U.S. Men 2022-23 news & updates

[Trillian]

Well Ilia won the technical portion and Jason won PCS, not too shabby.

I really appreciate that Ilia commented in the press conference that he’ll probably scale back on the jumps a little and focus on PCS next season (paraphrasing). I’m sure he’s already gotten that advice anyway, but as a parent, I’m not surprised that a boy his age had to learn from experience on that one. I’m looking forward to seeing him develop other areas of his skating and I’m hopeful that it’ll mean less wear and tear on his body. It’s been fun to watch him grow and I’d hate to see him burn out too fast.

Jason is Jason. It’s always good to see him out there doing things his own way, and I’m happy the U.S. men will have three spots for next year.

 

[olympic]

I really appreciate that Ilia commented in the press conference that he’ll probably scale back on the jumps a little and focus on PCS next season (paraphrasing). I’m sure he’s already gotten that advice anyway, but as a parent, I’m not surprised that a boy his age had to learn from experience on that one. I’m looking forward to seeing him develop other areas of his skating and I’m hopeful that it’ll mean less wear and tear on his body. It’s been fun to watch him grow and I’d hate to see him burn out too fast.

Jason is Jason. It’s always good to see him out there doing things his own way, and I’m happy the U.S. men will have three spots for next year.

Maybe this hopefully means suspension of the 4A. I worry what that will do to his body in the long run. As national champ and World medalist, he will get attention from serious choreographers (if he isn't already)

 

[Evgeniafan]

Maybe this hopefully means suspension of the 4A. I worry what that will do to his body in the long run. As national champ and World medalist, he will get attention from serious choreographers (if he isn't already)

The 4A is not worth enough. I think he should do it at most 2 competitions. A challenger and one more.

 

[mtnskater]

Congratulations to Ilia and Jason for doing so well at Worlds! Jason’s gorgeous perfect skating had me in tears again. Grasshopper Ilia and his fire power were so much fun. He attempted crazy difficulty and he mostly succeeded, resulting in a podium finish in a night of fierce competition. I’m also excited to see Torgy get a big opportunity for experience after so many years of injury. I hope he can train hard with Raf and that USFS will send him out for more competitive experience next fall. I can’t imagine skating in front of that giant crowd with so little recent competitive experience under his belt.

And if my man Chen was here he likely would have still cleaned everyone’s clock. I wish he was so we could enjoy him awhile longer and Ilia could develop a little more out of the spotlight.

The mens free had so many programs I would watch again. I don’t think the women had one I will replay.

 

[skateboy]

The 4A is not worth enough. I think he should do it at most 2 competitions. A challenger and one more.

Like worlds, maybe?

 

[tony]

I think it's somewhat funny that when the judges make use of the PCS properly more-or-less for once, people are a little annoyed that other skaters who skated cleanly and have infinitely better posture and positions in their jumps and other elements throughout their programs are beating all those quads.

I mean, didn't we circle this for years with how unfair it was when the Russian women were out-TESing everyone else with a lack of a program? Spoiler alert- Ilia has even less of a program than they did

I do think he's driven enough that he will go back and work on these things rather than just assume his PCS will just skyrocket for doing nothing different. He also needs to work on the flow out of the jumps, regardless of how difficult they may be. The GOEs were rightfully very conservative for the jumps he was producing, and the dicey landings were called in a few instances.

 

[VGThuy]

I think it's somewhat funny that when the judges make use of the PCS properly more-or-less for once, people are a little annoyed that other skaters who skated cleanly and have infinitely better posture and positions in their jumps and other elements throughout their programs are beating all those quads.

I mean, didn't we circle this for years with how unfair it was when the Russian women were out-TESing everyone else with a lack of a program? Spoiler alert- Ilia has even less of a program than they did

I do think he's driven enough that he will go back and work on these things rather than just assume his PCS will just skyrocket for doing nothing different.

