U.S. Women [#1]: The Contenders Unmask Themselves

[Marco]

Where was Lindsay competing? Isabeau Levito and Kate Wang were at JGP Austria while Karen & Amber were at Finlandia. And Starr was the only senior skater of note to compete at the first US Nationals qualifying competition this past weekend.

Oops I misread Sylvia's post, and Isabeau is too young anyways. Nothing's changed. NVM.

 

[Marco]

Nice to see people crapping on Karen again. And people are surprised when skaters come out years later and say they felt disposable and not supported.

If this was meant for me I actually support Karen to make the team over all others (but Alysa) and adore her programs. I am just upset she didn't get closer to making those envelopes.

 

[skatingguy]

Nice to see people crapping on Karen again. And people are surprised when skaters come out years later and say they felt disposable and not supported.

That's about the Federations, not anonymous message boards.

 

[Coco]

Excuse me but pointing out what someone scored and how it relates to the target scores established by their federation is not crapping on them.

Crapping on them would be like saying there's no point they can't rotate jumps, blah blah blah. I haven't seen anyone say that and if they did it wouldn't be true.

Pointing out that the target is x, skater scored less than x, fellow skater from the same country got closer to x, that is not crapping on somebody.

 

[Maximillian]

So it turns out it is Lindsay (and not Karen) who got closer this weekend to meeting the US Olympic team criterion of matching the top 5 score from 2021 Worlds. Time will tell if she can 'maintain' this level of scores.

Wait, does Karen have to meet that criteria since she was one of the top five scorers from 2021 Worlds?

 

[mtnskater]

I love Karen Chen’s skating so much. Always look forward to seeing her in competition. She has the most beautiful style, great spins (among the best), good speed and high exciting jumps. And that layback and spiral position Sometimes I want to strangle her because I don’t understand why the 3Z/3T is not automatic for her by now….and some of the other jumps with carrots. She is still dealing with her tendency to delay rotation. As we saw from Finlandia there are numerous women who now have solid 3Z/3T including good Russians farmed out to other countries, so she has GOT to get her jumps around better….and with Tammy I’m not sure. But I give her all the points for all around gorgeous skating and always root for her. She has not normally done very well on the Grand Prix and I hope for her this year will be different.

 

[VGThuy]

Excuse me but pointing out what someone scored and how it relates to the target scores established by their federation is not crapping on them.

Crapping on them would be like saying there's no point they can't rotate jumps, blah blah blah. I haven't seen anyone say that and if they did it wouldn't be true.

Pointing out that the target is x, skater scored less than x, fellow skater from the same country got closer to x, that is not crapping on somebody.

What makes you think I was talking about you? I wasn’t talking about Marco either. There have been overwhelming negativity towards Karen since the 2018 Olympics and we all had to wade through it going towards 2021 Worlds with her selection. Then I read the PBP from certain other posters at both Autumn and Finlandia and then there was a post by some that were certainly much more negative than what you and Marco wrote. But since you’ve reacted this way…

Wait, does Karen have to meet that criteria since she was one of the top five scorers from 2021 Worlds?

Good question. So Lindsey got closer to scoring what Karen scored at 2021 Worlds than Karen herself did in the pre-GP season.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Pre-*********, Bradie snagged bronze in a well-skated 2020 4CCs, scoring north of 220 points behind Young You and Rika Kihira. I would like to see her regain that form. Actually, I would like to see Mariah Bell back in shape like in 2019-20. US ladies would be formidable if those 2 could pull it together, along w/ Isabeau and Lindsey

Aside from Valieva the scores at Finland weren't that high. Looking at recent competitions, test skates etc., Russian wonders don't always hit. Someone with a 220 is not irrelevant. Even Valieva has those yanked around, musceled jumps. A couple kilos and it could get hard for her in 4 months. She won't be the first to lose a 3A/4.

