U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

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JGP Riga SP results:
Tomoki HIWATASHI 5th (61.35) - jumps: 2A, 2Lz, second half 3F+3T<: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GudRj4ghAq0
Maxim NAUMOV 9th (57.64) in his debut; jumps - fell on opening 3A which was called rotated, 3F+1T(-3 GOE), second half 3Lz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lX-UmDumnQ
FS is Saturday.

Bringing up this August 19 post again:
Sylvia said:
[2] men were added recently to USFS' International Selection Pool:
Goku Endo (Int6 at 2017 Nationals)
Nicholas Hsieh (Int2)
...
Endo and Hsieh have the top 2 scores (160+) this summer at the Novice level
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Joining Hsieh (#4 in Minsk) on the JGP will be Endo (assigned to #5 in Zagreb with Krasnozhon and Kaitlyn Nguyen with whom Endo shares coaches Dinev and Nikodinov), as confirmed on USFS' International Assignments page: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84032&menu=TeamUSA

Added to the ISP after this past weekend's Golden West club competition were Paul Yeung, 17 (N6 at Nationals) and Patrick Frohling, 18 (N8 at Nationals) who went 1-2 in Junior Men, both scoring over 170 points.
 
Tomoki Hiwatashi, 17, skated a relatively clean, conservative (for him) free skate and won the bronze in Riga! This was his 2nd bronze medal in his 3rd JGP season. Doug Ladret coached him in Riga.
2017 Novice champ Maxim Naumov, 16, finished 8th in his JGP debut. He was coached by his father, Vadim Naumov, in Riga.

Final standings:
3 Tomoki HIWATASHI
USA.GIF
USA 189.89 5 3
8 Maxim NAUMOV
USA.GIF
USA 163.66 9 9

Hiwatashi's FS (128.54, credited with rotating 6 of 7 triples cleanly) to Last of the Mohicans soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lssqzi68LU

Naumov's FS to a cover version of "Who Wants to Live Forever" (106.02, 3A fall was called < today, landed 5 triples): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZtK_Lg4Fvc
 
Marco said:
Time for Tomoki to up his power and expression. That program was a little dull.
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Oh, I am sorry I must disagree. Tomoki's program itself is riveting, particularly compared with what many junior men get as programs (And yes, I'm looking at you, Russian junior men who appear to get choreographic crumbs from your fed. You deserve better). And being able to execute those steps, those spins, and that Russian split ... I find that powerful.

Could Tomoki up his expression and performance quotient to match what Rohene has given him? Yes, he's not my boy Andrew Torgashev yet (I've liked Andrew's programs, but what I wouldn't give to see Andrew with a Rohene program:gallopin1) But dull? Nah, I don't see that....
 
el henry said:
Oh, I am sorry I must disagree. Tomoki's program itself is riveting, particularly compared with what many junior men get as programs (And yes, I'm looking at you, Russian junior men who appear to get choreographic crumbs from your fed. You deserve better). And being able to execute those steps, those spins, and that Russian split ... I find that powerful.

Could Tomoki up his expression and performance quotient to match what Rohene has given him? Yes, he's not my boy Andrew Torgashev yet (I've liked Andrew's programs, but what I wouldn't give to see Andrew with a Rohene program:gallopin1) But dull? Nah, I don't see that....
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It was dull to me because he was dull. The choreography was detailed and that last spin was insane, but he had so little facial or arm expression it's like he didn't care for the music at all. I also wish the program/ music had some more light and shade.
 
Hersh's article on Nathan Chen ahead of his competition debut in SLC later this week: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/09/12/253866186
Excerpts:
"For the most part, people are expecting brilliant from me every time out, and that's also something I'm expecting of myself," he said in a telephone interview last week. "But I have to be wary of going super hard too fast to make sure I am at my best in the important events, instead of peaking at the beginning."
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Lori Nichol choreographed his FS (music not yet revealed):
He said his free, choreographed by the venerable Lori Nichol, would still have a lot of balletic movement "but not be centered around ballet."

