Gracie Gold in treatment for eating disorder, depression

[wickedwitch]

But again, it's just anecdotal evidence (what Ashley said). And the problem with your number 3 is that reducing the weight may also reduce the strength. There are a lot of factors that go into an individual's jumping ability, some of which is just innate talent. Who can otherwise explain why two people the same age, height and weight may have wildly different athletic ability.

Which is exactly what I wrote. There are many factors that go into a jump, one of which is weight.

ETA: I suspect the reason that some coaches focus on weight is because it is so easily measured. It's harder to prove that a skater needs to improve their technique. And obviously coaches can't help a skater become more talented or change the shape of their skeleton. But technique and strength should ideally be the focus.

 

[jlai]

It's important to have an honest and open conversation about healthy eating and skating, but doing so without acknowledging that losing weight can help jumps in certain circumstances is naive and pointless.

Thank you.
I don't really want to get sucked into this debate. I think if you are waiting for a scientific study to prove that smaller/skinnier skaters generally (there are always exceptions in all studies) are more successful, you have to wait a while. One only needs to go to Wikipedia and look at the last 20 years of world champions in men and ladies. Or go to US regionals championships to see who made top four and who don't.

I'll add that on video, those skaters that look like they have average layman height and size, end up very small people when I come across them in street clothes outside the rink.

Of course individuals vary, just like in any real world situations, because for every thing, there is a central tendency and outliers.

ETa: sometimes I do think maybe we need to change the scoring of the sports to change the trend, like emphasing the rotations in the air at the expense of skating skills.

 

[skateboy]

Do you mean LBMI (Lean Body Mass Index) or the regular BMI?

I was referring to regular BMI.

 

[wouldacoulda]

The skaters know what the real deal is: Adam just now, Joe Johnston and Jason Brown when Gracie first withdrew from the Japan Open. Respect

And folks don’t kid yourself. We’re not just talking about straight out remarks like “Gracie is fat”. Anyone who has hidden “Gracie is fat” behind the following code words:

Her face is round.
She’s wearing a baggy sweatshirt.
She’s out of shape.
It’s a sport, we need to talk “frankly” about weight.

You’re not keeping it real, you’re not just reporting “the facts”, you’re part of the problem, and keep it to yourself.

Hugs and best wishes to Gracie.

You hit the nail on the head.
How many people watched the videos of Gracie SOI performances this year and posted comments on this site, such as "What has she been doing?", "This is a train wreck!", "she's completely out of shape!", "She's not even TRYING," or "She can't even do DOUBLES!" Depression, anxiety, and eating disorders are real, and it's time that all in the sport, including fans, recognize these conditions, and perhaps pause before posting an 'innocent' comment, writing an article, or in the case of TSL, snarking and eye-rolling on a public forum.

I have dealt with the issue for the better part of my life. Binge-eating, crazy restrictive eating, and back. I obsess about my weight/food non-stop, to the point where it can almost consume me. Not long ago, a friend made a comment which triggered it, causing me to start eliminating "bad" foods, which led to dramatic weight loss, obsessive weigh-ins, etc. the other night while laying in bed, I tested whether my knees would bruise if I slammed them together (they don't touch when I'm fat), and was excited when they did. The next night I binge-ate two pints of ice cream. I can see that I've gone too far, but part of me still wants to see my hip bones.

My point is that it's not a black and white issue, and anyone who has not experienced it either personally or through someone close to them is not really in a position to judge.

Oh, and by the way, I'm 56, so it's not just a "young" thing. Just my two cents...plus a few rambling paragraphs!

 

[Japanfan]

Where is it proven that an extra five pounds can hinder jumping ability? I think a lot of the push for extreme thinnness is aesthetics.

Gaining weight, even just a few pounds, can definitely throw off jumping ability - commentators mention it often.

However, I don't think it's clear whether actually being five pounds heavier hinders jumping ability in a skater who is already fit and lean. For example, if a post-puberty female skater comfortably weighed 110 pounds, trained at that weight, and could maintain it easily, would her jumps improve if she lost five pounds?

