Virtue, Moir hope revamped programs will lift them to Olympic gold

[Aussie Willy]

Neither team is guaranteed the OGM. Please don't count your chickens until they hatch.

Hmmm unless one of them has a massive brain fart, I think either of them will be the OGM.

 

[Anyasnake]

VM are also young enough that Beijing 2022 isn't completely out of the question in terms of their ages. If they win the OGM, why wouldn't they continue for 4 more years?

Oh they definitely could they would be 32 and 34 - Aljona is 34 and Luca Lanotte is 32. But they've hinted many times that it was the last ride. But it's never a done deal

 

[maglia]

VM are also young enough that Beijing 2022 isn't completely out of the question in terms of their ages. If they win the OGM, why wouldn't they continue for 4 more years?

V/M will stop right after OG, they won't even compete in Milan. It's already decided.

 

[starrynight]

Hmmm unless one of them has a massive brain fart, I think either of them will be the OGM.

Has there ever been a big Olympic upset in ice dance (like a proper upset not just a flipping of the established #1 and #2)?

It's almost par for the course that there will be a shakeup in the ladies event each Olympics. However, there aren't any pesky jumps getting in the way of the judges doing their thing in ice dance. If the chosen few balls up they can just hide it with levels and GOE. I can't readily think of an instance where the apple cart has been seriously upset in ice dance. Although perhaps all the falling in 2006 did interfere with things but Navka/Kostomarov still won.

But looking back historically, it was like everyone just took one step up the podium each successive Olympics lol (Like Klimova/Ponomarenko going bronze, silver, gold)

Perhaps someone with a better memory than me could comment.

 

[allezfred]

Has there ever been a big Olympic upset in ice dance (like a proper upset not just a flipping of the established #1 and #2)?

I think Grishuk/Platov winning in 1994 is the closest we've seen to an upset in ice dance.

 

[Rafter]

I absolutely hate the Ed Sheeran SD as well, and to me it's not anywhere on the same level as V/M SD (which I know isn't exactly traditional Latin either) I just don't think Latin is something P/C do well. OTOH I will watch P/C stunning FD any time all the time

I just watched P/Cs SD from Euros back to back with V/Ms SD from nationals and there is no comparison. V/Ms program has way more going on choreographically and P/Cs expression and interpretation aren’t even close to V/Ms. I’d argue that Hubbell and Dononue and the Shibs have much stronger SDs than P/C. I think P/C made a mistake with the music choice and slowing it down to get the right timing for the rhumba - it actually makes them look a bit slow or cautious or something.

 

[starrynight]

I think Grishuk/Platov winning in 1994 is the closest we've seen to an upset in ice dance.

I suppose the 1994 Olympics were a bit of an anomaly with them being only 2 years after the previous Olympics and the pros returning. There wasn't as much of an opportunity for the momentum/body of work machine to be cranked up and the judges to be all singing from the same hymn book.

 

[MsZem]

I just watched P/Cs SD from Euros back to back with V/Ms SD from nationals and there is no comparison. V/Ms program has way more going on choreographically and P/Cs expression and interpretation aren’t even close to V/Ms. I’d argue that Hubbell and Dononue and the Shibs have much stronger SDs than P/C. I think P/C made a mistake with the music choice and slowing it down to get the right timing for the rhumba - it actually makes them look a bit slow or cautious or something.

Translation: "I like V/M better".

I mean, if I write that P/C are much better because V/M's expression is over the top and I'd much rather watch the Shibs... does that make it true?

 

[Anyasnake]

I can't readily think of an instance where the apple cart has been seriously upset in ice dance. Although perhaps all the falling in 2006 did interfere with things but Navka/Kostomarov still won.

I'm too young to know everything that happenned in the 80's or 90's but the Torino games OD were the closest to a disaster in an Ice Dance event. FP/M were 1st after the CD after all. Did anyone thought Belbin/Agosto would win the silver too ? (I think the medal was not a surprise though, maybe the color ?). I remember the Ukrainian having a very good OD though, but did Del/Shoes deserved that bronze, was it too close ... ? Those games were something
But N/K were the favourites, weren't they ? In the end, since 2002 or 1998, I think the faves always won ?

