Which beloved or highly regarded skaters do you personally NOT love or highly regard??

starrynight

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2,409
But what did people specifically called Karen do? The whole name for it just seems memey and juvenile. I think it’s the kind of name that gets invented by people who spend too much time on the internet.

I understand the concept, it just needs another name. But I don’t care much for social network culture so I’m not surprised I find some of the terms they use silly.

Or is ‘A Karen’ some deadly serious name that me not being on social networks means I don’t understand? I just thought it was a silly meme of someone with a silly haircut. But people have really reacted so strongly to the name?
 
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starrynight

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2,409
AMEN. And please show me all the white, straight people on FSU who have written enraged posts every time a slur was leveled at people of color, Jews, LGBTQ+ people (especially transpeople), Latinx people, or any other demographic that is NOT represented by the majority of FSU posters.
Well all the people I talk to on here are lovely and I certainly would be shocked if people were doing that? Do people say that stuff in the non skating section of this board?:eek:
 

starrynight

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2,409
Lol I delete my social networks for a couple of months and I’m so out of touch on internet slang I accidentally start a giant fuss and get accused of so many terrible things ... oops.
 
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Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
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50,117
Lol I delete my social networks for a couple of months and I’m so out of touch on internet slang I accidentally start a giant fuss... oops.
Perhaps the fuss can be taken somewhere else so people can enjoy posting about their unbeloved skaters and rehashing competitions from years past?

Maybe you can all move over to this thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/racial-profiling-related-matters-non-lethal-version.103927/ There is quite a bit of Karen discussion there. Or you can start another thread in PI.

But how about we drop this here?
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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35,393
Believe it or not, but I wish his ponytail back! I've never been a fan of it but I think it fit him better than his current haircut.
I miss the pony tail. With that hair cut, he reminds me a lot of my son. (Though my son never had a pony tail so I'm not sure why.)

@MacMadame and @genevieve can this thread be closed? It's a disaster waiting to happen.
Hey, FYI... I have no power here. Only in the C19 forum and even there it is limited. This is why I always call on Prancer. Or report things in Board Business. For next time...
 

Japanfan

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23,268
But what was iconic about it though. Her musicality was absent. Medvedeva's 2016 Boston program is far more memorable to me... I think it's Med who really started the Russian revolution
I wouldn't call the program iconic, but do find it memorable. What made it so for me was the fact that Lip based her performance on a character in the film, a girl in a red dress - seemed appropriate, given that Lip was pretty much a child herself. For me, she was able to capture the pertinent emotions in her performance.

That said, I haven't watched it for many years. I might have a different opinion if I watched it again today.
 

Tony Wheeler

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7,410
I found SL to be carried by the beautiful music more than any emotion from Lipnitskaia, and I think the 'reserved quality' thing is often put in place of a skater that otherwise isn't capable of expressing much. I can say I felt that way for just about every single one of Arakawa's programs, for example, but Turandot was just the right music and I know her team felt the same based on how she used it in 3 different seasons. I also think that's why so many people love Tarasova/Morozov in their more classical-oriented pieces but rip them apart any time they do something modern or 'fun', because his emotion changes exactly 0% from program to program.

No fault in skaters finding music they can mask it with, though. I love watching T/M if they aren't putting out cringe material.
 

Lemonade20

Active Member
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222
The reason I don’t like the term is that I don’t like a common name plenty of really lovely people have being weaponised. How bad would it make one feel to have one’s name turned into a slur?
Agreed, some of the most amazing women I know happen to have that name
 

olympic

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I think Lipnitskaya mesmerized an Olympic audience for 3 reasons: (1) The powerful music; (2) her similarity to the little girl in the red sweater and (3) she was uber-bendy which is a wow factor for all sorts of casual fans.
 

