Caroline Green/Michael Parsons are a team

[aftershocks]

I don't get this pairing from the 8 year difference to the possibility that Caroline outgrows him soon as she's still only 15 and growing and he's really short for a Ice Dancer. And why is she so in a hurry to compete as a Senior she really should have stayed in Juniors for a couple of more seasons and get more experience then make the jump to Seniors.

We don't know if Caroline is continuing to grow though. She may have reached her adult height. Even if she does continue to grow, it doesn't mean she's going to become too tall for Michael. Right now, there is a nice height differential, and they appear to be well-matched. Maybe we can relax and allow this partnership to develop?

Michael has already transitioned to seniors, and Caroline is allowed to compete in seniors. I don't see any problems at this point, aside from the made-up ones being posed in this thread.

 

[barbarafan]

I don't get this pairing from the 8 year difference to the possibility that Caroline outgrows him soon as she's still only 15 and growing and he's really short for a Ice Dancer. And why is she so in a hurry to compete as a Senior she really should have stayed in Juniors for a couple of more seasons and get more experience then make the jump to Seniors.

How do you know she is still growing? I was done growing by 12 and many of my friends the same. What is all this staying in juniors for 4 yrs all about? Michael has a very strong stable build and will have no problem throwing her around.

 

[A.H.Black]

My surprises about this team are small.

I'm a bit surprised it is Caroline that is continuing. She was that one that was so sick last year and it was Gordon that kept going and waiting for her and supporting her. At Nationals, I thought she was the one that didn't look happy to be there. In retrospect, I'm sure this was because she was anxious about getting back to top level.

I'm a bit surprised that it is Michael that is continuing to skate. No particular reason, but I thought Rachel was the more natural skater.

You can never tell about desire when sitting in the stands - and my thoughts occurred from small impressions made from far away.

 

[insideedgeua]

@aftershocks I have not written a single bad thing about either of them and I have not one bad thing to say about them.
However, to quote an article on the issue "the U.S. Center for SafeSport has criticized figure skating for a culture that “allowed grooming and abuse to go on unchecked for too long.” " This is a serious issue and a discussion worth having. It's an issue in all partnerships with that big of an age gap and a pairing of teen/adult regardless of what federation they belong to

Yes, it is something worthy of having a serious discussion about, but not in this thread! By having the discussion in this thread, you do involve Michael, and that’s not fair at all.

As for your second point about it being an issue in all partnerships with a big age gap, no, that’s totally untrue! It is not an issue in all partnerships with a large age gap. In the vast majority of cases it’s a professional partnership, where frequently the younger girl is treated more like a little sister. Just as inappropriate behaviour can sometimes be an issue with couples that are close in age.

Have a serious discussion, start another thread, but don’t make it about all male partners or all male partners of a certain age. Stick to facts, not what could or might be going on. We have enough trouble keeping male skaters in the sport. Don’t cast them all in the same light.

 

[oleada]

I think this is a weird pairing, tbh. They are both talented and came up in the same camp so it makes sense on that front.

But, first of all there’s the age difference. She’s 8 years younger - at 15, and 23, it’s fairly noticeable and awkward. I don’t think there’s anyway that this won’t be talked about or commented on, sorry. It’s a big age gap at an age where it’s noticeable. I have little hope that their team can manage this well because as a rule, choreography/packaging had never been the strength for Wheaton teams (assuming they will keep the same coaching team). They’re both talented so it could work in the long run but it would require a lot of commitment and whose to say, she won’t decide to go to college or leave the sport in a few years.

Second, she doesn’t seem any shorter than Rachel, and Michael isn’t a tall guy. She could certainly grow a bit more.

 

[jlai]

It occurs to me this can be a temporary arrangement in the sense that each has a sibling partner to go back to should the sibling partner decides to skate again. I am totally guessing, not hoping to start anything here...

 

[hanca]

It occurs to me this can be a temporary arrangement in the sense that each has a sibling partner to go back to should the sibling partner decides to skate again. I am totally guessing, not hoping to start anything here...

I don’t think they have each a sibling partner to go back to. Otherwise would the siblings be expected to wait at the sideline just in case, rather than moving on with their lives?

 

[Bigbird]

Thought he would have chosen someone a little more mature, but what do we know. I didn't work for Eaton and his previous partner but oh well, maybe we'll be surprised.

 

[jlai]

I don’t think they have each a sibling partner to go back to. Otherwise would the siblings be expected to wait at the sideline just in case, rather than moving on with their lives?

One is recovering from an eating disorder; not sure about Gordan’s Plans; he could be moving away to college while little sis is finishing high school.

 

[her grace]

I think this is a weird pairing, tbh. They are both talented and came up in the same camp so it makes sense on that front.

