U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

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jiejie said:
9.75 for skating skills for any man not named Patrick Chan is outrageous.
But for their Rostelecom performances specifically, I didn't see Hanyu as having much of an edge on any of the PCS categories over Chen--whatever actual numbers you want to assign to them.
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Well, that is a very...goofy-minded opinion but it is yours so okay. Actually kind of alarming to me what some people think sometimes.
 
^^ Once again, @Sylvia opened a thread in Trash Can for general discussion of the men's discipline.

SkateFanBerlin said:
Right - Kolyada way over scored. I think Nathan needs more art in programs to get higher PCS. His moves look nice. But he'll need more going on to get top PCS. Compare his programs to Chan's or Fernandez's and you'll see what I mean.
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:lol: It's in the eye of the beholder @SkateFanBerlin. Even though ISU judges' scores will remain set in stone, any fs fan worth their salt knows the judges can not be trusted to always judge accurately and consistently for a variety of reasons, but largely because the system has too many faults.

Apparently, some fans can't see Nathan's balletic line, stretch and positions, and his obvious artistic growth from season to season, as well as recognize his innate musicality. Maybe it's that you don't like his style. If you listen to the various broadcast coverages of Rostelecom Cup, you will get different points of view: the Eurosport guys love Nathan and recognize how he's grown and what he's bringing to the sport this season with his very well choreographed programs with wonderful music selection. In fact most of the Rostelecom coverage was very positive toward Nathan and respectful toward Hanyu. Since Johnny loves Hanyu, he was more supportive of Hanyu, but with Nathan's overall win, NBC came around to pointing out the strong statement Nathan made at Rostelecom, and indeed all season long with how strategically he's approached each competition.

I believe Nathan and Raf have a good handle on where Nathan needs to improve and he's placed himself in an excellent position to this point in the season. There are just so many Nathan nitpickers around seemingly distraught over the upsetting of the status quo apple cart. I love the beauty of Nathan's quad loop which he had going in his first two competitions. It will be interesting to see if Nathan eventually reincorporates the 4-loop into his more quad-packed free programs (which apparently requires a lot of concentration and advance planning re lay-out).

Although I am also underwhelmed by Mikhail Kolyada falling and seeming to currently not live up to his extraordinary talents, I wouldn't count out or underestimate Kolyada so easily. It's better not to try and make predictions, as Raf remarks in the recent interview (posted in GSD): "You can never guess how things will end up, especially in figure skating."
 
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MAXSwagg said:
Why was it even being discussed to begin with? But like I said, I'm not surprised that it is. I've been through this with during Yuna's time. I don't have the energy anymore because it never clicks with the person you're explaining it to. As far as fans being upset, you can also see the vicious attacks from non-Hanyu fans in those comments as well, and they take it beyond the scores more often than not.
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Wow, this explains so much of the "my fav is the GOAT and how dare anyone compare any other skater to him" attitude.:scream:
 
shine said:
Wow, this explains so much of the "my fav is the GOAT and how dare anyone compare any other skater to him" attitude.:scream:
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Don't get dramatic, please. There are many fans who deliberately spread lies and exaggerate about another skater's fans.
 
aftershocks said:
There are just so many Nathan nitpickers around seemingly distraught over the upsetting of the status quo apple cart.
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This x 1000.

It started domestically in the US a couple of seasons ago when Nathan had the "audacity" to upstage the sentimental favorites (even though the US Nats judges still held him down). Now that he cannot be denied at the national level, and is an actual OGM threat, the vitriol is escalating internationally. I am sure it will continue through the season, and very possibly beyond.

For me, I am more than thrilled to be witness to the most exciting men's field ever! :cool:
 
Willin said:
... Kolyada's over-scoring was astounding. I don't know what the judges were thinking.
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And again, this general conversation is best to be taken over to the new thread about men that @Sylvia opened in Trash. I will respond to your post there.