"Being able to (use ballet) last season helped me set a good level for who I am artistically," Chen said. "But I tend to enjoy skating a more contemporary style. That comes out in my show programs."
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Sylvia said:
Hersh's article on Nathan Chen ahead of his competition debut in SLC later this week: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/09/12/253866186
Excerpts:

Lori Nichol choreographed his FS (music not yet revealed):
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Thanks, Sylvia.

He is likely to do one quad in the SP and 2 quads in the LP at SLC later this week. I think he is smart to pace himself. It also sounds like he is backloading the SP, starting out w/ a 3A
 
Good debuts in sp by Jason Brown and Jordan Moeller at Lombardia (i.e. Jordan skated clean with lovely long lines and choreo; and Jason was great aesthetically as usual with wonderful spins and great music interpretation, high split jump and good overall technique, despite fall on opening quad, and slight two-foot on 3-axel, according to protocols).

Re quad: Jason seemed to lift well in the air with good form. Otherwise, he had a slight lean in the air and he did not control the landing, which seems to me by now more a mental barrier to cross than a lack of physical/ technical ability.
 
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I thought that the ladies were going to have a hard time getting to the Olympics, but the men this weekend are shaping up for a good competition on their side as well. Chen, Aaron, and Brown all scored over 80 (though Jason's quad still doesn't look great), and Moeller and Dolensky are both over 70. It'll be interesting to see how this season shapes up.

Still not liking Jason's SP. Hamilton has so much good music, and I love the song he's skating to, but honestly the music cuts and the song he chose just aren't working out.
 
The men and ladies will be a bloodbath at Nationals, but I think the men will have it worse. Thank goodness there are 3 spots in both disciplines.

Chen's scores will get higher as he works in the 4Z and a 4F-3T. He and Raf purposely kept it simpler for this competition, according to his most recent interview. I assume he doesn't want to wear himself down. Smart move.
 
BTW, did Zhou WD from the Autumn Classic next week? I could've sworn I saw his name w/ Miner on the list just days ago. I see he is slated for Finlandia w/ Miner in October. Maybe that is what I saw (??)
 
olympic said:
BTW, did Zhou WD from the Autumn Classic next week? I could've sworn I saw his name w/ Miner on the list just days ago. I see he is slated for Finlandia w/ Miner in October. Maybe that is what I saw (??)
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You're remembering correctly. He was listed, but his name disappeared a few days ago.
 
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Max is missing at least four points. How the hell did that only get 86?

His best SP, IMO. Dare I say it, the StSq is the highlight, not the two quads. The way it builds with the music. The way he throws himself into it. Only a blind, idiotic fool would look at the Max of five years ago and this Max and not see the improvement.
 
misskarne said:
Max is missing at least four points. How the hell did that only get 86?

His best SP, IMO. Dare I say it, the StSq is the highlight, not the two quads. The way it builds with the music. The way he throws himself into it. Only a blind, idiotic fool would look at the Max of five years ago and this Max and not see the improvement.
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He has improved. But 4 points from where, exactly?
 
Tavi said:
He has improved. But 4 points from where, exactly?
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I cannot believe I am saying it, but Max could use a few more points on PCS. I agree that he is improved- maybe the first time ever I feel that the music and his movements naturally flow together. He put in a lot of effort and I'd like to see it rewarded.
I also hope he keeps at it. Sometimes Max would present a good program early in the year, and by the main starts what would be left seemed like a skeleton. I hope he keeps what he has, and that his components grow a bit.
 
Willin said:
Still not liking Jason's SP. Hamilton has so much good music, and I love the song he's skating to, but honestly the music cuts and the song he chose just aren't working out.
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I have to agree. It's not that this program is bad, but it's certainly disappointing.

If Jason really really wants to skate to Hamilton, but Rohene is not able to deliver, Jason should go to another choreographer who can, because I'm sure there are numerous choreographers who can do a better job on this subject. I know this is unlikely to happen.
 
