Vanessa James | Morgan Cipres

That's Alanis Morissette isn't it? A dance version of that track was produced by the Freemasons around 10 years ago, I wonder if they will use any of that or stick to the original?
 
^^ A very good program with room to grow, and it's quite impactful and interesting to watch already. Vanessa et Morgan are such a dynamic team! I'm so glad they decided to continue competing and exploring further growth. I really enjoy watching them skate together.

And how wonderful that this program was choreographed by Guillaume Cizeron! Kudos! I really look forward to seeing this program grow and prosper further over the course of the season. And the judges will need to come up off trying to keep V&J in a specific range to control their placements. Yeah, I call that out already. J/C's score for this program is good for this early in the season, and they do deserve to be credited to this level and higher for their difficult transitions and improved flow over the ice, especially after the lowballing they received at the hands of the judges in the early part of last season.
 
cocotaffy said:
Here is their new SP to Uninvited. I like it, it needs to grow of course but there is a new softness about their gliding which is particularly obvious at the beginning of the SP.
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Thank you for the link! That's a really nice program, and looking great for this early in the season. I love that they're still pushing themselves to do more and try harder things.

Can't wait to see their free skate now! :cheer2:
 
I’ve never enjoyed a J/C program as much as I do their new SP! Wow! Gorgeous moves & music; not overly trying to be edgie-toughie. Love it!
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Is this choreographed by John?
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No, as noted. And which John were you referencing anyway: Kerr or Zimmerman? ;) John Kerr did not work on either of J/C's programs this season. But perhaps he will work with J/C again in the future. Kerr has been in some demand, and he's been working with a number of other skaters this season, including the U.S. junior team, Feng/Nyman, and Italy's Della Monica/Guarise (in collaboration with Raffaella Cazzaniga).

Miloune said:
No it has been choreographed by Guillaume Cizeron! ...
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Yep, as I too mentioned in my post #215: Kudos to Guillaume for choreographing this lovely sp for Vanessa et Morgan! Snippets of the opening moves were posted on V's Instagram during the off-season, featuring her and Guillaume (checkout posts #211 and #212 in this thread)... It's definitely not easy keeping up with all the new details of skaters' programs, but Guillaume as J/C's sp choreographer was already announced awhile ago.

Also announced awhile back: Charlie White choreographed J/C's fp to an as yet unidentified version of Wicked Games. Charlie also worked on both of Denney/Frazier's programs this season. D/F are J/C's new training mates.

It pays to check out the Program information spreadsheets in GSD, so generously compiled by @clairecloutier and @Sylvia! Gracias!
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...formation-event-schedule-spreadsheets.103879/
 
And here is their LP to Wicked Games Couple of bobbles and an unintentionally funny ending but a strong start to the season. I'm not gonna lie, I don't like their LP as much as their SP. SP was an instant hit for me partly because I love Uninvited but mainly the choreography fits the song so perfectly and they look like they move differently whereas the LP doesn't offer such a fresh perspective on their skating.
Also thanks to @Enchanted here is an interesting interview on the SP creative process with Guillaume.
 
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cocotaffy said:
I'm not gonna lie, I don't like their LP as much as their SP.
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Funny but I felt the complete opposite. First I will say that they obviously found their brand and they will stick with it since it suits them so well. The SP felt like the same SP they've been doing for the past two seasons, mostly in how it feels and in terms of choreography, at first I thought John Kerr choreographed it since it 's similar to what they've done before but turns out it was Cizeron and while it's a good choreography debut for him (for other skaters at least) it left me wanting more. The FP on the other hand had some amazing transitions and choreographic moments (the entry to the 3S is amazing) and when they'll smooth things out and feel more comfortable with it I think it can be a really strong program. Charlie White did a really good job with it imo.
Do you think they have the best jumps in the pairs field?
 
