Shooting in Las Vegas

[TOADS]

If I was killed in one of these gun attacks, I would want photos of my dead bloodied body released to the press. The more graphic the better.

The media feels it needs to "sanitize" pictures and images so as to not "upset" the general public. What a crock. If they are worried about affecting younger people, have you seen some of these video games lately?

Images can go a long way to changing the course of history. Most notable is the picture shot during the Tet Offensive in 1968 of the police official putting a bullet in the head of a Viet Cong prisoner. That image did more to galvanize the anti war movement than any other from that war. The media got raked over the coals for publishing that image.

In the attacks on the World trade center, the most telling images were people jumping out of the towers. Those were pulled about a half an hour into the attack by the media.

I totally agree, show it all.

It could go a long way in shaking people up to action. keeping graphic images from the people make it easier for politicians to defend their unpopular positions. If they showed images of the dead children from the Sandy Hook shooting, a pro-gun politician would have a very hard defending his position to people who have seen the images.

 

[MacMadame]

Anti-choice people show gristly pictures of (supposedly) aborted fetuses because they know the power of being graphic. I think showing real pictures would have even more impact.

 

[skatesindreams]

From the Los Angeles Times: "How Do You Stop A Sniper?"
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sniper-tactics-police-20171005-story.html

 

[BittyBug]

The NRA's hold on Congress:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html

 

[skatesindreams]

UGH!

 

[ilovepaydays]

Here’s a thought I’ve been having (and if this has already been discussed or if it’s dumb, I apologize): Why wasn’t there (and should there be) some sort of alarm on the windows to go off if they are broken? Just thinking about ways things could have been noticed earlier.

 

[rfisher]

Here’s a thought I’ve been having (and if this has already been discussed or if it’s dumb, I apologize): Why wasn’t there (and should there be) some sort of alarm on the windows to go off if they are broken? Just thinking about ways things could have been noticed earlier.

Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to alarm every window in a multi story hotel??? It's not a prison.

 

[missing]

The gunman also scouted locations in Chicago and Boston.

 

[snoopy]

Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to alarm every window in a multi story hotel??? It's not a prison.

Similar to what I said on the other thread, this could be what moves legislation. If things get bad enough where businesses have to ante up big bucks for security, they are going to call on the government to do something.

Wheeeee! Big Business vs. the NRA.

 

[skatesindreams]

Some survivors speak:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/us/inside-the-las-vegas-massacre/index.html

 

[puglover]

Just a question for Vash or anyone more informed than I - how do the pro-gun advocates that see the solution as putting more guns in the hands of the public explain the fact statistics for suicide by gun, accidental shootings and mass shootings in the United States are so out of whack with the rest of the civilized world?

 

[rfisher]

Just a question for Vash or anyone more informed than I - how do the pro-gun advocates that see the solution as putting more guns in the hands of the public explain the fact statistics for suicide by gun, accidental shootings and mass shootings in the United States are so out of whack with the rest of the civilized world?

They don't even attempt to answer that question. Moreover, the pro gun lobby isn't interested in putting more guns in the hands of people who don't currently have one. Those people aren't part of the pro gun faction. It's all based on fear that what they have will be taken away. The gun/ammo manufacturers do an excellent job of instilling fear. Sales will blossom with this shooting because the meme will be "buy now before we can't buy tomorrow." As I've said before, a fully pro gun Congress and WH is bad for sales. Sales increase when the social medial meme is they're going to take away your guns and your right to own them.

 

[Tinami Amori]

post from SS. removed.

 

[PRlady]

@puglover - They deny the statistics, or claim that many more lives have been saved by good guys having guns to defend themselves and their families. It's alternate reality, again.

Also, gun ownership correlates with party affiliation unbelievably closely: https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/915933958583586816

 

[Jenny]

Just a question for Vash or anyone more informed than I - how do the pro-gun advocates that see the solution as putting more guns in the hands of the public explain the fact statistics for suicide by gun, accidental shootings and mass shootings in the United States are so out of whack with the rest of the civilized world?

People on the ground will tell you that even those who had their own guns were helpless in this situation.

The artist who performed earlier that night and who has now emphatically reversed his stance on gun control said in an interview that several of his crew were licensed to carry concealed weapons. However, they could not get to them in time, and for those who were carrying on their person, in the chaos they had no idea where the shots were coming from, and even if they had, they had the wrong weapons to fire back at that distance.

Importantly, they also said they would not have drawn their weapons even if they thought the shooter was within range, for fear of police, security and bystanders thinking they were the shooters.

 

[Kruss]

My BIL is still in Vegas; the lockdown is still taking place. Shows have been canceled for his artist through next Thursday. I'm hoping he's able to get home for some time with the family before he's back on the road. At this point, they could all do with some family together time.

 

[Jenny]

He also shot and hit 2 fuel tanks in Las Vegas Airport… That’s something. Mandalay Bay is the LAST tower hotel on the strip, and closest to reach airport grounds. If shooter had rocket launchers he could hit aircrafts and the 2 hangars close the music venue.

Indeed.

 

[Vash01]

My BIL is still in Vegas; the lockdown is still taking place. Shows have been canceled for his artist through next Thursday. I'm hoping he's able to get home for some time with the family before he's back on the road. At this point, they could all do with some family together time.

Are people able to leave Vegas?

 

[Kruss]

I don't know. He said this morning that nobody really knows exactly when they'll be able to leave. He's got a semi full of music and stage equipment, so he can't leave without his truck. I don't know if he and others with him are being delayed because of their trucks or what. This is my speculation because, again, he said no one really knows when they'll be able to leave.

