U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[Firedancer]

I think Nathan will do the short and Jason will do the free. Nathan is the US’s best chance for gold. It would be a huge mistake to put him out there for both programs in the team event. The short program scores have much more impact on the final result & will give Nathan a chance to get out on Olympic ice without completely exhausting him. Jason is consistent, has been to the Olympics before & will in some cases be skating against other country’s #2 skater.

 

[skateboy]

The season is just getting underway. Max, Adam and Vincent have had some decent results. So has Jason, but it seems a bit premature to be considering him a lock for the Olympic team just yet.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Only up to two subs in 2014.

 

[Frida80]

The season is just getting underway. Max, Adam and Vincent have had some decent results. So has Jason, but it seems a bit premature to be considering him a lock for the Olympic team just yet.

I’m not. I’m making speculations if he were a part of the team. If he’s not, it would make things a lot more dicey. Both Max, Adam, and Vincent need to show consistency with their scores otherwise they would be very risky to put on the team. Jason is very consistent even without his quad.

 

[LilJen]

Looking forward to NHK - Jason and Adam up to bat. I'm still sad about the fact that Josh is out and will probably not return to competitive skating.

But, looking at the roster, both Jason and Adam have legitimate shots at a medal. Probably nothing more than a silver w/ Yuzu there.

Take nothing for granted!

Joshua Farris : hoping he's OK.

Wasn't it a rule that only two disciplines could have different skaters/teams? Has that rule been changed?

I was wondering the same thing. If they had to have different skaters in men's, which other discipline would you switch out someone? I guess you would HAVE to keep pairs, since the US has only one spot in pairs. . . seems a hard choice between splitting women's and splitting dance.

 

[Frida80]

Joshua Farris : hoping he's OK.


I was wondering the same thing. If they had to have different skaters in men's, which other discipline would you switch out someone? I guess you would HAVE to keep pairs, since the US has only one spot in pairs. . . seems a hard choice between splitting women's and splitting dance.

Not really. The dance teams are more stable than ladies. Just hand it to the Shibs for safety sake and move on. The only reason I can think of that they would split dance is because another team scores consistently higher in either the SD or FD. So it would be one pair, one dance team, 2 ladies and two men.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Wasn't it a rule that only two disciplines could have different skaters/teams? Has that rule been changed?

I don't think so.

So we have one team doing both for pairs for certain and have to pick one discipline to not give two medals. I think dance is tempting as they used to have a third event anyway and don't have the same high impact landings. Really we could plug any of the top USA teams in to skate both events and probably have the same results. Last time they used Meryl and Charlie twice, but the Shibs are Meryl and Charlie. So who knows. Honestly I almost want to see them use C/B and H/D in the team event then hope for an individual bronze for the Shibs. Having three medal winning teams would be pretty damn awesome I think.

In the end... if the Shibs have the highest short and long, or even close, I suspect they will do both. If someone else has a much higher short... maybe they will be used.

That leaves mens and ladies. I think there is zero chance of Nathan doing both... even if only for the sake of not risking the boots. I could see him not skating the team event before doing both (unless somehow the USA has a shot at team gold... then maybe but still doubt it). I also think having Jason in the team event is likely very tempting. He was born for this afterall. I could see Jason actually skating both events. If they really want to give two spots to the ladies and dance I think Jason would be happy to do both and would likely do enough for a bronze.

I actually have a feeling we might see Karen skating both. She seems to do well under pressure and I actually think she might rise to the occasion rather nicely. If she pulls a magic rabbit out of her engine and repeats as national champ... I kinda think she will do both. I don't think Ashley would do both as I don't think her body can handle it. As much as I love Mariah putting her in the short would be really stupid as she rarely has good shorts...honestly Id rather Mirai in the long than the short as well. Bradie might actually be a factor here... she is safe and consistent... don't be shocked to see much of her soon.

 

[Firedancer]

I think they will split men’s & ladies and have the Shibs do dance.

 

[her grace]

China and the U.S. are the teams I see battling for the bronze. Edge to China in pairs by a lot. Edge to U.S. in dance. It's a tossup in men if Chen competes both programs--other Americans likely to lose to Jin. Edge to U.S. in ladies, but that's not much of an edge if Russia, Japan, Italy, and Canada all defeat the American lady in the SP and 3 of the 4 do so again in the LP. The U.S. may need Chen to skate both programs to get on the team event podium.