I have heard a few female skaters say that losing weight helped their skating, but I have to question whether this is actually true. It could just be a perception based on the boost to self-esteem that the skaters get, and the compliments they probably get as well (perhaps unfortunately, as the compliments might reflect the 'thin is always better viewpoint'.

I have to wonder whether the weight that some ladies consider to be their fighting weight might be lower than necessary.

Also, wouldn't losing five pounds affect jumping ability, just like gaining five pounds?

And while weight is more important in pairs, because of the throws and lifts, I sometimes wonder if pair ladies' ideal weight might be too low as well. Pair ladies do tend to be very short, and generally vary from very thin to more typical skater thin. There should be an emphasis in pairs not only on the lady's weight, but also on the man's muscle and strength, which he needs for lifting and throwing. I don't know whether the emphasis in equal.

When you think of Hao Zhang and Dan Zhang, Hao is built like a linebacker, and Dan was/is stick thin. Given how strong he was, he should still have been able to throw and lift her if she had been five pounds more.

Two of the best ladies jumpers of all time--Midori Ito and Tonya Harding--weren't very "light and lean." A lot of jumping ability has to do with strength. That is why men are better jumpers than women, even though they are taller and heavier.

To be fair, there are some excellent female jumpers and some very poor male jumpers. The fact that at least some women have landed the 3A shows they are capable of it. I have to wonder whether more women would attempt it, if it was acceptable for them to be a few pounds heavier, a bit more muscled, and stronger.

It's easier to rotate jumps if you are built like a beanpole because alignment is easier. That doesn't then follow that heavier people have a harder time getting full rotation on jumps, because more muscular and trained athletes who are heavier will often be more powerful than a tiny beanpole. The larger skater fit skater with excellent technique will often not need to rotate as quickly because they'll be getting greater airtime and height.

A point that is not commonly considered by female skaters and their coach/team, unfortunately.

 

[Japanfan]

double post

 

[FSfan107]

Just wanted to say I'm wishing all the best to Gracie.

 

[flyingsit]

I remember Nancy Kerrigan saying that if she looked better at 100 but jumped better at 105, Evy Scotvold wanted her at 100.

 

[skateboy]

I remember Nancy Kerrigan saying that if she looked better at 100 but jumped better at 105, Evy Scotvold wanted her at 100.

Wow. If that is true, then Evy was a rotten coach.

What skating coach wouldn't want their students to jump better?

 

[jiejie]

Wow. If that is true, then Evy was a rotten coach.

What skating coach wouldn't want their students to jump better?

Evy Scotvold developed his share of top performers, but was also old-school and had a legendary reputation even amongst that era of coaches/students, for being obsessed trying to keep female skaters' weights unrealistically thin. My guess is he single-handedly caused more eating disorders in skaters than just about any other major USA coach. Witness: Jenny Kirk.

Back on topic, I really feel for Gracie. While I wasn't in the public eye and didn't have an ED, I was diagnosed with severe major depression in my 20's and it basically derailed all the bright shiny plans I had for what I thought my future would be. It took professional help to get through it, along with modification of life's path based on new realities. May she find her path, with or without skating. It is true that while one door may slam shut, a window always opens. Her window is out there somewhere, though it may not be clear just yet.

 

[Vagabond]

I remember Nancy Kerrigan saying that if she looked better at 100 but jumped better at 105, Evy Scotvold wanted her at 100.

This piqued my curiosity, so I looked at Kerrigan's profile on www.sports-reference.com, which includes her height and weight when she competed at the Olympics. I'm not sure whether it refers to her stats in 1992 or 1994, but she won a medal at each competition, so it hardly matters.

Nancy Kerrigan....

Height: 5-3.5 (162 cm)
Weight: 115 lbs (52 kg)

Although I am sure Kerrigan did weigh 100 lbs. at some point in her life, I would take what she says about Evy Scotvold with a grain of salt.

