U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[Jun Y]

And I love "Hamilton" the musical, including "The Room Where it Happens"... and Jason's choreo is complex... and he sells it... I cannot put my finger on why it is not quite right. I like it, but keep thinking they should choose a different mix of tracks.

So here is my theory about why "Room Where It Happens" does not work. It is literally detached and about a man standing outside of the story in limbo. The rousing, infectious actions (eg, My Shot, Yorktown), or the sentimental, emotional stuff (eg, Burn, One Last Time), or just plain biographical songs (eg, Alexandar Hamilton, Who Tells Your Story), are all more likely to involve the audience or easy to perform and express. Even the satirical King George songs or the Schuyler sisters' songs are better.

Although LMM chose to use Burr as a device to tell Hamilton's story (a debatable artistic choice) in the musical, his songs are problematic for short, simple, straightforward adaptation into a skating program. All of Burr's songs are poor choice for skating because of his indirect viewpoint and distance.

 

[wickedwitch]

I really think Max should go back to the Bullfighter SP. I think he could turn that into something iconic. The Les Mis program is fine, but it's nothing special. Others have used the same music more effectively. Plus, the PCS he receive were not very good.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

He did put in a lot of effort.


For Max I would go 1-2 points more but not 4. but I found the music really grating - just dislike the singing a lot.

Yes!! The singing made my throat hurt. Really singing on the vocal cords..

 

[Kultakissu]

I have to agree. It's not that this program is bad, but it's certainly disappointing.

If Jason really really wants to skate to Hamilton, but Rohene is not able to deliver, Jason should go to another choreographer who can, because I'm sure there are numerous choreographers who can do a better job on this subject. I know this is unlikely to happen.

Or - and this is just an idea - the choreo isn't objectively bad, it's just that you personally don't like it?

I happen to think this SP is the best Jason has had since Prince, and has the potential to be even better when he goes clean, imo. And even though I'm a fan of Jason, I've not liked the choreo of any of the SPs he's done since Prince. I may want to forget Juke ever existed, but I still wouldn't say it's objectively bad - just not to my taste.

 

[VGThuy]

I really think his cut and his choreography and way he chooses to express the music doesn't really go with the content of the song, which I do think is a choreographer issue. But I also think Jason probably wanted to skate to it that way. I just think song has a lot going on with multiple parties and he's doing IJS transitions and SP elements while so much lyrical content is happening and I find that to be somewhat of a dissonance. It's such a weird song for his team to choose for a competitive short program considering it's not an introduction to anything but in the middle of the story where the audience should already know these characters and what's going on in the plot.

 

[jlai]

I have to admit, the vast majority of Jason's programs are not the my taste, BUT the ones I do like, I remember them for a long time.

 

[Kultakissu]

Maybe I like it because I don't know Hamilton the musical at all? It doesn't bother me because I can look past all of that and because I don't care how the song relates to the rest of the show...I imagine it must be different if you know the musical and especially if you're a big fan of it? Tbh I can't even hear most of the lyrics, pretty much all I remember is the word sausage somewhere in there

ETA Sorry, I meant to quote you VIETgrlTerifa

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe I like it because I don't know Hamilton the musical at all? It doesn't bother me because I can look past all of that and because I don't care how the song relates to the rest of the show...I imagine it must be different if you know the musical and especially if you're a big fan of it? Tbh I can't even hear most of the lyrics, pretty much all I remember is the word sausage somewhere in there

I was wondering if people who weren't familiar with the show would take to all the voices and lyrics going on. I'm glad you like it.

Just as an aside, they talk about "sausage" because Aaron Burr is jealous that Alexander Hamilton is privately meeting with Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (an unlikely trio) and they discuss a compromise to move the U.S. capital to Washington D.C. from New York (closer to Jefferson and the South) in exchange for their support of his National Bank, which many of the founding fathers were against because they saw it as creating a big government that they just fought a revolution to not have...though the failure of the Articles of Confederation made it obvious there needed to be a stronger federal government than the one that they had before. The sausage line is about how you don't want to see how political compromises and laws are made just like how you never want to see how sausage is made, you just want to see the end product.

