The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[kittysk8ts]

Gilles & Poirier didn't compete at the Challenger event in Canada last season. The event you are thinking of is probably Skate Canada Challenge, which is a qualifying competition for Canadian nationals and not an international event.

G&P's ISU personal best in the short dance is 72.83 from Worlds last season.

As always, you are correct @Dobre and I thank you kindly! Same scoring system though and ridiculously misleading marks. And I adore G/P. But I adore good judging even better

 

[barbarafan]

How does this apply to the NHK trophy though? N/N *lost* the FD TES to both the French and the Danish teams but beat them both in the PCS. They still placed behind F-B/S in the FD, and both teams scored a FD personal best by quite a margin, so it wasn’t like the judges were trying to dump the Danes.

It catches my eye when the PCS order changes between the SD and FD, which happened here with N/N and F-B/S. Also, it catches my eyes when a team beats another team in the PCS for the first time head-to-head, which also happened here with these two couples. I think in this case, it may be just that this panel particularly enjoyed their FD, like you listed as a reason for PCS fluctuations.

The last competition I saw with N/N and this program it was not skated near as well. The speed and smoothness but better plus it was cleaner this time (makes sense...program will improve over season for all skaters)

 

[barbarafan]

As always, you are correct @Dobre and I thank you kindly! Same scoring system though and ridiculously misleading marks. And I adore G/P. But I adore good judging even better

The cdn challenge you saw had all domestic judges - not our international judges..I always check to make sure our international judges are on the straight and narrow..They seen to be in the middle all the time compared with other judges. In NHK the cdn judge gave marks for VM lower for the most part. Strict judge...other teams were marked lower by her as well. She was consistant..At skate canada (I believe..if bs was there) the Russian judge was marking vm higher than cdn judge.

 

[kittysk8ts]

The cdn challenge you saw had all domestic judges - not our international judges..I always check to make sure our international judges are on the straight and narrow..They seen to be in the middle all the time compared with other judges. In NHK the cdn judge gave marks for VM lower for the most part. Strict judge...other teams were marked lower by her as well. She was consistant..At skate canada (I believe..if bs was there) the Russian judge was marking vm higher than cdn judge.

Yes, but it is still the exact same scoring system i.e. code of points that is used by domestic judges. It is the same at Nationals. And I do not understand why they bother with the inflated scores there either. So, the skaters just have to knock 5 points from the Nationals score to have a general idea of where they fit in internationally. It is futile.

I agree with you about our international judges. I also study the scores.

 

[Dobre]

Remember Ilinykh/Zhiganshin's scores at Mordovian Ornament at the beginning of the 2015-2016 season. Those huge scores they got certainly set them up for disappointment later on. Too bad that competition didn't continue, I bet many skaters would have loved to have competed there to get tech. minimums. Who were the callers and judges there?

http://fsrussia.ru/results/1516/CSRUS2015/SEG007OF.HTM

How does this apply to the NHK trophy though?

I just think that following the TES mark is a more telling predictor of long-term movement in the discipline. You had explained why you prefer to follow the PCS marks, and I was explaining why I follow the TES mark.

I don't think there's any question about whether Nazarova & Nikitin's FD is better than their SD. It is. If I remember correctly, they placed two spots higher with their FD than their SD at the Dance Chicago event this summer. They placed one spot higher with their FD than their SD at Lombardia Trophy. And they have now placed a spot higher with their FD at NHK. They are a young and developing upcoming team. It's nice to see them earning some credit for the personality & originality in this FD.

 

[chantilly]

Finally got around to watching the FD's at NHK.
I thought V and M weren't as sharp here as on Skate Canada, but I thought their expression was better and I think the programme gets more emotional and agreeing with Carol Lane that it draws me in more each time.
They clearly deserved to win.

I like H and D but I find their costumes distracting for some reason. Her dress looks kind of Art Deco and the music is so modern. I think they should use simple costumes so it's all about the body movement and connection, maybe even just black or charcoal grey. I think they are on track to challenge for gold at Nationals. I hope they win.
I do love the Shibs, but I love the power and programmes of H and D more.

