2019 Japan Open, October 5 + Carnival on Ice gala

[Wyliefan]

Well hallelujah, Satoko beat almost everyone else on PCS. Maybe there's hope.

 

[Ka3sha]

Official results/protocols: https://www.jsfresults.com/InterNational/2019-2020/japanopen/index.htm

Ladies PCS are a joke

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Interesting results.

Fascinating stuff that there was only 6 points difference between Trusova and Zagitova where Trusova landed 4 quads and Zagitova zero.

A fall on one of those quads and Zagitova would have beaten a 3 quad program. Looking at the protocol, you can see that GOE and PCS made the difference.

If one was to combine a short program with the free skate, I suspect the end result may have even been much closer.

I wonder if this focus on GOE and PCS will last, or if the judging will go down the usual predictable route of inflating PCS to match TES?

I'm reminded of when Zagitova moved up to the senior level. It only took one or two competitions for her to completely overtake Medvedeva in PCS as well.

 

[starrynight]

I'm reminded of when Zagitova moved up to the senior level. It only took one or two competitions for her to completely overtake Medvedeva in PCS as well.

Yes it will be interesting to watch. The only thing I do wonder is whether (as there is another flock of quad girls rising through junior ranks as we speak - and will likely continue to be) there will be an ongoing enthusiasm to give huge PCS to each wave as they go senior, thereby throwing out the ones before them. Maybe my imagination is running away from me, but who knows, there could be some hidden checks and balances with PCS this season. Because the judges don't need to inflate them high for the quad girls to win. They can do that on TES alone.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Yes it will be interesting to watch. The only thing I do wonder is whether (as there is another flock of quad girls rising through junior ranks as we speak - and will likely continue to be) there will be an ongoing enthusiasm to give huge PCS to each wave as they go senior, thereby throwing out the ones before them. Maybe my imagination is running away from me, but who knows, there could be some hidden checks and balances with PCS this season. Because the judges don't need to inflate them high for the quad girls to win. They can do that on TES alone.

Much as I love to see the technical level of the sport increased, it really doesn't leave much time to give an actual performance. As an early poster wrote, when does Trusova get time to breathe?

It's going to be a bit of a race to 2022. The last one to hit puberty wins.

 

[rfisher]

I know I'm counter to all the fans who favor the artistic side of skating, but IMHO, PCS should be the determining factor for a win only if the TES are equal. It should not be used to counter a skater who has lower TES. Now, GOE on elements is different and can make the difference. Trusova is very young and very small. She gets tired and as the program progresses (as anyone would including much bigger men), her elements get sloppier and she loses GOE points. It's a trade off she and her coaching team make for the multiple quads. That being said, her team is very savvy about winning competitions. If they feel the risk vs benefit isn't there, they'll adjust accordingly. She's still experimenting which is what kids her age do. They also think they're invincible. It's human nature for fans to want their favorites to win even if they simply don't have the equivalent technical arsenal. It is an athletic sport. It is the very rare skater who can excel at the athletic side of skating and the artistic. Most are one or the other. A very small handful find a good balance between the two, but by and large the technical skater will simply earn more points and win. To me, the exhibition or shows is where you go to watch the artistic side of skating, not the competitions.

 

[muffinplus]

Ladies PCS are a joke

Which ones..

 

[oleada]

I think there’s room for both artistic skaters and athletic skaters in the sport. I can love Satoko’s artistry and cheer Trusova on as she lands more quads and outscores most men not named Nathan Chen. I think it’s fair for skaters to win on technical; it’s a sport after all. The very best skaters have both but that’s so rare.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Watching Trusova's performance, the one thing I miss from the 6.0 era was when a skater really sold a technical element. Meaning, this is difficult, and I'm really excited to have made it happen.

While her skating was a bit old school and slightly campy, I really enjoyed USA's Patricia Mansfield for this very reason.

Patricia Mansfield - 1995 U.S. Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program

Providence, Rhode Island, USA - 1995 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Patricia Mansfield moved up from 6th to 5th Place ove...

www.youtube.com

 

[Finsta]

This should be encouraging for other skaters to see that a program with no quads was so close to a program with 4. She certainly is not unbeatable.

 

[jenny12]

While I still can’t get into it as much as her program last year, I did think Rika did a better job of performing her new LP. Hopefully with more time she’ll feel more comfortable. Satoko continues to be outrageously beautiful.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This should be encouraging for other skaters to see that a program with no quads was so close to a program with 4. She certainly is not unbeatable.

Not unbeatable. But exciting and a bit terrifying, knowing that everyone will have to bring their A Games.

Sometimes that can have a twofold effect. Either the skaters all do great (like at last year's NHK Trophy) or it's a train wreck.

 

[mollymgr]

I'm just excited that these ladies are pushing the technical aspect of the sport. Skating needs that kind of excitement to move forward. All sports are about breaking barriers and setting new highs. Just a few years ago, it was a huge deal for the men to land a quad let alone multiple quads in one program and now it is very commonplace. People had bootleg comp videos to prove that one had been landed, like a sighting of the Yeti. Look how far we have come since then.

 

[kittyjake5]

Shoma's FS watch while it lasts. A work in progress but very nice.