 

[Kultakissu]

I was wondering if people who weren't familiar with the show would take to all the voices and lyrics going on. I'm glad you like it.

Just as an aside, they talk about "sausage" because Aaron Burr is jealous that Alexander Hamilton is privately meeting with Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (an unlikely trio) and they discuss a compromise to move the U.S. capital to Washington D.C. from New York (closer to Jefferson and the South) in exchange for their support of his National Bank, which many of the founding fathers were against because they saw it as creating a big government that they just fought a revolution to not have...though the failure of the Articles of Confederation made it obvious there needed to be a stronger federal government than the one that they had before. The sausage line is about how you don't want to see how political compromises and laws are made just like how you never want to see how sausage is made, you just want to see the end product.

...aand now I'm hungry

 

[jlai]

I was wondering if people who weren't familiar with the show would take to all the voices and lyrics going on. I'm glad you like it.

Just as an aside, they talk about "sausage" because Aaron Burr is jealous that Alexander Hamilton is privately meeting with Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (an unlikely trio) and they discuss a compromise to move the U.S. capital to Washington D.C. from New York (closer to Jefferson and the South) in exchange for their support of his National Bank, which many of the founding fathers were against because they saw it as creating a big government that they just fought a revolution to not have...though the failure of the Articles of Confederation made it obvious there needed to be a stronger federal government than the one that they had before. The sausage line is about how you don't want to see how political compromises and laws are made just like how you never want to see how sausage is made, you just want to see the end product.

I didn't see the show. I also didn't pay attention to lyrics in general. I'd say unless this is a song people really resonate with, (like "Music of the Night"), avoid lyrics all together.

 

[Jun Y]

Or - and this is just an idea - the choreo isn't objectively bad, it's just that you personally don't like it?

I happen to think this SP is the best Jason has had since Prince, and has the potential to be even better when he goes clean, imo. And even though I'm a fan of Jason, I've not liked the choreo of any of the SPs he's done since Prince. I may want to forget Juke ever existed, but I still wouldn't say it's objectively bad - just not to my taste.

It's always the case. Nothing in skating is objective except on the number of revolutions.

Also I did not say the program is bad. In fact a few posts ago I specifically said it's NOT bad, but disappointing.

 

[chapis]

Max is missing at least four points. How the hell did that only get 86?

His best SP, IMO. Dare I say it, the StSq is the highlight, not the two quads. The way it builds with the music. The way he throws himself into it. Only a blind, idiotic fool would look at the Max of five years ago and this Max and not see the improvement.

I was super bored watching him and I was about to stop the video, finally I decided watch it all and really the step seq was really good, I hope they fix the rest of the program.

About Nathan I liked the program and his performance, reminds me of the Prince program of Yuzu. Some moves and the style of skating, but even same posture issues, slightly less severe.
To difference from Eteri´s students, Nathan and Yuzu´s transitions makes sense, IMO.

 

[Skittl1321]

The sausage line is about how you don't want to see how political compromises and laws are made just like how you never want to see how sausage is made, you just want to see the end product.

I have always thought of it more as how you DON'T get to see it, not that you don't want to see it. It just happens and you don't know how. Burr wants to know how.

It's a weird choice for a short program, IMO. Though I think skaters should skate things that resonate with them, and my guess is when Jason thinks about wanting to be in the room where it happens, he means the Olympics; he wants to be where it happens. And he is willing to kill founding fathers to make it happen. Or maybe not that part.

 

[Kultakissu]

It's always the case. Nothing in skating is objective except on the number of revolutions.

Also I did not say the program is bad. In fact a few posts ago I specifically said it's NOT bad, but disappointing.