Yeah but he’s still more enjoyable to watch. Actually, I’m not sure. He’s kind of hunchy and very sloppy as he moves from element to element. I just can’t with Eteri hideousness. I even preferred Tuk and her two-foot skating from 2015 Worlds.

 

[skateboy]

Okay, about Jason: while posters have dissed me about my feelings here, I will say this: I love Jason. (We even share the same birthday, so how could I not be pulling for him?)

The guy could be an Olympic champion. He's a beautiful skater with wonderful qualities. I want him to be on the Worlds podium. I've wanted that since he was in Juniors.

I just want him to be competitive. Bring back your your quad toe or salchow or both.

Okay, I'll shut up. Now shame me, I'm ready.

 

[tony]

I just want him to be competitive. Bring back your your quad toe or salchow or both.

Okay, I'll shut up. Now shame me, I'm ready.

I don't think there's any reason to 'shame' you, but I do think there's something to consider here. Just because Jason is a glorious skater in all other aspects doesn't mean the quads are going to ever be there consistently enough (or rotated enough) to make him 'competitive'. They never were before, and his 3A is as tight as can be as it is. Why try things that risk < or << and then you end up even lower than if you just go out and deliver what you know you can do?

I've seen fun-style posts here over the years asking things like 'Which singles skater would make a great ice dancer?' and even outside of threads such as that, people thought Takahashi had these amazing deep edges that could quickly convert him into a superstar in ice dance. But we've actually seen quite the opposite: his edges continue to be incredibly shallow and wobbly compared to many other dancers, even those who were not even teenagers yet when he started this ice dance journey.

So what I'm getting at with this comparison is that just because everything else is amazing within one's skating, I don't think it's a case of just 'bring back your jumps' with Jason. He simply can't do them. I said this in another thread, but I'll repeat here: Aymoz had the skate of his life last night. Cha had the skate of his life. Jason was right in there for a medal, even without quads. Everyone has a blueprint of what they know to work best for them. Aymoz was constantly trying both 4T and 4S, and he was usually wiping out on 4S (or later on just tripling it) and falling apart otherwise in short programs. Who knows, Malinin might scale back now too while he focuses on other aspects of his skating.

 

[Jammers]

Congratulations to Ilia and Jason for doing so well at Worlds! Jason’s gorgeous perfect skating had me in tears again. Grasshopper Ilia and his fire power were so much fun. He attempted crazy difficulty and he mostly succeeded, resulting in a podium finish in a night of fierce competition. I’m also excited to see Torgy get a big opportunity for experience after so many years of injury. I hope he can train hard with Raf and that USFS will send him out for more competitive experience next fall. I can’t imagine skating in front of that giant crowd with so little recent competitive experience under his belt.

And if my man Chen was here he likely would have still cleaned everyone’s clock. I wish he was so we could enjoy him awhile longer and Ilia could develop a little more out of the spotlight.

The mens free had so many programs I would watch again. I don’t think the women had one I will replay.

Yeah let's be honest it took Nathan being out of the equation for Shoma to finally win a World title. In truth Nathan should have 4 consecutive Worlds titles to his name probably and possibly 5 or 6 if he stayed in for another couple of years.

 

[misskarne]

I just want him to be competitive. Bring back your your quad toe or salchow or both.

He just came top 5 at Worlds, only three points lower than Ilia and his squillion quads, 18 or so places above the other US man Torgashev, and you're already whining and moaning about the lack of quad? It hasn't even been 24 hours, for fcuk's sake! Let us at least enjoy the gift he gave us all last night!

Jason's score last night was good enough for a bronze at Worlds last year (would have been higher than Zhou's by three points), fourth in 2021, fourth in 2019 (Zhou's score would have beaten him by just one point), and silver in 2018.

Jason is competitive, whether you like it or not.

And thank goodness he was there, because if the US had been relying on Torgashev to help Malinin get the three spots, well, they'd have two.

USFS should be on their knees begging Jason to continue.

