UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[MAXSwagg]

Well, in jumps he may be, but he's at or near the top as far as spinning and footwork goes. His transitions are pretty good as well. ...

That would be a valid point...except the jumps are precisely what is holding him back. So who cares about the other aspects?

 

[fscric]

I like Jason a lot. I just wish he had made the coach change a few years ago.

 

[SmallFairy]

It's a sport. A sport is about winning. He's less advanced than the consistently top men.

Sport is about winning, but it's also about pushing yourself, developing, improving, reaching new goals for yourself. It's also about coming together across country boarders, meeting new people, doing the thing you love. In some sports like figure skating, synchro swimming, equestrian dressage etc it's also about giving the audience an something special, and that can happen even if you're in 15th place. If sport was only about winning there would be like three participants in every discipline in skating, and about five in cross country skiing and we could skip qualifying and everything for soccer worlds and just let top five on the FIFA ranking fight for the trophy. And I'm not even a fan of Jason. But I'm excited to see what Brian and his team can do!

 

[misskarne]

It's a sport. A sport is about winning. He's less advanced than the consistently top men.

Funny you should say that, because he has done a fair bit of that winning medal thing in the last four years. Even this season.

 

[Japanfan]

According to the article on Ice Network, he won't be able to accompany Jason to every event, but there will be another coach with whom Jason has worked, that can be there. I don't see that as pecking order, but as the other skaters who have been with Orser already for many years, have first priority.

But if skaters who have been with Orser longer are more likely to have Orser accompany them to events, that is a pecking order IMO.

 

[berthesghost]

Funny you should say that, because he has done a fair bit of that winning medal thing in the last four years. Even this season.

What the heck does " consistently top men" mean anyway. Isn't being in the top 10 at any and all international events you attend "consistently top"? Or are we talking podium, because then who are these consistently podium finish men? Hanyu and Fernandez?

 

[Yazmeen]

That would be a valid point...except the jumps are precisely what is holding him back. So who cares about the other aspects?

Thank you, caseyedwards...

 

[PRlady]

As for Jason, my hunch is that Tracy Wilson (who Brian said argued for taking him on) probably sees him as bringing value to their training group. With Javi gone and Yuzu's future uncertain at this point, TCC is or will be lacking in skaters with top performance skills and artistry. Jason has those qualities and so having him there can be a win-win situation for everyone.

Med lacks performance skills and artistry?

 

[katmari]

What the heck does " consistently top men" mean anyway. Isn't being in the top 10 at any and all international events you attend "consistently top"? Or are we talking podium, because then who are these consistently podium finish men? Hanyu and Fernandez?

I'm just adding to your point here ... Jason has never finished below 9th in any competition ever (national or international). How many skaters can say that? Hanyu can't, Fernandez can't.


Jason as Tigger -- I vote for a tigger tissue box in the Kiss & Cry

 

[kwanfan1818]

The only people who have to feel he's worthy are Orser and Wilson.

I'm thrilled for him. Toronto is one of the greatest cities in North America, even if it thinks so itself, with a lion's share of cultural $$$ and transit, and he's at a perfect age to enjoy it while training in a new kind of environment.

 

[Miki89]

But if skaters who have been with Orser longer are more likely to have Orser accompany them to events, that is a pecking order IMO.

I agree. Based on that article, I don’t get the feeling that Jason is Orser’s priority. The team approach sounds interesting but I wonder if it might be a “too many cooks” situation. It will also be a big change for a skater that had the individual attention of one coach for so long. There’s a lot of uncertainty around this arrangement and it could turn into good results or not work at all. I’m somewhat disappointed, though not surprised, by him getting Wilson for choreography. Artistically, Jason is one, if not, the best among the men, since Daisuke’s retirement. Far more interesting than any of the current top skaters at the Cricket Club imo. I see him bringing more value in that area to the club than the other way around, and I fear he might get saddled with more generic IJS choreography. :/

 

[Rock2]

I agree. Based on that article, I don’t get the feeling that Jason is Orser’s priority. The team approach sounds interesting but I wonder if it might be a “too many cooks” situation.