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dinakt said:
I cannot believe I am saying it, but Max could use a few more points on PCS. I agree that he is improved- maybe the first time ever I feel that the music and his movements naturally flow together. He put in a lot of effort and I'd like to see it rewarded.
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Les Mis and Bring him home has been done by many other skaters. People still remember Paul Wylie's Bring Him Home. You have to be outstanding in your presentation to stand out in that program. I wish Max kept last year's short. I'm not sure why warhorses kept getting picked for him.

I like Max and hope he keeps at it. At the same time, I hope I don't have to listen to how Max should get 90 pcs every time he skates.
 
jlai said:
Les Mis and Bring him home has been done by many other skaters. People still remember Paul Wylie's Bring Him Home. You have to be outstanding in your presentation to stand out in that program. I wish Max kept last year's short. I'm not sure why warhorses kept getting picked for him.

I like Max and hope he keeps at it. At the same time, I hope I don't have to listen to how Max should get 90 pcs every time he skates.
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I think it is the first time ever I said Max might deserve better component (and I said "a few points... like maybe upper 7s as opposite of mid-7s, at home?):) I think you are reacting to @misskarne's vehemency, but she has her favorites, roll with it.
 
He did put in a lot of effort.
dinakt said:
I cannot believe I am saying it, but Max could use a few more points on PCS. I agree that he is improved- maybe the first time ever I feel that the music and his movements naturally flow together. He put in a lot of effort and I'd like to see it rewarded.
I also hope he keeps at it. Sometimes Max would present a good program early in the year, and by the main starts what would be left seemed like a skeleton. I hope he keeps what he has, and that his components grow a bit.
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For Max I would go 1-2 points more but not 4. ETA this has nothing to do with PCS but I found the music really grating - just dislike the singing a lot.

To be honest, it looks to me like the judges had one PCS scale for Nathan and one for everyone else. I liked Nathan's program and thought he deserved good PCS but 44? No. For me, Tim was the one who really got hosed on PCS - it's lower than Max's, and that's just plain wrong.
 
Tavi said:
He did put in a lot of effort.


For Max I would go 1-2 points more but not 4. ETA this has nothing to do with PCS but I found the music really grating - just dislike the singing a lot.

To be honest, it looks to me like the judges had one PCS scale for Nathan and one for everyone else. I liked Nathan's program and thought he deserved good PCS but 44? No. For me, Tim was the one who really got hosed on PCS - it's lower than Max's, and that's just plain wrong.
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I love Nathan's SP, but basically agree.
And I love "Hamilton" the musical, including "The Room Where it Happens"... and Jason's choreo is complex... and he sells it... I cannot put my finger on why it is not quite right. I like it, but keep thinking they should choose a different mix of tracks.
 
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Nathan got a high PCS because the program has a ton of transitions. It's a very busy and packed short program. I don't think the judges are rewarding music interpretation per se but rather the (nonjumping) technical difficulty.
 
dinakt said:
I love Nathan's SP, but basically agree.
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I believe fans focus too much on the frontrunner's pcs and scoring and the non-frontrunners are completely ignored. I believe Dolensky and Firus should be closer to Nathan, more so than whether Max should be closer to Nathan. Because the biggest diff between Dolensky and Firus and Nathan are big jumps and consistency. The edging, program interpretation, etc etc has always been good.

Jun Y said:
Nathan got a high PCS because the program has a ton of transitions. It's a very busy and packed short program. I don't think the judges are rewarding music interpretation per se but rather the (nonjumping) technical difficulty.
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You mean, transitions matter this time? LOL. Now I have to go back to rewatch everyone.
 
Transitions (or at least the number of transitions) tends to be the main argument used to justify high PCS in mens skating these days because it's something easily observable and one can literally count. I feel like I'm back in 2005-2006.
 
Love Nathan but not this SP. Actually I just really dislike this music and the program just seems chaotic.
 
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