Olympic governing body 'knows the truth' behind late figure skater's alleged sexual abuse

[Aerobicidal]

Yes there was a typo. Safesport could have said Coughlin is a nassar or not a nassar

Safesport should make clear who is a child molester or accused of being a child molester. Plus all the accusers and their allegations

Maybe instead of ranting about how women who may be under 18 should have their identities and personal stories of alleged sexual abuse publicized, you should go back to updating your Ross Miner for Olympics Instagram site. I think that would be time better spent.

 

[giselle23]

What I don’t understand is why people are talking about an agenda like it is a bad thing. Everyone has an agenda, but it seems to me it is only brought up when someone disagrees with someone else’s agenda. There is no neutral. Neutral is simply another name for not acknowledging an agenda you agree with.

In journalism, the reporter is supposed to present the facts in an unbiased way. If a writer has an agenda, they should not hold themselves out as objective reporters. They can write opinion pieces that make clear their purpose. Christine Brennan is clearly outraged that more isn't being done at the top levels to investigate sexual abuse in sports. That is all good, but she is supposed to leave her outrage at the door when she reports the facts (or the non-facts).

 

[overedge]

In journalism, the reporter is supposed to present the facts in an unbiased way. If a writer has an agenda, they should not hold themselves out as objective reporters. They can write opinion pieces that make clear their purpose. Christine Brennan is clearly outraged that more isn't being done at the top levels to investigate sexual abuse in sports. That is all good, but she is supposed to leave her outrage at the door when she reports the facts (or the non-facts).

So what facts about prevention of abuse against athletes should she have reported? You keep harping on how her reporting is biased. She reported one side of the story (the accusers' lawyer). She tried to contact the other side (USFS and the accused's agent) and neither of them would respond, and she reported that too. Was she supposed to not go with the story until she got comments from the other side? That's not balanced journalism either.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Maybe instead of ranting about how women who may be under 18 should have their identities and personal stories of alleged sexual abuse publicized, you should go back to updating your Ross Miner for Olympics Instagram site. I think that would be time better spent.

This topic has become extremely painful and divisive for our FSU community. I see members at each other's throats like never before. I think we should at least try to stay away from personal digs, no matter how much we disagree with each other's opinions.

 

[okokok777]

In journalism, the reporter is supposed to present the facts in an unbiased way. If a writer has an agenda, they should not hold themselves out as objective reporters. They can write opinion pieces that make clear their purpose. Christine Brennan is clearly outraged that more isn't being done at the top levels to investigate sexual abuse in sports. That is all good, but she is supposed to leave her outrage at the door when she reports the facts (or the non-facts).

I'm sorry @giselle23 but I'm struggling to see what part of Brennan's reporting of the JC case did you find biased?

 

[UGG]

In journalism, the reporter is supposed to present the facts in an unbiased way. If a writer has an agenda, they should not hold themselves out as objective reporters. They can write opinion pieces that make clear their purpose. Christine Brennan is clearly outraged that more isn't being done at the top levels to investigate sexual abuse in sports. That is all good, but she is supposed to leave her outrage at the door when she reports the facts (or the non-facts).

She seems neutral to me. The facts just seem to be swinging to the side you are not a part of.

 

[canbelto]

I think I'm going to step away from this board. I cannot believe that so many people here want to publicly shame and hound the victims. I never saw this in any other board, not the gymnastics boards about Larry Nassar, not the television discussion boards about Leaving Neverland. The words of people in these threads is disgusting. I hope no one close to you is ever sexually abused. I worry for them, considering how little empathy some of y'all have for them.

And one last time: if John Coughlin wanted to clear his name, he had a choice: to live, and explain his actions. He chose not to do so.

 

[mag]

In journalism, the reporter is supposed to present the facts in an unbiased way. If a writer has an agenda, they should not hold themselves out as objective reporters. They can write opinion pieces that make clear their purpose. Christine Brennan is clearly outraged that more isn't being done at the top levels to investigate sexual abuse in sports. That is all good, but she is supposed to leave her outrage at the door when she reports the facts (or the non-facts).

Why should she leave her outrage at the door? If the abuse of minors is not something to get outraged at I don’t know what is. Furthermore, to not be outraged is to demonstrate a bias as well. There is no neutral. What you are calling neutral is simply a bias that matches with your own.

