Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370

[Vagabond]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...authorities-to-warning-of-beijing-attack.html

The caller identified himself as belonging to a French anti-terrorism organization and said he called the airline after failing to reach Beijing airport authorities, China Airlines spokesman Jeffrey Kuo said by phone yesterday.

*snip*

A man who answered the phone at Beijing Capital International Airport’s press center, who declined to give his name, said yesterday that he wasn’t aware of the matter.

 

[IceAlisa]

The Chinese are apparently complaining about the Malaysian government squandering investigative opportunities. Pot... Kettle...

The CNN anchor guy has been playing with a model of the 777 for no good reason other than to play with it. I have a hard time buying the pilot suicide theory--why the elaborate flying for many hours when it can be done directly after takeoff?

 

[jlai]

At this point I no longer know what's news and what's speculation

 

[Tinami Amori]

And hey, maybe it is true. Maybe that type of plane would make the perfect weapon. That doesn't mean this is what's happened to it, and in fact it would be strange if it was. A lot of terror groups are very well funded and well connected - they wouldn't need to steal a plane full of passengers, thus putting every security force in the world on alert, in order to get their hands on a plane.

B777-200/300 in a working condition with resource left to fly before next c-check/heavy maintenance and working engines starts at 40 million dollars. You can get one for under 40Mils but it will require heavy maintenance to make it air worthy. If it is not airworthy then one would not be able to conduct even the initial stages of what is to be a future "illegal flight/operation".

Terrorist groups maybe heavy funded and be able to afford this sum, but it is not penny-purchase, and the expense must justify a rather major purpose.

But even if funds were available, it is hard to buy a Boeing and hide the transaction, or even be allowed to complete such transaction.

Major aircraft sales/purchases, leases are hard to hide, Boeing for example monitors such transactions; there is a whole scope of aviation equipment produced in USA that can not be sold to/in certain countries. Such transactions are heavily monitored inside and outside the USA. Any person or company which sells/buys (for example) Boeing A/C and equipment by Boeing or Boeing approved OEMs/parts/avionics has to fill out extensive paperwork and go through approvals. It is not a simple procedure. The entities/airlines/people have to be VERY legitimate and for the lack of better words, very clean and with long professional history in the field of aviation, and with proper registrations for airlines.

Any intermediary who would be willing to act as a legitimate entity to lease/buy such A/C, to later turn over to "questionable entity" is basically "dead meat" once the A/C is used for its intended illegal purpose. It would be hard to believe that ANY registered airlines (with IATA, local aviation authorities like FAA), or leasing/sales brokers, or individuals working for airlines or brokers, who passed the filters of being allowed to sell/buy Boeing equipment would be willing to loose everything over 1 sale or lease to "questionable buyers/lessees".

The to take possession of the A/C the lessee must "move it" to the desired destination, called either a "ferry flight" or "positioning flight". Just that transaction alone requires a bunch of registrations procedures in which the country of registration must be stated and bunch of airworthiness certificates.

Even in banana countries where there is less control, still certain registration procedures must be followed, because Boeing monitors the activities and movements of their equipment (based on the US demand that the equipment can not be sold in certain countries). That is not because Boeing strongly holds to political ideologies, although it might, but because it could be fined by US government.... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/business/10boeing.html?_r=0

So, you can't really take a functioning Boeing equipment, wheel/deal the sale, put it in your purse and walk off with it.. It is much easier to pinch one even with all the troubles and risks.

 

[Dr.Siouxs]

So creepy. Those poor families.........

 

[judiz]

No specific terror groups mentioned but here is a link to the story.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...authorities-to-warning-of-beijing-attack.html

But this sounds like an attack would happen at the airport, not on a plane heading to the airport.

 

[dardar1126]

Twitter:

AMERICAblog News ‏@americablog 20m
NYT: Malaysian govt had military radar data from Day 1, intentionally searched wrong area http://ift.tt/1eFFgT5

 

[IceAlisa]

Just no words.

Link on the same page: http://americablog.com/2014/03/unanswered-questions-malaysia-air-flight-370.html

 

[ks777]

Does anyone know if there is live satellite images I can see somewhere for free?

 

[judiz]

Just no words.

Link on the same page: http://americablog.com/2014/03/unanswered-questions-malaysia-air-flight-370.html

How reliable is this source?