I think it's a pairing that on paper makes the most sense of the available options. He-Parsons was by the far the best available male dancer (jr. world champ, GP medalist). She-Green is by far the best available female dancer (natl champ at every level but senior, JGP medalist). They both train at the same location so they have the same technique and no one has to move.

I initially thought he could pair up with Gropman, but she is leaving Wheaton, and possibly with some bad feelings regarding her split with Somerville, so she's not an option. Otherwise, who else would Parsons choose? Green could probably have found a younger partner, but I'm drawing a blank as to who the good available male skaters are. Certainly, none in the league of Parsons.

But, first of all there’s the age difference. She’s 8 years younger - at 15, and 23, it’s fairly noticeable and awkward. I don’t think there’s anyway that this won’t be talked about or commented on, sorry. It’s a big age gap at an age where it’s noticeable.

The age gap is there, but it's something that should be less of a factor with time. She'll be an adult in the 2021-2022 season, which isn't that far away, and it's not like the team should expect instant success anyway. They have time to grow and develop and if Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue retire after 2022, Green/Parsons will both be adults when they actually have a shot of moving up in the American ranks.

FWIW, Parsons is rather youthful looking, which shouldn't make the partnership look as father/daughter as some pairings do. And I'd like to see them skate together before deciding what impression they give.

Yes, it is something worthy of having a serious discussion about, but not in this thread! By having the discussion in this thread, you do involve Michael, and that’s not fair at all.

I agree with this. Just because Coughlin was an alleged predator doesn't have anything to do with Parsons. So long as they follow the SafeSport guidelines (ex. no dating), there shouldn't be problems with this partnership, and frankly, those guidelines would be good for all partnerships with minors to follow, regardless of age gaps.

 

[barbarafan]

Yes, it is something worthy of having a serious discussion about, but not in this thread! By having the discussion in this thread, you do involve Michael, and that’s not fair at all.

As for your second point about it being an issue in all partnerships with a big age gap, no, that’s totally untrue! It is not an issue in all partnerships with a large age gap. In the vast majority of cases it’s a professional partnership, where frequently the younger girl is treated more like a little sister. Just as inappropriate behaviour can sometimes be an issue with couples that are close in age.

Have a serious discussion, start another thread, but don’t make it about all male partners or all male partners of a certain age. Stick to facts, not what could or might be going on. We have enough trouble keeping male skaters in the sport. Don’t cast them all in the same light.

Thank-you so much for that. You have put in words exactly what I was feeling but the proper words weren't coming to me to be able to make your points on paper.

 

[Katesk8sgr8s]

I think it's a pairing that on paper makes the most sense of the available options. He-Parsons was by the far the best available male dancer (jr. world champ, GP medalist). She-Green is by far the best available female dancer (natl champ at every level but senior, JGP medalist). They both train at the same location so they have the same technique and no one has to move.

I agree with you. On paper it makes good sense! People can always speculate, but there is a good chance it was a amicable split and a mutually desired pairing, and everyone is happy. (I think sometimes we forget that a split and a re-pairing can be a very good thing, a time to improve or solve a problem, or just match up different factors to create a better situation) I am looking forward to seeing team Green-Parsons soon. Does anyone know if they had to have some kind of showing somewhere, before the GP assignment was made?

 

[Lara111]

It occurs to me this can be a temporary arrangement in the sense that each has a sibling partner to go back to should the sibling partner decides to skate again. I am totally guessing, not hoping to start anything here...

this team seems like a team quickly thrown together without too much thinking or care for either of the partners, but that is not new.

 

[Alilou]

this team seems like a team quickly thrown together without too much thinking or care for either of the partners, but that is not new.

How do you know that it was done quickly?
How do you know that it was without too much thinking?
How do you know it was done without care for either of the partners?
That's a whole lot of assumptions going on there unless you know things the rest of us don't.

 

[Lara111]

How do you know that it was done quickly?
How do you know that it was without too much thinking?
How do you know it was done without care for either of the partners?
That's a whole lot of assumptions going on there unless you know things the rest of us don't.

It seems to me just by looking at this pairing. It is my opinion.

 

[Carolla5501]

this team seems like a team quickly thrown together without too much thinking or care for either of the partners, but that is not new.

This post seems like it was throw together without too much thinking and is based on your desire to create gossip rather than fact! Guess that's not new either?

 

[lauravvv]

I'm a bit surprised that it is Michael that is continuing to skate. No particular reason, but I thought Rachel was the more natural skater.

Rachel Parsons was the one who moved away from competitions because of her eating disorder and the desire to take her time to heal and recover from it - https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ided-to-take-a-step-back-from-skating.105490/.