 

[Coco]

@VGThuy I didn't think you were talking about me as I don't think I've commented on Karen this weekend. I was just pointing out that posting facts isn't crapping on someone.

@mtnskater Karen's 3z is gorgeous, but it doesn't seem to be combination friendly. She goes way up then comes down. That is my layperson's take on it. I wish that she and many other US ladies had received a message from USFSA that consistently getting a triple on the back end of the SP combo far outweighs doing the 3z in combination. I feel like skaters are pushed (in the US) to get that 3z in the SP so that they can one day do a 3z-3t combo in the SP, but I think that is misguided.

 

[layman]

Great 2nd pancake (as Tamara Moskvina would say) for both Amber and Karen. I was proud of Amber for showing up and getting through both her SP and LP (at her last competition she withdrew after the SP). I love the music and choreography of both her SP and LP and I think she interprets the music well. I know that Amber is capable of more technical content but it's October and she is in a good place from which to build.

When I watch Karen skate, I find myself gasping a lot at the beauty of the Karen-spiral or the Karen-layback or Karen-jumps, which are HUGE and cover a great deal of height and distance (the rotational delay is also beautiful to look at). Karen takes my breath away!

 

[Karen-W]

Wait, does Karen have to meet that criteria since she was one of the top five scorers from 2021 Worlds?

Why wouldn't she be expected to maintain the same standard of scoring as what she achieved at Worlds? The selection criteria clearly states that scoring trends, both upward and downward, will be considered. So, Karen set that standard back in March and now she has to stay in the top 5 range or go up, otherwise her scoring trend would be downward and could drop her into the next tier down for prioritization.

 

[Maximillian]

Why wouldn't she be expected to maintain the same standard of scoring as what she achieved at Worlds? The selection criteria clearly states that scoring trends, both upward and downward, will be considered. So, Karen set that standard back in March and now she has to stay in the top 5 range or go up, otherwise her scoring trend would be downward and could drop her into the next tier down for prioritization.

No, I know...I was being a d**k, because people seem to be talking like A. Chen doesn't exist or B. isn't a factor for making the Olympic team despite having just finished in the top 5 in the World a few months back.

 

[million$momma]

When I watch Karen skate, I find myself gasping a lot at the beauty of the Karen-spiral or the Karen-layback or Karen-jumps, which are HUGE and cover a great deal of height and distance (the rotational delay is also beautiful to look at). Karen takes my breath away!

Karen is a very 6.0 style skater.

 

[PRlady]

Karen is a very 6.0 style skater.

Which might be why I like her. Bradie has more dependable rotated jumps but she skates like she’s ticking off elements. Karen’s programs are holistic, I always feel like I’ve seen a seamless whole when she skates well.

 

[AJ Skatefan]

I love Karen’s skating

 

[DreamSkates]

Why wouldn't she be expected to maintain the same standard of scoring as what she achieved at Worlds? The selection criteria clearly states that scoring trends, both upward and downward, will be considered. So, Karen set that standard back in March and now she has to stay in the top 5 range or go up, otherwise her scoring trend would be downward and could drop her into the next tier down for prioritization.

And that would be in comparison to the scores of other top US ladies' scores and whether they go up or down. It's not a one-way street but a roller coaster ride from now through Nationals. Let's ride!

 

[Maximillian]

Karen is a very 6.0 style skater.

She doesn't seem to do too poorly with IJS, so...

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Karen Chen and Alysa Liu transcend the code of points. I am proud they represent America and have the audacity to intentionally listen to and express their lovely classical music selections.

-BB

 

[Sonata]

Karen Chen is a breath of fresh air. Her programs are thoughtful from beginning to end. She uses her whole body to express the music. Her face lights up from the first note and she's literally using her forearms to make shapes. In this world of flashy personalities and constant PR on social media, it is refreshing to see someone let her skating speak for itself. And instead of imploding after missing her triple-triple in the SP, she went out and landed it in the FP. She's the type of skater that makes me remember that there are other incredible elements in figure skating aside from the jumps.