 

[Frida80]

China and the U.S. are the teams I see battling for the bronze. Edge to China in pairs by a lot. Edge to U.S. in dance. It's a tossup in men if Chen competes both programs--other Americans likely to lose to Jin. Edge to U.S. in ladies, but that's not much of an edge if Russia, Japan, Italy, and Canada all defeat the American lady in the SP and 3 of the 4 do so again in the LP. The U.S. may need Chen to skate both programs to get on the team event podium.

I have USA at bronze with 58 points and China with 54 points if they make the final at all. Because China is so weak at dance and ladies, team Japan may edge them out for the finals. In my current rankings Japan makes the final with 22 points and China just misses with 19. Currently, I have their ladies at 8th place, behind all the top countries and also France and South Korea. With dance I have them last. Boyang is a better FS skater than SP. I expect him to be behind Japan, USA, Canada, and Russia. However, in the finals by way of his quads, he should win the FS. I doubt Germany will use S/M for the team event, with a OGM on the line again.

Team China would have to pull out all the stops to get the final. To beat team USA, they would need to get at least 27 in the qualifying round. That would require China to be 3rd in men’s, 6th in women’s, 1st in pairs, and at least 7th in dance. This is a very tall order. All other countries have outscored China in dance. Kolyada’s PB is higher than Boyang’s by 6 points. Laurine just scored a near identical SP score as Xianging Li. Plus her PB is 3 points higher. I do see Sui and Han winning the SP. But everything has to fall in the right place. I’ll keep a close eye on team China, but from what I can see they’ll be in fourth place.

 

[Vagabond]

Wasn't it a rule that only two disciplines could have different skaters/teams? Has that rule been changed?

I don't believe so. Changing it, of course, would penalize those federations that don't have at least two entries in every discipline. Like the United States, for example.

 

[jlai]

Don't underestimate team France who can beat US in ice dance and pairs and do ok in the other two disciplines on a good day, and team Japan who can beat US in two categories

 

[RoseRed]

In my opinion, there's no way Nathan will skate both programs. Men go pretty soon after the team event and he's an individual medal contender. He'll do the SP and whichever of the other US men who goes who's looked the best/most consistent will skate the LP.

Then they'll split on of ladies or dance. The ladies have the most time to recover and dance is the safest to split with three teams very close to the same level. We'll see. It will really depend on how the ladies look for the rest of the year leading up to it.

 

[Frida80]

Don't underestimate team France who can beat US in ice dance and pairs and do ok in the other two disciplines on a good day, and team Japan who can beat US in two categories

I haven’t. France has a great chance of making it over both Japan and China. Still if J/C are 3rd and dance is 2nd, they’ll miss bronze by two points or more.

 

[her grace]

In my current rankings Japan makes the final with 22 points and China just misses with 19. Currently, I have their ladies at 8th place, behind all the top countries and also France and South Korea. With dance I have them last.

I don't think we should count on China being last in the dance SD. Wang/Liu's SB is around a point less than Germany's Lorenz/Polizoakis and Korea's Min/Gamelin, so it's possible for Wang/Liu to contend with those teams. Depending on which countries qualify for the team event, they would be in a good position to beat Australia and/or the Czech Republic. They probably wouldn't beat Israel or Ukraine if those countries qualify.

Don't underestimate team France who can beat US in ice dance and pairs and do ok in the other two disciplines on a good day, and team Japan who can beat US in two categories

Is Besseghier still injured? The French men look really weak, though dance and pairs will compensate somewhat. Additionally, Papadakis/Cizeron are in a similar position to Chen: maybe they would rather not compete in both portions of the team event to focus on their individual event.

 

[Frida80]

I don't think we should count on China being last in the dance SD. Wang/Liu's SB is around a point less than Germany's Lorenz/Polizoakis and Korea's Min/Gamelin, so it's possible for Wang/Liu to contend with those teams. Depending on which countries qualify for the team event, they would be in a good position to beat Australia and/or the Czech Republic. They probably wouldn't beat Israel or Ukraine if those countries qualify.



