Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[overedge]

When has skating *not* been a micromanaged sport?

 

[Bellanca]

The GPF is usually expendable and dismissed until it is needed to justify an Oly team spot.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Gotcha. Your original post seem to relate it just to skating, as you said "now we have a micromanaged sport." To play devil's advocate, despite her success this past weekend and at Skate America, I guarantee you 98% of America has no clue who Bradie Tennell is. According to http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-friday-jan-5-2018/, less than 5 million Americans watched her win on Friday night.

If only they knew she didn't get her first haircut until the age of 13, imagine how much higher that number would be!!!

 

[caseyedwards]

How do you know that's how the team was decided?



I can't believe you're still saying how unfair the whole thing was, while arguing that one criterion should be applied to some skaters but not to others. So why is that fair?

When Brennan wrote Miner lost 11-1 and then rippon was placed on the team It makes it seem rippon replaced Miner.

 

[overedge]

When Brennan wrote Miner lost 11-1 and then rippon was placed on the team It makes it seem rippon replaced Miner.

One published report is not reliable evidence, and neither is your own interpretation/explanation of that report.

 

[DreamSkates]

Then perhaps they should have only let the men who meet this standard compete. It would have been a competition of only 5-6 men but at least the other men would have saved a lot time, emotional energy and money (most of these people aren't close to rich). Why have men like Ross compete at all if they never had a chance?

Just skip Nationals, then, and send Chen. No one else comes close to his scores and are not likely to medal.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If you are asserting things have changed, give us an example of an American skater who won an Olympic medal who was "little-known".

Ironically, Paul Wylie in 1992, who really should not have been on the Olympic Team, given how he skated at the US Championships preceding it.

 

[Lanie]

Miner didn't need to be perfect all other times, but maybe post some high scores internationally...I dunno, just once even?? Just one time would have helped his case. Instead, his wonderful Nationals program looks like an emotional fluke (perhaps his last Nationals appearance?) rather than an indication of how he typically competes or even practices.

Considering Ross is second alternate they wouldn’t budge even had he a slightly better season. It’s clear they were set on the team they wanted and would get it.

 

[Bellanca]

When has skating *not* been a micromanaged sport?

There was a time, a time when Ross would have been going to the Olympics. This is no longer the case. Times have changed - and I would not necessarily call it positive change or progress, more like dispiriting, tbh. Oh, well... It is what it is, for now.

 

[jlai]

Considering Ross is second alternate they wouldn’t budge even had he a slightly better season. It’s clear they were set on the team they wanted and would get it.

How do you know? Brown was a favorite and he isn't on the team. Bradie wasn't a darling six months ago but two good competitions set the USFS community buzzing. Had Miner earned some medals and with a silver it would have even harder to bump him.
Before nationals there were the top five and there is every one else with no bow.
Bradie wasn't mentioned at the beginning but she changed the fed's mind herself.

I am thinking those who are upset want nationals to be the o trial again? If so that conversation is six months too late

 

[becca]

Sigh it is applying to all skaters when I say I would consider body of work for someone of Chens caliber. I think Nationals is a big deal. I think it is difficult to go with GP because not everyone competes same conditions.

I supported Ashley going in 2014. She had multiple too 5 finishes at World. Multiple and recent GPF Medal wins and an outside shot at a medal.

I don't think Any other man fits that criteria. I am uncomfortable with just two GP medals being enough. You dont want skaters peaking at Skate America. And I think it gets very subjective.

I think replacing Nationals medalists should be the exception not the rule.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If only they knew she didn't get her first haircut until the age of 13, imagine how much higher that number would be!!!

Next, we'll find out Bradie may or may not have lived on Reunion Island.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I, too, wish that USFS had been more explicit about using international scores to weight the Body of Work. I think that scores are a legitimate way to determine the odds of skaters/teams meeting the stated objective, which is results/medal count, especially in determining consistency and scores from international judges. The other thing is starting order for the SP in the Olympics:

• Zhou is currently 16th among Men going to the Olympics. (Above him in WS are: Hanyu, Uno, Fernandez, Kolyada, Chen, Jin, Chan, Bychenko, Rippon, one of Samarin or Aliev, Hendrickx, Ge, Vasiljevs, Tanaka, Samohin). There will be at least five men currently below him who will earn (incremental or full) points at 4C's and Euros and surpass him, so in any case, Zhou will be skating in the earlier half, and he has a 6/15 chance of skating in the first group.)
• Rippon is currently 9th among Men going to the Olympics. He could be passed by Samarin and Aliev through incremental points at Euros, but I think it's out of reach for Hendrickx and Ge, and I think he'll end up 11th, 10th, skating in the penultimate SP group.
• Miner would have skated in the earlier group.
• Chen is 5th; the only person who could pass him mathematically before the Olympics is Brown with a podium finish at 4C's, because Brown has only one championship score and will earn full points. (4th would place Brown one WS point below Chen.)