 

[bardtoob]

This piqued my curiosity, so I looked at Kerrigan's profile on www.sports-reference.com, which includes her height and weight when she competed at the Olympics. I'm not sure whether it refers to her stats in 1992 or 1994, but she won a medal at each competition, so it hardly matters.

Nancy Kerrigan....

Height: 5-3.5 (162 cm)
Weight: 115 lbs (52 kg)

Although I am sure Kerrigan did weigh 100 lbs. at some point in her life, I would take what she says about Evy Scotvold with a grain of salt.

What is reported is not always, in fact, true, particularly when there is no weight certification required for entrants. It is not at all unusual for skaters and their teams to tell people what they want to hear, like they hardly practice, everything comes natural, they eat a lot but skip the cake, they try to do their best.

 

[Vagabond]

What is reported is not always, in fact, true, particularly when there is no weight certification required for entrants. It is not at all unusual for skaters and their teams to tell people what they want to hear, like they hardly practice, everything comes natural, they eat a lot but skip the cake, they try to do their best.

I'm pretty sure that all Olympic athletes must be measured for height and weight regardless of whether their sport has a weight requirement. Regardless, I would be more inclined to believe Kerrigan's self-reported weight of 115 lbs., if it was indeed self-reported, than something nasty she said about someone else.

 

[bardtoob]

I'm pretty sure that all Olympic athletes must be measured for height and weight regardless of whether their sport has a weight requirement. Regardless, I would be more inclined to believe Kerrigan's self-reported weight of 115 lbs., if it was indeed self-reported, than something nasty she said about someone else.

Fair enough.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I remember Nancy Kerrigan saying that if she looked better at 100 but jumped better at 105, Evy Scotvold wanted her at 100.

That was either in "Little Girls In Pretty Boxes" or one of Christine Brennan's books. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember that line about Scotvold preferring a thinner Nancy over a more athletic Nancy.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Kaetlyn Osmond is also taller, same height as Gracie and curvier and she has gorgeous jumps. Elena Radionova is taller but thinner and struggles with the jumps.

In all honesty, some comments on here make me grateful that I was never a figure skater. Seeing comments about a healthy, athletic woman being hefty or how it's physics tha small=better jumper. Imagine being a skater and seeing those comments. Is it any wonder Gracie is struggling?

As has been mentioned, for each person, each body, height, muscle mas, shape, etc., the ideal skating "form" is different. If you take any skater, and add height (how many skater struggle with their jumps when they grow?) add hips and boobs (same problem)
add extra pounds...........you have problems. This is not anecdotal. Just look at all the skaters who did not and could not make it out of puberty. The formula is different for each skater (i.e. Tonya Harding v. Ashley v. Sasha) but there is still a formula for their build, muscle mass, muscle twitch, etc.

 

[mag]

As has been mentioned, for each person, each body, height, muscle mas, shape, etc., the ideal skating "form" is different. If you take any skater, and add height (how many skater struggle with their jumps when they grow?) add hips and boobs (same problem)
add extra pounds...........you have problems. This is not anecdotal. Just look at all the skaters who did not and could not make it out of puberty. The formula is different for each skater (i.e. Tonya Harding v. Ashley v. Sasha) but there is still a formula for their build, muscle mass, muscle twitch, etc.

Actually, that is the definition of "anecdotal." That said, body changes do require skaters to relearn skills. Some skaters are up to the task, other not. The reasons are probably quite varied. Many kids start skating because their parents put them in. For some, success at the early levels is quite easy. Body changes make it more difficult, they are no longer enjoying themselves, the move on to something else. Some are determined and work their way through. There are so many combinations of personality, support, coaching, training environment, etc etc that factor in to how and why skaters are successful. Growth is just easy to see so it becomes a convenient catch all excuse.