VGThuy

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32,189
I think Lipnitskaya mesmerized an Olympic audience for 3 reasons: (1) The powerful music; (2) her similarity to the little girl in the red sweater and (3) she was uber-bendy which is a wow factor for all sorts of casual fans.
I think that’s the perfect summation. You can apply that to her SP too except take out the red sweater part. I think people were enamored with her SP in an Olga Korbut kind of way.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,944
I would add that, although her face was not expressive, she used her body expressively in that program -- a droop of the shoulders, a look down at the ice or over the shoulder, her posture and movements generally. That counts for something. It's not the same as using both facial and bodily expression -- I'm not saying she was Satoko Miyahara -- but it's something, and it contributed to the powerful impression the program made. And then, too, Satoko wasn't playing the little girl in the red coat, a role that actually called for simplicity. As others have said above, Julia had music and a concept that suited her and she made it work.
 

olympic

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9,523
^I would also add that in the team event, which was her best ever performance period, she skated a challenging program cleanly. Of course, that will add to the effect of a program on its audience.

Following up on @Wyliefan post, Schindler's List is somber to say the least. There is not much physical emoting to be done. Overuse of hands and facial expressions would've looked ridiculous and conveyed nothing of what the music meant
 

VGThuy

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32,189
That program was extremely smart packaging from her camp and Averbukh. One look in the beginning where she turns to the camera and the ending look. The music matched her natural default expression and they gave her a costume that was perfect for the music and invoked images of the film. It was also more age appropriate than say having a 16-year-old skating to Carmen. The audience was wowed by the completed triples and those spins (and flex moves during the footwork that I thought worked against the music but by that time the audience was enraptured). It was one of the best packaging jobs in skating in forever. I admit that even though I wasn't a fan of it.
 

Polaris

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977
^Yep. Lipniskaia's Schindler's List was probably the most brilliant skating packaging I've seen, in a purely cynical sense.
 

gkelly

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15,260
I would add that, although her face was not expressive, she used her body expressively in that program -- a droop of the shoulders, a look down at the ice or over the shoulder, her posture and movements generally. That counts for something.
From the point of view of fans watching on TV and assessing the emotional impact of a program, facial expression might be more important.

But from the point of view of evaluating choreography, ability to use the body expressively especially while skating rather than posing in place, and what can be readily perceived by officials and fans in the arena without video closeups, those kinds of physical expressions are probably more valuable than facial expression.
 

Marco

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Following up on @Wyliefan post, Schindler's List is somber to say the least. There is not much physical emoting to be done. Overuse of hands and facial expressions would've looked ridiculous and conveyed nothing of what the music meant
The overuse of hands is exactly what I don't like about that program for her. She was skating way too busy for SL.
 

shine

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4,833
Lipnitskaya’s SL is the most overrated program of all time. She literally skated and moved at the same monotonous pace through out with almost zero musicality. But that’s how she skated to most music anyway. And I agree she was moving way too much and way too relatively.
 

Plusdinfo

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271
Volosozhar and Trankov were enjoyable for me when with other partners, but their pairing? I didn't like one single program of theirs, and I kept waiting for there to be something that changed that... but it never happened.
 

olympic

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9,523
I think that’s the perfect summation. You can apply that to her SP too except take out the red sweater part. I think people were enamored with her SP in an Olga Korbut kind of way.
Interestingly like Lipnitskaya, Olga Korbut never won an individual all-around Olympic or World Championship
 

gotoschool

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925
So this thread has been staring me in the eyes tempting me to give into my hyper criticial side. As others have mentioned, this thread made me realize the correlation between my feeling of a skater being overscored and a sense that the same ones are overpraised for their performances, though there are a number of exceptions specifically Alina Zagitova and Anna Shcherbekova, based on a combination of liking though not loving their performances and liking what little I have seen of them as people, though their overscoring still gets to me a fair amount. I will add Evgenia Medvedeva here too even more so. Her overscoring does bother me a lot, but to be fair I liked her skating as a Junior and like her as a person. I just didn't like her skating as much after that, though I think she has gotten a little better since going to Orser.