 

[Katesk8sgr8s]

this team seems like a team quickly thrown together without too much thinking or care for either of the partners, but that is not new.

Lara111, I just read some of your past comments and wow are they negative and provocative. The Greens may both be fine and there is no reason to jump to your negative assumptions. Sometimes it is not such a tough thing. parents, kids and coaches might have discuss the need for a split that results in one better partnership and two other kids who are happier going on to something else. Changes can happen for all kinds of reasons, like saving money. Or to choose school. Or to end a bad situation. Or because of growth or health problems or different goals. It could be all kinds of things, but the point is the change might be positive or necessary. Kids might then go on to other things, or they might choose to go back to the search pool where everyone starts. Gordon and Rachel may be quite happy. My point is, there is no need to be so negative when you could simply acknowledge that people have reasons more than we know. Just like you really shouldn't be so quick to judge the women who spoke up in the abuse case (different thread, sorry). Even if you're a negative person, just TRY to support these athletes in their very difficult sports. It is difficult not just because of the skill and the physical strain, but also because of hurtful assumptions and everything else.

 

[Lara111]

Lara111, I just read some of your past comments and wow are they negative and provocative. The Greens may both be fine and there is no reason to jump to your negative assumptions. Sometimes it is not such a tough thing. parents, kids and coaches might have discuss the need for a split that results in one better partnership and two other kids who are happier going on to something else. Changes can happen for all kinds of reasons, like saving money. Or to choose school. Or to end a bad situation. Or because of growth or health problems or different goals. It could be all kinds of things, but the point is the change might be positive or necessary. Kids might then go on to other things, or they might choose to go back to the search pool where everyone starts. Gordon and Rachel may be quite happy. My point is, there is no need to be so negative when you could simply acknowledge that people have reasons more than we know. Just like you really shouldn't be so quick to judge the women who spoke up in the abuse case (different thread, sorry). Even if you're a negative person, just TRY to support these athletes in their very difficult sports. It is difficult not just because of the skill and the physical strain, but also because of hurtful assumptions and everything else.

and you try not to judge me or anybody when the opinion is different from yours. I expressed my opinion and I like Michael and Caroline a lot in their prior partnerships and wish them only the best. I just do not think that they are the best match physically that all. I also support those who think that it would be beneficial for Caroline to stay in Juniors for couple more years.

 

[VGThuy]

Whether to go senior or stay junior for longer is probably an individual choice that should be made by them and their team. We've seen examples of successful teams who waited and successful teams who did not.

 

[aftershocks]

Indeed everyone can have their opinion, no matter what emotions or perceptions they are basing it on. Perhaps @Lara111, you loved the other pairings, and so are perhaps having a hard time seeing the splits happen. But we are not directly involved and we don't have access to any details. Sometimes, it might help our blood pressure and our fandom to take a number of steps back and chill. Not that I'm telling anyone what to do or how to enjoy their fs fandom.

I personally do not see any physical drawbacks nor apparent physical mismatch to this new pairing. There don't seem to be any height issues either at this point. The coaches are skilled and professional, so I would trust their judgment over that of fair weather fans commenting on the sidelines. Plus the skaters involved are also skillful and experienced competitors who surely have a better grasp on their decisions, desires and goals than we do.

Breathe deeply, let it all out. Chill with some past videos of your favorite teams. It's early July 2019. Let's take each moment as it comes in this sport, and in our own lives, and try to enjoy! Again, this is mostly advice I'm giving myself as life is a roller coaster and things can move pretty fast and be over quickly. Let's pause and remember the life-changing, 'can't go back and change' stuff that happened last year in July.

 

[Dobre]

Whether to go senior or stay junior for longer is probably an individual choice that should be made by them and their team.

And the federation. I mean, it's not the only factor or necessarily an overriding one; but obviously skaters need that support for the long haul. And needs & resources shift during different seasons. Ushakova & Nekrasov had a guaranteed berth on this year's Senior GP, and a higher SB score than teams that received two spots. But Russia needs U&N in the junior field right now to help earn JGP & Junior Worlds spots, and the Russian Fed has senior teams that could use the GP ones. So it was never likely U&N would move up this year.

 

[euterpe]

I'd rather wait and see how they perform together before drawing any conclusions about the pairing.

 

[Jammers]

My problem with this pairing is Michael is so short and that hurts teams when the male dancer is short as he is. That's one of the problems with H/B is their lack of height. Rachel was nearly his height and it was distracting and Caroline at 15 is going to probably grow at least a couple of more inches and be at least Rachel's height if not taller and how is that not going to be distracting?