And here's my cross-post from Nathan's thread via Shibs thread (so much overlap going on):
Rukia said:
Watching the actual NBC replay it's interesting because you can see the party line. Of course it was 50% Nathan Chen, but they showed the Shibutani's FD. Johnny and Tara loooved it... it's nice to see them pushing them in their non-Chen time.
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The party line to me seemed more about being sure to pump up Olympic faves Hanyu and Medvedeva. Sure there was a lot about Nathan, as they showed Nathan's winning sp which deserved to be shown. However, Johnny made a lot of critical comments about Nathan as part of the 'must nitpick Nathan' contingent. :lol: It's fine, as nothing about the figure skating competitive process and rampant politics seems to faze Nathan. People forget that even despite his young age, Nathan has loads of experience skating and winning against competitors much older than him at every level of the sport over the years.

IMO, NBC is apparently making sure not to over-hype Nathan too much, as they learned their lesson from the boot snafu Nathan faced at Helsinki Worlds which led to his having trouble prevailing for at least a podium spot. And yet Nathan still set records at Worlds anyway. In fact, Johnny had some overly critical things to say about Nathan, as did Ryan Bradley on the Olympic channel coverage. I'm fine with them tempering the over-hype of Nathan, but they are not exactly correct about the specifics of what Nathan needs to work on nor are they giving him enough credit for his clear growth and improvements since 2015. Probably they are as usual trying to show they are not being overly partisan to U.S. skaters.
 
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skateboy said:
This x 1000.

It started domestically in the US a couple of seasons ago when Nathan had the "audacity" to upstage the sentimental favorites (even though the US Nats judges still held him down). Now that he cannot be denied at the national level, and is an actual OGM threat, the vitriol is escalating internationally. I am sure it will continue through the season, and very possibly beyond.

For me, I am more than thrilled to be witness to the most exciting men's field ever! :cool:
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I'm sorry @skateboy, I'm not even sure where this is coming from.

I haaaaated Nathan's programs in 2015-2016. I love Saint-Saens Organ symphony (who doesn't?:)), and IMHO, stroke stroke, stroke, JUMP, stroke, stroke, stroke JUMP did nothing for me or for the music, I don't care how many quads he landed, and any number of programs were better. Including the ones in my opinion that justifiably won over Nathan at 2016 Nats.

Now, you may tell me that I was as blind as blind can be, so be it. But it's not because I was sitting there clutching my pearls going, "Dear Lawdy, my fav is losing". It's because that's what I really, honestly thought about that program. The SP was a teensy weensy weensy bit better, at least as not as empty as the Saint-Saens. Nathan's programs last year were somewhat better, at least the SP was a real program. Certainly Nathan's programs were better than Vincent's, and far more jumps than Jason skating on a broken leg could manage. (And I do not kid myself that healthy Jason would have equaled their jump contents).

So please don't ascribe motives to me, at least, that aren't there, and that I have given no one (I hope) cause to believe. If I criticize Nathan, it is because I honestly truly believe criticism is warranted. Even if I'm dead wrong.:D

Nah, that could never be:p

On to Skate Canada:cheer2:
 
Happy for Nathan. The whole 3-2toes thing may be a minor issue here but IMO signifies a bigger issue. He changes his game plan so often it is difficult to simultaneously focus on the crazy tricks and at the same time improvise a plan B while moving. He needs to try to stick to a master plan. Incidentally doing a 3axel2toe is better than just a solo 3axel since the latter would lead to a 20% discount in BV. And doing a 3axel1toe is still only worth a 3axel anyways.

Quite disappointed in Grant. He might not have moved up a lot even if he had skated well because he didn't have the BV of the Russians or the PCS of Misha Ge, but to be an Olympic team contender and be so unready during a GP is alarming.
 
skateboy said:
:confused: Did I mention you even once in my post?
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No, you did not. So I apologize for, in my haste, making it personal.

But since I have been a "Nathan nitpicker" from way back, I decided to stand up for all of us:lol: Particularly since I have been on the receiving end of "Oh, it's just cause you're a Jason uber you can't see the true lovely artistic dimensions of Nathan's skating" (and again, not necessarily from you; I really don't remember the posters, or even which Boards.)

