Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370

Twizzler

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1,350
India has temporarily halted the search in the Indian Ocean, as per latest on CNN. From the possible route shown on the screen, there is no way the plane flew over either India or Pakistan.

The map that CNN keeps showing- an arc to the North toward Kazakhstan and the arc to the South toward the Indian Ocean is not a projected flight path. It is an area where they think they plane could be based in the last "ping" from radar. Those lines are basically part of a "circle" on the Earth that can be determined from the ping. After eliminating what is impossible (based on speed, distance, fuel, etc.) those red lines are what was left. The plane could have made the turn west, flown back over Malaysia, flown over water and then headed North over India before crashing somewhere along that path.

I'm trying to find the video if the explanation they gave- it was REALLY informative- but haven't found one yet. I learned a lot watching it for sure because I couldn't understand how they were unable to determine direction of flight since they had that ping.

Here's one video:
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/03/16/nr-myers-malaysia-plane-search.cnn.html
 
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IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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CNN now says US officials think the plane crashed. There was no signal from the plane that it did so, however. And if you consider the level of sophistication involved in this sabotage/hijacking and the fact that it flew somewhere for 7 hours, why would they go through all that only to crash? They had to have a destination.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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My theory is that the pilot flying under duress or hijacking knew that there was no hope for those on board so diverted the plane over the ocean to crash there instead of coming down on land and potentially harming others.
 

Tinami Amori

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Flying over the Himalayas would make more sense per this guy on CNN right now.

One does NOT want to fly over Himalayas if one can help it, even in a more advanced modern aircraft. One does not want to land at, or even fly over Bhutan or Kathmandu airports, if one can help it! (well, unless one is on acid and there is large $$$$$$$ bet at stake). Too many reasons why it is not a desired route/destination.... If you want to see there are approach plates, min nav equipment, list of general weather conditions, and turbulence factors... but it's boring....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rt-dangerous-pilots-qualified-land-there.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-hazards-of-the-worlds-airports-1555293.html
 

BigB08822

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I have wondered why officials are assuming it crashed. I guess it makes the most sense being that the plane hasn't been spotted and no one has been heard from for well over a week now. However, it doesn't make sense that the pilots (or whoever did this) would go through so much trouble to crash it into the ocean to never be heard from again. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything. We may NEVER know what really happened and if you went through all of this there was surely some kind of point to all of it, no? Then again, I am trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. I just feel like they must have intended to put the plane down SOMEWHERE and not just into the middle of the ocean. Maybe they didn't make it but an experienced pilot would know how far they could make it on the fuel they had so I assume they had a plan and it was possible to execute. I can't help but think that plane was landed somewhere or at the very least there was a plan for that (and that others were involved on that end of it but are being very quiet if the plane never showed up).
 

IceAlisa

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One does NOT want to fly over Himalayas if one can help it, even in a more advanced modern aircraft. One does not want to land at, or even fly over Bhutan or Kathmandu airports, if one can help it! (well, unless one is on acid and there is large $$$$$$$ bet at stake). Too many reasons why it is not a desired route/destination.... If you want to see there are approach plates, min nav equipment, list of general weather conditions, and turbulence factors... but it's boring....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rt-dangerous-pilots-qualified-land-there.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-hazards-of-the-worlds-airports-1555293.html

That was a cool landing.

Here's one that always gave me the major creeps to even watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y14LkCJd7-4
 

mrinalini

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I was watching the press conference with the Malaysian officials and was impressed with their command of English--unhesitating, articulate and fluent. They sounded as if they used English every day. I am not at all familiar with the life in Malaysia, but do a lot of people speak English well?

Oh, they do. For some, English is their first language, and this applies especially to those who attend schools in which the primary languages of instruction are Bahasa Malaysia (the Malay language) and English. For those who attend Chinese or Tamil schools, their command of English isn't usually as proficient. I'd say Malaysia is rather like their next door neighbor Singapore - both are former British colonies and their general level of English is passable to excellent (except perhaps in the very rural areas).
 