 

[Rob]

There should be more awareness of it. I hope times have changed, but I trained with a very well known Olympic level coach (not Frank) and I was told I was too fat on almost a daily basis. I didn't think it was wrong or mean at the time. I literally agreed with that notion and looking back I was in no way big at all. But I was a taller girl and did everything to make myself thinner. Sadly, if I would have been more healthy I probably would have been more successful.
So I hope Gracie's situation brings a spotlight on the fact that coaches, peers, media, etc exacerbate this situation. It is better to be healthy than extremely thin.
And I hate to play arm chair psychiatrist, but the inability to lose weight or feel your best can cause a cycle of depression and anxiety. Not trying to compare myself to this wonderful athlete, but I was 5'7 and weighed 97 lbs and still saw fat on me. It's a terrible disease.

It is a very strange little vacuum that you get yourself into when you are in dance, skating, gymnastics at a young age. I got down to 95 and 5'7" and I was still "too fat" for the unitard ballets -- I could do the romantic tutu ballets and other ballets with a skirt - so some choreographers actually changed their costume idea so I could perform! It is even in my report cards from school - "lovely technique and lines marred by a weight problem." So crazy because I was size 4-6 and when I look at pictures now, I think "WHAAAAAAAT, not fat, just had boobs/curves" but back then I thought I was fat - and that it was just a fact, not mean or unrealistic. If you compare my photos, I was thinner than some current major company ballerinas. I tried and tried to make myself throw up on a daily basis, but I just couldn't and wound up making it through without an ED, but with a messed up metabolism from trying not to eat. Unless you are born with the perfect natural physique, you will be pressured to trim down in these sports/arts.

 

[Cleo1782]

Actually, that is the definition of "anecdotal." That said, body changes do require skaters to relearn skills. Some skaters are up to the task, other not. The reasons are probably quite varied. Many kids start skating because their parents put them in. For some, success at the early levels is quite easy. Body changes make it more difficult, they are no longer enjoying themselves, the move on to something else. Some are determined and work their way through. There are so many combinations of personality, support, coaching, training environment, etc etc that factor in to how and why skaters are successful. Growth is just easy to see so it becomes a convenient catch all excuse.

Exactly. To kind of expand or almost switch subjects: I began skating at 4 because my cousin did and she liked it. My parents didn't think I'd do it as anything more than a hobby. In the US, we are not seeking out girls that have the right build at 5 or seem the most athletic, for the most part it is just a recreational sport. Once you start building success you have so many more worries. How you will grow? Do I need better coaches? Do I need ballet training and a personal trainer? And I honestly am only speaking for myself but I could control weight, per se, but I couldn't control where I gained it if I did or how tall I was going to be. And you have to realize by the time you get to a mid/major level of success often times your families have spent fortunes, they may have uprooted their own lives, spent hours taking you to and from practice and that can weigh on an athlete even as a teen, making every competition that more nerve wracking. And even at my level it was difficult to say-enough because I didn't like it anymore. Again, I am not saying that is what Gracie is doing, but you hear so often so and so had so much potential, but sometimes so and so just wanted to be a regular teen who got to go to school and prom and have a social life outside the rink as well.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Great post CLEO

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Exactly. To kind of expand or almost switch subjects: I began skating at 4 because my cousin did and she liked it. My parents didn't think I'd do it as anything more than a hobby. In the US, we are not seeking out girls that have the right build at 5 or seem the most athletic, for the most part it is just a recreational sport. Once you start building success you have so many more worries. How you will grow? Do I need better coaches? Do I need ballet training and a personal trainer? And I honestly am only speaking for myself but I could control weight, per se, but I couldn't control where I gained it if I did or how tall I was going to be. And you have to realize by the time you get to a mid/major level of success often times your families have spent fortunes, they may have uprooted their own lives, spent hours taking you to and from practice and that can weigh on an athlete even as a teen, making every competition that more nerve wracking. And even at my level it was difficult to say-enough because I didn't like it anymore. Again, I am not saying that is what Gracie is doing, but you hear so often so and so had so much potential, but sometimes so and so just wanted to be a regular teen who got to go to school and prom and have a social life outside the rink as well.