At least three people have accused JC of some sort of misconduct. Those allegations were investigated and found to have enough merit to warrant an upgrading of JC status from restricted to suspended. Does any of this mean he is guilty, no, but society is more than happy to be outraged at much lesser accusations with much less investigation. Now that JC is dead we have his family, and the coroner, pushing a story that, from what I can see, has no basis in fact at all. Is that not a reason for outrage? CB attempted to get a comment from both the USFSA and JC’s family. They CHOSE not to respond, as is their right. But that choice has the consequence that the article will be written without their comments.

There appears to be no other crime that brings out the outrage police more often or with more strength than when a woman accuses a man of misconduct or assault. The irony is, the chance of a false allegation is either equal to or less than other crimes. Add to that that the vast majority of cases are never reported, the majority of those reported never go to trial, and of the ones that go to trial, the chances of conviction and a sentence befitting the crime are slim again.

No other accusers are required to provide evidence. Get your car stolen, report to the police. Not only will they believe you, they will actually investigate without assuming you asked for it or assuming you are conspiring with the last person who reported their car stolen.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

So they have the option to sue USFA or Safesport instead? I didn’t expect.

Once a case is under Safesport, doesn't it means that USFS has no more jurdiction and in that case how can they be sued?

 

[Meoima]

Once a case is under Safesport, doesn't it means that USFS has no more jurdiction and in that case how can they be sued?

I am just naming the organizations involved. I have no idea if they want to sue, who or which organization they could go for. USFA maybe but what would be the reason?

 

[Prancer]

Once a case is under Safesport, doesn't it means that USFS has no more jurdiction and in that case how can they be sued?

The lawsuit would not be over how the investigation was handled, but over whether or not the USFS fulfilled its responsibility for protecting the alleged victims during the years the alleged misconduct was taking place.

 

[tony]

I think I'm going to step away from this board. I cannot believe that so many people here want to publicly shame and hound the victims. I never saw this in any other board, not the gymnastics boards about Larry Nassar, not the television discussion boards about Leaving Neverland. The words of people in these threads is disgusting. I hope no one close to you is ever sexually abused. I worry for them, considering how little empathy some of y'all have for them.

And one last time: if John Coughlin wanted to clear his name, he had a choice: to live, and explain his actions. He chose not to do so.

Don’t let a few people and their automatic assumptions of guilt or innocence ruin the whole thing. There’s this fascinating trend in the world where people are quick to judge, either for good or bad, based on the idea of the person that was presented in public. Some people have a really hard time believing there are skeletons in ones closet, or that someone might be able to pull off a completely normal, innocent persona to everyone else.

And then there are those people that completely hate everything about the metoo movement, because they have never dealt with sexual assault personally or through someone close to them. Some people really think it would be so easy to just go report an offense right after it occurs.

 

[ZilphaK]

And one last time: if John Coughlin wanted to clear his name, he had a choice: to live, and explain his actions. He chose not to do so.

No matter what he said in a letter or what assumptions are being made about why he took his own life, chances are the reasons are much more faceted and complex than simply making a choice in response any one particular situation.

Suicide is second leading cause of death in boys and men ages 10-34 in the US.

Men especially are far less likely to seek care for mental health issues, and ninety percent of people who die by suicide are suffering from mental illness or addiction, most often depression. Depression can take away ability to make rational choices or any choices at all other than doing what feels necessary to remove burden of pain; this is why so much education is still needed when it comes to recognizing the signs and signals of a person who may be considering taking their own life. At some point, those who take their own life are beyond choice or willpower, which is why strong and persistent intervention is needed.

The choice to take ones own life is almost never made rationally, or free from the distortions of mental illness.

The reasons he took his own life were almost certainly rooted deeply, and the act should not be considered as proof for or against any argument of the circumstances preceding. He is worthy of compassion.

 

[giselle23]

She seems neutral to me. The facts just seem to be swinging to the side you are not a part of.

What facts? There are none, only vague allegations that we hear about second hand.

 

[Vagabond]

The reasons he took his own life were almost certainly rooted deeply, and the act should not be considered as proof for or against any argument of the circumstances preceding. He is worthy of compassion.

You should let other people make their own judgments.

In my own case, I do feel some compassion for my brothers who abused me. The first one did not ask to have a personality disorder. The second one did not ask to be so badly abused by the first that he lost his own moral compass. But whatever compassion I do feel for them is outweighed by revulsion and contempt.

 

[nlloyd]

What facts? There are none, only vague allegations that we hear about second hand.

Here is one fact:

Attorney John Manly is representing three women who allege that, when they were minors, the late figure skater John Coughlin sexually abused them.

That may not mean much to you, but it is a significant development in the unfolding story, and deserved reporting.