BittyBug

Disgusted
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26,612
Has it been confirmed that the plane was only fueled for 8 hours of flight? I know that would be the usual load for the planned route, but considering that the maximum range of that equipment is over twice that, if this was a planned diversion by the pilots, could they have had accomplices on the ground that could have loaded extra fuel?
 

BigB08822

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21,604
Has it been confirmed that the plane was only fueled for 8 hours of flight? I know that would be the usual load for the planned route, but considering that the maximum range of that equipment is over twice that, if this was a planned diversion by the pilots, could they have had accomplices on the ground that could have loaded extra fuel?

I have also wondered this but they keep saying it only had enough fuel for 7 hours. Maybe they have ways to check that even after the fact? I was thinking that one accomplice on the ground could put way more fuel on the flight but there may be other ways to track how much is put onto each plane that a person couldn't override. No clue.
 

Vash01

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I was watching the press conference with the Malaysian officials and was impressed with their command of English--unhesitating, articulate and fluent. They sounded as if they used English every day. I am not at all familiar with the life in Malaysia, but do a lot of people speak English well?

I can't say specifically about Malaysia since I have never been there, but many countries in the world know English very well. It's a misconception that only people in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can speak English. For some outside these countries it is their first language, or one they know as well as (sometimes better than) their mother tongue.
 

Vash01

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I have wondered why officials are assuming it crashed. I guess it makes the most sense being that the plane hasn't been spotted and no one has been heard from for well over a week now. However, it doesn't make sense that the pilots (or whoever did this) would go through so much trouble to crash it into the ocean to never be heard from again. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything. We may NEVER know what really happened and if you went through all of this there was surely some kind of point to all of it, no? Then again, I am trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. I just feel like they must have intended to put the plane down SOMEWHERE and not just into the middle of the ocean. Maybe they didn't make it but an experienced pilot would know how far they could make it on the fuel they had so I assume they had a plan and it was possible to execute. I can't help but think that plane was landed somewhere or at the very least there was a plan for that (and that others were involved on that end of it but are being very quiet if the plane never showed up).

I don't think they are ruling out the possibility that the plane may have landed at an unknown site. In that case I am wondering what they are doing about those 200+ passengers? Could they have taken away their cell phones? Given them some kind of sleep pills? It's not easy to keep that many people quiet for 10+ days. The whole thing is so weird, I am even open to the possibility of alien involvement. I am not trying to be funny. I just don't want to rule out anything at all, and the possibility that the plane may have crashed in the Indian Ocean is still very much there. It's not easy to search over such a huge area. I feel for the families. I hope they get answers. It's hard enough to lose loved ones, but not knowing what happened to them must be even worse.
 

BelleBway

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I can't say specifically about Malaysia since I have never been there, but many countries in the world know English very well. It's a misconception that only people in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can speak English. For some outside these countries it is their first language, or one they know as well as (sometimes better than) their mother tongue.

I was in Malaysia this past fall and English was spoken everywhere; I just checked my photos and it looks like billboards and major signs were all mainly English. I also had no problem communicating- and at least one random person came up to me in a train station and spoke to me in English. Granted, I was only there a brief time and in some of the more touristy areas... but my recollection is that English was quite prevalent.

And yeah, I flew Malaysia Air- Beijing to KL and then KL to Hanoi. So this whole thing is especially freaky to me.
 

Ziggy

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By far the most probable scenario at this point is that the plane has crashed into the ocean and that everybody is dead. If the plane was hijacked, the pilot could have diverted it into the ocean so that it crashed there and nobody on the ground was hurt, as somebody suggested already.

If whoever hijacked it was after the plane and did manage to land safely (which is not very probable but theoretically possible), then they would have surely killed all the passengers as well. Had they been released, they would have contacted their loved ones straight away.
 
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IceAlisa

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I can't say specifically about Malaysia since I have never been there, but many countries in the world know English very well. It's a misconception that only people in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can speak English. For some outside these countries it is their first language, or one they know as well as (sometimes better than) their mother tongue.

I know that plenty of people speak English besides the ones you mentioned. The Dutch never fail to impress with their near flawless English, most Swedes, Germans and Austrians too. However, I didn't know whether that was the case with the Malaysians and if such mastery of English was common. THAT was my question.
 

