Lutz as a second (or third) part in a combo...

[pETEs (Sasha Fan)]

Is it possible? Or is it physics science-fiction?

Any audiovisual proof?

 

[Coco]

They would have to rotate in the opposite direction from the preceding jump.

 

[zigzig]

People do 1Lo+xF combos so if you had enough momentum to swing to an outside edge you could theoretically do it.

 

[screech]

People have done a flip as the last jump in a combo (example: Plushenko's 3A half loop 3F combo in SLC). In theory it could work if someone does a half-loop and then an edge change to an outside edge.

 

[mackiecat]

Can't have a change of edge to be considered a combo, so no.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The closest example I can think of is when Tracy Wainmann did two double lutzes in a row (with a short set - up for the second jump).

 

[skatingguy]

Deleted

 

[vesperholly]

I believe Rohene Ward used to do a 2lutz counterclockwise-2lutz clockwise combo. He got to level 10 in ISI which requires jumping in both direction.

He almost did it here at 1:57: https://youtu.be/CC1-havgrIk

1/2 loop lands on an inside edge - only salchow or flip could follow.

 

[seabm7]

In a jump combination, you should not change the in/out-ness of the landing edge when you attempt the second jump. The only way I can think of is doing the Lutz in the counter direction. The example is shown by verperholly above.

 

[gkelly]

I've seen single flip-single lutz combo with the lutz taking off from the flip landing edge by a club-level skater who had solid double jumps but no triples. I don't remember which jump was done in the skater's "bad" direction -- probably the flip.

We've seen walley, reverse walley, triple lutz with the lutz taking off from the same edge that the reverse walley landed on, or without the regular-direction walley first, but after a long pause so it might not be considered a combination, even if single walley is considered a standard jump (and not "unlisted" as in IJS).

 

[Skittl1321]

Can't have a change of edge to be considered a combo, so no.

Since you land on an outside edge, and a lutz takes off on an outside edge, it is perfectly possible to do a lutz-lutz; no edge change is needed. (Or a lutz after ANY jump, actually.)

It is however freaking hard, as you have to rotate the jumps in opposite directions.

Typically it would never be worth it to do a lutz as the second jump of a combo, and specifically a lutz-lutz because of the limits on repeating jumps. You would lose the opportunity to do a high value jump elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

Since you land on an outside edge, and a lutz takes off on an outside edge, it is perfectly possible to do a lutz-lutz; no edge change is needed. (Or a lutz after ANY jump, actually.)

I think mackiecat was referring specifically to the post right before that suggested doing a half loop and then changing edge to do a lutz instead of a flip as a possibility.

I have seen a 1Lz+2Lz in intermediate level competition once (the 1Lz was in the reverse direction).

 

[mackiecat]

Yes, you would have to do one clockwise lutz then a counterclockwise lutz or vice a versa

 

[antmanb]

It obviously wouldn't count as a combination under the IJS rules, but I wonder how the skaters that do long inside edges and switch quickly to the outside for lutzes (like Pogorilaya and Radionova) would fair with a half loop and edge change or if it would be too difficult to control the rotation from a triple jump and the half loop.

 

[Vash01]

This thread is mere speculation, not news. I think it should be in the Trashcan forum, but it's up to the admins to decide.

 

[pETEs (Sasha Fan)]

People have done a flip as the last jump in a combo (example: Plushenko's 3A half loop 3F combo in SLC). In theory it could work if someone does a half-loop and then an edge change to an outside edge.

Why is it that Plushy's 3F as a third jump in a combo doesn't look as weird / unnatural as Dmitriev's flip in his 3Lz+3F?

 

[tony]

Why is it that Plushy's 3F as a third jump in a combo doesn't look as weird / unnatural as Dmitriev's flip in his 3Lz+3F?

Because he does a half-loop (Euler) that puts him on the correct foot for take-off.

 

[skatepixie]

Because he does a half-loop (Euler) that puts him on the correct foot for take-off.

Yeah. Landing on the "wrong" foot can't feel natural, and looks "weird."

 

[Rock2]

Not even landing on the other foot, but you are rewiring so much of how you jump. In all jumps you are to find your right side in the air (if you jump that way) for the landing. Landing on your wrong foot completely messes with your axis of rotation and creates a new point of balance for the landing. I'm assuming your weight needs to be centered, to accommodate an inside edge landing...which is also so OMG to begin with.

IIRC he had issues doing the 3Z 'correctly' in the LP. The jump was to the outside and he had to really grab for the outside edge on the landing.

Dunno if the 3Z+3F combo will end up being worth it.

 

[VGThuy]

I will admit that despite the real issues people had with the "look" and possibly technique of that combo, I thought it was way cool when I first saw it. My jaw literally dropped.

 

[bardtoob]

I wonder if Patrick Chan could have done 3Lz-3F.

 

[pETEs (Sasha Fan)]

I wonder if Patrick Chan could have done 3Lz-3F.

Short answer: No.

 

[Coco]

Doing an opposite direction double Lutz after a triple jump might be the new arms over the head. It lets you avoid the risk of repeating too many double toes and it gets you almost a full extra point.

 

[gkelly]

Doing an opposite direction double Lutz after a triple jump might be the new arms over the head. It lets you avoid the risk of repeating too many double toes and it gets you almost a full extra point.

I don't think it'll ever become common even as a double jump until and unless the rules change such that it earns more than one extra point. There's a reason we never saw it with doubles in 6.0 era either -- it's not a trivial addition of difficulty for most skaters.

However, for a skater who is naturally more ambidextrous than most and who has otherwise maxed out on her jump content and GOEs, it might be worthwhile. Of the current field, I'd guess Miyahara would be the most likely to try.

But unless someone finds that jumping both directions comes easily to them, they're not going spend much time on what will feel very awkward in practice unless there's a big point reward at the end of the process.