The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[lauravvv]

Thoughts on Russian Nationals:
I think the most interesting battle is the one for 4-6th. Not sure what to expect.

Program/choreography/presentation-wise, I like Popova & Mozgov's Carmen the best. It's an ace in their favor, but I don't know if their technical mark holds up. They have had the most directly upward trajectory this season so their momentum is good.

We can never know about pattern and step sequence levels, but their lifts, twizzles and spin are usually strong - no real reason to mark them down there, especially at Nationals. And they can get good PCS, especially for choreography (as you said), performance and also interpretation. I just hope I haven't jinxed then now, and they won't have some unexpected disaster with twizzles or a lift .

 

[Dobre]

We can never know about pattern and step sequence levels, but their lifts, twizzles and spin are usually strong - no real reason to mark them down there, especially at Nationals. And they can get good PCS, especially for choreography (as you said), performance and also interpretation. I just hope I haven't jinxed then now, and they won't have some unexpected disaster with twizzles or a lift.

Level 1 rhumba for Popova & Mozgov at Warsaw Cup and Finlandia. And her step sequences have always been a question mark. That's my concern technically. If they get the rhumba--even if they are behind in the SD--I would really watch out for them in the FD. If they don't get the rhumba at all, that's a whole bunch of points. (Callers at Warsaw & Finlandia were pretty tough on the pattern. My guess is that P&M can pull at least a level 3 at Nationals).

 

[clairecloutier]

Article from Phil Hersh confirms that the Belarusian judge at Golden Spin is under investigation by the ISU:
http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/12/19/figure-skating-judge-ethics-investigation

 

[VGThuy]

Article from Phil Hersh confirms that the Belarusian judge at Golden Spin is under investigation by the ISU:
http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/12/19/figure-skating-judge-ethics-investigation

Is this the most Phil Hersh has paid attention to ice dance? It started out with Tessa Virtue's earrings, and now he has video of suspect behavior by the Belarusian judge.

I have a feeling we've only hit the beginning here.

 

[Anyasnake]

Article from Phil Hersh confirms that the Belarusian judge at Golden Spin is under investigation by the ISU:
http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/12/19/figure-skating-judge-ethics-investigation

I just saw that. I wonder if the Spanish fed is going to react to that, because if scores come to be invalidated, that would be a mess, whatever the outcome is.

 

[chapis]

Is this the most Phil Hersh has paid attention to ice dance? It started out with Tessa Virtue's earrings, and now he has video of suspect behavior by the Belarusian judge.

I have a feeling we've only hit the beginning here.

but this video is proof of something?, I mean, I know that they are investigating the situation but if they only have this video, I think it does not mean anything. In Mexico we have a politician with a video where he is receiving a briefcase full of money and you can hear the conversation about being a bribe and his lawyers ¨proved ¨ he was innocent .

 

[VGThuy]

The video doesn't prove anything by itself, but it does show he was exhibiting some behavior that should at least be questioned. Who knows what will come out of that? However, I do know judges aren't allowed to communicate with one another or look at another judge's screen during competition and especially during scoring. It looks like the Belarusian judge may have been doing that. Sure, a great defense attorney or a smart person can explain those things away, but you know where there's smoke...also, people, when questioned, tend to blab more than what they intend. Plus, H/K's coach (not Zhulin, the other one) getting mad that a judge who found the Belarusian judge's behavior suspect was filming him all taken together seems suspect.

I just wonder if other ice dance-related deals will be exposed with this. I know that seems far-fetched but we all know games are being played right now.

 

[chapis]

Is this the most Phil Hersh has paid attention to ice dance? It started out with Tessa Virtue's earrings, and now he has video of suspect behavior by the Belarusian judge.

I have a feeling we've only hit the beginning here.

Honestly, Phil´s behavior is even more suspicious than the behavior of judge BR. I wonder if someone is behind him.

 

[Dobre]

Article from Phil Hersh confirms that the Belarusian judge at Golden Spin is under investigation by the ISU:
http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/12/19/figure-skating-judge-ethics-investigation

It's a perfectly decent article. The "theater-of the absurd" comment is journalistic license, but he doesn't speculate. At least we now have information about what they really know.

Plus, H/K's coach (not Zhulin, the other one) getting mad that a judge who found the Belarusian judge's behavior suspect was filming him all taken together seems suspect.

