UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[Sylvia]

If I presented you with a wheelbarrow containing $500K to spend at your leisure, and the same wheelbarrow five years from now on the condition that it is thrown over the side of a cliff, which would you take?

I'm not an elite skater, but I'd like to believe that the majority of competitive athletes who love their sport don't think this way.

To be clear, I am not saying he is washed up or that he should give up and go away. I think he is a fantastic skater and I've thought that since he was a junior. I think he is one of the best male skaters in the US if not the world, and I want him to hang in there for as long as he wants to. If he's happy with his placements and progress, that's the most important thing

I agree.

but it would be nice to see him appropriately recognized for what he does so well.

For the most part, I think Jason has been/is being rewarded by the judges for what he does well. Let's see how things go for him as the season progresses.

 

[overedge]

Errr...how many of you who are convinced it’s all over for Jason ever thought Keegan Messing would get it together at 26? If you’d like some perspective on where he was a few years ago, take a look at his protocol for 2014 US Nats, where he had a total score of 197.45, fell twice, and popped four jumps. Keegan has been a senior international competitor since 2012. Give Jason some time before you write him off.

By reading this thread, I don't think there are too many posters who are "convinced it's all over for Jason". Questioning what more he might be capable of is not the same thing as thinking he should find something else to do.

But in response to your point, part of the reason why Keegan's story is notable is that making that sort of advancement at his age is not that common. Also, falling and popping jumps is not the same issue as whether someone is capable of acquiring a quad.

 

[Sylvia]

By the way, Brian’s goal for Jason is to make the World Team this season.

His exact quote in Phil Hersh's recent article was:

“I would like him to have a solid ‘You’re-going-to-worlds’ placement at his national championships,’” Orser said.

In case anyone missed reading it, Hersh's in-depth article on Jason was published before Skate Canada International and the link was posted in other threads but not this one: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018...tory-ahead-of-skate-canada-and-2022-olympics/

 

[Skittl1321]

I guess I'm looking at it from the point of view that Brown should transition into a show career...well, now.

Brown already does shows. There isn't a huge amount of work during the election seasons. Or are you expecting an Olympic medalist to go skate on cruise ships?

Honestly, I'd Brown hadn't blown it so bad in the short, his long didn't put him that far out of contention of the podium. I don't think he'll be a world champion, but I also don't think it is time to send him out to pasture yet.

 

[Willin]

With how the scores are going this season with quads, Jason could be on most podiums if he skates a clean quadless program. If he ads one or two quads in (which, based on practice videos, I'm convinced is an entirely psychological thing for him) he could probably reach a World podium as well. Men's skaters are somehow lasting longer these days - Rippon, Voronov, Messing, Chan, Fernandez, etc. all had perfectly respectable and improving results past 25. I would assume Jason could do the same if he chose to do so. The changes to the IJS really benefit him.

Do I think he'll be world champ? Probably not. But do I think he should retire off to the distance for lack of competitiveness? Oh h*ll no! These scoring changes are the best thing for his career.

I do think he needs a new FS. There's never been a Jason program I didn't connect with at all, but this is one. I can't say why - whether it's the costume, the lack of buildup, the choreography, or what, but it's just not something I like on him.

 

[bardtoob]

I feel like Jason is the Todd and Vincent is the Timothy.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If Jason qualifies to skate in competitions, he has a right to skate. I don't like him, or his skating, so i switch channels when he skates. But if he qualifies, he should be able to skate if he chooses to, and no-one has a right to tell him to "free up the space", it's his money after all.

 

[4rkidz]

Having watched Jason live at skate Canada I’m totally on his bandwagon and am patient for him to relearn some of his jumps. Orser has been very well known in a CANADA for helping girls get their double axels before he became such a well known coach and his methods do work but his team strips down the jumps. Olympics are not for three years he has time

 

[4rkidz]

Brown already does shows. There isn't a huge amount of work during the election seasons. Or are you expecting an Olympic medalist to go skate on cruise ships?

Honestly, I'd Brown hadn't blown it so bad in the short, his long didn't put him that far out of contention of the podium. I don't think he'll be a world champion, but I also don't think it is time to send him out to pasture yet.