You mean like how the Dubreuil/Lauzon dance school is struggling to pump out quality across the board among its dozen senior international teams?

 

[Mrs. P]

I’m somewhat disappointed, though not surprised, by him getting Wilson for choreography. Artistically, Jason is one, if not, the best among the men, since Daisuke’s retirement. Far more interesting than any of the current top skaters at the Cricket Club imo. I see him bringing more value in that area to the club than the other way around, and I fear he might get saddled with more generic IJS choreography. :/

FWIW, Wilson also choreographed Daisuke's In the Garden of Souls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsUplazBWp0

Also I always thought Wilson's stuff for Yuna Kim was very good and in several cases, amazing. Perhaps Jason's skill set will provide enable some creativity to the choreography. I know he hasn't been great with Yuzu and I guess people are hit-and-miss on Javi's work from him.

And honestly, Rohene's complex choreography is probably part of the reason it's been challenging for Jason to integrate some of the hard jumps. Of course I don't want Jason to go completely the other way, but I guess we'll see. Honestly, I'm sure it will be exciting for Jason to try out someone new -- Rohene has choreographed for him for a really long time like since he was a Novice kid?

 

[peibeck]

I think that's what he's got planned for Jin.

Oh goodie... Not.

 

[peibeck]

Personally, I would rather see him working with Shae-Lynn than David Wilson. I find her choreography to be more innovative and his to be more fill the box. Jason can handle the former.

I wouldn't consider Shae Lynn innovative based on Ashley Wagner's programs.

 

[Rock2]

I suspect Jason might come out looking like a modern day Buttle. Artistic, but for reasons that tie to the scoring system a bit better.
Having said that, Jeff probably contributed much more to the 'Wilson' choreo than we think. Jeff picked a lot of his music, too, if not practically all of it. Curious to see how much of a voice Jason has or wants.

Randomly, the first thing that hit me when I saw Jason's most recent video is that he looks like he's inching toward cutting off the bun/tail. I initially thought he had since his hair looked shorter on top and sides but there was some left in the back. I'm gonna predict it's gone in the fall. #freshstart

 

[Rock2]

I wouldn't consider Shae Lynn innovative based on Ashley Wagner's programs.

Choreographers aren't miracle workers.
Ashley's SS aren't the best, so you're limited in what you can give her versus, say, Nathan, who has a more complete skating vocabulary and ability to move his body. Also some of the music was forced on her by Wagner.

Nathan's short last year put Shae right up there with some of the greats IMHO. I bow to that piece of work. Cannot question her talent and innovation.

 

[RoseRed]

I agree. Based on that article, I don’t get the feeling that Jason is Orser’s priority. The team approach sounds interesting but I wonder if it might be a “too many cooks” situation. It will also be a big change for a skater that had the individual attention of one coach for so long. There’s a lot of uncertainty around this arrangement and it could turn into good results or not work at all. I’m somewhat disappointed, though not surprised, by him getting Wilson for choreography. Artistically, Jason is one, if not, the best among the men, since Daisuke’s retirement. Far more interesting than any of the current top skaters at the Cricket Club imo. I see him bringing more value in that area to the club than the other way around, and I fear he might get saddled with more generic IJS choreography. :/

You do understand that the team approach is something TCC uses a lot. It's not a new thing they've just invented. Now, who knows whether it'll work for Jason, but it does work for the TCC coaches.

I'd suggest you check out the interview from another TCC skater posted by @katmari a couple pages back. He describes how a team approach works for him: here

Actually, here's an excerpt:

Has Brian been your coach from the beginning?

Yes, Mr. Higuchi asked him to take good care of me, so he began teaching me as soon as I got there. But Tracy Wilson also works hard on my skating skills and I spend a lot of time with her. And coach Ghislain Briand teaches me jumping. And my spin coach came to Junior Nationals to take care about me.