My bad - I was referring to the part where you said "Rohene can't deliver" or something along those lines, because I thought he delivered fine. I should have made that clear. It's just a pet peeve of mine - and I do it myself often enough if I'm not careful - when people state subjective opinions as facts. I think it's one thing to say "I didn't enjoy this, I'd like to see what another choreographer could do with this" compared to "he can't deliver".

I'm sorry for kind of taking it out on you just cos I happen to be feeling extra prickly today

 

[VGThuy]

I have always thought of it more as how you DON'T get to see it, not that you don't want to see it. It just happens and you don't know how. Burr wants to know how.

It's a weird choice for a short program, IMO. Though I think skaters should skate things that resonate with them, and my guess is when Jason thinks about wanting to be in the room where it happens, he means the Olympics; he wants to be where it happens. And he is willing to kill founding fathers to make it happen. Or maybe not that part.

You're right in Burr's case. It's a play on the old idiom, "Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made."

 

[el henry]

I am someone who has never seen Hamilton (and I actually had the chance, I live 1.5 hours from NYC, sis scored tix for her family when Lin-Manuel and Leslie Odom Jr. and everyone else was still there, and I said, you want to pay *that* for a Broadway show, not happening); never listened to the soundtrack, and until Jason selected this as his short could not have told you one tune associated with the show:

It is really really growing on me. When I first saw it, with a fancam of the rap portion, I was like, oh please, this is not gonna work for skating, I don't know, the "music" is confusing, although I love the hook, ya dee ya dee. But every time I see it again, I think, OK, you *can* skate to the spoken word and the choreo makes sense. And I have a vague idea what's happening because I can understand the words, but I don't need an explication du texte to like the program or to understand it or to think it works. Maybe if I had a deep love or knowledge of Hamilton I'd feel differently.

Then again, I loved Juke, and I will go to my grave arguing that is an underappreciated sophisticated gem of a program. At least the judges agreed with me there.....

 

[Tavi]

Regarding why Jason's program doesn't quite seem to work yet: For me I don't think it's the choreo - I think nerves got in the way. I loved the show version he did at Sun Valley. It had fewer elements and a little more footwork (I think). He was very comfortable with it and it showed in his performance. He doesn't seem nearly as comfortable with this version yet. It's the Olympic year, his quads were MIA in practice the day before, and he is very invested in this program because he fought for the music. I felt like he struggled a bit with the performance so I wasn't as comfortable watching it. Hopefully he will do better with it next time out.

As to Max's st sq: what I liked was the twizzles he did, in both directions. But there was a fair amount of two foot skating.

As to Nathan's high PCS: he had a ton of transitions but I didn't feel like the rest of what he did warranted 44. Maybe 42.

 

[jlai]

As to Max's st sq: what I liked was the twizzles he did, in both directions. But there was a fair amount of two foot skating.

As to Nathan's high PCS: he had a ton of transitions but I didn't feel like the rest of what he did warranted 44. Maybe 42.

Yup. Max's footwork improved, but the other top guys had stunning footwork showing edges and such and should be +1 over Max's.
I personally think P. Chan should be at least 9.5 across the pcs categories on a good day; therefore, most guys, including Nathan, should be at least one point below in ss and maybe transitions.

 

[aftershocks]

Very interesting. I think we are all talking apples and oranges in a number of respects. How can we ever be satisfied with PCS scores, especially comparatively between skaters? The system and its application are problematic to begin with. And then there's always the overlay of politics and skater reputation (which is usually earned in one way or another, although not everyone tends to be rewarded equitably or fairly, especially from varying fan perspectives).

Re Jason's Hamilton music choice, it might be helpful to check out his video blog in which he discusses a little about how they picked "The Room Where It Happens." Jason doesn't go into great detail, but it's clear that he was determined to skate to music from the play, even though initially KoRo tried to talk him out of it. Once they all saw the play together and then listened to the music soundtrack, they began trying to make decisions about what music might work for a skating program. For me the program is really about Jason's exuberant energy, enthusiasm and passion, more than it is about Aaron Burr, rival to protagonist, Alexander Hamilton. As Jason explains his inspiration for ultimately picking that song: "I want to be in the room where it happens!" So that's the theme and the lyrical refrain that matters.