 

[allezfred]

I think P/C made a mistake with the music choice and slowing it down to get the right timing for the rhumba - it actually makes them look a bit slow or cautious or something.

The music choice doesn't seem to be hampering them too much. They've scored over 81 points the last four times they have skated it, including scoring more than Virtue/Moir at the Grand Prix Final. Seems that Virtue/Moir made more of a mistake choosing the cuts they did for their Moulin Rouge free dance since they altered it so much before Canadians.

 

[Rafter]

LOL! Please, how can you say something like that? I guess you know Guillaume designs all P/C costumes and he would NEVER design nor wear the type of costumes Scott usually wears! No way!

Yes you’re right. Moir’s costumes are WAY too covered up for Cizeron! Cizeron likes to show off his arms in a sleeveless costume at least one program per year it seems to me. The only time I remember Moir doing that was in an exhibition:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixEbXhpC7Q

 

[starrynight]

I'm too young to know everything that happenned in the 80's or 90's but the Torino games OD were the closest to a disaster in an Ice Dance event. FP/M were 1st after the CD after all. Did anyone thought Belbin/Agosto would win the silver too ? (I think the medal was not a surprise though, maybe the color ?). I remember the Ukrainian having a very good OD though, but did Del/Shoes deserved that bronze, was it too close ... ? Those games were something
But N/K were the favourites, weren't they ? In the end, since 2002 or 1998, I think the faves always won ?

lol yes I think that always best to keep that experience in the back of our minds before we start engraving medals before the opening ceremony has even been held.

I think with Belbin/Agosto it was the Original Dance that put them on the podium with the silver medal. They were 6th in the CD and 4th in the FD.

 

[Rafter]

Especialy as it didnt go over that well with the judges or even the fans that year. The consensus seems to be that they were robbed in the OD of being closer to D&W or perhaps even winning that phase, but Davis & White clearly won the FD and the gold, despite that V&M skated their FD excellently. The program just wasnt enough for most.

It’d be interesting to know what VM think now if their 2014 FD. Zoueva really dropped the ball with that one.

 

[Asli]

IMO V&M are superior skaters to P/C, but P/C have the superior program.

I am surprised at your statement. V/M are of course excellent skaters, but in what way are they superior skaters to P/C? IMO P/C have deeper edges, better flow, better knee-bend, they are able to use their upper body in ways V/M have never even tried because P/C have better balance. In your opinion, what are the aspects in which V/M are superior?

 

[Rafter]

With respect, I totally disagree. Look at their 2010 Olympic program as an example (and btw, they won with that program). They are more than capable of skating to any genre of music and they are the most versatile ice dance team ever. I much prefer VM to PC and I think VM will leave much more of a legacy than PC. I much prefer DW (even though they are retired), WP, GP, CL, SS, HD to PC as well. I just don't like their vision of ice dance or their style.

P/C won’t be leaving much of a legacy if they continue to be one-trick ponies, stylistically. They and their coaches will have a big responsibility over the next four years to show some versatility.

 

[Anyasnake]

It’d be interesting to know what VM think now if their 2014 FD. Zoueva really dropped the ball with that one.

I know the fans including me were a bit surprised with the choice - more importantly the choreography as a whole piece. But I think in the end they were happy with the way they skated it in Sochi.
I think the whole 2013-2014 season was difficult for them, and it was not about the programs at all (perhaps all exterior factors that made them want to end it their way this year).

 

[allezfred]

In your opinion, what are the aspects in which V/M are superior?

Spoiler

They are Canadian.

 

[Asli]

P/C won’t be leaving much of a legacy if they continue to be one-trick ponies, stylistically. They and their coaches will have a big responsibility over the next four years to show some versatility.

I believe this season their focus is on winning the Olympics with the style they have made their own. They are a bit too young to start worrying about their legacy.

As far as responsibility for the sport goes, as a fan I appreciate that the two current leading couples of the sport are both emphasizing the quality of skating and dancing, rather than gimmicky, showy programs and running on the ice like headless chickens.

 

[Anyasnake]

Spoiler

They are Canadian.

Sometimes I wish some teams were Canadians, Americans, Japanese or Russians.
They would have much more visibility, and more importantly would be much more respected.

