MAXSwagg
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This is a very irresponsible post filled with misrepresentations. I'm shocked this is from you. Very low.
U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news
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This is a very irresponsible post filled with misrepresentations. I'm shocked this is from you. Very low.
bardtoob
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You were right, I was wrong.
@MAXSwagg How so? I'm just stating things I could easily link proof to. Feel free to explain what you think is misrepresenting things.
For the record, I like Yuzu, and I love his attitude - that his goal is to improve his skating and to be a good student of the sport, and that he talks about losing about being due to something he needs to improve on (not about other skaters or the judges). I just don't like how some of his most vocal fans can be insulting to other skaters and fans.
For the record, I like Yuzu, and I love his attitude - that his goal is to improve his skating and to be a good student of the sport, and that he talks about losing about being due to something he needs to improve on (not about other skaters or the judges). I just don't like how some of his most vocal fans can be insulting to other skaters and fans.
Yeah they are acting like he's the second coming of Yagudin.
misskarne
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What?
He got 88 for a program that was, in your own words, "sloppy and mistake filled". That's not hosed. That's ridiculous. If they're going to give sloppy Nathan 88 then clean Jason better be getting 97s. (Which he won't, because he's going to be at Skate Chanada, so if we want to talk dodgy scoring...)I did think Kolyada was overmarked. But to say Nathan was undermarked for what he did? C'mon...
Anyway, so now two of the current US men have GP golds, well done Nathan.
MAXSwagg
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Most of it is sensationalized or actions of a few people who aren't even fans. Reminds me of people attacking Yuna fans.
MAXSwagg
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What?
I did think Kolyada was overmarked. But to say Nathan was undermarked for what he did? C'mon...
Anyway, so now two of the current US men have GP golds, well done Nathan.
I read this too and was equally as shocked as you.
Oh, wait. I forgot because ballet.@MAXSwagg I wouldn't say it's sensationalized. You can read the comments directly and they will say just that (accusations of plagiarism, denying that Nathan ever beat Hanyu, etc.). I've never said it's all fans - just some vocal ones. There's crazy vocal fans about literally everything and Hanyu is no exception - and yes, they are fans. Maybe there are some trolls thrown in there, but many are legit fans as evidenced by other comments or posts they make about that skater and other skaters.
And this is not an attack on Hanyu - many popular skaters have them - Hanyu, Uno, Yagudin, Plushenko, Scott Hamilton, Patrick Chan, Virtue/Moir, etc. etc. I'm sure we could make a whole thread linking to posts and comments made by crazy fans of skaters around the world. Hanyu just has the most visible crazy fans because he is one of the most popular skaters right now and because they have a "reason" to make themselves visible (his loss).
And this is not an attack on Hanyu - many popular skaters have them - Hanyu, Uno, Yagudin, Plushenko, Scott Hamilton, Patrick Chan, Virtue/Moir, etc. etc. I'm sure we could make a whole thread linking to posts and comments made by crazy fans of skaters around the world. Hanyu just has the most visible crazy fans because he is one of the most popular skaters right now and because they have a "reason" to make themselves visible (his loss).
MAXSwagg
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But there are also many, many instances of people either exaggerating or outright lying about how fans act or what they say (stealing seats, not supporting other skaters, saying bad things about other skaters during the competition). That is well documented as well. I also see people starting to do this with Medvedeva's fans.
@MAXSwagg Yes, lying like that happens, but it doesn't make my post untrue or exaggerated. I also don't know how many of the accusations you list are false or true. It's probably just one skater's crazy fans getting in a typical crazy fan fight with crazy fans of another skater. Honestly I wish I could have a camera so I could make a thread at competitions to document the crazy that happens between these crazy fans. (Maybe at Nationals?)
BUT, you cannot say that crazy fans are entirely innocent or victimized - many manipulate the actions or statements of other fans to make themselves seem victimized (as you often see in comment sections).
Besides, I kinda see crazy fans as a good thing. Generally you don't get crazy fans to that degree unless you're popular to some extent, so the fact that skating has crazy fans suggests it is popular.
BUT, you cannot say that crazy fans are entirely innocent or victimized - many manipulate the actions or statements of other fans to make themselves seem victimized (as you often see in comment sections).
Besides, I kinda see crazy fans as a good thing. Generally you don't get crazy fans to that degree unless you're popular to some extent, so the fact that skating has crazy fans suggests it is popular.
MAXSwagg
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But it's biased and unbalanced when people mention one set but don't mention another. Of course, I am not surprised that it is only Hanyu fans that are spoken about in this light but not the fans of others (at least not until I brought it up). And spewing some words in a comment section is different than lying and making up things to event organizers.