cocotaffy said:
And here is their LP to Wicked Games Couple of bobbles and an unintentionally funny ending but a strong start to the season. I'm not gonna lie, I don't like their LP as much as their SP. SP was an instant hit for me partly because I love Uninvited but mainly the choreography fits the song so perfectly and they look like they move differently whereas the LP doesn't offer such a fresh perspective on their skating.
Also thanks to @Enchanted here is an interesting interview on the SP creative process with Guillaume.
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I'm not gonna compare between the two programs done by different choreographers. I think both programs highlight J/C's strengths. And both programs are dynamic and beautifully skated, and both programs should build in power and precision over the course of the season. Both programs were choreographed by ice dancers who are in the early stages of their choreographic careers too. My gosh, the difficult entries, exits and transitions throughout their programs, along with difficult lifts, and J/C's always intense and charismatic connection. Of course, there's still room for improvement, but I sense the judges still trying to keep J/C within a certain range. I will call it out when/if I see any unfairness. J/C are so exciting to watch. Petty naysayers (in general -- not you @cocotaffy) can just go fug themselves. Keep rockin' it J/C. Stay positive and connected to your power and your magic.

J/C are definitely an impactful and influential pair team. I think it's quite clear that their transformational success under JZ and crew has inspired many skaters, pairs and singles alike. It's nice seeing other French skaters heading to Florida and doing well there along with J/C. Kudos to Meite winning bronze at AC. I didn't know she had moved to John Z along with Kevin Aymoz.
 
Put me down as a fan of both programs! While they have a few similarities as a result of both being choreographed by ice dancers, I think they each have a distinct tone of their own and are going to develop in different ways over the course of the season. In particular, the SP looks to me to be playing on their trademark powerful presence and rough edges, while the FS transmutes those to something equally strong but more flowing, and then even at times almost fragile. There's a moment I saw both in the practice skate last night and in the video this morning, quite early in the program, where they reach out their hands to each other while skating side by side and you expect them to join hands, but instead they just barely brush fingertips and then slip apart again, and it's clearly deliberate but also unexpected and surprisingly powerful, and that's the image that's stayed with me to encapsulate the program. It's very much the opposite of the SP where the images that stay with me are ones of connection instead.
 
I definitely see it will grow but I agree with @AngieNikodinovLove about the dreary music though. However the transitions are indeed fantastic and difficult which is a great highlight for me. They were right to go seek for different inputs especially outside the pairs' world à la Savchenko/massot who really worked hard to glide like ice dancers. I already can see a difference in their gliding more in the SP probably because the transitions are crazy hard in the LP and it's just a longer program. So as @aftershocks said kudos to both choreographers. And naysayers, well there'll always be some, too bad for them. They can shoot high this year :cheer2:
 
I liked this LP! Yeah not a fan of the cover but they didn't fail to keep me attentive the whole way through! I think their physicality is very unique. You go J/C!!
 
cocotaffy said:
They were right to go seek for different inputs especially outside the pairs' world à la Savchenko/massot who really worked hard to glide like ice dancers
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They've been doing that for a while now - their programs in the past two seasons were choreographed by John Kerr (former british ice dancer) who also did Savchenko/Massot programs in 2016/17. If anything I give a lot of credit to John Kerr (And Silvia fontana who choreographs with him) for really bringing to live this change in pairs programs (same goes for Lori Nichol's work with Sui/Han who talked a lot in the past about wanting programs that look more like dance programs).
 
Frau Muller said:
Vanessa just needs some real costumes and stop wearing plain black practice outfits in competition.
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The catsuit she wore for the SP might not be the final costume, but as she posted on her instagram, it was specially made for her for the start of this season, and the one for the FS was her Sound of Silence costume from the Olympics. No practice outfits here!
 