 

[Karen-W]

Eh, I still stand by the opinion I have regarding the US Men, which is the same as the US Women - if the USFS needs to "beg" skaters to keep competing in order to secure 3 spots then they're doing a shitty job of identifying and developing younger talents. It worked out for Jason and the US Men this year. Not so much for the US Women, gambling on the veteran Tennell. Who knows what will happen next year?

 

[skateboy]

Eh, I still stand by the opinion I have regarding the US Men, which is the same as the US Women - if the USFS needs to "beg" skaters to keep competing in order to secure 3 spots then they're doing a shitty job of identifying and developing younger talents. It worked out for Jason and the US Men this year. Not so much for the US Women, gambling on the veteran Tennell. Who knows what will happen next year?

That's EXACTLY my feeling. Thank you.

 

[tony]

Eh, I still stand by the opinion I have regarding the US Men, which is the same as the US Women - if the USFS needs to "beg" skaters to keep competing in order to secure 3 spots then they're doing a shitty job of identifying and developing younger talents. It worked out for Jason and the US Men this year. Not so much for the US Women, gambling on the veteran Tennell. Who knows what will happen next year?

Since when did they beg Tennell to come back, and how did they gamble on her? It wasn't even a debatable final Nationals result/World team selection. I think based on some posts this month that I was in an alternate dimension of watching Nationals and World Juniors. The US lost spots in the juniors based on their less than expected performances (note-- expected performances, there is talent there), yet we are supposed to be making way for all of them right now. They gave Torgashev a chance, as they should've seeing how he won the free skate, and he didn't crack the top 20.

The skaters aren't robots, and longevity isn't as prevalent as some seem to think it is. Things change by the week in skating (see Mariah Bell as a prime example of that last year, almost everyone had most certainly written her off). Jason didn't have to come back if he didn't want to, but he did.

 

[Allskate]

Maybe this hopefully means suspension of the 4A. I worry what that will do to his body in the long run. As national champ and World medalist, he will get attention from serious choreographers (if he isn't already)

Based on his interview with NBC, I don't think that's going to happen. He's promoting himself as the quad god and is particularly proud of the quad axel. He seemed to be saying that he didn't want to play it safe with the axel and just do a triple.

He has been working on his presentation, but he focused more on his short than his long because of the problems he was having with the short. I've definitely seen a significant improvement in his short program. Now, it's the reverse and the last two competitions the long program has been weaker with the jump execution. Maybe he tightened up when he heard Cha's scores?

He has said before that he wants to work with a choreographer. According to him, he kind of just watches what he likes in other skaters and borrows it. He wants to develop his own style and work with a choreographer. Now that he is winning prize money and appearance and tour money, he should be able to afford one. I'm sure there are plenty of choreographers who would be happy to work with him and help him with music selection, choreography, and presentation.

 

[skateboy]

The skaters aren't robots, and longevity isn't as prevalent as some seem to think it is. Things change by the week in skating (see Mariah Bell as a prime example of that last year, almost everyone had most certainly written her off). Jason didn't have to come back if he didn't want to, but he did.

Something tells me that next year could be a different story....

 

[Allskate]

I just want him to be competitive. Bring back your your quad toe or salchow or both.

Okay, about Jason: while posters have dissed me about my feelings here, I will say this: I love Jason. (We even share the same birthday, so how could I not be pulling for him?)

The guy could be an Olympic champion. He's a beautiful skater with wonderful qualities. I want him to be on the Worlds podium. I've wanted that since he was in Juniors.

I just want him to be competitive. Bring back your your quad toe or salchow or both.

Okay, I'll shut up. Now shame me, I'm ready.

I think finishing fifth at Worlds is pretty darn competitive. I also don't think there's much of a quad to "bring back."