In this case, Rippon has the clear advantage over Zhou and Miner. Zhou's SB SP is 8+ points higher than Miner's and at a GP vs. a CS event, which gives him the potential advantage for moving to after the ice break for the free, although there are more than a score of Olympic-bound skaters whose SP SB so far this year surpasses Zhou's.

For Ladies:

• Nagasu is currently 5th among Ladies going to the Olympics. She is vulnerable to being bumped to the penultimate group by Kostner, who gets full points with only one championship score, and who needs 17th or higher at Euros, Tursynbaeva who would pass her with a 4th at 4C's, and Zagitova, who will pass her with 8th or above at Euros. Nagasu needs four Ladies to beat Tursynbaeva at 4C's. Choi is too far behind to catch up.
• Chen and Wagner are in the same boat as Nagasu, but for a place in the penultimate starting group. Perversely, were Wagner to go to 4C's and win, and then become the alternate for Chen, she'd surpass Nagasu.
• Tennell will be skating in the earlier group.

However, I don't think the numbers mean the same thing in every situation, and certainly not the same for Olympics and Worlds. For the Olympics, the Team Event is the difference -- aside from Pairs having one less spot for the OWG, which is a low-odds situation and not possible mathematically in Singles -- and at Worlds, earning three spots is the difference.

For example, the odds of any US Man but Chen earning an individual medal are not great, so for the Olympics, total score should not the most important factor: IMO, it should be more like gymnastics, in that an athlete can have a role in a specific event, where someone who is a great short or free performer could play that role in the TE, even if they would score lower in the individual event. I still think that if Wagner had skated well in her GP SP's, even with a WD from Skate America, she'd be on the Olympic team to skate the SP in the TE. If there were three medal contenders in Men, then total score, especially when average or top is a large % higher than another man on the Nationals podium, should be more important.

For Worlds, total score is much more important, too, unless one skater's SP score would sink them and the scores weren't so far apart, which makes Zhou, Rippon, or Brown more likely to help the US retain three spots than Miner.

Again, though, I don't see how the TE is made stronger by choosing Zhou over Miner, since Rippon and Zhou are so close international PB-wise in their stronger segment, the FS, unless Chen doesn't compete in the TE, because Miner would have been the odd man out for the TE, had any other two men skated.

 

[Skittl1321]

Then perhaps they should have only let the men who meet this standard compete. It would have been a competition of only 5-6 men but at least the other men would have saved a lot time, emotional energy and money (most of these people aren't close to rich). Why have men like Ross compete at all if they never had a chance?

(emphasis mine).

Ross got a silver medal. He competed at the national championship, and won a place on the national podium.
He was awarded exactly what the competition promised.

Despite being possible contenders for the Olympic spots, Jason didn't get a national medal, Max didn't get a national medal. Ross did.

 

[ks777]

(emphasis mine).

Ross got a silver medal. He competed at the national championship, and won a place on the national podium.
He was awarded exactly what the competition promised.

Despite being possible contenders for the Olympic spots, Jason didn't get a national medal, Max didn't get a national medal. Ross did.

But Ross was not awarded for a spot on the world team. The world's team is determined at the National every year, and usually the top 3 are selected. I didn't know winning a silver at Nationals wasn't enough for a world team. That's why I am mainly pissed.

 

[overedge]

Sigh it is applying to all skaters when I say I would consider body of work for someone of Chens caliber.

As soon as you say "for someone of Chen's caliber" that is not applying it to all skaters.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This weekend has clearly damaged Johnny's fashion sense, too.

 

[NAOTMAA]

But Ross was not awarded for a spot on the world team. The world's team is determined at the National every year, and usually the top 3 are selected. I didn't know winning a silver at Nationals wasn't enough for a world team. That's why I am mainly pissed.

Apparently that's the old way of thinking. Yes it's main function use to be all about who gets to go to Olympics/words but now its apparently just another ordinary competition. You get a medal but that's all, nothing else. Although for some reason they still called it the "Olympic trials." It's perfectly okay to fail at this trial as long as you do best internationally

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

As soon as you say "for someone of Chen's caliber" that is not applying it to all skaters.

For a moment I thought you typed, "for someone of Cher's caliber'.

No one is remotely in the same league as the former Mrs Sonny Bono.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Apparently that's the old way of thinking. Yes it's main function use to be all about who gets to go to Olympics/words but now its apparently just another ordinary competition. You get a medal but that's all, nothing else. Although for some reason they still called it the "Olympic trials"

I hear men's silver medals come with every purchase of a box of Wheeties now.

 

[bardtoob]

I didn't know winning a silver at Nationals wasn't enough for a world team.