Orm Irian said:
The catsuit she wore for the SP might not be the final costume, but as she posted on her instagram, it was specially made for her for the start of this season, and the one for the FS was her Sound of Silence costume from the Olympics. No practice outfits here!
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My point: They sure LOOK like boring practice unitards.
 
angi said:
They've been doing that for a while now - their programs in the past two seasons were choreographed by John Kerr (former british ice dancer) who also did Savchenko/Massot programs in 2016/17. If anything I give a lot of credit to John Kerr (And Silvia fontana who choreographs with him) for really bringing to live this change in pairs programs (same goes for Lori Nichol's work with Sui/Han who talked a lot in the past about wanting programs that look more like dance programs).
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Absolutely, but it finally shows big time for them. Their skating is getting smoother and after rewatching the SP they really worked on tiny details like hand and arm movements spot on with the music like this one. I know it's a ridiculously small movement from him but executed with the right intensity at exactly the right moment. Even though they've had tremendous program before, especially Sound of Silence, somehow I've never notice them, especially him, highlighting every nuance of the music so well before. But it might just be me noticing stuff they were already doing or my FS deprived mind which starts inventing thing just out of sheer happiness the skating drought is over :shuffle: :D
 
^^ Very true, but it's important to point out as John Z himself has noted: When V&M came to train with him, he knew they were already an experienced and talented team. Maybe the key is that Vanessa saw something in John Z that she felt resonated with what she and Morgan were desperately trying to find. In Florida, they discovered the missing pieces of the puzzle and everything fell into place rather quickly.

John Z has said in interviews that at first he didn't try to make many changes, he just tried to enhance the strengths J/C already possessed. Plus John Z and Silvia F are also very much about teamwork and communication and working on the psychological and emotional connection between a pair. In working out these details, nothing is blocked or gnarly with their dynamic when they are out on the ice performing. Obviously, John and Silvia are also helping their singles skaters bring their emotions and motivations to the ice, which apparently breeds confidence. And we can't forget how much Jeremy Barrett and John Kerr have been an essential part of the team that helped Vanessa and Morgan access and fully bring forth the magic they already possessed. Finding the right music has been essential. And then the fine-tuning and further polishing has been coming to the fore as well. But I'm sure J/C know that all they experienced previously and the coaches who they worked with through all their ups-and-downs also played a role in them getting to where they are now.

If you look back at old videos, you will see that J/C were very good from the moment they first paired. They were just very raw and rough around the edges, but their connection, charisma and athletic talent was there from day one. It only needed to be fully developed and honed. Morgan was a singles skater who was able to become a competent and confident pairs skater very quickly. The hot connection between J/C was always present and unmistakeable.

cocotaffy said:
Also thanks to @Enchanted here is an interesting interview on the SP creative process with Guillaume
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Wow, Guillaume came prepared. He'd mapped out J/C's movements, and he created new patterns for the element placements that went with the music. And he cut the music, and he designed a sp costume for Vanessa, which will be unveiled later this season. This for free for his friends, all the while preparing and training for his own new season. As Bev Smith writes: "Is there anything Guillaume can't do in skating?" :encore:
 
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Frau Muller said:
Vanessa just needs some real costumes and stop wearing plain black practice outfits in competition.
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:confused:

IDK what outfits you refer to. But IMO Vanessa is among the most fashionable lady skaters and I'm sure she has works with someone in coutoure. The backs of her costumes often have interesting designs with strips and buckles and such.

I can't imagine that she would ever be dressed poorly, not even for practice.
 
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Japanfan said:
:confused:

IDK what outfits you refer to. But IMO Vanessa is among the most fashionable lady skaters and I'm sure she has works with someone in coutour. The backs of her costumes often have interesting designs with strips and buckles and such.

I can't imagine that she would ever be dressed poorly, not even for practice.
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Right, I def would not term V's sexy, smokin' unitards 'plain practice outfits.' :lol:


Here are some cool Julie Wie J/C montage videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-8vzX3fJ_8 Try (Pink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxbjctEZhmM Only Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W47AGijhhZY Parachute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAU8o_nmIsw I Won't Let You Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwx97nREJH8 The Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFLpgpQ4Ik 1st da Jemand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk1I4mRpz_c A New Day Has Come

by xixi Ackerman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFzAGdJOOs A Thousand Years
 
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