@MAXSwagg The reason only Hanyu's fans were brought up is because they were the only ones relevant to the situation. The situation is Hanyu's fans being upset that Nathan beat him. How are any other crazy fans relevant to that situation. In fact, I didn't seen any hardcore Nathan fans in the comment sections - just a couple people congratulating him on his win or praising the choreography as unique. No fans of any other skater were relevant to that point.
Lying and making up things is a new level of insane. Not that I'm doubting you (I don't put anything past crazy fans, and that's certainly something I could see them doing), but is there any articles about the situation so I can laugh about crazy fans being crazy?
Lying and making up things is a new level of insane. Not that I'm doubting you (I don't put anything past crazy fans, and that's certainly something I could see them doing), but is there any articles about the situation so I can laugh about crazy fans being crazy?
MAXSwagg
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Why was it even being discussed to begin with? But like I said, I'm not surprised that it is. I've been through this with during Yuna's time. I don't have the energy anymore because it never clicks with the person you're explaining it to. As far as fans being upset, you can also see the vicious attacks from non-Hanyu fans in those comments as well, and they take it beyond the scores more often than not.
MRani
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Back to Nathan’s win...wasn’t Raf’s reaction totally adorable? Nathan was great this weekend and it was nice to see him and Raf so happy in the K&C 
@MAXSwagg Because people were discussing how upset Hanyu fans were that he lost.
I have seen no vicious attacks in those comment sections. Not that I don't believe you, just that I haven't seen. Like I said - I only saw posts from his fans congratulating him and I looked at the posts from all the major English-language skating coverage sources along with YouTube. Hanyu fans also take it beyond the scores - in fact one straight up said in almost these exact words "scoring higher than Hanyu is not beating him." And then went on to explain that because Nathan is a younger skater he should score lower. Others piggybacked off this and said that because Nathan isn't as developed (yet), scoring higher doesn't count as a win. Which makes no sense. Yes, this behavior happens everywhere and for every top skater, but that doesn't excuse that Hanyu's fans do it.
TBH, I think Nathan will have the craziest "fan" reaction of all time if he skates clean and doesn't win Olympic gold. Primarily because the US audience who only watches every four years has (and will have him) hyped up for them so hard. Already NBC is treating him as if he has a very good shot at gold - which he does, but US fans often take that as a guarantee that he'll win gold if he doesn't screw up. If he doesn't live up to that expectation, I'm betting there will be plenty of 'MURICANs and even some sports reporters complaining all over the web. Well, unless somehow he loses to another American.
I'm also surprised I've never seen a crazy Jason fan in the comments anywhere - with how popular he was after that viral video before the Olympics, you'd think people would've been crazier. Maybe because he wasn't overhyped by NBC and the commentators did a good job at keeping expectations realistic once he got to the Olympics?
I have seen no vicious attacks in those comment sections. Not that I don't believe you, just that I haven't seen. Like I said - I only saw posts from his fans congratulating him and I looked at the posts from all the major English-language skating coverage sources along with YouTube. Hanyu fans also take it beyond the scores - in fact one straight up said in almost these exact words "scoring higher than Hanyu is not beating him." And then went on to explain that because Nathan is a younger skater he should score lower. Others piggybacked off this and said that because Nathan isn't as developed (yet), scoring higher doesn't count as a win. Which makes no sense. Yes, this behavior happens everywhere and for every top skater, but that doesn't excuse that Hanyu's fans do it.
TBH, I think Nathan will have the craziest "fan" reaction of all time if he skates clean and doesn't win Olympic gold. Primarily because the US audience who only watches every four years has (and will have him) hyped up for them so hard. Already NBC is treating him as if he has a very good shot at gold - which he does, but US fans often take that as a guarantee that he'll win gold if he doesn't screw up. If he doesn't live up to that expectation, I'm betting there will be plenty of 'MURICANs and even some sports reporters complaining all over the web. Well, unless somehow he loses to another American.
I'm also surprised I've never seen a crazy Jason fan in the comments anywhere - with how popular he was after that viral video before the Olympics, you'd think people would've been crazier. Maybe because he wasn't overhyped by NBC and the commentators did a good job at keeping expectations realistic once he got to the Olympics?
MAXSwagg
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It's expected. Azuma is a known supporter of Shoma within the federation. Even so, a 9.75 for Nathan Chen in skating skills is absolutely outrageous.
9.75 for skating skills for any man not named Patrick Chan is outrageous.
But for their Rostelecom performances specifically, I didn't see Hanyu as having much of an edge on any of the PCS categories over Chen--whatever actual numbers you want to assign to them.