I think some of the comments here truly highlight the obvious: the choreo adapted to music from the play really must stand on its own. Jason's program should not be judged on the basis of the play at all. It should be judged on the basis of being a figure skating sp. Think of it as similar in some ways to adapting a book into a film. Ultimately, both are separate and must be judged on their individual merits. Of course there will be endless debates and comparisons, but in the end, each are different mediums with uniquely different requirements. The same goes for adapting music from a play or a movie to choreography for a skating program. Neither Hamilton, Aaron Burr, or the 'sausage' are things that a skating audience need to know about, or else every skating program would require a cheat sheet/ synopsis of the original source and background on the approach the adaptation takes, handed out to the audience before skaters compete. Just No!

I am reminded of the magical, mysterious choreography of Paul Taylor. You just have to go with the flow when you watch his dances. By not asking too many questions, but just watching and staying in tune with your emotions, the magic is revealed in ways that each individual experiences differently.

When Jason's short program debuted, I reserved judgment. I think Jason's programs always build over the course of a season. It has already grown since Jason's first performance. I also think there is a part of the choreographic process and cutting music process and laying out the elements process that we don't know a lot about unless some of us have an actual hands-on background in dance, music, choreography or learning/ creating choreo for skating.

Ah well, I loves me some JB skating to Rohene Ward's choreo. Throw a smattering of the genius of Lin-Man into the mix, and watch JB boogie down. Rarely is anything in fs ever perfect, but most good programs with meat on their bones are always evolving toward the perfect storm.

 

[VGThuy]

For me, it's the choreography plus the song and the lyrics that are being interpreted that doesn't work for me. If it was just an instrumental piece or a song with vague-ish lyrics, then that's one thing, but the lyrical content is heavy exposition and they chose to use parts that have that. It's more difficult to me to separate the source material from Jason's program because of such issues. If he was skating to "Steam Heat" from the Pajama Game, the only thing one needed to know about the show is why are the lyrics telling "the union" to get hot and otherwise he could do his own spin on the song since the lyrics isn't so exposition heavy. Plus apart from that, I'm not sure if some of the actual choreography goes with the mood of the music but some parts really hit the beat just right.

None of the above takes away anything from Jason the skater and Rohene as a choreographer. I just don't think this specific program works for me as of right now. They both have made magic for me before and I know they both will make magic again both together and separately.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Yeah sure. I get what you are saying and where you are coming from. But again, I prefer to enjoy Hamilton on its own merits, separate from Jason's inspiration to skate to music from the play, and vice versa. The selection of "The Room Where It Happens," is really about Jason being inspired, so I'm not too hung up on the details of the story the play tells necessarily taking away from Rohene's choreo or Jason's performance. There are always challenges I'm sure to the program creation process, no matter what music is selected or how it's cut and choreographed.

I didn't feel like the rest of what he did warranted 44. Maybe 42.

Pick a number. Some might say 39 or 38. I'm happy just saying: Nathan Slaythan Chen!

I think Nathan is cool and very talented. So is Shae Lynn Bourne. So is Coach Rafael. So is Benjamin Clementine. Ooooh Nemesis! Chills in a good way. It's edgy, modern, and gracefully elegant with a twist (reminiscent of but also showing growth beyond Nathan's exhibition vehicles). The piano and the vocals go together with the sly lyrics. Nathan evinces his usual subtle command and nonchalance, interlaced with a subtle challenge. And that's just what the theme and style of the music is about as well.