 

[IceAlisa]

No idea but these questions are excellent.

 

[orbitz]

If the the NYT article linked by dardar1126 is reliable then how is the Malaysian government going to explain why they knowingly had the world do a massive search for the missing plane in the wrong location? How are they going to be able to defend their actions to the families of the missing passengers? Ugh, this whole thing is getting more disturbing as the truth leaks out bits by bits. So sad.

 

[dardar1126]

If the the NYT article linked by dardar1126 is reliable then how is the Malaysian government going to explain why they knowingly had the world do a massive search for the missing plane in the wrong location? How are they going to be able to defend their actions to the families of the missing passengers? Ugh, this whole thing is getting more disturbing as the truth leaks out bits by bits. So sad.

Here's the link to the NYT story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/w...ting-the-task-of-finding-flight-370.html?_r=1

ASIA PACIFIC

Series of Errors by Malaysia Mounts, Complicating the Task of Finding Flight 370
By KEITH BRADSHER and MICHAEL FORSYTHEMARCH 15, 2014

 

[Vagabond]

Thanks. CNN has a very good explanation of the large search area and why it's outlined this way. A sensible comment is that had it landed anywhere in the Northern area of the search area which includes most of Asia, it would have registered on radar.

And what makes you think the response would have been any different outside of Malaysia from inside it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/w...ting-the-task-of-finding-flight-370.html?_r=0

Yet inside a Malaysian Air Force control room on the country’s west coast, where American-made F-18s and F-5 fighters stood at a high level of readiness for emergencies exactly like the one unfolding in the early morning of March 8, a four-person air defense radar crew did nothing about the unauthorized flight. “The watch team never noticed the blip,” said a person with detailed knowledge of the investigation into Flight 370. “It was as though the airspace was his.”

 

[Ziggy]

This is all a big promotional exercise for the re-launch of "Lost."

 

[IceAlisa]

And what makes you think the response would have been any different outside of Malaysia from inside it?

Because not all countries monitor their airspace (and report their findings to their superiors) in the exact same poor manner as Malaysia?

This is all a big promotional exercise for the re-launch of "Lost."

Are you being funny?

 

[*Jen*]

Or radars. You'd think people would be on the lookout in that part of the world.

It could have flown above the radar, rather than below, which would explain both why no one saw it and it wasn't on radar. Presumably it would then have had descend to land/crash so should have come onto a radar somewhere then, unless it went somewhere with spotty or no radar.


As for the internet usage on the plane...I've flown on planes with that kind of tech. We're not talking wifi, we're talking swiping your credit card through remote for your tv which doubles as a phone. It's quite old technology, and I'd assume that if the transponder was turned off, the same person/people would have turned off any internet too.

 

[Vagabond]

Because not all countries monitor their airspace (and report or not report their findings) in the exact same poor manner as Malaysia?

True. But do they do it any better?

Burma? Bangladesh? India? Sri Lanka? Maldives? Hmmm.....

 

[IceAlisa]

True. But do they do it any better?

Burma? Bangladesh? India? Sri Lanka? Maldives? Hmmm.....

India? Yes. Anywhere the US has assets? China?

 

[ssminnow]

At this point I'm even wondering if this may be an intentional detractor from Ukraine.

 

[IceAlisa]

India speaks up about the possibility of the plane flying undetected in its airspace: http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-jet-couldn-t-flown-over-airspace-says-015126330.html

 

[skatefan]

What do you think of the possibility the plane and its passengers are being held to mega-bucks ransom? The countries involved wouldn't disclose this until a resolution had been reached. Although if it is the pilots who have done this, everyone knows who they are so would be hunted down ... if it was someone else forcing the pilots to divert though, forcing the route change. I truly hope that plane was not deliberately crashed into the ocean with all those people on board

 

[skategal]

But this sounds like an attack would happen at the airport, not on a plane heading to the airport.

I don't think it would be that difficult to use the 777 as a WMD to crash into the airport right before landing.

There would be no time for an airforce plane to shoot it down either.

ETA. Even if they did shoot it down, they would be shooting it down right over the airport which could cause alot of damage as well.

 

[Vagabond]

India? Yes. Anywhere the US has assets?

"Assets" meaning a military installation? I don't think it has any bases in those countries I mentioned.