C and L left me cold which rarely happens for me with them. I think they should bring back Chaplin.

S and K were quite good, but this program feels old fashioned to
me, but they performed it well.

C and B UK, just aren't there yet. They have a couple of cool lifts and I somewhat like their program, but they felt totally disconnected to me and working through the program.

 

[Anyasnake]

Finally got around to watching the FD's at NHK.
I thought V and M weren't as sharp here as on Skate Canada, but I thought their expression was better.

I actually thought the opposite actually. I felt them sliiightly holding back, well maybe Tessa not Scott. However, minus the tiny error on the Dist, it was so much cleaner. Their TES actually went up since Skate Canada.

 

[VGThuy]

Tessa's dying and rising moments in the second half were much better at NHK and I was really in awe of Tessa while she was doing it. It's pretty incredible what she did.

 

[Areski]

Tessa's dying and rising moments in the second half were much better at NHK and I was really in awe of Tessa while she was doing it. It's pretty incredible what she did.

I already enjoyed this part at Skate Canada as I noticed the potential of that choreography but this was the first time I was sold when it comes to their dance as a whole. Now Tessa's dying though really feels compelling & poignant.

I would like some other, less well-worn music / theme for them as I am disappointed with this idea but that's just coulda, woulda, shoulda. I still feel like their music is well below the quality & class of their skating though as well as I find that there are parts of their step sequences that don't highlight their strenghts enough, sometimes even suppress them little bit.

 

[chapis]

Tessa's dying and rising moments in the second half were much better at NHK and I was really in awe of Tessa while she was doing it. It's pretty incredible what she did.

agree and this is where they took inspiration https://tessaandscotttrash.tumblr.com/post/167294093368/balletfever89-so-we-were-able-to-find-some

 

[chantilly]

I actually thought the opposite actually. I felt them sliiightly holding back, well maybe Tessa not Scott. However, minus the tiny error on the Dist, it was so much cleaner. Their TES actually went up since Skate Canada.

I found their expression, particularly Scott's a bit pushed at Skate Canada.
And I thought the Tango section was slightly sharper and perfectly synced to the music at SC. It was slightly off at NHK. Even the twizzles had a tiny bobble from Tessa..
Agreed about the end section being stronger.

 

[Anyasnake]

I found their expression, particularly Scott's a bit pushed at Skate Canada.
And I thought the Tango section was slightly sharper and perfectly synced to the music at SC. It was slightly off at NHK. Even the twizzles had a tiny bobble from Tessa..
Agreed about the end section being stronger.

I agree with twizzles though it wasn't pure perfection. It's just the general impression that I had of the program, very clean on steps (maybe this is why I felt them more reserved this time ?). Yes especially the 2nd part.

 

[sap5]

The "dying" section may be stronger, but overall for me, the choreography still doesn't make sense unless you know the story of Moulin Rouge, and as not everyone knows that story, I think it's a problem. They are trying to convey so much in 4 minutes. Without stellar choreography that knits all the ideas together, it's easy to lose a person somewhere in those minutes. IMO, it's one of the most difficult FDs of the season because of this, and will require superior skating and performance skills, as well as choreography, to make it shine. If they can get it altogether, it will be amazing, because few teams could pull this off.

 

[wickedwitch]

So my big issues with V/M's FD is the lack of cohesion between the to halves. I don't what they did, but their performance at NHK improved this significantly. It now comes off more as an awkward transition as opposed to two completely unrelated halves, like some really bad OD/SDs.

This is nitpicky, but the moment where Satine's voice comes in for the first time in the diagonal steps needs to be more emphasized by the choreography. Usually, this is what Marie-France does best with choreography, bringing out nuances in music, so I'm surprised this one was overlooked.

 

[sap5]

So my big issues with V/M's FD is the lack of cohesion between the to halves. I don't what they did, but their performance at NHK improved this significantly.