Is Besseghier still injured? The French men look really weak, though dance and pairs will compensate somewhat. Additionally, Papadakis/Cizeron are in a similar position to Chen: maybe they would rather not compete in both portions of the team event to focus on their individual event.

Any Korean team should receive a boost in score because the crowd reaction will boost their PCS score. Based on the scores, the qualifying teams will be:

Russia
Canada
USA
Japan
China
Korea
France
Germany
Israel
Italy


Even if China isn’t last in dance, they still need to make up a lot of points. By my estimate, these teams will make the final: Russia, Canada, USA, France, and Italy. Japan and China would really have to over perform to beat out Italy it get to the finals.

 

[Vagabond]

Is Besseghier still injured?

He isn't injured, AFAIK. He had pneumonia and a collapsed lung. As of October 3, his course of treatment had not been determined.

http://www.ledauphine.com/sport/2017/10/03/besseghier-le-coup-dur

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Any Korean team should receive a boost in score because the crowd reaction will boost their PCS score. Based on the scores, the qualifying teams will be:

Russia
Canada
USA
Japan
China
Korea
France
Germany
Israel
Italy


Even if China isn’t last in dance, they still need to make up a lot of points. By my estimate, these teams will make the final: Russia, Canada, USA, France, and Italy. Japan and China would really have to over perform to beat out Italy it get to the finals.

So is Australia officially out? Or can't get enough points???

 

[Frida80]

So is Australia officially out? Or can't get enough points???

Unless Kalaini can get another placement, it’s mostly finished.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^ For reals???

How did Israel, Korea and Germany get enough points???????? Germany? As in Germany? They have like a pair......

 

[Frida80]

^^^ For reals???

How did Israel, Korea and Germany get enough points???????? Germany? As in Germany? They have like a pair......

GSF has been tracking points since the beginning. This is the table I found there.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EHPb3Pikjli9ibybrTjSbmiJScvM7_t-KtT3OYNTMII/mobilebasic

 

[Marco]

Unless Kalaini can get another placement, it’s mostly finished.

See this is what inconsistent calling does. Kailani would have placed a couple places higher if it wasn't for that strict caller at Skate Canada and contributed some points and perhaps attracted a second GP invite.

 

[Sedge]

He isn't injured, AFAIK. He had pneumonia and a collapsed lung. As of October 3, his course of treatment had not been determined.

http://www.ledauphine.com/sport/2017/10/03/besseghier-le-coup-dur

Chafik appeared with Philippe Candeloro in a brief live promo video today for GP France in Grenoble.
He skated..not a lot..but he looked fine.

http://france3-regions.francetvinfo...duo-fait-son-show-foire-grenoble-1359909.html

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

See this is what inconsistent calling does. Kailani would have placed a couple places higher if it wasn't for that strict caller at Skate Canada and contributed some points and perhaps attracted a second GP invite.

I swear you and me are brothers from a different mother......

 

[aftershocks]

I had to check twice to make sure this is U.S. men's thread.

Vincent's TES is amazing! I daresay if he keeps it together, he might just come for Slaythan.

I like all of the U.S. men, and U.S. Nationals, as usual, will be a hard fought battle among the men. I think that Vincent is obviously extremely talented, and kudos to him for pushing himself and in many respects being ahead of schedule re his competitive arc. He wasn't expecting to be on the podium at 2017 Nationals and he placed second; he wasn't considered one of the podium favorites at 2017 Jr. Worlds, yet by competing consistently and courageously, he ended up winning gold. But the idea that Nathan Chen should be sitting at home quaking in his boots because of Vincent's accomplishments at CoC is laughable. I'm sure that if Nathan is following the GP competitions he's stoked for his fellow U.S. compadres, and gearing up to be prepared for his second GP outing at Skate America. I doubt Nathan is thinking too much about U.S. Nats competition at this stage.

As someone mentioned earlier, Vincent could have possibly made the podium at CoC had he skated better in the sp. And frankly with the URs and falls, I would not be in such a rush to declare that Vincent is ready to win U.S. Nationals over the rest of the competition. Why is Vincent attempting this variety of quads in the first place? Because he's trying to follow in Nathan's boot-steps. Nathan showed everyone that landing 5 quads cleanly in a free program is possible. While some of the top guys in the World were still trying to ace three quads in a program and contemplating attempting four, Nathan laid down five cleanly in two major competitions after coming back strong from an injury-shortened season. And Nathan has continued to up the ante for this season by working on a fuller repertoire of quad jumps.