As for India, leaving aside for the moment the possibility that the Indians are no more inclined to do anything about an odd blip on the radar, consider this:

Kolkata airport has an Automatic Dependence Surveillance Radar and Controller-Pilot Datalink Communication that enables it to not only trail planes when it is in the radar zone of 60 nautical miles or nearly 120 km and beyond through very high frequency radio but also through the data link when the plane goes out of voice communication range. There are large areas in the Kolkata Flight Information Region, particularly over Bay of Bengal, that have no radar coverage at present.

A radar has been installed in Andaman and Nicobar Islands, but is yet to be commissioned.

Also, India's Siliguri Corridor is quite narrow. Who knows whether a flight over it would be detected?

Apparently, there are at least 634 runways in 26 countries where the plane could have landed. The fact that some of them, like Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, and Diego Garcia, are highly unlikely doesn't mean there aren't other, better possibilities.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-indian-ocean#block-532466aae4b05ba05a3f8d84

 

[Deleted member 40371]

It is highly unlikely that anyone would use that Siliguri corridor and go undetected, especially since India fears that terrorists will use this area to attack the country. India is also vigilant about what flights coming from Bangladesh or flying in Bangladesh since any deviation in flight can attack Kolkata, a city of 14 million people. Kolkata is very close to Bangladesh border. If they did fly over Siliguri, heads will roll in Delhi and this will be another issue during the general elections . Also Siliguri has an international airport, they would also detect any radars will pick up flights flying over the area. I am not sure of Andaman islands, but this information shows that India does have radar, but is focused towards Coco islands in Myanmar (China does its military activity there ), but India does feel this area is a safer (may be not from now on), and unlikely to get attacked.

 

[Ziggy]

Are you being funny?

This has been turned into a massive joke very quickly through countless conspiracy theories and media coming up with any old bullshit they can think of in order to titillate its viewers.

So you might as well have a pained laugh about it.

 

[dardar1126]

Twitter:

The Globe and Mail ‏@globeandmail 8s
Updated: Timing of final words from cockpit of missing Malaysian jet reveal an intent to deceive http://tgam.ca/EA0U

EDIT:

Mother Jones ‏@MotherJones 22m
Every Plane That Has Vanished Since 1948 http://bit.ly/1gCIDdK via @Digg

EDIT2:

Jim Roberts ‏@nycjim 2h
Nice job by @WNYC plotting all 634 runways there were apparently in range for #MH370. http://wny.cc/OtRV53

 

[IceAlisa]

"Assets" meaning a military installation? I don't think it has any bases in those countries I mentioned.

As for India, leaving aside for the moment the possibility that the Indians are no more inclined to do anything about an odd blip on the radar, consider this:

If there are patches of uncovered airspace, sooner or later, the plane WOULD have flown into a monitored area. As to assets, these can include movable military ones, not necessarily military bases. For instance the USS Kidd is an asset.

Chances are it could have been undetected some of the way but it would be very difficult to avoid detection completely. Why do you think they are concentrating on the Southern Indian ocean?

pparently, there are at least 634 runways in 26 countries where the plane could have landed. The fact that some of them, like Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, and Diego Garcia, are highly unlikely doesn't mean there aren't other, better possibilities.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-indian-ocean#block-532466aae4b05ba05a3f8d84

Except experts are saying that the plane would have emitted a detectable signal had it landed.

As for India, leaving aside for the moment the possibility that the Indians are no more inclined to do anything about an odd blip on the radar, consider this:

I don't know where you get your information on the Indian radar monitoring practices but you'd think they'd be on the lookout, considering what has happened.

Plus radar data is recorded so if they didn't pay attention to it live, they can revisit it. Anyway, India and Pakistan say they have no data indicating the plane went over their territories.


In any case, the route that the pilot would have taken to avoid radar detection, does not have to go over India or Pakistan. Flying over the Himalayas would make more sense per this guy on CNN right now.

 

[Vash01]

India has temporarily halted the search in the Indian Ocean, as per latest on CNN. From the possible route shown on the screen, there is no way the plane flew over either India or Pakistan.

 

[IceAlisa]

I was watching the press conference with the Malaysian officials and was impressed with their command of English--unhesitating, articulate and fluent. They sounded as if they used English every day. I am not at all familiar with the life in Malaysia, but do a lot of people speak English well?