In defence of the Olympian’s on cruise ships I’ll have you know they have a very nice lifestyle! But agree Jason isn’t ready yet

 

[Tavi]

By reading this thread, I don't think there are too many posters who are "convinced it's all over for Jason". Questioning what more he might be capable of is not the same thing as thinking he should find something else to do.

But in response to your point, part of the reason why Keegan's story is notable is that making that sort of advancement at his age is not that common. Also, falling and popping jumps is not the same issue as whether someone is capable of acquiring a quad.

Well, I guess reasonable minds can differ, but my sense is that many of the people questioning whether he’s technically maxed out have already concluded that he is.

As to Keegan, yes he’s got a solid 4T and Jason doesn’t. And I agree that falling and popping on quads is not the same as acquiring one. But my intent wasn’t really to compare these two guys directly so much as to say look, not everyone follows the same path.

Jason is undertaking the daunting task of completely reworking his jumps after already having achieved quite a lot without a quad. As important, he needs to get back his confidence after a devastating season - a process which isn’t helped by the fact he’s constantly fighting the old, reflexive way of doing things. Ultimately I don’t think it really matters for Jason how many people have successfully done what Keegan has done, because he has to be successful on his own path, not Keegan’s.

 

[nlyoung]

I wouldn't be surprised if they chose this music precisely because of the relaxed pace, as a way of allowing him time to focus on the new jump technique. I happen to love the first section .

 

[skatfan]

Apparently Jason was uber focused on the 4-sal in all the Skate America practices, and apparently never landed a clean one - plenty of pops and messiness (although no falls, which is better for his body). I question why then put in a jump you have almost no chance of landing? Maybe because the SP was such a mess he didn't have much to lose.

This is a regroup year for Jason. We'll see a year from now how things look.

 

[barbarafan]

He attempted it. He psyched himself out of it. You could tell. I'm sure we'll see it again in France. He'll be fine. He's a hard worker, whatever anyone may think, and he's actually a really pretty good jumper if you take your eyes off the quads for a sec.

"let alone a world team spot"? Who's beating him then? There are three spots, remember. Nathan's a given, you'd think. Vincent? His URs could easily do him in. Alexei? Timothy? Alexander Johnson? Camden? Really? You really think any of those guys are gonna score bigger than a clean Jason, even sans quad?

Everyone's got their eyes on the quad (you better have complained this much about Adam's lack thereof as well). The actual, telling, real signal, was the absolute frickin' money 3A-3T. The US haven't seen one like that since Joshua stopped doing them. That was the signal that when he's less nervous and more comfortable, he's gonna be right as rain.

Tracy expected him to do the quad in the long.. She said when commentating ,,,here comes his quad whatever.....which he doubled. If it was not fairly consistent in practice they would not have put it in the program yet.

 

[skatfan]

Tracy expected him to do the quad in the long.. She said when commentating ,,,here comes his quad whatever.....which he doubled. If it was not fairly consistent in practice they would not have put it in the program yet.

Folks who were at practices at Skate Canada said he never landed a clean one, despite focusing on it almost exclusively in practice.

 

[barbarafan]

Apparently Jason was uber focused on the 4-sal in all the Skate America practices, and apparently never landed a clean one - plenty of pops and messiness (although no falls, which is better for his body). I question why then put in a jump you have almost no chance of landing? Maybe because the SP was such a mess he didn't have much to lose.

This is a regroup year for Jason. We'll see a year from now how things look.

Jason did not skate at Skate America...Are you sure you saw him there messing up 4-sal in the practices?

 

[Willin]

Why aren't they focusing on the 4T? He's posted great videos on instagram and been seen in practices in previous years doing gorgeous 4Ts and even a 4T-3T combination. The only quad he's even had close to landing in competition was a 4T.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Why aren't they focusing on the 4T? He's posted great videos on instagram and been seen in practices in previous years doing gorgeous 4Ts and even a 4T-3T combination. The only quad he's even had close to landing in competition was a 4T.

It is said the 4S is going better so they are focusing on that. Interestingly enough Kori had said before she liked his 4S better, but he was the one that felt more comfortable with the 4T.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If I presented you with a wheelbarrow containing $500K to spend at your leisure, and the same wheelbarrow five years from now on the condition that it is thrown over the side of a cliff, which would you take?