 

[snoopy]

- They refuse to accept that a person/group which intends to commit a mass murder has and used other just a deadly options: trucks, explosives, chemical attacks (UK), etc. If a gun = murder of (on an average) 10-15 people, we have examples of truck/explosive/chemical = murder of 10-15 people. So why restrict guns, and not the other consumer items?

Chemicals and bomb making material are highly regulated. More so than guns. You can't buy more than X of certain materials that can be used in explosives without certain licenses. Storage facilities are inspected, etc.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-explosives-united-states
https://www.epa.gov/regulatory-information-topic/regulatory-information-topic-toxic-substances

The argument usually goes the other way. Why can we regulate chemicals and explosives but *not* guns?

 

[TOADS]

A couple of days ago I suggested he should be checked for a brain tumor.

I told my next door neighbor this and she teaches nursing in Boston. She talked to a couple of her colleagues as well as a couple of doctors and they indicated that a slow growing brain tumor could gradually change someone behavior with the behavior becoming stranger as time went on.

All of them agree that it is strange that no none has brought up the subject of an autopsy being performed on Paddock.

This whole thing is getting curiouser and curiouser.....

 

[skatesindreams]

It should certainly be suggested; if it hasn't already been done.

 

[Vash01]

A couple of days ago I suggested he should be checked for a brain tumor.

I told my next door neighbor this and she teaches nursing in Boston. She talked to a couple of her colleagues as well as a couple of doctors and they indicated that a slow growing brain tumor could gradually change someone behavior with the behavior becoming stranger as time went on.

All of them agree that it is strange that no none has brought up the subject of an autopsy being performed on Paddock.

This whole thing is getting curiouser and curiouser.....

I don't think they will publish any information until after the investigation is completed.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Chemicals and bomb making material are highly regulated. More so than guns. You can't buy more than X of certain materials that can be used in explosives without certain licenses. Storage facilities are inspected, etc.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-explosives-united-states
https://www.epa.gov/regulatory-information-topic/regulatory-information-topic-toxic-substances

The argument usually goes the other way. Why can we regulate chemicals and explosives but *not* guns?

Yes, chemicals are regulated. And yet attacks using chemicals take place, rather frequently in Europe as of lately. Plus, chemicals can be bought by same person, in different locations, or en-mass illegally, or created privately.... or many other ways. One does not need too much to create an explosive or a chemical device to mutilate or kill a group of people. Pressure cooker and nails are not regulated... and yet...

The point is: if one or a group is intensively planning to murder a group of people, there are MANY methods to do so, without guns.

Next to "Las Vegas Village" where the concert was held there is a ARCO gas station. All you need is minor equipment and a match...

Next to "Beautiful Life" venue around Freemont Street between 6th and 11th, there is TEXACO station....

 

[Vash01]

Yes, chemicals are regulated. And yet attacks using chemicals take place, rather frequently in Europe as of lately. Plus, chemicals can be bought by same person, in different locations, or en-mass illegally, or created privately.... or many other ways. One does not need too much to create an explosive or a chemical device to mutilate or kill a group of people. Pressure cooker and nails are not regulated... and yet...

The point is: if one or a group is intensively planning to murder a group of people, there are MANY methods to do so, without guns.

And yet guns are the most frequently used weapon in mass murders and it is the least regulated (outside of knives). That should point to something.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And yet guns are the most frequently used weapon in mass murders and it is the least regulated (outside of knives). That should point to something.

If we take a death toll count in last 2 years from mass attacks in Europe, more came from Trucks, Explosions, Knives, and Chemical attacks. UK, France, Germany, Belgium, etc.
Would you like numbers? or do you remember from the info in the press?

Regulating "average citizen" from owning guns, does not stop those who intend to commit a mass murder who can get them ILLEGALLY; if they set their mind on committing a crime, they'll find weapons.

If a government of a given country GUARANTEE to its citizens that criminals and terrorists will NEVER get their hands on guns, then i am all for "no gun" policy. But we don't have such guarantee...

The days of "when Eddie Haskell's worst crime in the neighborhood was climbing through Beaver's window" are over...
http://www.worldlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/product_detail_826663118629.jpg

... and so are the charming midnight walks in the towns of La Dolce Vita ...
https://holidayhouseroma.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/via-veneto-stroll1.jpg

.....now you have to fight for yourself and your property....

 

[WildRose]

Are people able to leave Vegas?

Yes. My niece was there and was not injured. She is back in Alberta.

 

[ballettmaus]

If we take a death toll count in last 2 years from mass attacks in Europe, more came from Trucks, Explosions, Knives, and Chemical attacks. UK, France, Germany, Belgium, etc.
Would you like numbers? or do you remember from the info in the press?

Gun deaths in the US is one medium, in one country. Trucks, explosives, knives and chemical attacks and UK, France, Germany and Belgium are four mediums and four countries. If you want to give an accurate comparison, you have to pick one country and one medium. Just saying.

 

[Susan1]

Are people able to leave Vegas?

There have been people from this area (Dayton-Columbus, Ohio) who have come home and been interviewed on the news.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Gun deaths in the US is one medium, in one country. Trucks, explosives, knives and chemical attacks and UK, France, Germany and Belgium are four mediums and four countries. If you want to give an accurate comparison, you have to pick one country and one medium. Just saying.

At this point in the general discussion about guns, both North America and Europe are thrown into the same conversation and used as "examples". One of the arguments is "look at Europe, they have strict gun laws". Reality: mass murders by means other than guns.

The other argument, on US territory: Chicago has strictest gun regulations yet has one of the highest number of street shooting/murders. Street gun fire and gang related murders in USA, are higher in numbers than those from terrorist attacks/mass murders.