You have a special coach for spins! How many coaches are teaching you!

There are so many coaches at the Cricket club, I don’t even recognize them all, but I think six coaches work in my team setting. It’s pretty amazing! Like Tracy works with skaters in their skating lesson, then she explains not only to each skater but also to their coaches about for example stroking when many skaters share the ice. So I think all coaches have a common perception and work together.

So basically Brian creates a team around each skater?

I guess so. It’s very convenient because I receive guidance from all directions. And what’s more, when I was injured, the orthopedic surgeon who is tied to the Cricket club immediately examined me and he also talked in depth with my coaches about my further treatment.

What does your training regimen look like?

The club has a Pilates teacher whom I work with. And I spend three hours a day on the ice; one hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon. In that time Brian takes about 30 to 40 minutes for me, however, even when he works with other skaters, he occasionally turns to me and advices me on how to jump or warns me that I do something wrong. I feel like I am always watched over by him so I can’t lose my concentration. After skating I do off-ice training for another hour.

 

[Mrs. P]

I got on the Shae Lynn train with her work with Akiko Suzuki, who like Jason, is a great performer. I’d love to see him work with Shae sometime soon.

Also regarding the team thing, kind of reinforces the wholesale change I feel Jason is trying to make. Kori always had Jason work with other coaches but they were on a once in a while basis (like Frank) and required travel. I can see the appeal of being able to specialize with different coaches in one place.

Also I also think Yuzu and Javi worked with all the coaches too not just Brian.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Randomly, the first thing that hit me when I saw Jason's most recent video is that he looks like he's inching toward cutting off the bun/tail. I initially thought he had since his hair looked shorter on top and sides but there was some left in the back. I'm gonna predict it's gone in the fall. #freshstart

Honestly I kinda hope not. He started selling ponytail referencing t-shirts and stuff very recently. I feel like his fans that spent money on them should get to wear them for at least a season with the pony in place. Cutting it so soon after starting to selling would leave a bad taste in my mouth. They could have gone with other options if he was looking to cut it.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Choreographers aren't miracle workers.
Ashley's SS aren't the best, so you're limited in what you can give her versus, say, Nathan, who has a more complete skating vocabulary and ability to move his body. Also some of the music was forced on her by Wagner.

Nathan's short last year put Shae right up there with some of the greats IMHO. I bow to that piece of work. Cannot question her talent and innovation.

Agree 100% with all of this. And Jason already has a Rohene short for next season so it's not like he is going cold turkey, lol. Jason's skill set gives David sooooo much to work with. Any choreographer for that matter. I am going to give it a chance and I think all will be well.

Jason posted a vid this morning of him and his family on the subway and they are freaking crazy, haha. It's pretty cute. Everyone around them just going about their own business.

 

[Miki89]

Also I always thought Wilson's stuff for Yuna Kim was very good and in several cases, amazing. Perhaps Jason's skill set will provide enable some creativity to the choreography. I know he hasn't been great with Yuzu and I guess people are hit-and-miss on Javi's work from him.

His program for Daisuke was one of my least favorites from him. I know Wilson is a popular choice but I have never been much of a fan of his choreography. They are good in terms of ticking IJS requirements but I rarely find them particularly creative. He made some very good programs pre-2010 but post-Vancouver, it has been mostly underwhelming in my opinion. Jason should definitely try working with different choreographers but I hope he continues to work with Rohene, because I think their artistic partnership is a big part of what makes his skating unique.

 

[MacMadame]

I’m somewhat disappointed, though not surprised, by him getting Wilson for choreography

There has been no announcement that I've seen that says who will do his choreography. Wilson was mentioned here but that's just fan talk.

 

[AYS]

There has been no announcement that I've seen that says who will do his choreography. Wilson was mentioned here but that's just fan talk.

