U.S. Pairs 2018-19 season - News & Updates, Part IX

[barbarafan]

@Bonjour Sherry - Just wait a year Bonjour Sherry .... Canada will have exceptional pairs teams.... Brasseur and Bardei (BTW, have you seen their twist live).....

I certainly have but the judges must have been on coffee break when they did it at nationals as their GOE's were blah. As
they are not the "Chosen Ones" in the Cdn Fed's mind they were not rewarded for many things at nationals. Good luck getting out of Canada to compete

 

[Sylvia]

Copying out all the pairs selections from the press release:

2019 World Championships
Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc

Alternate 1 – Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea
Alternate 2 – Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Chris Knierim
Alternate 3 – Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay


2019 Four Continents Championships
Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier
Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea

Alternate 1 – Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay
Alternate 2 – Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Chris Knierim
Alternate 3 – Jessica Calalang/Brian Johnson


2019 World Junior Championships
Sarah Feng/TJ Nyman [WD from Nationals/Sr. after having qualified for the JGP Final]
Kate Finster/Balazs Nagy [J2]
Laiken Lockley/Keenan Prochnow [J1]

Alternate 1 – Chelsea Liu/Ian Meyh [S11]
Alternate 2 – Grace Knoop/Blake Eisenach [J5]
(both teams need minimums 23 / 44)

https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...d-four-continents-and-world-junior-teams.aspx

 

[Erin]

Selecting the Knierims as world alternates is ridiculous. He should be scheduling surgery ASAP and USFS should not be encouraging them to continue training. It was dangerous for them to be competing with that injury.

 

[Stephanie]

Could envelope funding be a factor? I believe (at least in the past) being a worlds alternate guaranteed you some level of funding. Placing 7th at nationals probably doesn't give them much, if anything.

I'm not saying it's fair to other teams, of course

 

[wickedwitch]

Could envelope funding be a factor? I believe (at least in the past) being a worlds alternate guaranteed you some level of funding. Placing 7th at nationals probably doesn't give them much, if anything.

I'm not saying it's fair to other teams, of course

They should get that from their GP/challenger medal.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Tarah and Danny got the "reward for skating poorly" award and will be 1st alternates for Worlds and going to 4CC. Deanna and Nate got the "we don't care how well you did award" and will be staying home

WORLDS Ashley and Tim

4CCs Ashley and Tim
Haven and Brandon
Tarah and Danny

And the BEST part. Alternate two for 4CCs is the Knerim's…. "Married couple points award" I guess!

Politics at it's finest at work (and we wonder why we don't do well internationally... Knerim's skated injured put on a skate that was horrid, even they admitted the scores were 'gifted', he's suppose to have surgery but... We make them an alternate for an even next month! Guess USFSA doesn't think the wrist really needs help?? LOL!)

Wait.... what?

Even tho Im not the biggest fan of S-D&B THEY SHOULD be going to 4 CC.. They aren't?????

That would be VERY tough to explain to them.

D&F do not have a BOW that makes their case.. also they are mostly only getting credit for SBS single Axels. I feel bad...real bad for S-D&B.

If they said they didnt want to continue in skating, who could blame them.

 

[peibeck]

Selecting the Knierims as world alternates is ridiculous. He should be scheduling surgery ASAP and USFS should not be encouraging them to continue training. It was dangerous for them to be competing with that injury.

And more ridiculous, if @Stephanie surmises, it could be for funding reasons, it really deprives young and up coming teams who rightfully placed higher than the Knierims some much needed funding.

I feel badly that they have gone through so many health scares and injuries, but it's not like they have been in any way consistent ever. Chris is not miraculously not going to start landing 3 sals. They are not the future of USFS pairs.

 

[pairskatingfan]

While it makes a bit of sense to send K/O to 4CC considering they won last year, I don’t understand how K/S-K made the alternate list over D/F ??

Should be K/O as alternate one,
S/B as alternate two,
D/F as alternate three.

4CC results don’t have much an impact on next year’s results, so sending Haven and Brandon there is fine. Very disrespectful to their results and Deanna and Nathan’s results to put Alexa and Chris as alternates ahead of them.

 

[AYS]

Tarah and Danny got the "reward for skating poorly" award and will be 1st alternates for Worlds and going to 4CC. Deanna and Nate got the "we don't care how well you did award" and will be staying home

WORLDS Ashley and Tim

4CCs Ashley and Tim
Haven and Brandon
Tarah and Danny

And the BEST part. Alternate two for 4CCs is the Knerim's…. "Married couple points award" I guess!

