having that personality is not a good fit for being in a royal family as a full time working royal.

I said at the beginning, before I had formed any opinion about Meghan personally as I know you all think that since I don't think she's a saint above criticism that I hate her, that there were a lot of red flags here. It was a relatively short relationship. It was long distance until the engagement. I've seen long distance relationships go badly when it was suddenly not long distance. A friend got engaged to her long distance boyfriend and he moved to where she was. The whole relationship had been based on holidays basically. They each took a bit of time off and one flew to the other and it was just couple time, nothing else. When he moved here, they were suddenly together for the daily grind of life, going to work, doing the laundry, etc...and it didn't work at all. She had to give up career and country for him. They grew up in different classes and different cultures and have probably discovered that there's a lot they just don't understand about each other. In a time span of less than two years, Meghan quit her job, gave up all of her personal ambitions, gave up her country, moved across the world, got married, moved again, and had a baby. All while adjusting to life in a fish bowl and a new job that she didn't choose for herself and apparently doesn't much like. Then her husband began having a mental breakdown (likely related to getting married, massive changes in his daily life and being a new parent). And there are problems. Blaming the press for all of those problems is not productive. They need help to address those things.
 
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