I was impressed by the amount of improvement V/M showed in both the SD and FD, considering how little time they had between SCI and NHK. Unfortunate that they had so many errors that brought the scores down, because I think they would have otherwise scored very well at NHK. On the bright side, this will probably make for a very exciting GPF competition.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I was impressed by the amount of improvement V/M showed in both the SD and FD, considering how little time they had between SCI and NHK. Unfortunate that they had so many errors that brought the scores down, because I think they would have otherwise scored very well at NHK. On the bright side, this will probably make for a very exciting GPF competition.

They did score very well at NHK. Their FD score was a personal best. Just no world records this time.

 

[chantilly]

What would the scores likely have been without the errors in both sections?

 

[kittysk8ts]

What would the scores likely have been without the errors in both sections?

It's hard to say because of the GOEs but technically, in the SD, they would have received one (1) extra point for the twizzles. They received level 4 for every other element. Their PCS likely would have gone up a bit as well.

Same for the FD - one (1) extra point for the diagonal step sequence if they had achieved a level 4.

 

[lauravvv]

It's hard to say because of the GOEs but technically, in the SD, they would have received one (1) extra point for the twizzles. They received level 4 for every other element. Their PCS likely would have gone up a bit as well.

Same for the FD - one (1) extra point for the diagonal step sequence if they had achieved a level 4.

They would have gotten 1.5 more points, not 1, if they had reached level 4 in the FD diagonal step sequence (+ probably higher GOE). Each next (higher) step sequence level is worth 1.5 points more than the previous (lesser) one. But there is no guarantee that they would have received level 4 without that mistake. Even ice dancers of the highest level often get level 3 for their step sequences without any serious and/or obvious mistakes.

 

[kittysk8ts]

They would have gotten 1.5 more points,

Yup! Humblest apologies everyone!

 

[Amantide]

I'm watching some programs, especially SD, which I have missed. Geee, this year most of these programs are really boring me to death. While watching I was thinking I use to enjoy most watching the compulsory dances for hours, in the past, than this. At least I had more fun comparing skaters and their skills.

 

[chapis]

I'm watching some programs, especially SD, which I have missed. Geee, this year most of these programs are really boring me to death. While watching I was thinking I use to enjoy most watching the compulsory dances for hours, in the past, than this. At least I had more fun comparing skaters and their skills.

Well, at least you can enjoy to Elena and Anton.

 

[Amantide]

Well, at least you can enjoy to Elena and Anton.

Who's Elena and Anton?

 

[chapis]

Who's Elena and Anton?

Elena I. And Anton Shibnev. I read you praising them and saying they have potential . You dont like them anymore?

 

[sap5]

Well, at least you can enjoy to Elena and Anton.

How did pairs get in the dance thread? Because surely no one else can simply be called "Elena and Anton," right?

 

[Amantide]

Elena I. And Anton Shibnev. I read you praising them and saying they have potential . You dont like them anymore?

I don't know. Have to wait and see in the future how they perform. How are they related with my post? They are not competing yet.

@sap5 I thought about them too, at first.

 

[chapis]

I don't know. Have to wait and see in the future how they perform. How are they related with my post? They are not competing yet.

@sap5 I thought about them too, at first.

They are competing https://youtube.com/watch?v=_3dn--oRz7s

 

[Amantide]

They are competing https://youtube.com/watch?v=_3dn--oRz7s

Well, not at in GP and who knows about Europeans, but I don't think so. They are a very new couple so I really don't know how they come into this discussion.
Anyway, thanks for the video. I had no idea they were competing anywhere but if it makes you happy, Spartacus does bore too.
Seriously though, that was blah. But I'm not expecting much this season. I'll see next one.

 

[Dobre]

I had no idea they were competing anywhere.

Ilinykh & Shibnev are on the entry list for their first Challenger at Tallinn Trophy in a little less than two weeks.

 

[Amantide]

Ilinykh & Shibnev are on the entry list for their first Challenger at Tallinn Trophy in a little less than two weeks.

So where was that video taken from? I mean what competition was it?