Having said that, Jason himself indicated in a recent interview that he likely may go back to working on quads during the off season. Personally, I was not happy to hear that. And it's not just because I think he is unlikely to successfully land the quad or that the attempts bring down his scores and are a distraction, though I believe all of those things. It's because he backed off the quads for injury/health reasons and because he has said that he will continue to compete only if his body feels good and he is healthy and happy competing (as well as doing other things). And I want him to be healthy, happy, and to compete. I'm not convinced that working on quads again won't affect how he feels physically and mentally.

Since when did they beg Tennell to come back, and how did they gamble on her? It wasn't even a debatable final Nationals result/World team selection. I think based on some posts this month that I was in an alternate dimension of watching Nationals and World Juniors. The US lost spots in the juniors based on their less than expected performances (note-- expected performances, there is talent there), yet we are supposed to be making way for all of them right now.

I agree with this. She recently said that, at this point, the mental part is harder for her than the physical part. It seems like a vicious circle. She has a bad skate because she is coming back from her injury and hasn't competed in a while. She has a bad result, and then that undermines her confidence and she has another bad result. She used to be quite confident and consistent. I'm not ruling out that she could return to that. And I like her programs better now than when she competed at the Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

Since when did they beg Tennell to come back, and how did they gamble on her? It wasn't even a debatable final Nationals result/World team selection. I think based on some posts this month that I was in an alternate dimension of watching Nationals and World Juniors. The US lost spots in the juniors based on their less than expected performances (note-- expected performances, there is talent there), yet we are supposed to be making way for all of them right now. They gave Torgashev a chance, as they should've seeing how he won the free skate, and he didn't crack the top 20.

The skaters aren't robots, and longevity isn't as prevalent as some seem to think it is. Things change by the week in skating (see Mariah Bell as a prime example of that last year, almost everyone had most certainly written her off). Jason didn't have to come back if he didn't want to, but he did.

Well, sure her selection was about as debatable as Brown's based on the scores/calling she got at Nats, but how many people, you included, were pointing out the obvious disregard the tech panel had for her URs?

Honestly, I find the notion that the USFS "begged" anyone to come back in either Men or Women pretty questionable, and that's really what I was responding to here. Jason is in the enviable position that very few skaters have these days of being able to pursue a different competitive path. I can appreciate his contribution as much as anyone else, but I don't believe the USFS begged him to compete at Nats (or Worlds) or that they'll do anything like that next season.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

She used to be quite confident and consistent. I'm not ruling out that she could return to that. And I like her programs better now than when she competed at the Olympics.

I say wait and see. Look at the physical condition of Osmond or our Loena. Who thought they`d come back and achieve the levels they have? Tennel may now be in a low point mentally but she has been a very strong competitor. If she got her 3Lz3T back in the off season it would do wonders for her confidence.

 

[olympic]

Based on his interview with NBC, I don't think that's going to happen. He's promoting himself as the quad god and is particularly proud of the quad axel. He seemed to be saying that he didn't want to play it safe with the axel and just do a triple.

He has been working on his presentation, but he focused more on his short than his long because of the problems he was having with the short. I've definitely seen a significant improvement in his short program. Now, it's the reverse and the last two competitions the long program has been weaker with the jump execution. Maybe he tightened up when he heard Cha's scores?

He has said before that he wants to work with a choreographer. According to him, he kind of just watches what he likes in other skaters and borrows it. He wants to develop his own style and work with a choreographer. Now that he is winning prize money and appearance and tour money, he should be able to afford one. I'm sure there are plenty of choreographers who would be happy to work with him and help him with music selection, choreography, and presentation.

Interesting. I did not know that Team Malinin had no choreographer

 

[barbk]

Based on his interview with NBC, I don't think that's going to happen. He's promoting himself as the quad god and is particularly proud of the quad axel. He seemed to be saying that he didn't want to play it safe with the axel and just do a triple.

He has been working on his presentation, but he focused more on his short than his long because of the problems he was having with the short. I've definitely seen a significant improvement in his short program. Now, it's the reverse and the last two competitions the long program has been weaker with the jump execution. Maybe he tightened up when he heard Cha's scores?