Nathan Chen, be looking over your shoulder - you're the one they are chasing! Men's nationals (US) is going to be really exciting this year.

See my previous comments. I doubt Nathan is looking over his shoulder. He's more likely putting his own house in order, and focusing on himself, on where he's at in his preparedness this season and where he wants to be. He's looking ahead, not back. Perhaps some of the top veterans are getting a bit distracted by what some of the younger 'quadsters' are doing. But again, most successful competitive athletes probably try to stay focused on their own training, strategies and goals, because that's all they have power over.

U.S. Nationals men's discipline is exciting every year. We are always expressing how the battle will be tough and hard-fought among the men. It's always a slug-fest that's worth watching.

I need to check ... in slo-mo to get a better idea of what the judges are seeing.

Don't we all. Even the judges seemingly aren't sure what they are seeing more than half the time, or else they don't have "a good angle" to assess properly. And I'm speaking in general, not re specific skaters or specific events.

Jackie Wong of Rocker Skating makes some good points re the judging system in his review of CoC:
http://www.rockerskating.com/news/2...-on-rewarding-the-good-and-penalizing-the-bad

 

[Dobre]

I feel like the U.S. men have really stepped it up internationally. Nathan & Vincent are a huge difference among the top U.S. contenders & with their international scoring potential. Max is pushing his technical limits. Jason has built his PCS to that of the international medal-contenders. Three JGPF finalists and Tomoki with two medals as well.

The only reason I can think of that they would split dance is because another team scores consistently higher in either the SD or FD.

I can think of several:
-Because mathematically, splitting dance may be better for team USA than losing placements by putting up a second man and lady.
-Because the U.S. has two multi-World medalists in ice dance. Which they do not have in any other discipline.
-Because U.S. dance teams split placements at Worlds/Nationals/the GPF last season.
-Because the U.S. is likely to qualify multiple dance teams into the GPF for the fourth time this quadrennium.

 

[JJS5056]

Wait. The U.S. should have two pairs as S/K placed 10th at Worlds; did someone make an error earlier stating we have just 1?

If Wagner makes it the OG, she will certainly take part in the team event. There is absolutely a 'lifetime achievement' component to the makeup since they essentially are able to give Olympic medals to skaters with great careers but little chance at an individual medal. Ashley has a LONG history of skating brilliant LPs, starting with her 1st place finish in the LP at 2009 Nationals. She'll skate the LP and deserve to.

Back to the men, it's really a shame that only 3 from this group will get to go to the OG. Personally, my preference is a Nathan, Jason, Adam team, but Nathan, Vincent, and Max looks like a good bet right now. If Adam and/or Jason make the team, I think it would be wise to replace them for Worlds.

 

[Sylvia]

Wait. The U.S. should have two pairs as S/K placed 10th at Worlds; did someone make an error earlier stating we have just 1?

You missed all the after Worlds ... ISU's Olympic qualifying rules dictated that the U.S. only qualified 1 spot in Korea.

ETA - it's ISU Rule 400: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-dance-team-event.100715/page-2#post-5025055

 

[skatingguy]

Wait. The U.S. should have two pairs as S/K placed 10th at Worlds; did someone make an error earlier stating we have just 1?

Oh dear. Have you been hibernating for the past 7 months? Just kidding. So the number of pairs entries in the Olympics that can qualify from the World Championships is capped at 16. So we had China - 3, Russia - 3, Canada - 3, France - 2, Italy -2 - that's 15. So the US, in spite of a 10th place finish, only gets 1 entry in pairs for the Olympics. There will be two entries for the World Championships.

 

[JJS5056]

Oh dear. Have you been hibernating for the past 7 months? Just kidding. So the number of pairs entries in the Olympics that can qualify from the World Championships is capped at 16. So we had China - 3, Russia - 3, Canada - 3, France - 2, Italy -2 - that's 15. So the US, in spite of a 10th place finish, only gets 1 entry in pairs for the Olympics. There will be two entries for the World Championships.

LOL, yes actually! I appreciate you and @Sylvia explaining this for me so quickly. Thankfully, the U.S. has 3 spots in the events where we have actual depth this time around.