Politics at it's finest at work (and we wonder why we don't do well internationally... Knerim's skated injured put on a skate that was horrid, even they admitted the scores were 'gifted', he's suppose to have surgery but... We make them an alternate for an even next month! Guess USFSA doesn't think the wrist really needs help?? LOL!)

I do think there is a strong argument to be made for K/O over S/B as world's alternates (and I say this as more of a fan of S/B): a GP silver carries a lot of weight, as does being defending 4CC champs, and if they do ok, they have more potential to finish high at worlds. In addition, they won the sp and were well on their way to probably winning or at worst, second here, but for one freak mistake. I wouldn't characterize what they did at Nationals as "skating poorly". All that said, I'm less on board with the 4CCs decision. There's less on the line there and I think S/B deserve that reward for their Nationals bronze and pretty good Challenger event performances. But again, it's the same selection criteria and K/O are defending champs...

I have mixed feelings about the Knierims' situation. There are arguments to be made for getting bumped up, decent results on paper including a GP medal of their own this season, but they've clearly been struggling and this nationals was an absolute disaster. If he was/is injured, they should have taken the time to get it taken care of and start fresh next season.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Ive been thinking while I was in the #TTW thread... maybe K&O got 4 CC because...

1. They are the defending 4CC Champions
2. They won the SP
3. They see the botched lift in Free as a fluke
4. They had the highest color of medal (silver) at a GP event........

 

[Willin]

I think there's a number of reasons the Knirems shouldn't have been named above the other teams.

1. The wrist injury needs to get fixed ASAP so they can be ready for next season
2. They're the best team when they're on, but they haven't been on a whole lot this season. Their performance at Nationals and the injury gives me 0% confidence they could hit both programs cleanly at 4CC/Worlds if they were called up.
3. They need more time to adjust to the new coaching situation after all the switching this fall. It looks like adjustments are still being made with some things.
4. Younger teams need experience somewhere - even 4CC
5. Teams they were placed ahead of or put on the lists instead of are injury free and much more consistent (S/B, Lu/Mitrofanov), so even if those teams have a lower ceiling points-wise I'd trust them more to get back two spots at Worlds (if called up) or podium at 4CC.

I'm really impressed with Cain and Leduc's twist and lifts. I remember people saying they'd never get good pairs skills with the lack of a big height difference, but at Nationals they looked incredibly strong. The lack of a height difference also makes their lines match very well compared to other teams and makes synchronized choreography look cleaner. I really like that aspect of their skating.

 

[Spun Silver]

Wait.... what?

Even tho Im not the biggest fan of S-D&B THEY SHOULD be going to 4 CC.. They aren't?????

That would be VERY tough to explain to them.

D&F do not have a BOW that makes their case.. also they are mostly only getting credit for SBS single Axels. I feel bad...real bad for S-D&B.

If they said they didnt want to continue in skating, who could blame them.

I don't understand your reasoning. Why wouldn't D/F go to 4CCs over S/B since they beat them at Nats? Do you mean K/O? I have to say that, although I'm a fan of S/B, K/O seems clearly the better team at this point, winning the short and well on their way to a podium finish if not for that freakish aborted lift. S/B made mistakes and kinda backed into their bronze here, and their season hasn't been stellar. They don't even have one great program. Since USFS is openly using criteria other than Nats results, this decision seems OK to me.

I totally share the indignation about SK/K though. Ludicrous.

I really want Deanna and Nate to stay together and get better programs next season. Deanna can sell anything but it would be a lot better if she didn't have to try quite so hard.

 

[ross_hy]

I wonder if part of the reason for leaving Alexa & Chris on the alternate lists is to send a message to international judges: "We haven't given up on them yet, neither should you."

The biggest puzzler for me is that Lu/Mitrofanov aren't going to Junior Worlds, especially since they're not on the alternates lists for 4CC.

 

[Sylvia]

The biggest puzzler for me is that Lu/Mitrofanov aren't going to Junior Worlds, especially since they're not on the alternates lists for 4CC.

Because Misha Mitrofanov aged out this season.

 

[AYS]

I wonder if part of the reason for leaving Alexa & Chris on the alternate lists is to send a message to international judges: "We haven't given up on them yet, neither should you."