 

[misskarne]

He is worthy of compassion.

Is he? His decision destroyed any chance of a proper investigation and ensured no-one will ever get proper closure on this. He chose the most painfully destructive route possible for everyone involved.

 

[hoptoad]

Is he? His decision destroyed any chance of a proper investigation and ensured no-one will ever get proper closure on this. He chose the most painfully destructive route possible for everyone involved.

That's true, and yet suicide is, as Jozet said, multi-factorial and complex. You can believe that John's actions caused pain for EVERYONE, and yet still have compassion for him. Compassion that does not mean you do not also have an abundance of compassion for those who suffer abuse of any kind.

 

[ZilphaK]

You should let other people make their own judgments.

In my own case, I do feel some compassion for my brothers who abused me. The first one did not ask to have a personality disorder. The second one did not ask to be so badly abused by the first that he lost his own moral compass. But whatever compassion I do feel for them is outweighed by revulsion and contempt.

What I am saying is that the fact of anyone taking their own life cannot be used as evidence of a specific precipitating factor, of being "pushed" into it somehow. It's not usually some lucid choice made with a whole mind. No one ever has to extend compassion to another human. But to suggest that taking his own life was evidence of his guilt via " if he were innocent, he would have not chosen to kill himself" is wrong thinking about how mental illness plays a part in this. It's compassionate to look at his suicide this way.

 

[ZilphaK]

Is he? His decision destroyed any chance of a proper investigation and ensured no-one will ever get proper closure on this. He chose the most painfully destructive route possible for everyone involved.

Suicide is not a freewill choice or decision. It is only a "choice" looked at from outside and with no consideration for the massive distortion in thinking that comes with depression or mental illness, which statistics say is most likely the case in any suicide.

 

[JamieElena]

nm

 

[JamieElena]

What I am saying is that the fact of anyone taking their own life cannot be used as evidence of a specific precipitating factor, of being "pushed" into it somehow. It's not usually some lucid choice made with a whole mind. No one ever has to extend compassion to another human. But to suggest that taking his own life was evidence of his guilt via " if he were innocent, he would have not chosen to kill himself" is wrong thinking about how mental illness plays a part in this. It's compassionate to look at his suicide this way.

Yet his family hasn't mentioned depression/mental illness. In fact, they would like us to believe that a "specific precipitating factor" - the SS investigations/suspension/false allegations - "pushed" him to take his life.

 

[ZilphaK]

Is everyone who commits suicide automatically depressed and/or mentally ill? Do people never kill themselves when looking at prison time or when faced with the repercussions of their actions? A prominent lawyer here in my town was about to be charged with all sorts of money-laundering and other crimes and he shot himself on the day he was to be served. He wasn't depressed, he'd rather die than go to prison. Was that not his choice?

Statistically, 90% of people who commit suicide are suffering from mental illness or addiction. Plenty of people make the choice to face consequences of court-- unwillingly, if you want to look at it that way--than solve a temporary problem with a "permanent solution." It's more likely that distorted thinking was part of that action.

It's more correct in most cases to compare suicide to "He chose to die from complications of surgery" or "He chose to die from head on collision after a truck crossed into his driving lane" than "He chose to hide in the barn."

To think of the extreme depression that leads to suicide as normal feelings of sadness or grief or fear is a misunderstanding of the severity of mental illness that takes away choice. It serves our feelings of anger and need for justice to think of it otherwise -- and possibly relieves our fear that we could find ourself in a similar situation brought on by or compounded by mental illness -- but the "decision" more often stands apart from reaction to any single event.

 

[ZilphaK]

Yet his family hasn't mentioned depression/mental illness. In fact, they would like us to believe that a "specific precipitating factor" - the SS investigations/suspension/false allegations - "pushed" him to take his life.

You know, I'm guessing a lot of people with depression have worked out ways of hiding it. The number of times "we had no idea" is said are countless.

 

[judiz]

Yet his family hasn't mentioned depression/mental illness. In fact, they would like us to believe that a "specific precipitating factor" - the SS investigations/suspension/false allegations - "pushed" him to take his life.

As many of you know, my husband died by suicide 18 months ago. I know why my husband did it, he was suffering from severe mental illnesses that were resistant to medications and therapy and had been suicidal for some time.

I belong to two support groups for those who lost loved ones to suicide and at least half the people in the group have said they saw no signs of depression in their loved ones before they died.

 

[barbarafan]

Suicide is not a freewill choice or decision. It is only a "choice" looked at from outside and with no consideration for the massive distortion in thinking that comes with depression or mental illness, which statistics say is most likely the case in any suicide.