Vash01

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By far the most probable scenario at this point is that the plane has crashed into the ocean and that everybody is dead. If the plane was hijacked, the pilot could have diverted it into the ocean so that it crashed there and nobody on the ground was hurt, as somebody suggested already.

If whoever hijacked it was after the plane and did manage to land safely (which is not very probable but theoretically possible), then they would have surely killed all the passengers as well. Had they been released, they would have contacted their loved ones straight away.

Sadly we may never know the motive of the pilots -or whoever forced it- if that's what happened. As you said, a crash in the Indian Ocean is the most likely scenario.
 

Tinami Amori

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I was watching the press conference with the Malaysian officials and was impressed with their command of English--unhesitating, articulate and fluent. They sounded as if they used English every day. I am not at all familiar with the life in Malaysia, but do a lot of people speak English well?

Re: English fluency in aviation industry - mandatory since 2008 - level 4 english minimum.
http://www.aviation-esl.com/ICAO_English.htm

I don't think they are ruling out the possibility that the plane may have landed at an unknown site. In that case I am wondering what they are doing about those 200+ passengers? Could they have taken away their cell phones? Given them some kind of sleep pills? It's not easy to keep that many people quiet for 10+ days.
10 days. No contact from hostages. Look up: Operation Entebbe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe


I have also wondered this but they keep saying it only had enough fuel for 7 hours. Maybe they have ways to check that even after the fact? I was thinking that one accomplice on the ground could put way more fuel on the flight but there may be other ways to track how much is put onto each plane that a person couldn't override. No clue.

Airport operations/svs are independent commercial entities from the airlines (in general). The fueling services operate like gas stations, you fuel X liters - you pay for X liters. The tab is on, you get a print-out and a bill (sent to the corp. offices, if you have credit with airport X, or your ground handler credits it for you). ME in KUL, being a domestic airline has a tab with the airport I am sure, but every fueling for every flight is tracked and billed. It is very easy to look up the records how much fuel was input and billed into that a/c on that day for that flight.

But..... holly chihuahua, for what it is worth...... there was an american's FAA warning in 2011 about problems with fuel tanks on B777's which have to do with gaps in electric flow... which can not be detected in regular circumstances, but escalate in cases of certain deviations from "norms" from certain planned technical procedures and elements of a flight as it is normally planned and executed. In simple terms, higher propensity to catch on fire and/or blow up.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=2e1ed73b-89fa-40fd-8998-dc41004bb7d4
 
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mrinalini

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And yeah, I flew Malaysia Air- Beijing to KL and then KL to Hanoi. So this whole thing is especially freaky to me.

Same here. I flew KL to Beijing on Malaysia Airlines many, many years ago (had a great time, as I remember) so this is especially unsettling.

However, I didn't know whether that was the case with the Malaysians and if such mastery of English was common. THAT was my question.

As someone who's had first hand experience, it is very common especially in the main cities and more upscale areas. I know of Malaysians (predominantly from the Indian and Chinese minorities) who grew up speaking only English and nothing else.
 

*Jen*

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By far the most probable scenario at this point is that the plane has crashed into the ocean and that everybody is dead. If the plane was hijacked, the pilot could have diverted it into the ocean so that it crashed there and nobody on the ground was hurt, as somebody suggested already.

I agree.

The government in Malaysia has made much of the fact that the pilot didn't support them. The latest speculation I've heard is that the government may be insinuating that the pilot was involved, but it's quite possible that he was the hero in it all and crashed into the sea rather than into a target. There is nothing in his personal life, apart from his clear opposition to the government, that screams terrorist.

At this stage, I'm really coming around to hijacking gone wrong, unclaimed because it didn't help whatever cause. I've been pretty reluctant to believe it but I think it's the only thing that makes sense.

I know that plenty of people speak English besides the ones you mentioned. The Dutch never fail to impress with their near flawless English, most Swedes, Germans and Austrians too. However, I didn't know whether that was the case with the Malaysians and if such mastery of English was common. THAT was my question.