I've given a lot of presentations and taught many seminars. Most times, I'm in the groove, and they flow easily. Afterward, I'm full of energy. But then I hit the days when it is an uphill slog, and I get through it...but not as prettily. After those, I'm exhausted.

I wonder if it is also like that for athletes.

 

[Firedancer]

Jason has said he is competing because he wants to. I don’t believe USFS begged him. I don’t care if he ever tries another quad again. He is competitive with what he is doing now. As noted above, his score would have won him a medal last year. If any of the other US guys want a spot on the world team, let them beat him to earn it. Sadly, we have not seen any evidence that any of them are ready to do that.

As far as Ilia, I saw his NBC interview last night and he had the opposite tone of what he had in the press conference, where he seemed to have understood that he needs to work on other aspects of his skating. So I guess we will see what he chooses to do. He has worked with Shae-Lynn Bourne this season and I do think his short was better than the free. Maybe someone else could help him more.

 

[mtnskater]

Interesting. I did not know that Team Malinin had no choreographer

Didn’t Shae Lynn Bourne choreograph the short program and maybe the free too? At nationals he spoke about spending time with Shae to improve his short program performance, which paid off because that was his best all around short this season.

I consider Worlds a victory for him because he didn’t implode in one phase of the competition like he has all season.

 

[Trillian]

I think finishing fifth at Worlds is pretty darn competitive. I also don't think there's much of a quad to "bring back."

Jason’s competitiveness should be easy to gauge because at this point we know pretty much exactly how he’s going to skate and how the international judges are going to score it. He’s going to be close to clean with high levels most of the time because he doesn’t put content into his programs that he can’t do. So while he maintains his current skills, he can probably pull 260+ in regular events and 270+ in championship events. Those are good scores in the overall landscape of men’s skating right now. At some point the overall scoring trend among the other guys will go up, the other U.S. men will improve enough to overtake him, and/or Jason will reach a point where he can’t or doesn’t want to maintain that skill set. But at the moment, clearly his technical content is still enough to be competitive, or he … wouldn’t be so competitive.

Having said that, Jason himself indicated in a recent interview that he likely may go back to working on quads during the off season. Personally, I was not happy to hear that. And it's not just because I think he is unlikely to successfully land the quad or that the attempts bring down his scores and are a distraction, though I believe all of those things. It's because he backed off the quads for injury/health reasons and because he has said that he will continue to compete only if his body feels good and he is healthy and happy competing (as well as doing other things). And I want him to be healthy, happy, and to compete. I'm not convinced that working on quads again won't affect how he feels physically and mentally.

I’m not worried about it. I’d be (pleasantly) surprised if he actually gets a competition-ready quad, but I doubt he’ll do anything stupid in pursuit of one. It doesn’t seem like he’s measuring his success on those terms at this point.

 

[Sylvia]

As far as Ilia, I saw his NBC interview last night and he had the opposite tone of what he had in the press conference, where he seemed to have understood that he needs to work on other aspects of his skating. So I guess we will see what he chooses to do.

I didn't see Ilia's NBC interview but here is what he said in the presser afterwards (from the ISU's Press Conference Highlights document):