I love so many of the moving parts to the program that have nothing to do with the jumps: the angles, the edges, the leaps, the head, arm and hand movements enhancing the rhythm and the beat. And his spins have improved. It's great that Nathan & Raf are taking this building approach to the season, with a greater emphasis on Nathan's personality and creativity. There's so much to see and to take away from this program and performance. And it's only the beginning.

I noticed Raf discussing some things energetically with Nathan while they were waiting for his marks. Raf's hand gestures looked like they were maybe talking about some of the entrances and exits to elements based on the layout of the rink, or something like that.

 

[skateboy]

Jason's program should not be judged on the basis of the play at all.

I would agree with you, as long as it applies to ALL skaters performing to music from any opera, musical, movie, etc.

But viewers, including judges, are going to look for a connection to characters/scenes from the aforementioned genres... I'm afraid there's no getting around that.

 

[skateboy]

Deleted

 

[Tavi]

^^ Yeah sure. I get what you are saying and where you are coming from. But again, I prefer to enjoy Hamilton on its own merits, separate from Jason's inspiration to skate to music from the play, and vice versa. The selection of "The Room Where It Happens," is really about Jason being inspired, so I'm not too hung up on the details of the story the play tells necessarily taking away from Rohene's choreo or Jason's performance. There are always challenges I'm sure to the program creation process, no matter what music is selected or how it's cut and choreographed.



Pick a number. Some might say 39 or 38. I'm happy just saying: Nathan Slaythan Chen!

I think Nathan is cool and very talented. So is Shae Lynn Bourne. So is Coach Rafael. So is Benjamin Clementine. Ooooh Nemesis! Chills in a good way. It's edgy, modern, and gracefully elegant with a twist (reminiscent of but also showing growth beyond Nathan's exhibition vehicles). The piano and the vocals go together with the sly lyrics. Nathan evinces his usual subtle command and nonchalance, interlaced with a subtle challenge. And that's just what the theme and style of the music is about as well.

I love so many of the moving parts to the program that have nothing to do with the jumps: the angles, the edges, the leaps, the head, arm and hand movements enhancing the rhythm and the beat. And his spins have improved. It's great that Nathan & Raf are taking this building approach to the season, with a greater emphasis on Nathan's personality and creativity. There's so much to see and to take away from this program and performance. And it's only the beginning.

I noticed Raf discussing some things energetically with Nathan while they were waiting for his marks. Raf's hand gestures looked like they were maybe talking about some of the entrances and exits to elements based on the layout of the rink, or something like that.

For Nathan: I like the music, I basically like the program, but I personally don't feel like he's interpreting the music; rather, it feels to me like he's proving to us he can do other things than jump. But then, we all differ on that kind of thing. Skateboy and I are both musicians (well, he is, I used to be) and I believe he doesn't think that Jason interprets music much, whereas I feel the opposite. A chacun son goût.

 

[aftershocks]

I would agree with you, as long as it applies to ALL skaters performing to music from any opera, musical, movie, etc.

But viewers, including judges, are going to look for a connection to characters/scenes from the aforementioned genres... I'm afraid there's no getting around that.

Maybe so, because in a way those kinds of things are somewhat elusive and subjective in terms of individual personal experience. Even though there's the judging system, there's a lot of mystery about what goes on inside the minds of the judges truthfully. The best way to enjoy figure skating (and the hardest to achieve) is to ignore the friggin' judges and the protocols. But yep, we can't usually do that, mostly because when mistakes are made, or when we wonder about placements, we want to see what the judges' assessments are. However, when we have the good fortune to view a skater who's in-the-zone, the judge's marks are usually a happy afterthought -- the icing on the cake.