 

[Marco]

Karen Chen is a breath of fresh air. Her programs are thoughtful from beginning to end. She uses her whole body to express the music. Her face lights up from the first note and she's literally using her forearms to make shapes. In this world of flashy personalities and constant PR on social media, it is refreshing to see someone let her skating speak for itself. And instead of imploding after missing her triple-triple in the SP, she went out and landed it in the FP. She's the type of skater that makes me remember that there are other incredible elements in figure skating aside from the jumps.

Her skating isn't checkbox code-whore skating. It's holistic, it's organic, it's beautiful. Yes she is a perfect 6.0 skater and I felt she was born 20 years too late.

Yes the jumps are troublesome sometimes but I simply can't help for root for her. She not once but twice helped US women kept / maintained 3 spots for the Olympics in the past 2 pre-Olympics Worlds as the US woman with the top placement.

 

[skatingguy]

Her skating isn't checkbox code-whore skating.

Maybe in the future we could find a different way to express that thought.

 

[olympic]

You wouldn’t know Karen was a good skater listening to TSL yammer away

 

[skatingguy]

You wouldn’t know Karen was a good skater listening to TSL yammer away

Really? TSL is always very complimentary of Karen's skating particularly elements like the spins, and spirals. There are questions about her jumps - she had an edge warning, two q's, and two under-rotations at Finlandia, and there was a general conversation during their latest episode about why these same technical issues are still happening, but that wasn't specific to Karen. There was a discussion about why four years later there's still the same technical issues with a number of skaters who have been competing over that period of time.

 

[olympic]

Really? TSL is always very complimentary of Karen's skating particularly elements like the spins, and spirals. There are questions about her jumps - she had an edge warning, two q's, and two under-rotations at Finlandia, and there was a general conversation during their latest episode about why these same technical issues are still happening, but that wasn't specific to Karen. There was a discussion about why four years later there's still the same technical issues with a number of skaters who have been competing over that period of time.

I think she hit a PB in the LP, but they were so gloomy about it. That is probably a better way to describe it

 

[skatingguy]

I think she hit a PB in the LP, but they were so gloomy about it. That is probably a better way to describe it

Well, I think the ladies event in general was pretty gloomy, so Karen's skates were among the better skates, and yes she did hit PB in the LP which I think speaks more to the meaninglessness of that sort of thing. Hitting a PB at this time of year is nice, but I think from Karen's perspective hitting those jumps cleanly is bigger than to try and achieve.

 

[olympic]

Well, I think the ladies event in general was pretty gloomy, so Karen's skates were among the better skates, and yes she did hit PB in the LP which I think speaks more to the meaninglessness of that sort of thing. Hitting a PB at this time of year is nice, but I think from Karen's perspective hitting those jumps cleanly is bigger than to try and achieve.

I guess it's a matter of seeing the glass as half-full or half-empty. I think the PB this early in the season is a good sign

 

[Sylvia]

Bradie's pre-Skate America media call was yesterday (she did not elaborate on her boot/foot issues and talked about her programs) - recapped starting here: https://twitter.com/fsonline/status/1447696718141792258

 

[viennese]

Her skating isn't checkbox code-whore skating. I

 

[viennese]

Code whoring is a perfect expression.
The term ought to go in the Code of Points so skaters can earn full marks for going all in.

 

[Vagabond]

whoring is a perfect expression.
The term ought to go in the Code of Points so skaters can earn full marks for going all in.

whoring

Definition, Synonyms, Translations of whoring by The Free Dictionary

www.thefreedictionary.com

The verb "whore" means

1. To associate or have sexual relations with prostitutes or a prostitute.
2. To accept payment in exchange for sexual relations.
3. To compromise one's principles for personal gain.

So, no, it's not the perfect expression, even if you believe that a skater or a coach is compromising principles for personal gain.