But for their Rostelecom performances specifically, I didn't see Hanyu as having much of an edge on any of the PCS categories over Chen--whatever actual numbers you want to assign to them.
olympic
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Turning our eyes to next week, Downtown Brown is up to bat at SC. He did well during the Challenger Series and nailed the basics in his programs. It would be fantastic if he could do a little more and land just 1 quad.
Sylvia
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Five.
Grant tweeted his post-Rostelecom Cup self-assessment: https://twitter.com/Grant_Hochstein/status/921725418696335360
Does someone want to start a thread in the Trash Can for general discussion/etc. of the Grand Prix men (like there are already for pairs & dance)? Just a thought.
olympic
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I like his vow to do better at CoC. I'd like to see some PB's from Grant. I really do.
Lizziebeth
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I was worried that Raf would squish Nathan so hard he would hurt him!!Yep, and Nathan's reaction (or non-reaction) was almost equally funny, in comparison... Have you already seen this?
SkateFanBerlin
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Right - Kolyada way over scored. I think Nathan needs more art in programs to get higher PCS. His moves look nice. But he'll need more going on to get top PCS. Compare his programs to Chan's or Fernandez's and you'll see what I mean.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
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After all those mistakes I thought for SURE Kolyada would be out of top 6. -4 points in deductions and your reward is that you move up one spot? Child, please.
Just doesn't seem right.
If thats the case then Ash is SkAM Champion and I don't care how many < or << or deductions homegirl gets.. HOME ICE BABY!!!!!!! What rules?...... lol Sorry, not sorry. lol
@SkateFanBerlin His programs were awful last year, but I think Nathan's 2017-2018 SP is the best of the season. The FP is good as well, particularly the Rite of Spring section. Honestly, his programs this year are some of the most unique and artistic by far. They're not just generic classical music or warhorses. I do think he needs to work on the performance and skating skills still, but the choreography is up there with Seimei in memorableness. Maybe he doesn't have Chan's Skating Skills, but certainly better music choices and choreography than him. I can't deny that Chan is a beautiful skater but his programs are so boring.
Kolyada's over-scoring was astounding. I don't know what the judges were thinking.
Kolyada's over-scoring was astounding. I don't know what the judges were thinking.
SkateFanBerlin
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Different strokes. I love Chan's programs. They're not programmatic, but the beauty of his abstract skating. His movements have emotional meaning too which is what I think differentiates him from Hanyu. Hanyu moves are beautiful but not much emotional range. Youthful energy, fierce fighter, etc.
Sylvia
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I went ahead and started a thread for the men: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ic-season-everyone-fights-for-himself.102084/
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skateboy
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Absolutely agree about Kolyada.
Bolded part: Chan, yes. Fernandez? I think Nathan is already on a par with him.
olympic
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Chan has the best SS in town, and I say that as a non-fan.
Fernandez is in the mold of a Katarina Witt - His skating is not perfect and his SS while great is not overwhelming. (his spins for example are subpar relative to some of the other top men), but his big, brash personality on the ice carries the day.
Hanyu probably offers the best TES/PCS combo of the top men (depends on the program - the Asian themed programs are where he is at his best).
I would say that Nathan Chen has the TES advantage over almost everyone, but is playing catch-up on the PCS, and catching up he is! I think Boyang is also in this category, too - Great TES, better in PCS this past season.
ETA - I forgot Uno. He is also developing a great TES/PCS package. I think Nathan and Boyang have purer jump technique, but Uno equalizes it w/ the choreography.
Also, I am very interested to see Kolyada's marks outside of Russia. They were a farce at RC, so I think we need more info to see where he actually stands w/ regard to the top 6 men. Ten has the most talent outside the top 6, but he seems to continue having problems, so I still think Kolyada is the outsider w/ the biggest chance to get close to those six men.
Fernandez is in the mold of a Katarina Witt - His skating is not perfect and his SS while great is not overwhelming. (his spins for example are subpar relative to some of the other top men), but his big, brash personality on the ice carries the day.
Hanyu probably offers the best TES/PCS combo of the top men (depends on the program - the Asian themed programs are where he is at his best).
I would say that Nathan Chen has the TES advantage over almost everyone, but is playing catch-up on the PCS, and catching up he is! I think Boyang is also in this category, too - Great TES, better in PCS this past season.
ETA - I forgot Uno. He is also developing a great TES/PCS package. I think Nathan and Boyang have purer jump technique, but Uno equalizes it w/ the choreography.
Also, I am very interested to see Kolyada's marks outside of Russia. They were a farce at RC, so I think we need more info to see where he actually stands w/ regard to the top 6 men. Ten has the most talent outside the top 6, but he seems to continue having problems, so I still think Kolyada is the outsider w/ the biggest chance to get close to those six men.
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