 

[Rafter]

I am surprised at your statement. V/M are of course excellent skaters, but in what way are they superior skaters to P/C? IMO P/C have deeper edges, better flow, better knee-bend, they are able to use their upper body in ways V/M have never even tried because P/C have better balance. In your opinion, what are the aspects in which V/M are superior?

I agree that Cizeron has better knee bend. I think both teams are pretty equal on edge quality. As for flow, PCs programs are less complex which means it’s easier to get more flow. VM hardly do any progressives to gain speed.

As for your comment about the upper bodies ROTFL. No way. Papadakis could not come close to moving her upper body in the variety of dances and music genres the way Virtue does. I actually think in the SD there are times when PC are almost piking forward at the waist.

 

[Anyasnake]

If it's only to have the same stories, endless arguments, narrative, over and over again with no conclusion because everyone disagrees, what's the point really ? No one needs to appreciate everyone, but let those who do.

It's getting REALLY tiring. Are we here for figure skating or what ?

 

[muffinplus]

Yes you’re right. Moir’s costumes are WAY too covered up for Cizeron! Cizeron likes to show off his arms in a sleeveless costume at least one program per year it seems to me. The only time I remember Moir doing that was in an exhibition:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixEbXhpC7Q

LOL. Guillaume's costumes always seem to show off something..His arms or his chest.

 

[Bill Trenary]

LOL. Guillaume's costumes always seem to show off something..His arms or his chest.

If only he could loan them to Zach...

 

[Aussie Willy]

P/C won’t be leaving much of a legacy if they continue to be one-trick ponies, stylistically. They and their coaches will have a big responsibility over the next four years to show some versatility.

And that one trick pony are just the most sublime ice dancers I have ever seen. They have amazing fluidity and expression. What makes them so good is they don't need to get out there and sell the sh*t out of it like other teams do (even V&M). They draw you into what they do. And they make it is look easy.

Give me that one trick pony over the next few years and I will be a very happy ice dance fan.

 

[Ohyes]

I am surprised at your statement. V/M are of course excellent skaters, but in what way are they superior skaters to P/C? IMO P/C have deeper edges, better flow, better knee-bend, they are able to use their upper body in ways V/M have never even tried because P/C have better balance. In your opinion, what are the aspects in which V/M are superior?

https://m.popkey.co/49dc77/3GYVJ.gif

 

[starrynight]

P/C won’t be leaving much of a legacy if they continue to be one-trick ponies, stylistically. They and their coaches will have a big responsibility over the next four years to show some versatility.

I expect the responsibility will in fact fall on whoever their next challenger is to change the conversation. Whoever is winning sets the rules. It was the way when Zoueva was the queen of the castle that every team needed to show a new style each season to be the top, because she decreed that was how it was to be. Now there are new rules. And the 'rules' will change again. But it's probably up to another team and coaching camp to change them.

 

[sap5]

Has there ever been a big Olympic upset in ice dance (like a proper upset not just a flipping of the established #1 and #2)?

I don't think it's possible, actually. Haven't most judges already decided the Olympic gold before the competition has started (exactly like what's going on in this thread)? For that big of an upset to happen, the chosen team would have to have a truly disastrous performance.

 

[Steph]

I feel like it's a repeat of 4 years ago in that for the games V/M don't have one of their best programs. Last time lots of blame on the coaches favoring D/W. that can't be true this time. Maybe they will win but a better program from Day 1 would have made it easier.

Who knows. They beat Davis and White at 2012 worlds when D/W had, IMO, far and away the best program of their career.

I think their FD this year is choreographically fabulous -- it's all Diva Tessa and I am absolutely here for it -- but I wish they were skating it without vocals. Ah well.

 

[allezfred]

https://m.popkey.co/49dc77/3GYVJ.gif

Oh honey, Asli has forgotten more about ice dance than you will ever know.

 

[Steph]

About who will win gold : the one that skate better on the day. No weird pattern or choctaw, every turn clean, excellent execution, twizzle impeccable and getting everyone to forget you are actually skating.

Nah. The sport's fraught with the same nonsense as ever. Either team could skate better and still lose, and a decade from now people will be arguing about it. Thus has it always been, thus will it always be.