Great post.

It makes me almost think how Ashley and Mirai, being a few years older than Gracie, give the impression they are both in charge of and the bosses of their skating careers and choices at this point. Given their longevity in the sport, we have watched each walk through fire numerous times, yet emerge stronger on the other side.

This is completely speculative, of course. But I wonder if Gracie was still at the point where she felt both obliged and responsible to please other people, and not voice what she wanted to do with her skating. Each year seemed to present a different set of challenges. It must have been so difficult to constantly adapt and adjust.

I am glad she is finally able to take charge of her health and wellbeing ahead of aiming for medals. At the end of the day, that she is feeling less vulnerable and on the road to recovery is the most important thing.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

That was either in "Little Girls In Pretty Boxes" or one of Christine Brennan's books. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember that line about Scotvold preferring a thinner Nancy over a more athletic Nancy.

It's crazy to think Little Girls In Pretty Boxes was written over twenty years ago. Yet history keeps repeating itself over and over in both sports.

 

[AxelAnnie]

It's crazy to think Little Girls In Pretty Boxes was written over twenty years ago. Yet history keeps repeating itself over and over in both sports.

Not really. The sport demands more than ever which puts more and not demand on skaters bodies. You can't control your height or body type. You can make the most of it. And one component is weight as well as stamina and strength.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Not really. The sport demands more than ever which puts more and not demand on skaters bodies. You can't control your height or body type. You can make the most of it. And one component is weight as well as stamina and strength.

I should probably have been clearer in my original post. Meaning, that eating disorders are still around, because of certain skaters with certain body types trying to meet the technical demands expected from competing at the top elite level.

 

[Cleo1782]

Great post.

It makes me almost think how Ashley and Mirai, being a few years older than Gracie, give the impression they are both in charge of and the bosses of their skating careers and choices at this point. Given their longevity in the sport, we have watched each walk through fire numerous times, yet emerge stronger on the other side.

This is completely speculative, of course. But I wonder if Gracie was still at the point where she felt both obliged and responsible to please other people, and not voice what she wanted to do with her skating. Each year seemed to present a different set of challenges. It must have been so difficult to constantly adapt and adjust.

I am glad she is finally able to take charge of her health and wellbeing ahead of aiming for medals. At the end of the day, that she is feeling less vulnerable and on the road to recovery is the most important thing.

Thank you.
I can only imagine the pressure Gracie was under being the 'it' girl, having sponsors, endorsements, making money, and being so talented everyone just told her to continue. She is so, so talented us fans want her to skate forever. But being immensely talented is an amazing key to success, but not the only one. And what someone wants as a 17 yr can change when you become an adult. The pressure she faced is so enormous and some thrive on it, but some don't. It doesn't make her a bad person, but she has her whole life ahead of her.
If Gracie decided to come back-I would be the biggest cheerleader ever, but if not I can understand. The life of a skater can be so very isolating. And sometimes people just need an out. It is sad if these are part of the reasons why she is struggling, but I can see it as a possibility.
Again, I hate to sit on a soapbox and say this is why. I don't know. This is her life and her struggles, but there are so many factors that could come into this. And all we can do is wish her the best.
I just want to put it out there that even skaters with okay success feel so much pressure to please those around them and what they have done for them and I am sure it is magnified by 1000 with Gracie.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Thank you.
I can only imagine the pressure Gracie was under being the 'it' girl, having sponsors, endorsements, making money, and being so talented everyone just told her to continue. She is so, so talented us fans want her to skate forever. But being immensely talented is an amazing key to success, but not the only one. And what someone wants as a 17 yr can change when you become an adult. The pressure she faced is so enormous and some thrive on it, but some don't. It doesn't make her a bad person, but she has her whole life ahead of her.
If Gracie decided to come back-I would be the biggest cheerleader ever, but if not I can understand. The life of a skater can be so very isolating. And sometimes people just need an out. It is sad if these are part of the reasons why she is struggling, but I can see it as a possibility.
Again, I hate to sit on a soapbox and say this is why. I don't know. This is her life and her struggles, but there are so many factors that could come into this. And all we can do is wish her the best.
I just want to put it out there that even skaters with okay success feel so much pressure to please those around them and what they have done for them and I am sure it is magnified by 1000 with Gracie.