The Icenetwork articles says:

At the outset, Brown will not have a primary coach in Toronto; instead, his team will consist of Orser, Tracy Wilson, Karen Preston, Lee Barkell and choreographer David Wilson.

and

Brown's longtime choreographer, Rohene Ward, already has done his short program for next season.

 

[StitchMonkey]

There has been no announcement that I've seen that says who will do his choreography. Wilson was mentioned here but that's just fan talk.

Actually Orser is the one that said he will be getting Wilson free and he already has a Rohene short that Orser likes.

I am ok with Wilson, I think working with Wilson is part of Brian's process for getting to know the skater and such, so it is more than a program, but a tool that can be useful to all involved.

 

[Mrs. P]

His program for Daisuke was one of my least favorites from him. I know Wilson is a popular choice but I have never been much of a fan of his choreography. They are good in terms of ticking IJS requirements but I rarely find them particularly creative. He made some very good programs pre-2010 but post-Vancouver, it has been mostly underwhelming in my opinion. Jason should definitely try working with different choreographers but I hope he continues to work with Rohene, because I think their artistic partnership is a big part of what makes his skating unique.

Good point. His good Yuna Kim work is pre-Vancouver. I still liked Javi's programs from him though, especially Guys and Dolls (it was great seeing it live at Worlds that year)

I also agree that Jason should continue to work with Rohene as much as possible -- if nothing else working with other choreographers might give him a better idea of what he'd like from Rohene.

There has been no announcement that I've seen that says who will do his choreography. Wilson was mentioned here but that's just fan talk.

It's mentioned here. https://www.ifsmagazine.com/jason-brown-heads-north/

Rohene Ward had already choreographed his short program, which Orser intends to keep. “Jason sent us a video and it looks good. I was happy with what I saw. We are now discussing costumes.” David Wilson will choreograph his long program.

 

[RoseRed]

The David Wilson program will work or it won't, but it's not like David is the only choreographer TCC students work with, so he'll have plenty of options in the next few seasons.

Yuzu works with Shae Lynn and Jeff Buttle, Gabby works with Lori Nichols (and Boyang is too), Javi sometimes had a Jeff/David combo, Elizabet has had choreo from Tracy Wilson and Misha Ge, Stephen Gogolev just got a show program by Marie-France Dubreuil and Sam Chouinard.

Not that all of those would be right for Jason, but they are clearly open to lots of different arrangements. He'd have plenty of choice just from people they've worked with before, and I'd guess that they'd be open to him working with someone new if he had someone in mind, as well.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I'm just adding to your point here ... Jason has never finished below 9th in any competition ever (national or international). How many skaters can say that? Hanyu can't, Fernandez can't.


Jason as Tigger -- I vote for a tigger tissue box in the Kiss & Cry

But who has WON the BIG events. A lot of top ten men can have a relatively good chance to win a measly Grand Prix event medal. The fact of the matter is Jason has not lived up to his potential...

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

That would be a valid point...except the jumps are precisely what is holding him back. So who cares about the other aspects?

Ouriaschev or Ralf would seem more logical choices - Ouriaschev because he taught Gracie great technique and who Uno went to for technical help; he can teach jumping. Ralf because he has extended other skaters careers who had seemed to top out. A mature, artistic skater with well-known jump limitations doesn't seem like TCC profile.

 

[Tavi]

For argument’s sake, let’s say Brian isn’t completely sold on Jason. The corollary to that is that Tracy - whom Brian deeply respects - strongly advocated for him, to the extent that the team appears to be juggling schedules in order to take him on. It seems to me that only if you ignore Tracy - maybe because at bottom you think Jason is not talented or “elite” enough to be training at TCC - can you can conclude he’s going to be the lowest priority there. It’s also more than a little odd to conclude it’s too late for him to improve significantly, and/or that past performance is predictive of his future. Me, I applaud his courage in responding to deep disappointment by making a huge change, and I really hope it works out for him.