To be honest, I don't think the judging system requires the skaters to necessarily explicitly or literally portray a character or connect explicitly and overtly to scenes from an opera, musical, or play. Once again, that's because these genres only serve as inspiration and then the choreo and individual skaters' performances create something different that doesn't have to be an exact replica from the source material. Some programs are abstract and are about an idea or an emotion, not necessarily a character. When dealing with an opera, e.g., Salome, the skater (in this case a young Michelle Kwan) did not really embody the character. She embodied the music and the idea of sort of tempting the judges and mesmerizing them with her charms and claiming victory, even bloody, violent victory if necessary. Of course that 'violence' was only the larger metaphor of the opera's storyline underlying what the young Michelle was trying to do. She only wanted to show the judges that she was grown up and mature enough to skate like a lady/ temptress/ victor, and thereby claim gold.

I'm not really disagreeing with you in general. Of course some judges and audiences may be looking for literal connections, but I don't think the approach always has to be literal. In fact, it's more interesting and creative to sometimes take a different approach or develop a unique interpretation. All of this depends on the source material, the skater and where they are at in their career, and the choreographer's vision. Obviously, skaters and choreographers have different levels of talent and ability too, which is a factor in the level of success programs achieve. That's one of the reasons why we tend to be stuck with variations on war horses: there's not usually a lot of time available to try reinventing the wheel.

 

[aftershocks]

For Nathan: I like the music, I basically like the program, but I personally don't feel like he's interpreting the music; rather, it feels to me like he's proving to us he can do other things than jump. But then, we all differ on that kind of thing. Skateboy and I are both musicians (well, he is, I used to be) and I believe he doesn't think that Jason interprets music much, whereas I feel the opposite. A chacun son goût.

Aha! Like I always say in English.

That's interesting as a matter of fact. And it proves one of my earlier points: When we get into issues of apples and oranges, i.e., two top level talented skaters with subtly varying strengths and weaknesses, all kinds of factors are at play amongst viewers and judges that are elusive, mysterious, unconscious. We grapple with trying to explain why we feel the way we do about one skater and program, vs a different skater and program, or one skater and program, vs the same skater and a different program. Although surely some varying levels of talent and ability are measurable with a trained and experienced eye, it's more complex and subjective when talent level is high, yet skaters' styles are different. And then, let's not forget the politics and quad-based skater reputation factors.

C'est la vie. Figure skating can be glorious fun and it can be frustrating and complicated too, all at the same time.

 

[Willin]

I actually really love the choreography of Nathan's SP (particularly the opening and the step sequence), but it's so generic during and disconnected from the elements between jumps and spins. I suppose I can't fault him for that - a lot of skaters these days seem to have a prescribed set of steps before each specific pass that they do in every program. I do agree that he needs to kill the performance more. I know he can give face and be entertaining, so hopefully that will develop as the season goes on.

 

[misskarne]

I'm not sure why warhorses kept getting picked for him.

Oh, for fcuk's sake, this again. Every fcuking year.

At the same time, I hope I don't have to listen to how Max should get 90 pcs every time he skates.

Show me where I have ever said that Max is a 90 PCS skater. I've never said that. I've never said that because it's not true. Max isn't a 90 PCS skater. But neither is Chen. The only US men who are true 90 PCS skaters are Joshua and Jason. No-one else. But PCS has been fudged and mistreated.

To be honest, it looks to me like the judges had one PCS scale for Nathan and one for everyone else. I liked Nathan's program and thought he deserved good PCS but 44?

The whole competition has been set up as a "homecoming gift" for their precious new toy. Did you see the disgraceful article on NBC? They literally said that Chen was going to win even if he watered down his content. They were really quick to qualify that Max is a former National champion but he was only 9th last year. The whole article was Chen is the greatest and no-one else exists. It was quite disappointing because Zaccardi is better than that, usually.

All of Burr's songs are poor choice for skating because of his indirect viewpoint and distance.

Nah, I think Wait for It would have worked. You could cut that so that it would have been less distant. But I do think there were better choices than The Room Where It Happens. (The more I think about it, the more I really want a Yorktown program out of somebody.)

I really think Max should go back to the Bullfighter SP. I think he could turn that into something iconic.

He didn't want to. Is that not enough for some? Maybe he couldn't move past the disaster of Nationals mentally and chose to just move on.