In between strong mixed feelings:
Yuna Kim- over generous scoring again, not that many triples, lacks flexibility and lacks rink coverage, free blade assist into combo jumps, don't care that much for her attitude, not the most intricate blade work in step sequences. However, I think she has good (not great) artistry, though I can't relate seems rehearsed, good straight line speed, and jumps are good size with minimal pre-rotation especially single ones or first in the combo, but loses height on the second one not uniform throughout. Biggest plus: She has inspired Young You and Haien Lee who along with Rika Kihira are my favorite skaters currently competing.

My list
Alena Kosternai- I don't care much for her facial expressions or attitude and many of her movements to the music seem stiff and unconnected with kind of a generic, calculated grace conveyed to fit a range of music genres and I don't see impressive edge work in the step sequences. I don't like her eulur and her skates splay out without a tight leg wrap on most of her combos. Good smooth straight line skating and speed, some good spins though not her I spin, some good transitions and jumps though a number of calls missed and over generous PCS since the message was sent after the Cup of France SP. Admittedly good consistency landing the triple axel with impressive height and transitions but slower rotation speed and not scrutinized with rotation calls missed after Cup of France SP.

Sasha Trusova- don't get into her performances, so can't get into her expression, step sequences or skating also missed calls and generous scoring, on the plus side admire her guts to go after so many quads
I

Michelle Kwan - scoring especially at 1996 Worlds, never understood the great praise for artistry, don't care that much for her attitude, fairly small jumps, plus side impressive consistency
 
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essence_of_soy

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I am Gen X. I have gotten used to the idea of being out of touch.

We are a strange generation. We lack the optimism of Boomers but were not helicopter parented like Millennials. Probably cuz we were the latchkey home alone kids, and had to grow up on our own; Divorces and single parenting skyrocketed in the 70s when we were in school, so we are moody, cynical and appear to hate everyone
I must watch the series, Freaks and Geeks, again.
 

Lara111

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434
Chock/Bates - I do not get them. The only dance I enjoyed was Doctor Zhivago. He often skates with very unsure body posture like he is still a junior.
 

olympic

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9,523
I will say this about MK. I sort of understand people that think she may be overrated. I stopped being a big fan (but never lost respect) after the '02 Olympic season because she didn't seem to be trying anything new technically and did strip out transitions and such. I love the music from Tosca but her LP music in the '03-'04 season was the same piece on a loop. It didn't look like much of an attempt was made to put together the program minus the FW (Still was one judge away from winning the LP over Shiz at '04 Worlds).

But if you really look at her career, the quality of her jumps improved after she went to Raf for her final 2 seasons. I noticed her Flip was big and strong, almost like a money jump which is ironic when you consider it was her achilles heel at both Nagano and SLC, and it turned out after the fact that I learned she was nursing a chronic injury and she was being careful all those years. So, in the end, I think she deserves all the positive press she gets.
 

Bigbird

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1,325
Chock/Bates - I do not get them. The only dance I enjoyed was Doctor Zhivago. He often skates with very unsure body posture like he is still a junior.
I found they have improved drastically in the last two seasons. I never really bought into them with few exceptions but all in all, the talent pool in ice dance right now doesn't inspire me much.
 

VGThuy

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32,189
I totally get why Kwan isn't everyone's cup of tea. There are things other skaters did do better, and I'm one of those people who is super self-critical and that extends to my faves as well, despite being super defensive of my faves haha.

As to the younger fans who don't rate her too highly, I understand that as well. Her skating and movement is like the anthesis of what IJS-bred skating fans grew up watching. IMO, there's a lot of things one can critique about her, but IMO, she was truly one-in-a-million and gained and sustained a fame that transcended the small bubble of figure skating for a reason. I regularly go back to her best routines/performances just to remind myself what clarity of movement and a true marriage of artistry and technical ability looks like on top of skating with soul and a depth that I think is rare - something I feel more strongly about the more years and generations of skaters that pass by. She had a way of weaving things that looked natural and that she was sharing a bit of her soul with you when she performed. To me, she had depth, and I'm not just talking about her bomb-ass skating skills.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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15,279
To a certain degree, Kwan is best appreciated by fans who watched a lot of skating 1989 - 1996, lol. She and Lori had so much influence on what was acceptable going forward that it's hard to appreciate her fully without that context.
 

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