He did not feel he was capable of going through what was to come. There is a different line in the sand for everyone. It can be just the fact that everyone will know of the accusations against him (if true or untrue). Or if true or untrue does not have the inner strength to go through the entire process and feels his life and livlihood are forever destroyed so no point in going through it. No light at the end of the tunnel. If guilty and has regrets might also feel he does not want the victims to have to relive it in court and does not want to face his family when they know the truth orrrrr if not guilty does not them to go through all the processes with him. Could be the same reasons so many victims do not come forward. It is a very private part of their life which is really no one elses business. People do not come forward because it is fun....it usually is that keeping it buried is keeping them for going forward and succeeding in their life or a need to see justice done or a fear that by keeping quiet the same thing will happen to someone else. We will never know exactly what was the breaking factor in him which made him take his life as we don't know what particular thing make some victims take their life.

 

[JamieElena]

You know, I'm guessing a lot of people with depression have worked out ways of hiding it. The number of times "we had no idea" is said are countless.

"We had no idea" - can also be denial in the face of grief or due to a lack of understanding or not being aware of the signs of extreme depression. Not to blame the living of course - for centuries, heck, millennia, we haven't been attuned to the signs of depression & with the stigmas associated with mental illness, how could mankind even have learned then?!? Hopefully, in this day and age of more awareness and wider acceptance of mental illness, there will be less "we had no idea" suicides and more people will receive the treatment they need.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Is he? His decision destroyed any chance of a proper investigation and ensured no-one will ever get proper closure on this. He chose the most painfully destructive route possible for everyone involved.

This is a very simplistic view of suicide. Humans do not chose to end their lives if they have a shred of hope. They know what sort of pain their death will cause to their families - but they just can't go on. What leads to that darkness and hopelessness is internal, but often triggered by external events. Yes, he does deserve compassion. People aren't perfect.

 

[Vagabond]

Statistically, 90% of people who commit suicide are suffering from mental illness or addiction.

I don't recall reading anything that indicated Coughlin suffered from mental illness or addiction.

What I am saying is that the fact of anyone taking their own life cannot be used as evidence of a specific precipitating factor, of being "pushed" into it somehow.

How do you know that?

Suicide and the Publicly Exposed Pedophile

Background:
Current clinical wisdom is that the vast majority of those who complete suicide suffer from a mental disorder. Uncritical adherence to this belief may limit our understanding and restrict the full range of prevention activities. We aimed to examine the public record for accounts of suicide by men who had been, or were about to be, investigated or apprehended for “sex only” child sex offences, with a view to presenting a collection of case histories, and identifying examples of suicide in the apparent absence of mental disorder other than pedophilia.

Results:
Twenty case histories were identified of men with no apparent mental disorder (other than pedophilia) who completed suicide shortly after exposure or threatened public exposure and/or early or potential legal punishment.

Conclusion:
This evidence strongly suggests that exposure or threatened public exposure of pedophilia and/or early or potential legal punishment creates a predicament, which may lead to completed suicide.

I have seen other reports that are consistent with this.

 

[ZilphaK]

I'm going to bow out, but leave with this: How we talk about suicide is important -- the words we use, the assignation of fault or cause.

I've watched five families of friends go through the wide range of emotions that come after a loved one dies by suicide, some of those emotions un-namable because they are specific to loss after a loved one takes their own life. I've read countless stories of families of athletes of have killed themselves, and only after long, hard looks back and over time do the warning signs begin to reveal themselves in relief from the entire story of a person's life.

And again, especially with athletes, history of head injury and sub-concussive impact need to be taken into consideration.

I understand all the issues and emotions at play in this particular situation.

But again, in talking about suicide and mental health, it makes a difference how we talk about it, irrespective of any one situation. It may seem at first glance that calling it a choice makes the process of re-directing people from that choice more simple, straightforward..."do-able"; or that people considering the choice go about weighing options the same way we weigh other options, even in very difficult times.

It's closer to true and more useful clinically for family and friends to embrace the true difficulty in identifying those struggling and in helping people get help, people who are on an unbending track with no obvious choice but to go froward to completion; to think of how hard it is to get someone to choose to believe that an abyss is an orchid, and and know that even at the point you get them to say, "It's an orchid" they are most likely still seeing an abyss.

Finally, losing a child is one of the hardest things a family will go through. Losing a child to suicide, many parents will say, makes the pain all that much worse. I'd weigh what the family is saying right now, how they are saying it, in light of that pain.