The biggest puzzler for me is that Lu/Mitrofanov aren't going to Junior Worlds, especially since they're not on the alternates lists for 4CC.

Mitrofanov is too old for Junior Worlds.

 

[wickedwitch]

I wonder if part of the reason for leaving Alexa & Chris on the alternate lists is to send a message to international judges: "We haven't given up on them yet, neither should you."

Or they could just admit that they're having season ending surgery. Nobody would think the USFSA are giving up on S-K/K in that case.

 

[kwanfan1818]

4CC results don’t have much an impact on next year’s results, so sending Haven and Brandon there is fine.

4C's is worth championship WS points, which impacts start orders at GP and championships, and the difference between skating in the first half and the second half of championships can have a great impact.

What I think is worst about naming the Knierims to the first (ETA: second, see Sylvia's correction below) alternates spot is that the health of his wrist and the mobility in his wrist and hand is critical to what he does with the rest of his life: car restoration. Not only does having to train for the next two months put off the surgery, but it also compresses the healing time before next season.

There were comments in the Pairs threads about how the Knierims should take a long beach vacation and think about what they want to do. If this is UFSF's attempt to keep them from assessing and concluding that maybe it's not skating, at least for the time being, .

This isn't Russia or China where they're paying for teams at that level and decide to invest their money elsewhere. Envelope money is a drop in the bucket. I'd be doing the math if I were one of the seasoned teams kicked to the side.

 

[Sylvia]

What I think is worst about naming the Knierims to the first alternates spot

The Knierims are the second alternates to 4CC & Worlds. If they officially inform USFS that Chris may need wrist surgery and/or they will be unable to train for Worlds properly for any reason, then I assume they can and will be replaced on the alternates list.

 

[Karen-W]

Making the Kneirems alternates to either the 4CCs or Worlds teams is ridiculous! If the injury was as bad as they made it seem "scheduling surgery immediately" then the USFSA has no business putting them down as alternates, no matter how remote the possibility is of needing them for either. The alternative is that the injury isn't nearly as bad as they made out after their disastrous skates this week and they were playing all of us for sympathy yesterday. At this point, I'm not sure which scenario I believe to be more likely.

There is a lot to be positive about with respect to the future of US Pairs, but there's an awful lot that is still concerning - sending any sort of "please, stick around another season" message to the Knierems is pretty high on that list, IMO. There's a lot any fan of US Pairs can (and has to) forgive but I don't think the USFSA repeatedly giving the Knierems chance after chance to implode at major competitions should be forgiven or forgotten.

I'm a little less baffled or miffed by the decision to make K/O the first alternates for Worlds. The USFSA is sending a clear message to D/F that they need stronger SBS jumps, and they're not wrong. Just look at the depth of pairs skating internationally - the question in the Pairs FP thread is "are C/L capable of getting 2 spots back" and the consensus is they're capable and will probably slot in somewhere between 8th and 10th, but if they have a poor competition or some of the other really talented teams have superb competitions they could finish as low as 14th. Where do you think D/F are going to place without SBS triples? Certainly not top ten. This isn't about forgiving and forgetting 2017 so much as it is accepting that the SBS triples are necessary to even get the door opened for your team to be in the top ten conversation. D/F should be happy to have the 4CCs slot and the WS points that come with it.

As far as S-D/B are concerned - it's been pretty obvious to anyone who paid any attention to the fall competitions (both GP and Challenger/Sr Bs) that they're not at the same level as C/L, K/O or even the Knierems. As many have pointed out - they do skate smaller and aren't quite as refined/finished in their elements as those three teams already mentioned or D/F. The one thing they have going in their favor are stronger SBS jumps than D/F, so I get why they're 3rd alternates for Worlds rather than D/F. Should they have been given the 3rd 4CCs spot over K/O? Probably, if you're going purely on yesterday's results alone. But, the USFSA has been clear that BOW counts and K/O have a GP series medal from the fall not to mention winning 4CCs last year.

We should be more upset that Lu/Mitrofanov weren't named as 3rd alternates to 4CCs than we are over S-D/B being 3rd alternates to Worlds. Granted, most 3rd alternates to 4CCs or Worlds don't wind up going but the fact that the USFSA slotted the Knierems in as alternates when they announced that Chris is injured and needs surgery is the real "WTF are they thinking?" question. L/M nearly beat Calalang/Johnson and both teams were a good ten points ahead of the injured Knierems (and L/M and C/J beat the Ks in both segments). I was impressed with the improvement (mostly from her) in the SP at Nationals compared to the fall. Plus they landed their SBS triples. The Knierems shouldn't have been in the conversation for any alternate spots.