It doesn't name the coach who complained. Nor does it mention the Spanish dance teams. It mentions the Parsons, whom no one was speculating about at all.

Far better to have real information than speculation or rumors. The most dramatic scenario is not necessarily the accurate one. It's the one most likely to spread via rumor.

I think you like the drama.

As you said, there's a rule against communication & if they feel the video--and possibly others' observations--is evidence of the attempt to do so, that could be enough to suspend the judge. They don't have to speculate.

Judges have to be their own people on the panel. We don't need clones.

 

[VGThuy]

It's a perfectly decent article. The "theater-of the absurd" comment is journalistic license, but he doesn't speculate. At least we now have information about what they really know.



It doesn't name the coach who complained. Nor does it mention the Spanish dance teams. It mentions the Parsons, whom no one was speculating about at all.

Far better to have real information than speculation or rumors. The most dramatic scenario is not necessarily the accurate one. It's the one most likely to spread via rumor.

I think you like the drama.

As you said, there's a rule against communication & if they feel the video--and possibly others' observations--is evidence of the attempt to do so, that could be enough to suspend the judge. They don't have to speculate.

Judges have to be their own people on the panel. We don't need clones.

I thought it was an established fact that it was the Spanish Fed that went to officials in-between the SD and the FD at Golden Spin regarding the BLR judge and that it involved Zhulin's co-coach in some capacity. Or maybe I just read it on this thread and confused what was "fact" as laid out by Hersh's article and what was pretty sure assertions by posters who have inside information. Either way, Hersh also relies on speculation and rumors as well outside the video as his information had to come from sources and others' observations. I'm pretty sure all of that will be taken into account as witness testimony is evidence to be weighed against the witness' credibility.

I do agree with you that the video itself may be enough to suspend the judge, but I'm sure all the other stuff surrounding the incident is something that is of interest to those investigating...unless they don't care to do a thorough job and want to control the size of this situation from being bigger as it is the ISU...

 

[SLIVER]

Hes a vile corrupted judge, you only have to look at the laughable protocol from Rostelecom to see how he operates and always has.
Bob/sol first with 9.75s, while marking down their rivals. Popova/M with almost the same components in the free as Gilles/P. Supporting A/Ucar hard even though they skated like crap, Turkey another one of Russia's bought feds, to add to the usual suspects they already own.

Same thing in the ladies, Radionova's PCS' in the free, the same as Kostner PML!

Worst bit, he is part of the usual gang, a mafia of Russian backed federation that hijacks panels. I wrote about this in the Rostelecom dance thread way back. They are particularly effective at the European chp where you can end up with 4 or 5 of them on one panel. Dance is always worst because there isnt the jumping mistakes to derail their agenda.

For the life of me, I cant imagine why anyone would want to judge for hours upon hours, when they're not actually watching and have all their marks pre planned. Half of these judges couldn't judge properly even if they wanted to. You only need to look at how he is incapable of going more than 0.25 off from one PCS to the next.

Obviously nothing will happen to him, worst case scenario, a slap on the wrist or a very quiet short suspension, he'll be back imparting his wisdom on these poor young athletes very soon.

 

[sap5]

I just wonder if other ice dance-related deals will be exposed with this. I know that seems far-fetched but we all know games are being played right now.

The funny thing is that if you expose certain deals, but not others, then it seems like those other deals don't exist simply because they're not being reported.

 

[barbarafan]

The funny thing is that if you expose certain deals, but not others, then it seems like those other deals don't exist simply because they're not being reported.

Turkish judge had really crappy judging for certain teams...others seemed quite normal...not consistant at all.

 

[levineismine]

Turkish judge had really crappy judging for certain teams...others seemed quite normal...not consistant at all.

Just look at the SD marks for Z/G vs teams from BLR and TUR...

 

[DreamsofBliss]

The funny thing is that if you expose certain deals, but not others, then it seems like those other deals don't exist simply because they're not being reported.

Really? It doesn't make you think "I wonder what else we haven't heard about!" To me it seems more like a tip of the iceberg thing.

 

[Areski]

Really? It doesn't make you think "I wonder what else we haven't heard about!" To me it seems more like a tip of the iceberg thing.

Lol, and that's pretty much the same thing that the person you replied to meant! For me there's an explicit sarcasm expressed - evident after "then it seems that those other deals don't exist simply because they're not being reported".