(on things he learned at this Worlds) A couple of things I noticed that could really change
the way I think about competition… one of them being that sometimes the practices don’t go how you want
them to go – it’s not a huge part in how you compete. It’s a beneficial thing to have a good practice so that
you’re in a good mindset to compete. But I think it really comes down to how you’re feeling at that exact
moment before you get on the ice. Another thing is I’ve noticed that it’s really hard to go for a lot of risks but
sometimes you get a really good rewards, but I think that maybe sometimes it’s okay to lower the risks and
go for a lot cleaner skate. I think that will be beneficial to do next season is to lower the standards a bit.
(on the relationship among fellow competitors) As both of them said, we’re all friends and we’re not really
competing against each other but competing against ourselves. If we’re out of competition, we have good
interactions (and despite the language barrier) we still communicate very well and we always have fun
times, we’re always happy and supporting each other. I think these are some of the great things about
figure skating and that’s what makes this sport a beauty. (on his quad Axel and his current program
component scores) With the quad Axel, I’m really honored that I was able to get the 12.86 points here. I’m
very honored that the judges gave me such a score; it means so much to me. You have to take a lot of
risks and sometimes you look back at those and you think that maybe there’s no need to go for a lot of risk
and you have to try to stay clean. After doing a lot of these hard difficult jumps it’s really hard to try to
perform for the audience. Some people might enjoy jumping and, to me, it’s one of the things I enjoy. But I
also like to perform to the audience so I think next season I would like to focus on the performing side
because I think the audience really enjoys the performance.

 

[Rukia]

He just came top 5 at Worlds, only three points lower than Ilia and his squillion quads, 18 or so places above the other US man Torgashev, and you're already whining and moaning about the lack of quad? It hasn't even been 24 hours, for fcuk's sake! Let us at least enjoy the gift he gave us all last night!

Jason's score last night was good enough for a bronze at Worlds last year (would have been higher than Zhou's by three points), fourth in 2021, fourth in 2019 (Zhou's score would have beaten him by just one point), and silver in 2018.

Jason is competitive, whether you like it or not.

And thank goodness he was there, because if the US had been relying on Torgashev to help Malinin get the three spots, well, they'd have two.

USFS should be on their knees begging Jason to continue.

You don't have to pick on Torgy just for Jason's sake you know. There's no way Torgy was prepared in any way to peak at worlds. His season got extended way past what he had probably ever thought. And anyway the US had 3 spots so Camden likely would have gone and then you could have blamed him too for whatever happened. Also sometimes having 2 spots isn't the worst thing in the world anyway.

I love Jason, I'm glad he got to go, I think he's fabulous. No one should be begging him to do anything. He should compete because he loves it. If the US ends up with less spots, so be it. It's not the end of the world.

 

[olympic]

So, I watched the Men finally. I agree with the judging which is amazing because I always seem to have an issue with it.

Ilia's 2 jumping passes after the 4A were pretty slipshod and Cha had the performance of his life. Nevertheless, if he would've landed those 2 jumps properly in a backwards position, he probably would've claimed Silver. If he had also fully rotated the 4Z in the 2nd half, he would've been dangerously close to Shoma.

 

[sundayspirals]

Didn’t Shae Lynn Bourne choreograph the short program and maybe the free too? At nationals he spoke about spending time with Shae to improve his short program performance, which paid off because that was his best all around short this season.

I consider Worlds a victory for him because he didn’t implode in one phase of the competition like he has all season.

I think Juris Razgulajevs (part of Carol Lane's team and coaches Piper and Paul) choreographed his free.

 

[tony]

Well, sure her selection was about as debatable as Brown's based on the scores/calling she got at Nats, but how many people, you included, were pointing out the obvious disregard the tech panel had for her URs?

Why come down on Tennell or anyone really when the next they had in line either had no Lutz and often no flip (Andrews), or a skater in Thorngren who already has plenty of underrotations as-is? Or maybe you felt that Josephine Lee should've been in contention for a spot (ETA- well she's not old enough anyways)? Well, we saw how World Juniors worked out there. Gracie Gold perhaps? My point is, I don't get how it would've ended up debatable anyways and I don't know why you are suggesting it could've been with different judging. The US doesn't have a ton of squeaky-clean technicians knocking on the door.

When the judges looked the other way last season on Liu (and I guess everyone hoped for generous international panels), all seemed to be fine because she was the one hope.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Since when did they beg Tennell to come back, and how did they gamble on her? It wasn't even a debatable final Nationals result/World team selection.

I know, I am like who are all these US women skaters people want to be there at this world’s to bring home three spots for next season? I’m like who are these skaters?