Shoma Uno. Japan Open 2019 FS

www.youtube.com

 

[jlai]

I know I'm counter to all the fans who favor the artistic side of skating, but IMHO, PCS should be the determining factor for a win only if the TES are equal. It should not be used to counter a skater who has lower TES. Now, GOE on elements is different and can make the difference. Trusova is very young and very small. She gets tired and as the program progresses (as anyone would including much bigger men), her elements get sloppier and she loses GOE points. It's a trade off she and her coaching team make for the multiple quads. That being said, her team is very savvy about winning competitions. If they feel the risk vs benefit isn't there, they'll adjust accordingly. She's still experimenting which is what kids her age do. They also think they're invincible. It's human nature for fans to want their favorites to win even if they simply don't have the equivalent technical arsenal. It is an athletic sport. It is the very rare skater who can excel at the athletic side of skating and the artistic. Most are one or the other. A very small handful find a good balance between the two, but by and large the technical skater will simply earn more points and win. To me, the exhibition or shows is where you go to watch the artistic side of skating, not the competitions.

You are conflating artistry with PCs. Half of PCs is technical. It is just not getting enough points.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Ladies now starting now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioG0MKiN9mw&app=desktop

Geo-blocked for me.

 

[nlloyd]

Geo-blocked for me.

Individual videos starting to appear on youtube:

Zagitova
Trusova

 

[zoe111]

This should be encouraging for other skaters to see that a program with no quads was so close to a program with 4. She certainly is not unbeatable.

Hmmm. Except that Trusova had one short jump/bad landing on the lutz/loop and two dodgy landings on other quads all probably costing her a minimum of 6-7 points. So she would have ended up a minimum of 10 points above Zagitova, possibly more.

 

[Sylvia]

Official results/protocols: https://www.jsfresults.com/InterNational/2019-2020/japanopen/index.htm

More videos here (for now): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIO2hiVoIEyquXrDe2Gi55Q/videos

 

[Wyliefan]

Satoko literally made me tear up. DANG, girl.

My mom thinks I'm catching a cold because I'm still walking around sniffling!

 

[Aerobicidal]

Last season, when I saw Trusova come out in her size XXXXXS sci-fi catsuit and make alien gestures at the judges, I though that this is, for me, the end of ladies skating.

On one level, what she's doing and what Zagitova has done and what Eteri has done are stunning in a lot of (good and bad) ways.

But the competitive aspect of this discipline is, IMO, a complete joke now. I'm more invested in when/whether Joubert debuts a new horror hair or whether Tuktamysheva continually alternates between two different pieces of music with the same "choreography" in her SP than ladies results.

 

[Finsta]

Hmmm. Except that Trusova had one short jump/bad landing on the lutz/loop and two dodgy landings on other quads all probably costing her a minimum of 6-7 points. So she would have ended up a minimum of 10 points above Zagitova, possibly more.

After watching videos I see where a Trusova was sloppy and skating choppy. She is young and will continue to improve. Alina is a seasoned veteran and was well prepared for this event. Still will show the other skaters that Trusova can be beaten this season. It will take clean, mature skating. But it can be done.

 

[mtnskater]

Everyone is talking about Trusova, but I’d like to know how Nathan skated.

 

[Sylvia]

@mtnskater, all the FS videos are still linked from the link provided in my post #79 above (I just edited in the results/protocols link there, too).

 

[Tavi]

Everyone is talking about Trusova, but I’d like to know how Nathan skated.

He had a couple of errors and slightly wonky jump landings but overall he looked pretty good, especially considering how early it is in the season. He seems to be focusing a lot on the performance. I liked the st sq and the fact that the choreo highlights the music in a lot of places. I did feel the judges were a bit generous with the GOE in some places, but others may disagree.

 

[ostile17]

Glimpses of Daisuke Takahashi's super wild new costume for his SP The Phoenix.
Part of the choreography was also changed.

The whole video will be broadcast tomorrow.

みち on Twitter

“大輔さんきたぁーーー🔥🔥🔥 The Phoenix 明日のカーニバルオンアイスで㊙️舞台裏映像もあるそうです❗️ 楽しみ💕😆✨ ありがとうございます！ #Sportsウォッチャー #高橋大輔 https://t.co/wIOYIomSAc”

twitter.com

 

[Wyliefan]

I just watched Alina. I cannot believe she got 74 PCS for that. If you ask me, she had better skating skills two years ago when she was skating to Don Quixote. I'm sorry, she seems like a sweet girl and I like her as a person, but just, no.

You may fire when ready, angry hordes.

 

[Aerobicidal]

I just watched Alina. I cannot believe she got 74 PCS for that. If you ask me, she had better skating skills two years ago when she was skating to Don Quixote. I'm sorry, she seems like a sweet girl and I like her as a person, but just, no.

You may fire when ready, angry hordes.

Don't worry. At her GPs I'm sure the PCS will be closer to 80.

 

[Wyliefan]

Don't worry. At her GPs I'm sure the PCS will be closer to 80.

There's not a doubt in my mind.

 

[kittyjake5]

QUOTE="ostile17, post: 5651894, member: 8870"]
Glimpses of Daisuke Takahashi's super wild new costume for his SP The Phoenix.
Part of the choreography was also changed.

The whole video will be broadcast tomorrow.

みち on Twitter

“大輔さんきたぁーーー🔥🔥🔥 The Phoenix 明日のカーニバルオンアイスで㊙️舞台裏映像もあるそうです❗️ 楽しみ💕😆✨ ありがとうございます！ #Sportsウォッチャー #高橋大輔 https://t.co/wIOYIomSAc”

twitter.com

[/QUOTE]

I like Dai's new costume. He sure looks exhausted in that end pose.