 

[barbarafan]

Just look at the SD marks for Z/G vs teams from BLR and TUR...

yep..I did a little analysis on who he creamed versus who he rewarded bigly and seriously if they are doing an investigation on Zagreb I hope they are looking at all officials and coaches.

 

[sap5]

Really? It doesn't make you think "I wonder what else we haven't heard about!" To me it seems more like a tip of the iceberg thing.

It's partly an access issue. If your ability to report depends on certain people granting you access to information, then you might choose not to report on issues that could jeopardize that access, but rather report only on the issues that wouldn't affect, or maybe even help, those that give you access.

 

[Anyasnake]

Russian Nationals :

1 - Bobrova/Soloviev 77.53 (Won on PCS - wonky twizzle)
2 - Stepanova/Bukin 76.97 (best crowd reaction by a mile)
3 - Zagorski/Gueirrero 71.52 (same, very energetic)
4 - Sinitsina/Katsalapov 68.46 (messy twizzles from Victoria)

I think the 2 places for Olys are a lock-in. Bobrova/Soloviev have to skate clean or they might lose their national title.
By the way, watch Russia have 2 teams on the podium in Euros.

 

[Bigbird]

Russian Nationals :

1 - Bobrova/Soloviev 77.53 (Won on PCS - wonky twizzle)
2 - Stepanova/Bukin 76.97 (best crowd reaction by a mile)
3 - Zagorski/Gueirrero 71.52 (same, very energetic)
4 - Sinitsina/Katsalapov 68.46 (messy twizzles from Victoria)

I think the 2 places for Olys are a lock-in. Bobrova/Soloviev have to skate clean or they might lose their national title.
By the way, watch Russia have 2 teams on the podium in Euros.

It would be about time right?

 

[Anyasnake]

It would be about time right?

About time for ... ?

 

[Lara111]

It would be about time right?

Russian Nationals :

1 - Bobrova/Soloviev 77.53 (Won on PCS - wonky twizzle)
2 - Stepanova/Bukin 76.97 (best crowd reaction by a mile)
3 - Zagorski/Gueirrero 71.52 (same, very energetic)
4 - Sinitsina/Katsalapov 68.46 (messy twizzles from Victoria)

I think the 2 places for Olys are a lock-in. Bobrova/Soloviev have to skate clean or they might lose their national title.
By the way, watch Russia have 2 teams on the podium in Euros.

Fair judging at Russian Nationals.

 

[Anyasnake]

Fair judging at Russian Nationals.

Haha ! About time for a real feedback surely, it's almost time for the Olympics, gotta get those levels and points.
Only Z/G got level 4 Rumba No one got any of the step sequences level 4 (but that's justified).
http://fsrussia.ru/results/1718/rusnat1718_ENG/IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

 

[caseyedwards]

How do s/b beat c/l?? It’s unimaginable! C/l PCS and goe makes it impossible for s/b to beat them if they are clean! Not even b/s is likely to beat c/l.

This was written by the IOC

• Athletes must not have been disqualified or declared ineligible for any Anti-Doping Rule Violation.
  
  How does bobrova get around this! Her suspension wasn’t expunged!

 

[ninalovesskating]

Another twizzle disaster from S/K... This time, from her. Why is this team still skating?

 

[AquaLady]

Stepanova/Bukin! The crowd loved them! Get that national title babies!

So ecstatic for Zahorski/Guerreiro! In third place going into the free! Their pattern was probably the best today.

 

[caseyedwards]

Another twizzle disaster from S/K... This time, from her. Why is this team still skating?

They should try out for one of those shows with skaters who get partnered with amateurs. But maybe they wouldn’t be good enough so they stay in competitions instead. Imagine if katsalapov was paired with some amateur and the amateur was better than him at twizzles

 

[Lara111]

They should try out for one of those shows with skaters who get partnered with amateurs. But maybe they wouldn’t be good enough so they stay in competitions instead. Imagine if katsalapov was paired with some amateur and the amateur was better than him at twizzles

It was her not him ....

 

[caseyedwards]

It was her not him ....

Same thing applies to her. What if they can’t be hired to do some kind of ice show because they aren’t good enough to be on one. Only choice is to keep competing.

 

[Eisfee]

Same thing applies to her. What if they can’t be hired to do some kind of ice show because they aren’t good enough to be on one. Only choice is to keep competing.

Your comments are really annoying...
Du gehst mir echt auf die Nerven!