The US National Figure Skating Championships is a neutered load of BS. The only function of the event is to show American skaters on TV. It has nothing to do with the World Team now.

Of course, there never was a "US Figure Skating Olympic Trials" because then the USOC would get the money for the event due to owning "Olympic Trials", not USFSA. End of story, explained to me by a former USFSA office holder. This used to be the only reason USFSA had a selection committee for at least one spot.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If you are asserting things have changed, give us an example of an American skater who won an Olympic medal who was "little-known".

Not the OP, but I would say Wylie. He had been to Worlds once before, so he wasn't completely unknown, but he was hardly considered a contender for an Olympic medal.

I can't believe you're still saying how unfair the whole thing was, while arguing that one criterion should be applied to some skaters but not to others. How is that fair?

I think there are legitimate reasons to use different criteria. Byes, by definition, use different criteria, whether qualifying byes or medical byes. I think it's perfectly legitimate to say that if the skater/team accomplished XYZ in certain competitions, that gives additional weight to the decision, whether the skater/team was sick, injured, or sub-par for another reason. I think that there are skaters and teams who, based on their past results, should get extra consideration. I don't think there was ever any question that Savchenko/Massot were going to be on the Olympic team had they were one competition short or had to miss Nationals, just as there's little question that Medvedeva is going to the Olympics if she's healthy.

I think it's important to list the things that are considered; for example, former Olympic medalists (team or individual) don't have to go through US qualifying to skate at Nationals.

There were jokes about using ten competitions to determine the National team, but it was pretty exciting to follow the German selections, in which the best three scores from specific types of competitions were used. Every time there was another competition, there was a chance that the standings would flip. Germany didn't have enough skaters at the top for WS and starting order to be taken into the equation, but I'd love to see a system where a combination of a fixed number of scores, even if weighted (ex: GP=.9, Euros/4C's=1, CS=.8, Sr. B=.7), plus ranking ran through the year were tracked and then Nationals results were added.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I hear men's silver medals come with every purchase of a box of Wheeties now.

no I think its just the mini-wheats now (and not even the frosted ones). It use to be but no more

 

[overedge]

@kwanfan1818 There are legitimate criteria to use in different situations, and I agree that medical byes are one of them. But things like medical byes can be applied fairly across the board, so to speak. @becca 's "body of work for some skaters but not others" is not in that category.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

no I think its just the mini-wheats now (and not even the frosted ones). It use to be but no more

Of course, they put those on the very top shelf of the cereal lane at Safeway. Just out of reach, too.

 

[Bellanca]

This weekend has clearly damaged Johnny's fashion sense, too.

Also, adding to this weekend's colorful chaos was the suggestion that being interviewed by Andrea Joyce was like a hammer to the head according to one skater via a . I can only imagine!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Also, adding to this weekend's colorful chaos was the suggestion that being interviewed by Andrea Joyce was like a hammer to the head according to one skater via a . I can only imagine!

Andrea Joyce interviews are like that scene from the movie, Frances with Jessica Lange, where one of the doctors says, "Lobotomy gets 'em home'.

 

[jlai]

Apparently that's the old way of thinking. Yes it's main function use to be all about who gets to go to Olympics/words but now its apparently just another ordinary competition. You get a medal but that's all, nothing else. Although for some reason they still called it the "Olympic trials." It's perfectly okay to fail at this trial as long as you do best internationally

It never was the Olympic trial for reasons discussed as nauseum long before the Miner controversy

 

[once_upon]

(emphasis mine).

Ross got a silver medal. He competed at the national championship, and won a place on the national podium.
He was awarded exactly what the competition promised.

Despite being possible contenders for the Olympic spots, Jason didn't get a national medal, Max didn't get a national medal. Ross did.

This.
For people who hand wring every skating season about maintaining or recovering spots for the Worlds and Olympics, this seems to be a big hyprocrisy. Either we have strategies for spots or we don't.

If you (they) don't care about spots then ok...I see your point. But if you are someone whining about spots, then you need to rethink the USFS criteria as valid.

I get that Ross is well liked and respected. I get that, I like him too. I wished he had been named first alternate and to the Worlds team. But this is a game of strategy to get those damn spots. Those damn spots you all talk about every single season.

 

[kwanfan1818]

@kwanfan1818 There are legitimate criteria to use in different situations, and I agree that medical byes are one of them. But things like medical byes can be applied fairly across the board, so to speak. @becca 's "body of work for some skaters but not others" is not in that category.

I still think this is legitimate: if a skater is a world medalist the year before, or a GPF medalist, or is in the Top 5 in the ISU SB list for the current season, or has averaged a certain score in ISU competitions in the current season, or whatever the pre-defined criteria are, then I think it's perfectly legitimate to say that their body of work, ie, past results should be taken into consideration.