Asia is changing a lot - there is a bigger east/west divide than ever, I think. Hong Kong and Taiwan are the prime examples, but Japan and Malaysia have increasing influence of the English language. Nearly everyone in the Philippines can speak English, and quite well. I think Indonesia is heading that way too.

Chinese is still an increasingly important language, especially for business, but culturally English is very attractive. Being educated in English is thought to open up many opportunities :)
 

nypanda

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The thing about a hijacking gone wrong (which admittedly seems the most likely scenario) is, why then the superhuman effort to avoid military radar? From what I've read, whoever was piloting the plane after it disappeared knew it was navigating on the edges/"under" the radar. If a hijacker can't figure out the plane is going in the opposite direction of instructed, then said hijacker is certainly not going to know if the plane is dodging military survellience zones. So the only thing that makes sense to me is that there are things that are not being revealed. The government may know exactly where that plane is.
 

Skittl1321

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My thought on hijacking gone wrong is a hijacker was piloting the plane, avoiding detection, and crashed accidentally. (Hell, the hijacker may have been the authorized pilot.)

I don't buy the "pilots diverted over the ocean" thing.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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The thing about a hijacking gone wrong (which admittedly seems the most likely scenario) is, why then the superhuman effort to avoid military radar? From what I've read, whoever was piloting the plane after it disappeared knew it was navigating on the edges/"under" the radar. If a hijacker can't figure out the plane is going in the opposite direction of instructed, then said hijacker is certainly not going to know if the plane is dodging military survellience zones. So the only thing that makes sense to me is that there are things that are not being revealed. The government may know exactly where that plane is.

It makes sense to fly undetected under a couple of different scenarios.
1. The pilots were trying to keep everyone on board alive at that point while they were trying to formulate a plan of escape.
2. The intended destination of the hijackers wasn't Beijing but somewhere else and the pilots were told to fly under radar undetected and they were cooperating at that point.

If they were detected off course at all by military radar, they would have been shot down as they were clearly off the intended course of the flight.
 

numbers123

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Airport operations/svs are independent commercial entities from the airlines (in general). The fueling services operate like gas stations, you fuel X liters - you pay for X liters. The tab is on, you get a print-out and a bill (sent to the corp. offices, if you have credit with airport X, or your ground handler credits it for you). ME in KUL, being a domestic airline has a tab with the airport I am sure, but every fueling for every flight is tracked and billed. It is very easy to look up the records how much fuel was input and billed into that a/c on that day for that flight.

Yes, my son used to do refueling planes. Every refuel/fueling was documented not only for billing (main ourpose) but to record amounts the fuel station had on hand.
 

judiz

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5,314
How sure are they that the last words from the plane were from one of the crew members and not a hijacker?
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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Asia is changing a lot - there is a bigger east/west divide than ever, I think. Hong Kong and Taiwan are the prime examples, but Japan and Malaysia have increasing influence of the English language. Nearly everyone in the Philippines can speak English, and quite well. I think Indonesia is heading that way too.

Chinese is still an increasingly important language, especially for business, but culturally English is very attractive. Being educated in English is thought to open up many opportunities :)

That's why Mini Ice is studying Mandarin. :)

As someone who's had first hand experience, it is very common especially in the main cities and more upscale areas. I know of Malaysians (predominantly from the Indian and Chinese minorities) who grew up speaking only English and nothing else.
Thanks!

Re: English fluency in aviation industry - mandatory since 2008 - level 4 english minimum.
http://www.aviation-esl.com/ICAO_English.htm
Thanks!

The story is fading from the headlines. :(
 
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Jem X

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It makes sense to fly undetected under a couple of different scenarios.
1. The pilots were trying to keep everyone on board alive at that point while they were trying to formulate a plan of escape.
2. The intended destination of the hijackers wasn't Beijing but somewhere else and the pilots were told to fly under radar undetected and they were cooperating at that point.

If they were detected off course at all by military radar, they would have been shot down as they were clearly off the intended course of the flight.

This twitter post contains a tumblr link which describes how it might be possible to avoid radar detection by "shadowing" another similar plane. First the twitter: https://twitter.com/socalmike_SD/status/445741174792261634

and now the tumblr : http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/p...ysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
 

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