For me, the hardest part about enjoying the sport is, when a skater is struggling, there is no pause button to stop and regroup. Each season is so much longer and multi - layered now, for any athlete facing challenges, competition and training must at times feel like a runaway train. Especially in this Olympic year, where next February is mere months away.

 

[Vagabond]

For me, the hardest part about enjoying the sport is, when a skater is struggling, there is no pause button to stop and regroup. Each season is so much longer and multi - layered now, for any athlete facing challenges, competition and training must at times feel like a runaway train. Especially in this Olympic year, where next February is mere months away.

This is one of the best arguments that I have ever read why the U.S.F.S.A. should use Nationals results to determine its World and Olympic Teams.

 

[AxelAnnie]

This is one of the best arguments that I have ever read why the U.S.F.S.A. should use Nationals results to determine its World and Olympic Teams.

Ha! to me that supports the Body of Work argument!

 

[Sylvia]

Gracie Gold brave in taking leave from figure skating to tackle personal issues (column by Eric Adelson): https://sports.yahoo.com/gracie-gol...skating-tackle-personal-issues-193414906.html

“We really applaud her for her courage and honesty,” says Claire Mysko, CEO of the National Eating Disorders Association. “There is a tremendous amount of stigma with eating disorders, so someone with a public profile like her really has a positive impact on a much broader impact for those who feel shame about reaching out.”
...
“Athletes are at increased risk,” says Mysko. “That’s another aspect of her statement that has a positive impact. It educates the public.”
And part of the education is the link between eating disorders and other issues like depression and anxiety. The three often weave together in nefarious ways, and Gold naming all three will also be reassuring to those who can’t fully grasp what they’re going through.
“Thirty million Americans struggle with eating disorders at some point in their lives,” says Mysko. “This doesn’t often get discussed in the context of mental health.”

 

[dramagrrl]

It's interesting to me that most of the opinions that are claiming to be "realistic" about weight requirements and EDs or lack thereof in the sport and influenced by it are from people who were either former skaters themselves or are still involved in skating in some way. Being within that culture seems to make it difficult to step away from the idea that figure skating (and gymnastics, ballet, etc.) "realistically" requires a certain body type and weight range and therefore doesn't influence EDs, or that the aesthetic of extreme thinness and weight loss will always get you ahead in the sport.

Every female I know who was seriously involved (at a near-elite level) in figure skating or gymnastics dealt with disordered eating or full-blown EDs at some point in their lives, and many continued to have unrealistic expectations about weight and eating once they left the sport. Even the girls who were tiny as teenagers and through puberty believed they had to consistently diet in order to maintain the appearance needed to stay successful.

Trying to say that the sport doesn't influence the development of EDs at a much higher rate than young women who are not involved in figure skating is ridiculous. Yes, the sport favours a certain body type. However, to believe that young women (often very young women who aren't even legally adults yet) can fully process that and think, after years of training, "Oh, looks like those three inches and ten pounds I gained mean I'm never going to land those triples; I should just quit while I'm ahead" is not realistic at all. Obviously, many of these girls will try to achieve the body type required by any means possible, whether through restrictive dieting, purging, extreme workouts beyond their usual training, etc. When judges are rewarding them for showing up at competitions ten pounds thinner and coaches are praising them for their weight loss, they're not going to suddenly realize that what they are doing is destructive.

I feel for Gracie and think she is extremely brave to go through this rough time publicly. I wish her all the best in finding the help she needs to get herself to a happier place.