But hey, what's a Board for if not unnecessary generalizations and jumping to conclusions:biggrinbo
 
Interview with Alex Krasnozhon by Vladislav Luchianov: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/10/23/259374292
Icenetwork: What do you expect from yourself in the JGP Final and in the competitions that will follow this season?
Krasnozhon: I expect myself to give one of my best performances at the JGP Final, showing more improved skating from what I've done earlier this season. In the next competition, which would be nationals, I expect to be top six. I want to show that even though I am young, I am still capable of setting the bar high.
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He wants to be a cardiologist after his skating career. :cool:
 
skateboy said:
This x 1000.

It started domestically in the US a couple of seasons ago when Nathan had the "audacity" to upstage the sentimental favorites (even though the US Nats judges still held him down). Now that he cannot be denied at the national level, and is an actual OGM threat, the vitriol is escalating internationally. I am sure it will continue through the season, and very possibly beyond.

For me, I am more than thrilled to be witness to the most exciting men's field ever! :cool:
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I agee to a point. I don't think that U.S. judges necessarily 'held Nathan down.' I believe they've been watching carefully and waiting for him to grow up and continue to shine as he has throughout his young/old career. Nathan has been competing and beating guys who are older than him for a long time. :)

I personally do not feel that Nathan needed to be National champion in such a rush in 2016. He still had his bodily growing pains to work out. And everything has been working out for him in due time, IMHO. There are always lessons to be learned along the way. And timing and luck are everything, in addition to the hard work and talent he's been blessed with.
 
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pairskatingfan said:
Top 6 will be very improbable for him. The top 5 are all incredibly unbeatable for him, while 6-8 will need to make mistakes too.
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I suppose you are right. I would rank Ross no. 6 right now and he has better SS than Alexei, but he will need to stay on his feet
 
I think it's a bit of a stretch, but what goal isn't a stretch? That's why it's a goal. Although he worded it that he "expects" to be in the Top 6, I think that's just another way athletes motivate themselves - to say they expect something. For some, it makes the let down worse when they don't meet it, but for others it can be a great way to motivate them for future training because they are confident they can do it with more hard work.
His skating skills aren't better than some of the other men (Ross, Grant), but he's working on them. I think if he keeps working hard through Nationals he can get 6th or maybe even 5th.
 
Of Alexei, Ross and Grant, none have a reliable Quad to make any one of them stand out from the other. But, Alexei's 3A is just as, if not more reliable, than either Ross or Grant's 3A. For some reason, those two seem to whiff on that jump lately. Still, as I said, both have better SS than Alexei. I think Alexei's SP is entertaining. I do find his LP is like watching a 4 minute pasta commercial, though.
 
If no blowups, I would consider Adam, Jason, Vincent, Chen, and Max a solid top 5, yes. After that, I think Ross, Alexei, Tim, Grant, and Alex Johnson could finish in any order. Grant tends to peak at Nationals at tank internationally, while Ross is the opposite. Tim always seems right on the verge of a breakout, and Alex seems to be on the upswing, but also, he always seems to be in his own little 7th place category. I would give some thought to the strong finishes by Torgashev, Camden, and Tomoki on the JGP as well, and lets see how the GP series plays out...
 
Mostly agree w/ the aforementioned - Chen, Brown, Aaron, Zhou, Rippon in the first tier and the only realistic medalists / choices for the Olympic team. Second tier consists of Miner, Hochstein, Dolensky, Krasnozhon and Johnson. Miner has the highest international PB of these men. Hochstein was 10th at 2016 Worlds but his personal best is about 10 points behind Miner. Krasnozhon is on an upswing and Johnson was promising at Nebelhorn. Dolensky seems to be kind of stagnating TBH.
 
haribobo said:
I would give some thought to the strong finishes by Torgashev, Camden, and Tomoki on the JGP as well
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Camden Pulkinen will compete Junior at Nationals again.

Andrew Torgashev now is listed for Warsaw Cup (Nov. 16-19), his second ISU Challenger in two years. He scored 32.84 TES in the SP at CS Tallinn Trophy last year (Worlds minimum is 34) and 65.66 at the Philadelphia Summer International in August 2017 (Worlds FS minimum is 64).
 
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