Maybe I like it because I don't know Hamilton the musical at all? It doesn't bother me because I can look past all of that and because I don't care how the song relates to the rest of the show...I imagine it must be different if you know the musical and especially if you're a big fan of it?

I'm actually thinking that yeah, that could be the issue. I'm too in love with the music. (And Leslie Odom Jr's voice.)

For me, it's the choreography plus the song and the lyrics that are being interpreted that doesn't work for me. If it was just an instrumental piece or a song with vague-ish lyrics, then that's one thing, but the lyrical content is heavy exposition and they chose to use parts that have that. It's more difficult to me to separate the source material from Jason's program because of such issues.

Agreed the exposition is an issue.

 

[Tavi]

The whole article was Chen is the greatest and no-one else exists. It was quite disappointing because Zaccardi is better than that, usually.
-------
I'm too in love with the music. (And Leslie Odom Jr's voice.)

1. If you recall the Ice Talk season wrap up, Nick was all about Nathan, and to a lesser extent Vincent. So I'm not surprised about the article.

2. The good news beyond that is that Max looks much closer to his 2015 form than he did last season.

3. OT , but Leslie Odom is an amazing singer with a gorgeous voice!

4. I really hope Jason solves whatever is holding back those quads because it is really difficult to watch him keep falling.

 

[aftershocks]

I actually really love the choreography of Nathan's SP (particularly the opening and the step sequence), but it's so generic during and disconnected from the elements between jumps and spins. I suppose I can't fault him for that - a lot of skaters these days seem to have a prescribed set of steps before each specific pass that they do in every program. I do agree that he needs to kill the performance more. I know he can give face and be entertaining, so hopefully that will develop as the season goes on.

I tend to agree generally, especially with the bolded part. That's a fault of the system, within which creative choreographic minds have to work. However, this is only the program debut. It will evolve over the course of the season. I don't see a lot that's 'generic' about this program, especially not in music and concept. And keep in mind my below comments. Moments of perfection, snatches of brilliance; trying to claw to the top and then being toppled by circumstances (i.e., injuries and worn down boots ). Champions persevere. Also, try not to allow dislike of the music or something about the program, blind you to what's good about it.

I personally don't feel like [Nathan's] interpreting the music; rather, it feels to me like he's proving to us he can do other things than jump... I believe [Skateboy] doesn't think that Jason interprets music much, whereas I feel the opposite.

Yes, I get what you are saying and why you each feel differently about Nathan vs Jason. Actually, I see where they both have wonderful facility in musical interpretation in different ways that apparently don't connect well with every viewer.

IMO, Jason truly commits to his choreography and he joyfully tells a story to the music, whereas Nathan is in the process of evolving and learning in the direction of committing fully to his choreography. I think Nathan has always intellectually and competitively connected to his choreography, but not necessarily with full emotion and expressiveness because he's still maturing. OTOH, I believe Nathan always connects to his music (even though he looks casual doing it, but he does skate to the music and not over it). He has this feeling for the music because he plays a musical instrument, and he's performed to ballet. Both Nathan and Jason are precocious in different ways, but they are both uniquely gifted. Another thing that sets them both apart from the field is their strength of mind and tough, competitive instincts.

We have to remember too, that in figure skating, no matter how good you are, there's always a mountain to climb. Most skaters never reach the top. Perhaps the greatest only clawed their way to a view of the mountaintop before falling down and having to struggle upwards again, and then often forced to retire before there was time to ascend further. This doesn't mean none of them won medals. It's just hard to be perfect. Some skaters have been perfect in moments, and some once or twice in a program or two. Janet Lynn probably came closest to perfection I think. And John Curry too, but both of them in different ways. (Lynn more fully heart and spirit, mixed with grace; Curry part intellectually, and part heart mixed with courage). Also Toller Cranston (heart, creative mind, weird mysterious offbeat genius).