 

[Frau Muller]

Do the Knierems have an agent? Remember, this is business and certain things are agreed ahead of time.

 

[acraven]

I am told that the problem with Kayne/O'Shea's aborted lift was that his hand got caught up in her costume. It was obvious to some folks from the Jumbotron video.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The Knierims are the second alternates to 4CC & Worlds.

Thank you for the correction, @Sylvia.

They're still obligated to be ready, which is the issue, more than having to compete. If they were called up, USFS shouldn't expect a repeat of Max Aaron coming back and helping to retain three spots for US Men. I assume the USFS selections are with the goal to get back a second Pairs spot.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I am told that the problem with Kayne/O'Shea's aborted lift was that his hand got caught up in her costume. It was obvious to some folks from the Jumbotron video.

Oh if that's true that explains things. Usually Danny is so secure on lifts. Dang those wardrobe problems,..

 

[PairSkater12345]

Tarah and Danny got the "reward for skating poorly" award and will be 1st alternates for Worlds and going to 4CC. Deanna and Nate got the "we don't care how well you did award" and will be staying home

WORLDS Ashley and Tim

4CCs Ashley and Tim
Haven and Brandon
Tarah and Danny

And the BEST part. Alternate two for 4CCs is the Knerim's…. "Married couple points award" I guess!

Politics at it's finest at work (and we wonder why we don't do well internationally... Knerim's skated injured put on a skate that was horrid, even they admitted the scores were 'gifted', he's suppose to have surgery but... We make them an alternate for an even next month! Guess USFSA doesn't think the wrist really needs help?? LOL!)

Sorry I don't agree with your comment about "K/O skating poorly".....that's simply not true. K/O was first after the short. They were going into their last element (probably the most difficult lift at the championships) made one big mistake that I have never seen them do. Yea that's right lost the whole lift element because he had to put her down. Sorry that's not skating poorly that's one mistake.

 

[jiejie]

If this was the press release that was on the USFS website, it's disappeared. Been taken away.

 

[Sylvia]

If this was the press release that was on the USFS website, it's disappeared. Been taken away.

That link never worked/is still broken. The original press release was cross-posted in USFS Fan Zone and the link is in my post #182 above.

 

[wickedwitch]

Unsurprisingly, S/B and their team are not happy with the 4CC selections:

“We skated our hearts out this week and performed our best two programs of the year,” said Jim Peterson, who coaches Stellato and Bartholomay, to NBCSports.com/figure-skating. “We are disappointed, what can I say? We are the U.S. bronze medalists. We defeated Kayne and O’Shea at nationals.”

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...s-four-continents-selection-snub-stuns-coach/

 

[jiejie]

That link never worked/is still broken. The original press release was cross-posted in USFS Fan Zone and the link is in my post #182 above.

Thanks Sylvia. The ladies's announcement is still there and working though.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I do think there is a strong argument to be made for K/O over S/B as world's alternates (and I say this as more of a fan of S/B): a GP silver carries a lot of weight, as does being defending 4CC champs, and if they do ok, they have more potential to finish high at worlds. In addition, they won the sp and were well on their way to probably winning or at worst, second here, but for one freak mistake. I wouldn't characterize what they did at Nationals as "skating poorly". All that said, I'm less on board with the 4CCs decision. There's less on the line there and I think S/B deserve that reward for their Nationals bronze and pretty good Challenger event performances. But again, it's the same selection criteria and K/O are defending champs...

I have mixed feelings about the Knierims' situation. There are arguments to be made for getting bumped up, decent results on paper including a GP medal of their own this season, but they've clearly been struggling and this nationals was an absolute disaster. If he was/is injured, they should have taken the time to get it taken care of and start fresh next season.

The logic behind selecting international teams is so nuts, it wouldn't have surprised me if US Skating had asked Ross Miner and Heidi Munger to team up and compete at Four Continents.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Ive been thinking while I was in the #TTW thread... maybe K&O got 4 CC because...

1. They are the defending 4CC Champions
2. They won the SP
3. They see the botched lift in Free as a fluke
4. They had the highest color of medal (silver) at a GP event........

5. International photographers want Danny in Anaheim because he is so handsome.