If I set criteria for funding based on last season's results, then I would stand by my word. If I am an organization that sets specific criteria and then re-negs, then I should be de-certified by the USOC.

 

[skatfan]

Jason did not skate at Skate America...Are you sure you saw him there messing up 4-sal in the practices?

Sorry, I meant Skate Canada, brain fart!

 

[mag]

Apparently Jason was uber focused on the 4-sal in all the Skate America practices, and apparently never landed a clean one - plenty of pops and messiness (although no falls, which is better for his body). I question why then put in a jump you have almost no chance of landing? Maybe because the SP was such a mess he didn't have much to lose.

This is a regroup year for Jason. We'll see a year from now how things look.

It is possible Jason in landing the jump in practice in his program when he is not under pressure. If that is the case, the only way to learn to land it under pressure is to try it. Better to try it at his GP’s and get some mileage on it so he has a better chance at Nationals and potentially Worlds. Because of his late start he didn’t have the opportunity to do a few summer comps where he could try it.

 

[Tavi]

He landed a fairly decent one in practice right in front of me at ACI. He messed up a lot of other ones though. This is another one from from the first ACI practice, which I missed. It’s not landed that well and how close he is on rotation isn’t clear, but he didn’t fall or pop.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RsLEAUPNZaQ

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I’ll add my grain of salt ... I saw Jason live at Skate Canada and I quite enjoyed his lp. He really fitted with the music.

 

[Inessence]

Yes, but it's also possible he has not reached his full potential and that's why he decided to take a chance and make the move to Toronto. My impression is Jason strongly desires to have another opportunity to make an Olympic team and IMO that's a worthy enough goal to continue/strive to improve in the next few years.

I agree. No matter what happens he can retire without regret knowing he gave it all he could training-wise.

 

[Yazmeen]

I guess I'm looking at it from the point of view that Brown should transition into a show career...well, now.[/QUOTE

Well, glad that's not your decision.

 

[Rock2]

One benefit of doing the salchow is that you don't run into all kinds of re-organizing if you do a triple or double by mistake. If you do that with the toe, you have two 3Ts and other 2Ts in the program you have to then adjust.

Looks like his elements for the long are setting up to give him two shots at the 4S as well. His program starts with salchow, axel, salchow. This overall plan gives him options without unduly distracting his mind tinkering with the layout on the fly. He just has to make sure that if he starts with a 3S, he would be advised to not repeat that on the 2nd sal pass.

 

[mattiecat13]

I always assumed the ‘Old Friends’ section was Jason’s way of thanking and saying good bye to his former coach, and that the “Hazy Shade of Winter” reflected his move to a new life training in Toronto. IRC his coach Tracy Wilson even mentioned something about him leaving his old friends when she was doing the commentary for this program on CTV. I like Jason’s long program and look forward to seeing it progress as they add to it through the season once he’s more comfortable with the new jump technique.

Except Jason didn't choose the music. David Wilson did.

 

[barbarafan]

Sorry, I meant Skate Canada, brain fart!

ok....I kept missing him on the practices at SCI- (I was watching livestreaming). When I said practices I meant training home at the rink...not at the competition.

 

[Skittl1321]

In defence of the Olympian’s on cruise ships I’ll have you know they have a very nice lifestyle! But agree Jason isn’t ready yet

I have a friend who did the cruise ship thing awhile. He enjoyed it. The pay wasn't great, but the adventures were. They are a public facing role, so he got to go on excursions with guests when there was room. The only "grunt work" was muster drill.

But no one on any of his ships was an Olympic medalist, or even Olympian. They were all just really good skaters who had been juniors or seniors, some without even international experience.

 

[antmanb]

He landed a fairly decent one in practice right in front of me at ACI. He messed up a lot of other ones though. This is another one from from the first ACI practice, which I missed. It’s not landed that well and how close he is on rotation isn’t clear, but he didn’t fall or pop.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RsLEAUPNZaQ

That looks like it landed forward and would get a downgrade to me.

 

[annie720]

Except Jason didn't choose the music. David Wilson did.

David didn't choose the music either. Jason said in an interview that it was an ice dance coach at TCC who first suggested the music. Jason hated the music when he first heard it but the other coaches were on board with it.