 

[aftershocks]

My problem with this pairing is Michael is so short and that hurts teams when the male dancer is short as he is. That's one of the problems with H/B is their lack of height. Rachel was nearly his height and it was distracting and Caroline at 15 is going to probably grow at least a couple of more inches and be at least Rachel's height if not taller and how is that not going to be distracting?

Why worry about all that now?! Especially when you have absolutely nothing to do with any of it, and you can't change anything about any of it!

Hawayek/ Baker are one of the best ice dance teams in the world. Why do you focus on what you think is a problem for H/B? If they did that, they would never have got past juniors. If Jean-Luc and his parents thought the way you think, he probably would have never pursued ice dance, and the sport as well as fans would have missed out on something very special. Jean-Luc is an exceptional skater, and he has a wonderful partner in Kaitlyn. They have grown so much together and are looking better than ever under their new coaching team. I admire people who make the best of what they have, rather than obsessing over not being this or that. All any of us can do is work with what we have and try to be the best at what we enjoy doing.

The same with Michael. Why can't you focus on his strengths and what makes him a wonderful skater? If you don't like watching him perform, then don't. If some of you have a beef with Michael no longer being partnered with his sister, then go have a big cry about it and binge on their past performances. What are you going to do about it? Why not wish Rachel well and send her supportive messages? Why not be encouraging toward Michael and Caroline, and wish Gordon well in whatever he's planning to do going forward? Why not be happy for Michael and Caroline that they have this opportunity to continue competing together? Why not give thanks for all the wonderful figure skating performances we've witnessed this past season, and look toward next season with a sense of joy and gratitude? None of us know how much longer we have to enjoy what makes us happy.

Why not come to this thread and think of something positive to say? That might be a nice contribution instead of all this sturm und drang bellyaching!

 

[RoseRed]

My problem with this pairing is Michael is so short and that hurts teams when the male dancer is short as he is. That's one of the problems with H/B is their lack of height. Rachel was nearly his height and it was distracting and Caroline at 15 is going to probably grow at least a couple of more inches and be at least Rachel's height if not taller and how is that not going to be distracting?

How do you know she's still going to grow, particularly 2 inches (which is quite a lot)? It's quite common for girls to be about done growing at that age. She might, but saying she'll probably grow at least a couple more inches seems excessive to me.

Anyways, Marco Fabbri is significantly shorter than Michael (165 cm vs 172 cm) and only 4 cm taller than his partner, and they seem to make it work quite well. I rarely hear people complaining about their height difference.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Sometimes I dread the off season and not because there's little "real" competitions. More than a few posters get all hot and bothered about their pet peeves in partnerships:
So and so is so young 15 or so she will grow like crazy and her partner is too short for her anyway. Another so and so have been in juniors too long they should move up and not spoil their chances in seniors. And my not so favorite so and so are a sibling team that will go nowhere. It's time for them to split up and get different partners!
Really some of us act and post like we have all the answers and how dare these teams don't do as we suggest almost demand. Well we're not part of their coaching team and to prejudge a new paring is useless. Opinions are fine but why not wait a bit until we actually see them skate together and critique their actual skating?
My own opinion Green/Parsons are a brand new team that will be ranked somewhere around sixth in the USA.

 

[barbarafan]

My problem with this pairing is Michael is so short and that hurts teams when the male dancer is short as he is. That's one of the problems with H/B is their lack of height. Rachel was nearly his height and it was distracting and Caroline at 15 is going to probably grow at least a couple of more inches and be at least Rachel's height if not taller and how is that not going to be distracting?

As per my answer to you in post@32..

How do you know she is still growing? I was done growing by 12 and many of my friends the same. Besides Michael may not be the tallest dancer but he has a very solid frame and will have no problem at all with lifts.

 

[nimi]

Well we're not part of their coaching team and to prejudge a new paring is useless. Opinions are fine but why not wait a bit until we actually see them skate together and critique their actual skating?

Yeah, I'm curious to see Green/Parsons skating together. I have a hard time "seeing" this pairing in my head but that tells more about my lack of insight than it does about their potential, or presumed lack thereof, as a team.

Earlier I posted an interview with Gilles/Poirier in their fan thread. They said this: “No one from the get-go is the perfect partner. You grow into that, build that together. Being right for each other is a process, it’s not something that you have or you don’t have.” (Also, I think Paul is around the same height as Michael...?)

Good luck to Caroline & Michael!

 

[Lara111]

My problem with this pairing is Michael is so short and that hurts teams when the male dancer is short as he is. That's one of the problems with H/B is their lack of height. Rachel was nearly his height and it was distracting and Caroline at 15 is going to probably grow at least a couple of more inches and be at least Rachel's height if not taller and how is that not going to be distracting?

I totally agree. Michael height is a limiting factor for his future success in any partnership. Caroline needs a tall guy and only skies will be the limit for her.